Steins;Gate 0 - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Pellissier]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Steins;Gate 0, Episode 19.

Thread Guidelines

• Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum.
• Spoilers or hints about future events must not be posted in this thread.
  If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message, or seek out a more appropriate thread.
• Discuss your expectations of the episode if it has not aired yet.
• Be polite to your fellow forum members.
• Please try to keep the discussion on-topic.
• Character bashing is not on-topic and will not be tolerated.
• Do not post multiple times in a row. Please edit your existing post if you wish to add additional thoughts.

Episode Thread Spoiler Policy

• Any comment that discloses events, characters, plot or other information before it is revealed in the anime is expressly forbidden whether or not it is behind spoiler tags.
  Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
  Please consult the AnimeSuki Spoiler Policy for more information.
• Adding a Spoiler tag:
  

  Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms. Make sure that you include a useful title!

• Please use the Report button if you see any inappropriate spoilers:
  

  Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar. Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators locate and deal with problems quickly.

• Posting inappropriate spoilers may result in a ban.
  Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
  The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.

[FlareKnight]

Ok, now the ball is rolling. He hasn't really reverted to the mad scientist of old, but hey he's finally gotten moving. Still kind of hilarious the main goal is just to get Episode 23 of the original show to unfold as normal. But now the battle begins to make it happen.

Sadly for Okabe it is going to take some time to figure out what he can reliably change and what is more stubborn. But at least he's ready to get going. There isn't any other option he can fall back on now. Figure it out or WW3.

[4th Dimension]

The ball is rolling, but it feels it's almost rolling too quickly. Them finishing the time leap machine is KINDA fine, although doing it from just couple of Okabe's remarks is a bit much (and the compression bit is still silly) but then Daru was able to both hack into STERN AND free Amadeus and things start being streched. If they had set it up that he was doing so before this...maybe they did but I don't remember him noodling much with Amadeus before.

So the Professor was ALREADY on the rooftop back then? So what? He was waiting for Okabe to leave or something? And we see in this episode that those solders deploy from the helicopters apparently. Some REALLY sneaky helicopters those. Also I wonder what prompted Kagari not to kill Hayes (other motorcycle getup woman) this time? Leskin moving up the operation for reasons?
Also how the F did Okabe get out of there this time? Last time it KIIINDA made sense in that DARPA and STRATFOR were in an open gunship fight and had better thing to do, and professor was down and therefore unable to order them to grab all people familiar with time travel.
But this time there is no gunfight, or are we supposed to think that DURPA still swoops in even after STRATFOR destroys the time machine? And Leskin is injured in that fight?
Because Okabe REALLY shouldn't have been able to get off that roof. He really shouldn't be "just another civilian".

[Wandering Soul]

He hasn't gone back to being a mad scientist, but Okabe is finally taking action.

So Reyes was just relaxing on the roof last time and decided not to do anything the first time? Also how did Okabe get off the roof so easily?

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

So Reyes was just relaxing on the roof last time and decided not to do anything the first time? Also how did Okabe get off the roof so easily?

Originally Kagari offs her. I quickly stepped through the last two episodes just to see how the F is Professor allready there, and in Episode 17 we get a glimpse (18:09) of one motorcycle helmeted person standing over another. So presumably Kagari offed the competition/the spy on Doctor's orders.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

So the Professor was ALREADY on the rooftop back then? So what? He was waiting for Okabe to leave or something? And we see in this episode that those solders deploy from the helicopters apparently. Some REALLY sneaky helicopters those. Also I wonder what prompted Kagari not to kill Hayes (other motorcycle getup woman) this time? Leskin moving up the operation for reasons?
Also how the F did Okabe get out of there this time? Last time it KIIINDA made sense in that DARPA and STRATFOR were in an open gunship fight and had better thing to do, and professor was down and therefore unable to order them to grab all people familiar with time travel.
But this time there is no gunfight, or are we supposed to think that DURPA still swoops in even after STRATFOR destroys the time machine? And Leskin is injured in that fight?
Because Okabe REALLY shouldn't have been able to get off that roof. He really shouldn't be "just another civilian".

Okabe hypothesized the time machine being destroyed is a convergence point. This is most likely right. It's the same as the time with Mayuri. Every time he tries to do something different, the world will change things up so the result will be the same. Neither Leskinen, Reyes, nor Kagari were on the rooftop at this time last time.

Okabe managed to escape for the same reasons he managed to escape from the Rounders hundreds of times in Steins;Gate.

Looks like we won't get a repeat of Steins;Gate, given the after credit scene. Looks like the time leap machine malfunctioned this time. No sure what the hell will happen to Okabe, and we won't find out for another two weeks as episode 20 has been delayed.

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Okabe hypothesized the time machine being destroyed is a convergence point. This is most likely right. It's the same as the time with Mayuri. Every time he tries to do something different, the world will change things up so the result will be the same. Neither Leskinen, Reyes, nor Kagari were on the rooftop at this time last time.

Yeah. Hence why I rewatched that part. And it doesn't seem they are THAT much early. It all depends on how much if at all early Okabe arrived at the Radio building. He doesn't seem to have. In the normal course of events once he arrives, he argues with them a bit, gets grazed, bandaged and then as Suzuha is walking back NINJA HELICOPTER DROP happens. So they are early like 15 minutes or something.
Still I wonder what made the professor move up the plan. Because of that Hayes SOMEHOW gets on the roof.

Originally Posted by Kanon

Okabe managed to escape for the same reasons he managed to escape from the Rounders hundreds of times in Steins;Gate.

Ehh, there most of the time he wasn't running from them. IN fact I'd say that the most of the Mayushi's deaths were from NON Rounder reasons. Her just dying because it's a fixed point or something.
Back then Hyouin getting away was kinda more reasonable since the attacks happen with the time leap machine there, and him being ale to get away in the confusion.
Here Leskin seemed like he had control of the situation, and had noone to stop STRATFOR from nabbing him. He certainly would have needed to go PAST the professor and Okarin very much should be a person of interest. Him and his crew actually. So them being able to go on working for day or so on a time machine unmolested is a bit maybe much...

Originally Posted by Kanon

Looks like we won't get a repeat of Steins;Gate, given the after credit scene. Looks like the time leap machine malfunctioned this time. No sure what the hell will happen to Okabe, and we won't find out for another two weeks as episode 20 has been delayed.

Well, looks to me like he got back, but yeah something definitely broke. Wonder what. Any damage down stream to the time machine really shouldn't affect it's state up stream.
I wonder if Leskin maybe not getting injured might affect what happens with Amadeus?
But given that Okabe got grazed somehow again...

[GDB]

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

Still I wonder what made the professor move up the plan. Because of that Hayes SOMEHOW gets on the roof.

Okabe telling Daru and Maho to track down Amadeus, most likely. Remember that he did something to Amadeus shortly before the plan went into motion. If he suddenly lost access to her early, he likely thought someone was on to him and stepped up the plan.

Okabe likely would've figured that out given enough tries, which I'm guessing is the meta reason for breaking his leap this time.

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

Back then Hyouin getting away was kinda more reasonable since the attacks happen with the time leap machine there, and him being ale to get away in the confusion.

There were plenty of times when Mayuri was killed far away from the lab by the Rounders (on the street when hit by the car, in the car when they just walked up and popped her in the head, etc). They always just let him run despite knowing what he had in the lab.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by GDB

There were plenty of times when Mayuri was killed far away from the lab by the Rounders (on the street when hit by the car, in the car when they just walked up and popped her in the head, etc). They always just let him run despite knowing what he had in the lab.

I also remember at least one time where he was taken into a car by them after they killed Mayuri. He managed to escape with a headbutt and go back to the lab (which nobody ever watched for some reason). There were also other times he had to face them for one reason or another, and he always escaped just fine. And it's not like they let him escape intentionally, since he was one of their targets.

This is where you have to suspend your disbelief.

Regarding why the time leaping "broke", I think it's because it would have been pointless to show us further tries. The end result would have always been the same regardless of what he did if the time machine getting destroyed really is a convergence point. And I'm pretty sure it is. It was hinted that Mayuri and Suzuha are alive since they didn't find any bodies, so the solution to getting them back lies elsewhere. No clue where, though.

[4th Dimension]

Yeah. It could just be symbolism of Okabe breaking and having to accept time leap machine can't solve this one given the time they have... allthough he did leap EARLIER this time?

[Jaden]

The time leap machine relies on the wireless cellular network, which is currently being jammed. So I guess there is now a limit to how far Okabe can go back? Depends on how long exactly that jamming goes on, but I assume that's the case. Of course, they could use D-Mail, but from what we've seen, there's no way the Okabe of the previous year would be swayed by that - and further back is the alpha/beta divide.

So yeah, he's completely screwed IF the failure of "operation Arclight" is actually an unavoidable event. The next thing I would try is going with Suzuha in the time machine.

[GDB]

The 48 hour limit is just inherent in the Time Leap Machine's design. They'd need far more time to fine tune it to purposely change that. It has nothing to do with a jammed signal.

The D-Mail would send him back to the Alpha timeline regardless of how far back it was sent, because that's what triggers the change to the Alpha timeline.

And him going in the time machine changes nothing. If Mayuri can't do it, he can't. The reason it fails is it gets blown up/off course, not that the wrong people are in it.

[Haak]

It's a damn shame that it took 19 episodes for Season 2 to get to the same point that it took 13 episodes to do for Season 1 (and whilst setting up a lot more than Season 2 needed to). I'm glad that we're finally here but I feel like this story wasted a lot of time getting to this point.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by GDB

The 48 hour limit is just inherent in the Time Leap Machine's design. They'd need far more time to fine tune it to purposely change that. It has nothing to do with a jammed signal.

But it took them less than 48 hours to complete the machine, right? So you could theoretically keep going back 48 hours, make the machine in <48 hours, go back 48 hours, make another machine in <48 hours, and repeat until you're as far back as you need to be.

However, if the signal jamming time is longer than (48h-[optimized machine completion time]), it creates a barrier that Okabe can't go beyond using this trick. That was my thinking, anyway. That means it's too late for him to go peek at Kurisu's laptop, or save Kagari, or do other stuff that might be pretty useful...

And him going in the time machine changes nothing. If Mayuri can't do it, he can't. The reason it fails is it gets blown up/off course, not that the wrong people are in it.

At the very least, the time machine can't get blown up if Okabe gets on it, since he is immortal in this time period of this worldline.. So I thought it'd be interesting to try and abuse that god mode. He does it a little bit when he tackles Terminator Kagari, but why not take it to the limit?

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Jaden

At the very least, the time machine can't get blown up if Okabe gets on it, since he is immortal in this time period of this worldline.. So I thought it'd be interesting to try and abuse that god mode. He does it a little bit when he tackles Terminator Kagari, but why not take it to the limit?

He probably wouldn't be able to get into the machine in the first place, assuming the time machine getting destroyed is indeed a convergence point.

[AC-Phoenix]

Okabe worries too much about those two. If he would activate his brain he'd see that there is no way they are dead.
The Beta lines future needs Mayuri to adopt Kagari, if that doesn't happen, Okabe's reader should activate and Kagari would either vanish completely or would suddenly Ruka's, Okabes or god knows whose adopted daughter. Otherwise you'd have a time paradox.

Kinda sad that Okabe doesn't realize that himself.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Okabe worries too much about those two. If he would activate his brain he'd see that there is no way they are dead.
The Beta lines future needs Mayuri to adopt Kagari, if that doesn't happen, Okabe's reader should activate and Kagari would either vanish completely or would suddenly Ruka's, Okabes or god knows whose adopted daughter. Otherwise you'd have a time paradox.

Kinda sad that Okabe doesn't realize that himself.

I'm not sure it was ever explained how the time machine works, but I always assumed the world line switched from a worldline where Suzuha never went back in time to one where she did when she used it. The future Suzuha came from doesn't exist anymore. This is supported by Daru's d-mail where he stated he isn't the father she knew. The again, there is Suzuha disappearing at the end of Steins;Gate once her mission is complete which contradicts that.

So yeah, basically, I'm confused.