Maria-sama ga Miteru 4th - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[4Tran]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Maria-sama ga Miteru 4th, Episode 11.

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[cynicalicious]

Great job of adapting the second half of the novel to a 22-minute slot. They cut out a ton of stuff (obviously) and moved some things around, but overall very well done.

Spoiler for Ep11:

So the cat's out of the bag. Yes, Touko is adopted. And you can finally see the inner turmoil that Touko has been holding back the whole time start to spill out. This season's "Rainy Blue," Touko-style, I guess.

Suguru nailed it pretty much on the head-- Touko both loves and fears Yumi at the same time. (Gotta love his outfit... no, you don't look like a suspicious person at all...) Of course I love how she romanticizes the way Yumi was being pursued by the other students during last year's Valentine's Day treasure hunt... Yumi wasn't so thrilled about it at the time, lol.

Also, you can tell *just* how protective Suguru is of his little cousin. It was nice to see him get furious when he realized that those mean and nasty girls from Vacation of the Lambs had also tormented Touko over being adopted. (Which is why she had canceled her trip to Canada-- to try to protect Yumi, because she had been a victim of them before.) She calls him onii-sama for a reason, she's like a little sister to him, and he's like a big brother to her.

And when Touko suddenly misunderstands Yumi and lashes out at her, we see Yumi 3.0 react in a very mature way. Good job, Yumi.

Noriko saves the day. Awww...

Next week should be fun. I hope they don't cut out the really funny stuff... but then again, the whole planning of the Valentine's Day treasure hunt story is the opening of the series, and the cute scene between Mami and Hidemi got dumped into the preview for next week's episode. Ah well. Mami truly is the demon of the Newspaper Club.

[Eleutheria]

That was a GREAT episode! It's probably the first episode of Maria-sama (from the beginning) that really tugged at my heartstrings (and I'm a heartless b*stard).

Yumi's growth as a character is staggering, although I understand that in the novels they dragged it out for quite a few volumes. The way she handled Touko this episode was very mature and effective. I'd hoped that the hand that reached out to Touko at the end was Yumi, but I guess they have to stretch things out just a bit more.

Alas, next episode doesn't appear to be the pair doing the rosario, so we still have a couple more weeks to wait. The preview appeared to be yet another "event" filler, although I suppose you would have Touko find the card at the end?

Lastly, I laughed when Suguru said he didn't want to stand out. Not bloody likely, especially when loitering outside a girls' school.

Spoiler for Conversation:

The Suguru-Touko car conversation was very well written.

Obviously Suguru has admitted to liking Yumi, but Touko's mood has made her so dense that nothing penetrates

Then there was the bit where Yumi bumps into Touko and goes "well great let's walk to the station" and immediately turns around and starts walking. Oh, she's grown up and learned some new tricks...

[Seiryuu]

So the truth comes out here.

Spoiler:

Funny, I think I took the possibility of adoption out of my Christmas ep post. Originally I'd been thinking that she was either illegitimate, or she was adopted, since both cases would make her feel like an outsider, an intruder taken in out of charity whose best efforts always come up short because, no matter how perfect a lady she is, this fact of her past will not change. Bastards often show this sort of inner turmoil, but so do adopted children. Apparently I was right at least in terms of her conflict. She fears that her entire life, all the love and joy she'd been given was merely a matter of charity, or an attempt to replace something irreplaceable. She desperately wants to show that she's worthy to call herself her parents' daughter, but no matter what this is something she feels she can't be. Sometimes she may wish she'd given up on trying to be the perfect daughter and just accepted the love she was given, but just like drawing a fun map to please herself instead of a "perfect" map, this was beyond her.

It looks like I was right about a few things, such as the fact that Touko's behavior toward Yumi during the OVAs, warning her and trying to protect her from the harsh way some people would view her.
In a way, I can't help but wonder whether Touko originally started acting because she loved it, or because she felt like her entire life she'd been merely playing a role.

[mintyfresh]

As to be expected, this turned out to be a great episode. I can't stop rewatching it.

Spoiler:

Especially Touko's flashback to last year's Card Hunt. Sure looks different from how I remember it. ( ¯3¯)

In the end, the episode was something of a mixture of the two things I expected -- just about half was taken from a third person perspective, while the rest was from Touko's POV.
I'd sort of wished that the episode had spent a little more time on the latter actually, like it did with Ibara no Mori in the first season. It would have been nice for everyone to hear the interesting things going on in Touko's mind while she was in the Drama Club room, or while she was with Yumi. Granted, her long soliloquy during the second time she was counting to 100 just about made up for everything else.

Also, I have to admit that I found it a little dispiriting to read the last episode's thread and see so many people picking up on the clues that Touko was adopted. When I learned the truth while reading Anata wo Sagashi ni (which I for whatever reason read before Ookina Tobira, Chiisana Kagi), I was floored.
I suppose the preview for the last ep was really what laid the hints on thick...

As for the episode itself, the animation team really worked hard on this one. Though speaking of working hard, Rie Kugimiya was AMAZING in this episode. After hearing her in so many other roles very much unlike this one, it's certainly something to hear her put so much emotion into her performance.
And was that Miyuki Sawashiro playing the Drama Club pres? Strangely, the anime's imagination of her wasn't far from my own...

Anyhow, I'm looking forward to seeing what others' opinions on this ep will be. Personally, there were a few times where I thought things were being a tad bit rushed, but I'm not sure if that's because I knew what was being skipped, or because I was just anxious for things to get to a certain point in the episode.

[cynicalicious]

Originally Posted by mintyfresh

Spoiler:

Also, I have to admit that I found it a little dispiriting to read the last episode's thread and see so many people picking up on the clues that Touko was adopted. When I learned the truth while reading Anata wo Sagashi ni (which I for whatever reason read before Ookina Tobira, Chiisana Kagi), I was floored.
I suppose the preview for the last ep was really what laid the hints on thick...

Spoiler:

Yeah, if you had read Ookina Tobira first, you wouldn't have been floored... or rather, you would have been floored earlier.

It's true that they skipped a ton of Touko's inner monologue, but I'm still impressed with the job they did, given the constraints they're working under. Then again, the books will dwell on things like how first years decorate their shoe lockers, and how second and third years don't bother with it. I'm so glad I started reading them. It was slow going at first, but now I can read them at a decent pace.

It's two different series, really. The books are one whole world full of complex details, and the anime just hits the highlights. That's all it can do without bogging down. (And without going nuts on the budget.) The only shame is that they're plowing through so many books so fast this time through. They're skipping a lot of stories they might not have skipped before just to focus on this one plotline.

I like Yumi, don't get me wrong, she's one of my favorite characters, I just kind of miss Yoshino and Shimako... and I doubt we'll get any of their stories this time through, which is a shame.

One thing I was relieved to see (or rather not see) this week-- no Pizza Hut stuff.

[sa547]

After watching this...

Spoiler for DON'T OPEN THIS UNTIL YOU FINISH THIS EPISODE:

This is the best damn feel like in Touko's shoes (and an episode focused mostly on her): an episode so powerful that for some the emotions and the dilemmas she feels needs no translation. Reminds me so much of Sense and Sensibility.

The situation is different this time: Yumi's more remarkably restrained compared to previous episodes, even if confronted by Touko's anger. As for another confrontation, I don't know what Sachiko was saying to Touko but it seems obvious that she finally said the awful truth that left her stunned and then crying, everything come crashing back in. Boom!

And hey, with the getup he's wearing, is Suguru trying to get an audition at neighboring GetBackers? Nevertheless he never fails to smoke his Maserati Quattroporte.

*Now plays Pearl Jam's "Daughter"*



Strangely, March 14 is White Day.

[Lesca]

Good episode, though I'm probably not the biggest Touko fan, I did like her in the OVA's and a few episodes so far, some I haven't but I felt for her in this one.

Spoiler for Ep 11:

Everyone handles being adopted differently, some take it better than others, so can see why she hasn't found it easy. Does it say in the episode what age she was adopted at?
Was the girl with short black hair, her drama club president or something? they seemed quite close.
Yumi's jump from Touko's view, from the last card hunt reminded me of the girl who leapt through time and the scene between her and Yumi by the statue, for a minute Yumi just reminded me of Sachiko so much. Noriko proved again to be one of my favourite characters when she was comforting Touko, after her breakdown.

really looking forward to the next episode.

[cynicalicious]

Spoiler for Ep 11 stuff...:

Okay, so at the statue of Maria-sama, Yumi makes the comment that she's been thinking about Touko's parents, her relationship to them, her childhood-- and then Touko thinks that Yumi knows that Touko is adopted, and is trying to either pity her or slight her, and Touko starts seeing red and goes all ballistic. Yumi's just wondering what made Touko run away from home, but she realizes that Touko has stopped listening.

So when Touko storms into the classroom to talk to Sachiko, she thinks that Sachiko told Yumi that Touko was adopted.

But what Sachiko tells Touko is that she never knew that Touko was adopted-- it was news to her. Since Sachiko is only 2 years older than Touko, it reinforces the assumption that Touko was adopted at a *very* early age.

Sachiko tells Touko that there's no way that Yumi could know that Touko was adopted. Sachiko knows this because she's Yumi's older sister. Touko realizes that Suguru wouldn't tell Yumi and not tell Touko that he told Yumi. So she realizes that there's no way Yumi could know she was adopted.

And that's when Touko realizes that the misunderstanding is all her fault, and it brings her to her knees. (Nicely animated, BTW. Loved the music, too.)

They make Sachiko look kind of mean in the anime because she walks off looking angry, leaving Touko on all fours and crying, but remember that Sachiko said before that this was something she couldn't get involved in-- it was between Yumi and Touko. More Sachiko "tough love."

[dahl_moon]

Oh my goodness, it was sooo hard not to let out any spoilers that I just had to shut up for the last couple of episodes.

Spoiler:

Rainly Blue season two; nothing describes this episode better than that. Theme here again is misunderstanding, keyword someone (lowly) like me. I'm wondering if this will turn out to be a Chinensis tradition.

There are so many memorable moments in this episode but I'll just pick two. The first one is when Yumi tells Touko to count to 100. Athough Touko tries hard to show that she has an upper hand to Yumi, how she obediently starts counting betrays just how much Touko looks up on Yumi and respects her. Yumi really out shines as an Onee-sama here.

Of course the second counting to 100. This time though, Touko "realizes" just how much she's pushed her close ones away from herself, just how lonely she's become. But all that's in her mind. What's she's really dreading, is physically realizing how lonely she's really become when she opens her eyes.

And, at that moment, that very moment before Touko dropping into dispair, appears Noriko. Touko would have just "broke" if Noriko had appeared even a few moments later. We would also have headed for "bad end" if someone else appeared. Not Yumi, nor other Yamayuri-kai members. Maybe Kanako, I'm not sure. This is also the moment Noriko is elevated from "Noriko-san" to "Noriko." The tears just started flowing..

I've noticed how important decision it was for Yumi not to ask Kashiwagi on "why" Touko ran away from home. Everything just might have fallen apart if she knew beforehand that Touko was adopted.

My most favorite episode ever. Probably even more so than the original Rainly Blue since this time I've read the novels beforehand. Extra props to Kugimiya Rie.

EDIT: The Drama Club president deserves an honourable mention here. She also understands Touko to a deep extent, recognizes that Touko repeatedly gets hurt from getting close to Yumi (even though they're mostly self-inflicted). She would've made a wonderful Onee-sama, too.

[mintyfresh]

Originally Posted by cynicalicious

I like Yumi, don't get me wrong, she's one of my favorite characters, I just kind of miss Yoshino and Shimako... and I doubt we'll get any of their stories this time through, which is a shame.

Heh, even though I like both Yumi and Touko very much, I agree with you. Also, that reminds of another point I thought of while wathing this week's ep.
If this season really will be 13 episodes, then they'll likely take up the next two episodes covering Kriss Kross (which we know already to be true) and then close with Anata wo Sagashi ni.

And I must say, I'm a little surprised they didn't stop at a Pizza Hut as well.

[inisipis]

A very emotional episode, that very nicely done.

Spoiler for Eps. 11:

Lets see if i get this right. Touko knows she is adopted, but her father doesn't want her to thinks different about it. Touko went to the drama club. i guess wishing to resign. The pres. of the Drama club wants to make Touko her little sister, but understands that Touko has feelings for Yumi.
Suguru fetches Touko in a rather sinister clothes so that they can talk. Suguru wants to know from Touko what happened at Christmas, when Sachiko hinted about this at the last episode.We found out that Touko has admired Yumi since she say last Valentines contest. (I always knew she likes Yumi at the getgo, that's why she was totally scolded at Yumi when she doesnt seems to care about Sachiko at season two, were she said she was disappointed at Yumi)
Suguru realizes that the other rich brats were also mean to Touko as well to Yumi. Suguru turn really frightening and is very protective to those he cared about. (he did Bitch-slapped all the members of the Detective club that abducts Yumi.)
She meet up with Yumi. they talked for a while, and i guess they had a misunderstanding and Touko becomes Angry. Yumi doesn't bite it and calmly walks away.
Touko i guess confronts Sachiko on if she tells Yumi she was adopted. Sachiko tells Touko she's mistaken. Touko finally realizes this and begs for forgiveness. Sachiko tells her to ask Yumi's forgiveness because she Hurt Yumi's feelings. Touko cries alone blames herself on distancing herself from people who cares for her.
Noriko came and consoles Touko. Noriko probably says to herself that Touko finally removes her Mask.

Very good Drama

[ladholyman]

The animation in this episode is godly. It's like Studio Deen and Pizza Hut suddenly got a large influx of cash.

[Shiroth]

Spoiler for Episode 11:

Personally that was the best episode from this series upto now. Only focusing on Touko does help --- she's one of my favorite characters, and i've been waiting for an episode like this. Basically (by accident) we find out that she's not the real child of the parents she's with. There's still a bit more to learn regarding her backstory, though we're getting there.

Animation was top notch in this episode, especially for the facial expression of Touko and Yumi during their confrontation scene. There were some great ott scenes like the car drive and dramatic wind towards the end.

Few more random notes --- Noriko to the rescue, and hello Sawashiro Miyuki-senpai. Small role, though she was lovely.

[Anh_Minh]

Spoiler:

Seeing Touko hit rock-bottom was unexpectedly pleasant. Not because I bear her any ill will, but because now it feels like she can finally go up again. Anyway, well done, Noriko. Nice save.

Question: why would the three ojou know, but not Sachiko?

Re: next ep: I guess we'll see Touko try hard for Yumi's card, as a way to get out of her downward spiral. And maybe a kind of apology. The start of one, anyway.

[Shigan]

Best episode this far, and the drama club president do deserve an honorary mention. It's nice to see that there are other people who care and understand Touko too.

[Molenir]

What an amazing episode. Probably the best of the season. I really like Touko, have since Season 3, when she warned Yumi about the girls in episode 1. Finally understanding what she was going through, all the pain and hurt she was feeling. Even though most of it was self inflicted. Her realizing that everything with Yumi, the one she admired so much, was just her own misunderstanding. Seeing Yumi act so mature and graceful, in the face of anger as Touko lashed out at her again. Just so amazing. I think this makes my top 5 favorite Maria-sama episodes.

Spoiler:

Question: why would the three ojou know, but not Sachiko?

This is just my guess here, but I would think it has to do with the social circles the families are involved in. After the death of their child, adopting another one is going to be news. However Sachiko's family is very close with the Matsudeira's, and they're not going to just gossip about things like this. Unlike those other families. The other girls Sachiko's age probably had trouble gossiping about things like this in front of Sachiko. Her demeanor being very forbidding. Hence the reason the other girls would know, while Sachiko didn't.

[Master Chibi]

Definitely the best episode of the seasons thus far, I wanted to reach in there and hug Touko soooo bad.

D:

[Nochgo]

Wow, what a powerful episode, and indeed the best episode of the season so far. The episode focuses on Touko (about time) and it does so well in depicting Touko's situation to the audience. This is one of those 'a picture is worth a million word' moments for me. I was gripped during the scene between Suguru and Touko. Seeing Suguru's anger in his face, you can really see and appreciate his care for Touko. At the realization of Touko's bitter past, I again found myself angry at those haughty girls as I had during the OVA, while sympathizing for Touko.

And during the confrontation between Yumi and Touko, you can really see how much more tolerent and mature Yumi as become in continuation from the last episode. Its was really something see, Yumi keeping her calm and telling Touko to stay behind and count to 100, and Touko obidiently do so and in the end finding herself alone. It was such a nice imagery to what we have been told just minutes ago by Suguru, how Touko will be alone if she keeps on running away.

And of course, the last scene, where Touko finally realize that Yumi hadn't known anything all along was done very effectively, showing her despair and how much she regret her actions. Of course, Sachiko did her role ever so perfectly in conveying this information to Touko. Just watching Touko count to hundred again, was very painful to see, and I teared up as well, but it was also nice to see; we finally get to see Touko's real, true emotions. And, we had Noriko to count on (I kinda forgot that though...), and it was a relief that Touko didn't end up alone finishing counting to a hundred.

And notable mention to Suguru's attire; I wonder if that is his interrogation outfit. He looks waaaay too suspicious

Originally Posted by ladholyman

The animation in this episode is godly. It's like Studio Deen and Pizza Hut suddenly got a large influx of cash.

Maybe they were saving up for this episode

[textgirl]

well my mom always told me never burn your brideges and i see why though touko she burned everyone around her and she had to pay for it by being alone just thank god noriko was there for her man this was such a powerful episode i was so moved with it i was like in shock on how the way yumi told her to count to 100 and i think touko got wat she deserved when it came to sa-chan and yumi it like they both want touko to know that they came about her but they are not going to put up with her crap ether surguru told touko the right thing and he has been such a wonderful help in this season at first i was disappionted about last week but seeing this episode opened my eyes to how great and powerful this show can be well great episode i cant wait to see hpw it ends