AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Gundam

Notices

View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans - Episode 39 Rating
Perfect 10 4 20.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 5 25.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 4 20.00%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 35.00%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2017-01-18, 06:33   Link #121
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
They have no relation with Nobliss though. And to effectively "rule" Mars they will need connections. Actually it would be better if Tekkadan is not completely dependent on Gjalahorn good will and second backer should give them more freedom than they would have if they were affiliated with either one.
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-18, 10:09   Link #122
Irenesharda
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Chicago
Perhaps its time to change the relationship rather than get rid of it. Considering how McGillis' deal gives them total control over Mars Gjallarhorn branch to do with what they will, I'm guessing they will basically have autonomy there but still maintain an alliance with Inner sphere Gjallarhorn that's under McGillis.
They could do the same with Teiwaz. Change from being a subsidiary under McMurdo, and instead partner with him as an equal? It would be hard, but it is doable.
__________________
"Someone who cannot forgive lies or secrets, will never trust another."

- Major Kyosuke Hyobu

Last edited by Irenesharda; 2017-01-18 at 10:20.
Irenesharda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-18, 10:18   Link #123
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
We really shouldn't forget scale of Teiwaz. Naze has huge transport network with 50 000 of employees and he is "just" (if one of biggest) subsidiaries. It think even with whole Mars under Tekkadan it wouldn't be enough for equality. Orga replacing Jasley as McMurdo's right hand and becoming effectively second in command sound quite plasauble though.

Well that assume Naze dies. If he somehow survived, he would be one rise to n.2 instead which might be even better for Tekkies in some aspects.

Eitherway if things on Mars go well, McMurdo will want keep good relationship with them. He is definitely boss who knows when offer carrot rather than stick.
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-18, 10:25   Link #124
Irenesharda
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Chicago
Jasley's dead. No character like him gets away from karma for long in a Gundam series. It's a matter of when rather than if.

Orga being number 2? Perhaps, it really depends on where they want to go from here and how independent they want to make Tekkadan. Is it feasible for them to be on their own now? I think so. I think Naze could have been too if he really wanted to, but he's too laid back for that. That IS one think that Orga does better than Naze, and that's have a drive as well as ambition. Naze is more of a "que sera sera" guy.
__________________
"Someone who cannot forgive lies or secrets, will never trust another."

- Major Kyosuke Hyobu
Irenesharda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-18, 10:36   Link #125
tdx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaddix View Post
Yeah they kinda do need to cut ties. Cant Be King of Mars when a mobster is giving you orders.
Precisely. Or when the mafia is siphoning away profits from the already weak economy to line their pockets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
They have no relation with Nobliss though. And to effectively "rule" Mars they will need connections. Actually it would be better if Tekkadan is not completely dependent on Gjalahorn good will and second backer should give them more freedom than they would have if they were affiliated with either one.
Connections are what McGillis and Isurugi were effectively building up for them a few eps ago, tightly packing Orga's schedule with all those meet'n'greet events with all the big wigs of Mars.

And a guy that tried to kill you for profit and will try to again at the drop of a hat if he doesn't like you trying to bring peace and end conflicts which he profits from is probably more dangerous as a so called backer than an openly hostile enemy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
Perhaps its time to change the relationship rather than get rid of it. Considering how McGillis' deal gives them total control over Mars Gjallarhorn branch to do with what they will, I'm guessing they will basically have autonomy there but still maintain an alliance with Inner sphere Gjallarhorn that's under McGillis.
They could do the same with Teiwaz. Change from being a subsidiary under McMurdo, and instead partner with him as an equal? It would be hard, but it is doable.
I'm starting to think that it will depend on what happens to Barriston in particular and Teiwaz in general. It's not impossible for Teiwaz to break into all those smaller corporations, each with its own boss, as a result of the huge war brewing or, say, Barriston dying, his possible successors Naze and Jasley also dead, with infighting reaching the point where the whole conglomerate collapses.
tdx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-18, 10:39   Link #126
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Nah, being under Teiwaz is far more effective protection against pirates rides than any amount of MSs (which are provided be Teiwaz as well). He definitely could handle go private, but even if he he managed part his way with Teiwaz in peace he would still receive serious backslash .

Tekkadan is in better position, but Considering Teiwaz has greater presence in outer sphere, Tekkies get lot of benefits from being under them At least I doubt Gjalahorn has any facility capable accommodating Gundams so close. While Teiwaz send them newest piece of weaponry right after it left their factories. Not to mention Gjalahorn might not be enthusiastic about installing AV into their grazes...

EDIT:@/Tdx>> what are you even talking about?McMurdo has no problem with peace and never tried kill anyone from Tekkadan, do you maybe mean Nobliss with who Tekkadan has no ties whatsoever? Oh and don't forget any prosperity of Mars is tied to It's half metals and thus to Teiwaz as well.
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)

Last edited by Tenzen12; 2017-01-18 at 11:09.
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-18, 11:15   Link #127
Irenesharda
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdx View Post

I'm starting to think that it will depend on what happens to Barriston in particular and Teiwaz in general. It's not impossible for Teiwaz to break into all those smaller corporations, each with its own boss, as a result of the huge war brewing or, say, Barriston dying, his possible successors Naze and Jasley also dead, with infighting reaching the point where the whole conglomerate collapses.
There's the lynchpin of it all. McMurdo. His reaction and decisions in the wake of what's going on with the Turbines is what this is all going to hang on. If McMurdo dies somehow ( he could even have a heartattack I mean, all that bad news and all that fatty food just isn't good) that would leave all of Teiwaz floundering (since Jasley is a dead man walking).
I do think the death of Naze will change Orga like no other event has. (Hopefully Mika doesn't have to crawl and knock some sense into him again. )
We'll have to see if he will come out of this fire burnt or stronger.
__________________
"Someone who cannot forgive lies or secrets, will never trust another."

- Major Kyosuke Hyobu
Irenesharda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-18, 11:27   Link #128
Kurohane
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
Jasley's dead. No character like him gets away from karma for long in a Gundam series. It's a matter of when rather than if.
As long as Nobliss stays alive that will never be completely true. Rather, any greedy person that doesn't somewhat help the protagonists will get their comeuppance.
__________________
Kurohane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-18, 11:58   Link #129
tdx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
@Tenzen12
Of course I mean Nobliss.

Half-metal is deregulated only on the Arbrau colony territory (probably ~1/4 of the total martian territory), that is, only in Chryse, not on the entire Mars. Teiwaz is not the only halfmetal right holder in Chryse, the halfmetal rights for Chryse mines are shared between Teiwaz, Nobliss, McGillis' Montag company and Kudelia herself. If the other economic blocs (~3/4 of the martian territory) deregulate halfmetal, unless Tekkadan is still under Teiwaz by the time they rule Mars and has to pay that ridiculous kickback from every deal on Mars, Teiwaz will have no share in that, so no, prosperity of Mars isn't tied to Teiwaz.

Plus, as I said, a lot depends on what is going to happen with Barriston and Teiwaz from now on, whether they, both the man and the conglomerate, even survive the upcoming upheaval.
tdx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-18, 12:06   Link #130
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
That sounds around right. Anyway noone thinks Tekkadan should get Nobliss as their backer. If they ever need him they can use Kudelia who already has ties with him anyway.

But I think you are making mistake here. Teiwaz gets cuts from Tekkadan's share. As far as either of them doesn't get too greedy for they own good it should be pretty standard tarrif which is way export work everywhere anyway.
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-18, 12:25   Link #131
Irenesharda
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
As long as Nobliss stays alive that will never be completely true. Rather, any greedy person that doesn't somewhat help the protagonists will get their comeuppance.
Ahh, Jasley's a little different than Nobliss. Nobliss is a little more hands off. He's one of those that will eventually get his comeuppance, but it might not be on screen. He's like one of those villians in movies, where they were pulling certain strings in the background, weren't given a lot of screentime, but the hero tells them that "You'd better watch your back, because I'll be coming for you." striking a little fear for the villain before the movie ends.

Jasley on the other hand, would be that pompous bad guy who gets a very visual, explosive, usually satisfying death completely on screen that's usually around the climax.

It's just a matter of two different kind of villains get two different types of resolutions based on actions and character type and story.
__________________
"Someone who cannot forgive lies or secrets, will never trust another."

- Major Kyosuke Hyobu
Irenesharda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-19, 01:03   Link #132
Skaddix
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Tekkadan isn't directly connected to Nobliss. But they are basically married to Kudelia and Nobliss has been bankrolling Kudelia her entire career. Right now Nobliss is simply fine with Kudelia causing trouble because instability is good for business. But eventually Kudelia is going to have to pay him back.

The reason Nobliss isn't in danger is because he hasn't killed anyone Tekkadan cared about (yeah Fumitan but she doesn't really count) and has been far more help then hindrance. Its similar to McGillis getting a free pass for killing Aston.
Skaddix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-19, 01:40   Link #133
tdx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
Jasley's dead. No character like him gets away from karma for long in a Gundam series. It's a matter of when rather than if.

Orga being number 2? Perhaps, it really depends on where they want to go from here and how independent they want to make Tekkadan. Is it feasible for them to be on their own now? I think so. I think Naze could have been too if he really wanted to, but he's too laid back for that. That IS one think that Orga does better than Naze, and that's have a drive as well as ambition. Naze is more of a "que sera sera" guy.
Naze's priority seems to be cruising through life as peacefully as said life allows, not forgetting to partake of its pleasures, of course. Sure, he'd rise to the challenge if he was challenged, but he wouldn't go out of his way to initiate a challenge without pressing necessity. In contrast, Orga's priority is getting shit done and to always, always keep moving forward to achieve more - partly because of Mika and the constant pressure Mika's mere presence puts on Orga, partly to due to Orga's own nature (if ambition and hunger for achievement weren't prominent in him or went against his nature, I think he'd've broken from the pressure already). Orga is also ascetic and a bit of a control freak. But tbh, despite his flaws, I think Orga makes a better leader than Naze - less benevolent and more demanding, but still better (Naze is perhaps something of a cross between the extremes such as Orga and Biscuit but not exactly the golden mean?)

With his ambition now soaring as high as ruling a whole planet, I wonder if Orga can even play second fiddle to anyone anymore. If we look at the early days, it's apparent that he was never any good at taking orders (which pretty much saved the whole cast at the beginning, ironically), always preferring to think and decide for himself. That tendency of his didn't change any in S2, as evidenced by his striking the deal with McGillis without so much as asking his formal boss, Barriston. To make it worse, his need to be in control seems to have grown quite a bit since the early days, so I can't help doubting he'd be satisfied with anything other than the supreme leadership position anymore.

p.s. I agree that Jasley is done for, he just doesn't know it yet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
But I think you are making mistake here. Teiwaz gets cuts from Tekkadan's share. As far as either of them doesn't get too greedy for they own good it should be pretty standard tarrif which is way export work everywhere anyway.
I remember Barriston saying at that Teiwaz top brass meeting that in case of McGillis/Tekkadan's success Teiwaz will get a share in every deal on Mars (am I misinterpreting this?) And that's what I don't like. I have absolutely no problem with Teiwaz getting a fee for its services regarding halfmetal mine operation like providing equipment, mining, transporting, finding buyers and such. It's only natural and every work needs to be paid fairly, like Orga said at the beginning. But I do have a problem with them getting paid for doing literally nothing that the 'a share in every deal on Mars' condition implies.

Just imagine: the bakery store lady owner that took in Atra buys corn in bulk from Sakura's farm to bake her corn bread out of it. Teiwaz had no hand whatsoever in painstakingly growing and harvesting that corn, nor will Teiwaz help the bakery lady bake her bread out of it, so why should they be getting anything from the deal between Sakura-chan and the bakery lady? Why should the bakery lady pay more and Sakura-chan get less for her corn to cover their share? It's far from fair, to put it mildly. Moreover, unlike taxes that at least can be regarded as relocation of money within the same economy, the Teiwaz deal means withdrawing money from the already barely breathing economy to line pockets of some filthy rich fat cats half across the solar system. It just can't be right or beneficial to the people of Mars. That's why I would rather see Tekkadan separate themselves from Teiwaz if it means avoiding it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaddix View Post
The reason Nobliss isn't in danger is because he hasn't killed anyone Tekkadan cared about (yeah Fumitan but she doesn't really count)
Technically, only Kudelia (and McGillis) knew for sure that Fumitan was planted by Nobliss. So I kinda wondered in the back of my head in season 1 whether Kudelia even told anyone at Tekkadan that Fumitan was a spy. I wouldn't put it past her to not mention it to even, say, Orga or Mika in order to make sure Fumitan is remembered as her loyal supporter who sacrificed herself to protect her master from Nobliss' attempt at martyring Kudelia in the process of igniting uprisings everywhere.

Kudelia will only have to pay her dues if Nobliss lives long enough to demand it
tdx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-19, 05:36   Link #134
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
And now imagine this: Bakery store lady pay taxes... and that's it. Tekkadan are contracted collectors and part of Teiwaz conglomerate. There is no reason for Teiwaz who stand above Tekkies not get money out of their profit.
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-19, 06:26   Link #135
tdx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
The main purpose of tax collection is to strengthen an economy by rerouting money within it to where it's needed and to fulfill social responsibilities before the people who pay those taxes - not take money out of the economy, weakening it further. I stand by my point: Teiwaz has no business getting a cut in all the deals on the martian territory, it won't help Mars fight its encompassing poverty any, thus should be avoided.
tdx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-19, 07:00   Link #136
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
It has, Tekkadan collect tariff, provide security and act as middleman for Gjalahorn that's their job
a) They keep all profit
b) They give cut to Teiwaz.

It makes no difference for economic, just for Tekkies theirself.
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-19, 17:40   Link #137
Skaddix
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Well yes but governments (at least good ones) tend to reinvest that tax revenue back into their country. Whereas any cash going to Teiwaz isn't guaranteed to help the Martian Economy.
Skaddix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-20, 00:40   Link #138
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Why should Tekkadan's money help any economy? They receive percentage of trading deals and provide service they are contracted to and both sides are happy.

As I said Doesn't matter if money goes to Tekkadan itself or is split between them and Teiwaz. It's still same amount and as long as all obligation are fulfilled inner management of aforementioned conglomerate is No-one's business.

But yeah I am sure there is no force in universe that could stop Tekkies from reinvesting their money where it count most... their self.
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-20, 02:01   Link #139
Skaddix
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Sure Tekkadan in itself doesn't have to help the Martian Economy but they are married to Kudelia who will want just that.
Skaddix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-01-20, 09:50   Link #140
Tenzen12
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Sure they have some ties with her and a simpathise with her cause, but you seriously overstimate it's importance.
__________________
"I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)
Tenzen12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.