(L) Sakamichi no Apollon (Kids on the Slope)

[Flawfinder]

I'm pretty sure Sen's issues with his father were explained in Episode 4. The reason he left can also be attributed to Episode 4, but Episode 11 wasn't good anyways, so whatever. But as for this...

Originally Posted by bbee

How the hell is it that the loss of Sen does not drive Kaoru and Ritsuko closer together, but only ends up driving them apart? If you lose a friend, you value the remaining ones MORE, not less.

Actually, no. I'm pretty sure that the loss of a friend can drive people apart just as much as it drives them closer together. I've heard of couples that divorced because of the loss of a child and such. Besides, it wasn't just Sentaro leaving. Kaoru was going to a college in Tokyo, far away from Ritsuko. There's no way their relationship could work with him so far away. In fact, it's an exact carbon copy of Jun moving far away, so he tried to break things up with Yurika.

How is it that they seemed to resolve this without words?

I will never understand why this is a negative. The father's actions with giving Sen a pen (I forgot why that was significant, but I'm pretty sure the anime explained it) was more than enough to resolve things. It's that Watanabe style of "show don't tell" that I want to scream at Fate/Zero, Tatami Galaxy, and especially Makoto Shinkai to do.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by bbee

How is it that they seemed to resolve this without words?

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst

I will never understand why this is a negative. The father's actions with giving Sen a pen (I forgot why that was significant, but I'm pretty sure the anime explained it) was more than enough to resolve things. It's that Watanabe style of "show don't tell" that I want to scream at Fate/Zero, Tatami Galaxy, and especially Makoto Shinkai to do.

@bbee
It was resolved with words - or rather, because of words. From episode 4, the main issue eating away at Sen was that he felt that he didn't have a place in that home (which his foster father's reaction to the grandmother's death played a huge part in creating). But in episode 11, the father referred to them as parent and child ("A child doesn't go turning down a present from his parent").

Though Flawnalyst is right about the style of this series: Watanabe has really been using the "show don't tell" route here - which means that some feelings/developments etc might be missed for one reason or another.

Although...I do agree with those who say that the last three episodes were a little too rushed.

[Kirarakim]

I am not sure if I am glad I read the manga or not. I think if I had not read the manga I would have been less disappointed because I would not have known what they left out. But if I had not read the manga I would have missed so many wonderful details.

The real shame is this series was not given 2 cours when there was certainly enough material to do so. I think Watanabe did a good job with the time frame he was given but it's still regrettable.

Yes the last few moments of this episode were gold but I missed the character development and steps that got Kaoru to reunite with Sen

Spoiler for manga:

what the anime doesn't show is it's Kaoru that comes to the decision to ultimately look for Sen by showing his picture around Jazz clubs in Tokyo. This is how he is reunited with Jun and how Yurika knows where to find him to show him the photo.

But ultimately it's Kaoru's action that reunites him with Sen not just a magical perchance of running into Yurika

As for the anime itself the highlight for me was definitely the school festival ep. I liked how this last episode called back to that with Sen & Kaoru running away again. Oh and I think Ri-chan looks really cute with short hair.

As I said in the manga thread Sen becoming a priest is the perfect way to keep the 3 of them together forever (besides a menage a trois)

So basically I enjoyed it and it was one of the better series this spring (although Tsuritama wins the noitaminA block) but I think it's the manga I really want to own.

[Master Chibi]

Last three episodes were awful, the pacing turned to shit and everything was obviously forced into 22 minutes when there was clearly more to take in. The second half of the last episode actually pissed me off even though I usually love that type of thing (shots of the future).

I'm pretty conflicted, this show was pretty god damn amazing, literally one of my favorites in the friggin decade and a half that I've been watching anime and the last three episodes just went against all that.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst

I will never understand why this is a negative. The father's actions with giving Sen a pen (I forgot why that was significant, but I'm pretty sure the anime explained it) was more than enough to resolve things. It's that Watanabe style of "show don't tell" that I want to scream at Fate/Zero, Tatami Galaxy, and especially Makoto Shinkai to do.

I've never watched the later two series, but I think that Fate/Zero was (aside from very few scenes) perfectly grounded and down-to-earth in its depiction of human emotion. Honestly sometimes it seems like people carry the 'Show, don't tell' thing so far that they would find any series overwrought and over-the-top unless the entire cast of characters is in a coma. Sometimes people do clearly and demonstratively show strong emotion, y'know, I don't see why stories are overwrought and melodramatic unless characters always express themselves as understatedly and with as few syllables as possible. The 'Show, don't tell' thing is carried so far sometimes that it makes it sound as though people just like dry stories because apparently anything except muted emotion is too much emotion. :/

Anyway A+ episode, 10/10. I'm surprised at just how much ground the series covered; beforehand I expected the series to only cover the summer of 1966, when in actuality it extends all the way through 1977. The scene with Kaoru and Sentaro running down the slope was very uplifting, I've watched it a few times already. I'm glad that they both managed to purge a lot of the ugly things that were inside their hearts, they're now 'purer' versions of themselves than they were during the 1960s.

[FredFriendly]

Well, as unbelievable as it may be, I find this episode even more unsatisfactory than volume 9 of the manga.

The first half of the episode was actually pretty good. They didn't cut or change too much from the source material. In fact, even though the segment where Karou is leaving to go to Tokyo is somewhat different than it is in the manga, I felt it was actually an improvement, in some ways, and was even more emotional. Well done.

However, the time leap at the beginning of the second half of episode 12 was even more drastic than it was in the manga (who does Watanabe think he is, Hosoda?). What the anime staff left out, and what they changed (a lot of it very significant to the Karou's development and the audience's appreciation of events) was, to me, far more unsatisfactory than the manga which, itself, was not particularly satisfactory.

I actually skipped through the jam session in the church for two reasons: 1) it was different than the manga, which had more impact on me and, 2) although I didn't think of it while reading the manga, I suddenly questioned Karou's ability to just sit down at a church organ and pump out amazing jazz. We have no prior knowledge of him playing anything similar to the organ in that church, and if he didn't have any previous experience, I doubt very much that he could have done what he did. I might be wrong (since I am not a pianist or organist), but I don't think so. That type of organ is far more complicated than a simple piano, including knobs, different keyboard layout, and more peddles. I will admit my personal bias here. My mother was exceptionally brilliant at playing the piano and a full church organ, so the mangaka (and anime staff) plunking Karou down at a church organ and pumping out a brilliant piece without, presumably, any previous experience or even practice was just too much of an affront to my intelligence as someone who does appreciate good music.

The ending, though similar to the ending of the manga, was, in reality, an emotional derailment of the source material. The ending of the anime did not give me the same hope for, or vision of the future for the three main characters as did the manga. Not that the manga was all that much better.

So, the first half of the episode was just fine. The second half, well, if the source material speeding through those eight years was like rapdly "sliding down the razor blade of life" (which it was; anyone know the musical reference without doing a search for it?), then the last half of the episode was like jumping of a cliff and plummeting to an disastrous end.

Originally Posted by bbee

...I'll have to remember to bring the manga with me on holiday to see if it will meet the same fate. Sigh..

I'd say, don't bother. You might be less frustrated, but not by much.

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

Nodame was great, but the 5 minute duet in this week's episode was just something else.

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I watched the duet again. While I loved a number of the musical performances in Nodame Cantabile, I have to say this is the single best depiction of a musical performance I've ever seen in an anime. A couple of Chiaki's conducting performances come close, though.

I will agree that some of the performances in this anime were quite good but, unlike Nodame Cantible, none of them are that good enough to make me want to watch even one episode of this anime again. I have watched every episode of all three seasons of Nodame Cantabile more than twice (and the live action version, too), and, hell, I've even suffered through the Endless Eight at least twice. The English version of God Knows... performed by Wendy Lee is my favorite in-anime musical performance (partly due to Yuki's guitar performance), which I've even made an MP3 of so I can listen to any time I want. But I simply cannot see myself watching this anime again, no matter how good those few performances were. Comparatively speaking, the typical episode of Nodame Cantible had two performances of really great music, sometimes up to four pieces. Musically speaking, Sakamichi no Apollon, as a series, just does not compare to Nodame Cantible. And, no, I'm not a classical nut. Jazz is on an equal wavelength as classical music for me.

It's really a shame, too. The anime had so much potential right from the first episode. The anime staff, for the most part, did an excellent job of adapting the source material through the 1st half of episode 12. But the ending left so much out, and veered every so slightly off course, that it was most unsatisfactory. I'm all for an anime original ending, if it improves upon the source material, but this just didn't (for me).

You can blame the time constraints of the anime season. You can blame the source material. But I blame the director. He could certainly have cut 12 minutes of miscellaneous scenes from the previous 11 episode so the 2nd half of the last episode could have been expanded to fill the whole episode. Then it wouldn't have felt so rushed, as well as bringing the anime to a more satisfactory conclusion. I'm sure if I was willing to watch those 11 episodes again, I could find 12 minutes worth of scenes that weren't as important to the anime as a whole as all the important stuff from volume 9 of the manga that was left out of the anime. Since he did come up with his own anime original ending, anyway, he could even have improved upon the source material if he had devoted more time to the ending. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

I've never watched the later two series, but I think that Fate/Zero was (aside from very few scenes) perfectly grounded and down-to-earth in its depiction of human emotion.

Unfortunately, even that didn't get across very well. The emotions in that show were terrible on account of the fact that all the characters were stoic. But that's for a different thread. Besides, I like the show.

Anyways, I only thought that Episode 11 was rushed. Episode 10, the only thing I felt was rushed was the end. I didn't get a single rushed feeling from Episode 12 at all.

I will agree that some of the performances in this anime were quite good but, unlike Nodame Cantible, none of them are that good enough to make me want to watch even one episode of this anime again.

I'm sort of torn on which is better to tell you the truth. Nodame Cantabile, I hate everything about it that doesn't involve Nodame and Chiaki, but there's a lot of that in the anime, so it holds up well. Kids on the Slope, there were two episodes I really didn't like and some of the characters didn't get as much focus as I would have liked. I'm a jazz guy and hate static scenes, so obviously I loved the music in this anime. Nodame though had much more focus on the music and I liked the music fine...even if it came at the expense of having to deal with unfunny annoying characters and static scenes. Better finish that series.

[FredFriendly]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I am not sure if I am glad I read the manga or not. I think if I had not read the manga I would have been less disappointed because I would not have known what they left out. But if I had not read the manga I would have missed so many wonderful details.

Personally, I think the very ending of the anime is too ambiguous. I think the manga gives a much clearer vision of what might happen in the future. And, too, the anime leaves out so many details and story segments from the manga that sort of give the reader an idea what happened during those eight years, instead of the black hole of knowledge we were presented in the anime.

The real shame is this series was not given 2 cours when there was certainly enough material to do so. I think Watanabe did a good job with the time frame he was given but it's still regrettable.

I don't think there was really enough source material to fill out 2 cours. On the other hand, if the director did as good a job at stretching the source material as he did in compressinig it in this version of the anime, he probably could have filled 24 episodes.

Yes the last few moments of this episode were gold but I missed the character development and steps that got Kaoru to reunite with Sen

Spoiler for manga:

what the anime doesn't show is it's Kaoru that comes to the decision to ultimately look for Sen by showing his picture around Jazz clubs in Tokyo. This is how he is reunited with Jun and how Yurika knows where to find him to show him the photo.

But ultimately it's Kaoru's action that reunites him with Sen not just a magical perchance of running into Yurika

At least in the anime, it is pretty clear that Karou and Sentarou have not been in touch during those eight years. But the anime left everything up to the imagination as to what went on between Karou and Riichan during those eight years. Really, what is the anime viewer supposed to believe what happened between them? Nothing? Everything? Did they keep in touch? Did they not keep in touch? At the end of the first half of episode 12 we see Riichan, blushing and looking like she's ready to cry, desperately running after the train that is speeding Karou away to Tokyo. Commercial break. Then, all of a sudden, it's eight years later! At least the manga gave us a very clear vision of what transpired between the two. This is one of the reasons why I am so dissatisfied with the anime version.

Spoiler for more manga comments; don't peek if you're thinking of reading the manga:

Though, as I expressed in the manga forum, I have my doubts as to what Riichan was feeling so guilty about that she wouldn't get in touch with Karou again. If it wasn't for Karou's search for Sentarou, he and Riichan may never have met up again, ever. He certainly wouldn't have contacted her, since he believed her to have completely severed ties with him. But she was feeling so guilty for what that she would never have contacted him again? Because she was lonely and let some guy come over to her place? Or was it because what they did when he was there?

The manga made their eventual reunion a much more emotional event than the, "Oh! Glad to see you guys" reunion (if it was a reunion, who knows if you only view the anime?) that the anime version gave us. It was even more so, as it happened after a wedding ceremony (hint, hint), and, not only does Sentarou say that Riichan said that she is looking for a bridgegroom, he even says he'll perform their wedding ceremony.

Oh and I think Ri-chan looks really cute with short hair.

As beautiful as she is in the anime, I thought she looked much prettier in the manga. Plus we get so see more of her, and so many more of her wonderful expressions! Here's a few:

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst

Anyways, I only thought that Episode 11 was rushed. Episode 10, the only thing I felt was rushed was the end. I didn't get a single rushed feeling from Episode 12 at all.

Have you read the manga version? I do agree that the first half of episode 12, compared to the source material, was not rushed. I guess the second half of the episode, of what little of the original source that it did include, was not rushed, per se. It was more of the gigantic leap into the future, without any reference, at all, to anything that had happened in the interim, that annoyed me and left me unsatisfied.

I'm sort of torn on which is better to tell you the truth. Nodame Cantabile, I hate everything about it that doesn't involve Nodame and Chiaki, but there's a lot of that in the anime, so it holds up well. Kids on the Slope, there were two episodes I really didn't like and some of the characters didn't get as much focus as I would have liked. I'm a jazz guy and hate static scenes, so obviously I loved the music in this anime. Nodame though had much more focus on the music and I liked the music fine...even if it came at the expense of having to deal with unfunny annoying characters and static scenes. Better finish that series.

Although Nodame Cantabile does not have the "bromance" element that this anime has, the music and the romantic angle are far more developed. I will admit that I did like the close-up animation of the musical performances (Karou's fingers on the keys; close-ups of Sentarou drumming) in this anime much better. The CGI (or whatever they used) in Nodame Cantabile, though very good, did not seem as natural.

Originally Posted by FredFriendly

..."sliding down the razor blade of life" (which it was; anyone know the musical reference without doing a search for it?)

What, nobody knows? One of my all time favorite comedic musical performers.

Spoiler for answer on youtube:

Tom Lehrer - Bright College days

There is one thing that I will miss very much from this anime and manga, and that's Riichan. If it wasn't for her, I don't know if I'd have continued to watch this anime (or read the manga) after viewing the first episode. She's not a "hot babe" nor is she a "buxom beauty" nor is she "sexy and alluring" nor does she have any of the usual traits of the typical "fanservice-fair" of the run-of-the-mill anime girl. But she is beautiful, and sweet, and kind, and everything a man could ask for in a woman who he would want to grow old with.

[Flawfinder]

I did read the manga. Liked a lot of it better (the melodrama involving Ritsuko was crap though), but I thought the timeskip was fine. Ending just reminded me of Watanabe's previous anime and how they ended: ambiguously, but I don't need to see anymore.

As for Nodame, that remains to be seen since I'm only a few episodes in. However, the only thing I like in it is Chiaki and Nodame (who are really fun and their relationship is better than the bromance in this show). I hate the other characters a lot. Music is fine, but the baggage that comes with it (the other characters) has a tendency to annoy me.

Either way though, they're both good shows and I hugely prefer them to other musical anime like Beck and Nerima Daikon Brothers, which I can't stand (and I don't know any others besides those two).

Edit: Anyways, as for my opinion on whether the show should have been about jazz the same way classical music was for Nodame...honestly, that wouldn't have worked in the setting of this show. Jazz just isn't enough of a big deal the same way classical music, or even rock music, is to actually put it in a school setting during a time period where jazz was slowly dying. What was that movie that tried to make a big deal out of something that will never be a big deal anymore? I believe it was called Blues Brothers 2000. And don't even get me started on Glee.

[DragoonKain3]

Well, colour me surprised. I would have thought that it would've been a loss for me because Bon would've ended up together with Ritsuko, but it's a loss because Bon missed Sen so much that it broke his relationship with Ritsuko... hence, its BonXSen who prevailed in the end. XD

(What's that you saying? Sen has his vows as a priest? I can't hear you over the roars of triumph by the fujoshis )

[orion]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Well, colour me surprised. I would have thought that it would've been a loss for me because Bon would've ended up together with Ritsuko, but it's a loss because Bon missed Sen so much that it broke his relationship with Ritsuko... hence, its BonXSen who prevailed in the end. XD

(What's that you saying? Sen has his vows as a priest? I can't hear you over the roars of triumph by the fujoshis )

They both missed him. Bon's anger stage of grief got the best of him when of all times he tried to have sex with Ri-chan.

Actually, Bon x Sen didn't prevail because Ri-chan is back in the picture and Bon is most likely available and cured.

[ID555]

Pretty disappointing the way it ended. I guess Kaoru's (hetero) romance was never meant to be the focus, but that was why I watched this. I'm glad I'm currently caught up in the afterglow of an amazing drama, otherwise I'd be a bit depressed.

[deadite]

they didn't show the wedding Jam session?

[Kanon]

The final episode was as disappointing as the previous two. A shame. The series had been almost flawless until episode 10, then I'm not exactly sure what happened but the quality of the storytelling decreased quite a bit. I guess adapting so many volumes in only 12 episodes was an impossible mission, even for Watanabe. I enjoyed these episodes nevertheless, but I wish they had been on the same level as the others.

Regarding episode 12, I was pretty peeved by Kaoru's attitude in the first half. It was as if he hadn't grown one bit over the course of the series. I understand Sen's departure dejected him, but that's no excuse to treat Ritsuko this way. That was a very childish reaction. I thought he was more mature by now. At least he was man enough to apologize to her before he left for Tokyo.

The timeskip was quite abrupt, and I didn't like the way Kaoru and Sentarou were reunited: through sheer coincidence. If Kaoru had never bumped into Yurika, he may have never seen Sen again. I would have liked it better if Kaoru had at least attempted to find him.

The jam session at the Church was great and almost made up for everything else. It felt like those two had never been separated. Having Ritsuko come the exact same day was forced, but whatever.

Overall, this was a great series that would have probably been tremendously better if it had gotten two cour. As it is, it feels a little incomplete. Some issues like Kaoru's problems with his family were raised but never touched upon. I would have wanted Sen to get more resolution too. Having him become a priest that cut all ties with his family presumably forever was weird. After he found his purpose in life, he could have gone back and straighten things out with his family.

You know, initially, I thought this would be a music oriented series, and I was surprised to find out while watching it that it wasn't the case at all. It was a character driven show, jazz acted only as a bridge between the two main characters. And the focus was definitely on friendship imo. The romance was just a side dish.

[-Sho-]

Like some people here , the latest episodes were rushed. I'm dissapoint too for all these sudden events & timeskip.
But well , this anime was really entertaining , touching & interesting.
The force was the friendship , best friends forever. The jazz was pretty nice.

What with all those haircut these days

So the ending romance -> Kaoru x Ritsuko / Jun x Yurika / Sen x .... nothing .... , yeah he's a priest

[White Manju Bun]

Heh funny that most people say they loved the series up til the end where for me I was on the fence for probably the first 9 epis and finally in 10, 11 and 12 I thought it hit gold. I also havent read the manga either tho. Church jam session was awesome. Im glad for the ambiguous ending, I liked it.

[hikarihikari]

I really enjoy the last episode. That's serious some Watanabe style I'd say. I mean, people gets separate, dispite they willing it or not, that's how our life works.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I ended up feeling as if I didn't understand any character in the show, except maybe Yuriko.

Even Sen x Kaoru never quite made emotional sense to me. And they just took Ri-chan x Kaoru up to a certain point two episodes ago and then dropped it, more or less completely, without giving us a real sense of how Kaoru's feelings evolved. Clearly, I have to admit that the intention was to make the guys' relationship the centre, but I don't feel as if they succeeded in that, or in anything except giving us a sense of Yurika's wonderful self-abandoned passion. And the joy of music, which is really the one exceptional thing about this show for me. Quite a disappointment after the wonderful first few episodes. Endings really are the hardest thing to do.

I should add that, dubious as it may have been (priests have to be strong enough academically to get through college), seeing Sen as a priest was excellent.

Maybe all that was required was more time, not sure. It certainly felt as if there were all the ingredients there for something special, but the cooking was rushed and confused in the latter part of the series.

[Kaioshin Sama]

For the record this show is not a romance story even if that's an aspect of it's plot, just felt like mentioning that.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

For the record this show is not a romance story even if that's an aspect of it's plot, just felt like mentioning that.

I am fully aware of your and others' longstanding and oft-repeated opinion. I just felt like mentioning that. In fact, I have come to share your opinion, since they did so little with the romance side of the story, after getting it going pretty well. In fact, I feel they did precious little with the friendship side of the story, and even the personal development side of the story, which were evidently the sides they wanted to emphasize, after getting them well set up.