2004-07-19, 08:44
|
Link #61 | |
|
stfu-no-jutsu
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 45
 |
Quote:
and FYI, Masenna? You don't even read about her.. The 2 you were talking about is Lanfear and Moghedian.. Lanfear being the one who loves Rand and Moghedian being the spider.. However, I think you meant Moiraine. She's the Aes Sedai who helps rand in the first couple books then Spoiler:
Do yourselves a favor and finish reading the series.. Hell, start over if you want the full effect.. The first 3 books are pretty slow.. 4 and 5 start to heat things up.. After that it gets REALLY awesome. By book 11 you are hoping that Jordan finishes the series before he dies.. Dear God if I don't get closure on this series im going to go mad! =) Sorry I know this is horribly off-topic for the Naruto forums but I just had to get my WoT fix =) (BTW, Book 11 is due out October 2005 ^_^ Another year of waiting =( ) Last edited by Anjin; 2004-07-19 at 10:28. |
|
|
|
|
2004-07-19, 08:48
|
Link #63 | |
|
stfu-no-jutsu
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 45
|
Quote:
Either Way, the similarities between naruto and the 4th is hard to deny and discredit .. Although Naruto looks like Tsunade's brother also.. Maybe its just the way they are drawn ... Anyhows, we will find out eventually, but theres more to it then what we can think of im sure.. Kishimoto hasn't let us down yet, and I don't expect him to anytime soon =) |
|
|
|
|
|
2004-07-19, 09:08
|
Link #64 |
|
Kage Bunshin
Join Date: Jul 2004
|
hmm.. good points... but im a skeptic; i wont believe unless kishimoto tells us about naruto, the 4th and the kyuubi.. in the ep when the 3rd summoned the shinigami, we saw the souls of the 4th and kyuubi(?) when the shinigami ate them.. quite weird, but it tells me that naruto was not the 4th's reincarnation, because reincarnation, if i remember my lessons about hinduism correctly, always involves the soul entering a new body, right? so, well, its my opinion..
if you guys dont mind, let me ask another question... what if naruto was the REAL bad guy in this series?? i mean, with the kyuubi in his body, and his ability to control the chakra, what if the kyuubi goes berserk and out of naruto's control and that he becomes the bad guy again?? who will be able to seal that again?? |
|
|
|
|
2004-07-19, 09:24
|
Link #65 | |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
|
Quote:
There is a very easy answer to this: The 4th did infact have kyuubi sealed in him. It was only when he banged one of the pretty girls in konoha that he lost the kyuubi. Why you ask? Becuase when he banged that girl, the kyuubi jumped on to a sperm and 9 months later he found him self trapped in a new body, naruto's body. |
|
|
|
|
|
2004-07-19, 09:31
|
Link #66 | |
|
stfu-no-jutsu
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 45
|
Quote:
2) If he had the Kyuubi sealed in him, he'd be dead. Not many pretty girls have sex with dead men. 3) I think the Kyuubi has better ways to move around then sperm-hitchhiking. I realize your post was a joke, but try to be more tasteful or something. =/ |
|
|
|
|
|
2004-07-19, 11:38
|
Link #67 | ||
|
Searching for the Cure
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington
|
Quote:
It was never noted anywhere who his parents were, or how they died. Its also never noted where Naruto came from. Also im pretty sure the 3rd was stronger than the 4th, he was known as the "god" of the kages, or something like that (its said when Oro fights him). Quote:
So if you agree to that theory, you have to agree to this: The 4th had a women pregnant that nobody knew about, AND she just happen to give birth at the moment the 4th wanted to seal the Kyuubi. I say this because if Naruto's mother was known, they would know who Naruto was to begin with, but they dont, so you have to assume he knocked somebody up, then didnt tell anyone. Secondly the child had an umbillical cord still, which means that it was just recently born. So as you can see that theory would be very hard to pull off. |
||
|
|
|
|
2004-07-19, 13:38
|
Link #68 | |
|
stfu-no-jutsu
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 45
|
Quote:
When Kishimoto explains it to us, then all of us will know.. I tend to think that Naruto's parents aren't important and thats why they have never been mentioned. Maybe they died and so Naruto was used as a vessel for the Kyuubi in their memory, as an HONOR to save Konoha. Remember what the 3rd said? THe 4th wanted Naruto viewed as a Hero, not a Monster. I tend to believe more and more that the 4th was Naruto's father. We'll find out one day =) |
|
|
|
|
|
2004-07-19, 13:50
|
Link #69 | |
|
Searching for the Cure
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
2004-07-19, 19:59
|
Link #70 | |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
2004-07-19, 20:16
|
Link #71 | |
|
Searching for the Cure
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
2004-07-19, 20:18
|
Link #72 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
|
Yeah he did save them, but that doesn't mean the Kyuubi won't burst out and kill their families again and just cause the 4th stopped it, doesn't mean it will bring back the loved ones they lost and won't erase the horrors they've seen, felt, lived through and know Naruto is capable of doing again.
|
|
|
|
|
2004-07-19, 20:52
|
Link #73 |
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
|
Well... one thing I noticed while keeping track of Naruto has been Kishimoto's use of different japanese mythologies. The Kyubi being one of the first shown in the manga.
Throughout reading the common myths of the Kyubi, it repeatedly refered to it as being a shapeshifter, and usually takes the form of a beautiful woman. It was mentioned that Naruto was born the night the Kyubi attacked Konoha. Also that the battle occurred on the outskirts of the village in the middle of the forest. So unless the Fourth carried the Kyubi back to the village to a newly born Naruto, one can surmise that Naruto was born within the vicinity of the battle. Also I'd find it highly unlikely that pregnant female kunoichi would be fighting in a life and death battle of this type. If his mother was the current vessel of Kyubi that for some reason attacked the village, then one can assume that she gave birth to naruto at the end of the battle, most likely to escape the soul entrapment performed by the Fourth. The Fourth having already started the death seal on the woman's soul would be unable to stop it in midstream as the Kyubi tried to escape to a newly born Naruto. The best the Fourth could've done at that point would be to kill the newly born and innocent child but doesn't (due to conscious or some other undisclosed reason ;P ). |
|
|
|
|
2004-07-19, 21:51
|
Link #74 | |
|
Did you say something?
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sidewalk
|
Quote:
Okay, let me reiterate what I'm trying to say with more details (hope you can understand, I probably won't be able to understand it myself :P ). It doesn't take a genius like the 4th to figure out what to do. I think once he's got the death sealing jutsu perfected all he needs is perfect timing and to hope that everything goes according to plan. In all honesty, Naruto's world has a mixed of medieval and the future - we see bicycles and headsets...advanced hospitals and electricity so why not learn the day of the baby's birth. Granted, somethings may be off, or the baby's birth might be premature or a little late but that doesn't mean everything is a lost cause things can still go according to plan. I guess the problem with my theory is Kyuubi. How exactly does he go about attacking Konoha? Does he visit daily or does he do it every single day? What would it take to push back Kyuubi in hopes that he disappears for awhile? Because when news of Naruto's birth reached the 4th's ears, he could've drawn the hiding Kyuubi out of his realm and force Kyuubi to attack Konoha (with Naruto's sealing preparation ready to go). Who knows? Also, I think that the 4th would willingly seal Kyuubi inside Naruto (if he was someone close to him OR his son) because no matter what he is Hokage and even Hokages are forced to make decisions no matter how bearing it could be. The fact of the matter is, who in what mind would ask someone's elses child to be sealed? No one because the moment Kyuubi is sealed inside the child he (in Naruto's case) becomes a monster and Yondaime doesn't want to put the burden on his citizens. On the other hand, why would he seal it on his own blood? Because I think, he thinks, that it lessens the burden because it would be okay if his own blood shares his pain and his burden and his belief that everything would be okay. Because he trust his own blood - Naruto. I think he was fully aware of the consequences because he isn't a genius and a hokage for no reason. Which is why he told Sandaime that he wanted him to remind everyone to look at Naruto as a hero - the savior of Konoha because he will be the one to carry the burden - Yondaime's legacy. To remind everyone that out of the fruit of evil (or disaster or terror, etc), something good can come out of it. Hope and peace. And the greatest future Hokage that anyone will ever see. ^^ Naruto of course. Sadly, they forgot. (Stupid bakas) There's also the additional bonus that Yondaime can sit back in Shinigami's belly knowing that his son (or neice or lil bro...blah...blah...)isn't going to die for awhile with Kyuubi constantly healing him and making him technically immortal (once Naruto is able to control it). As for the jutsu-reverting him back to a child. O_o Your ideas are rather unique...lol...I would agree...except I remember the Laws of Relativity and that there's always a limit to what you can control (to a degree of course seeing as Orochimaru has his 'thing') - (we know that whatever laws here in real earth doesn't apply, but to some extent it could very well apply to Kishimoto - you don't see Naruto strutting around with perfection do you even though he has Kyuubi?) |
|
|
|
|
|
2004-07-20, 00:37
|
Link #76 | |
|
Searching for the Cure
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington
|
Quote:
 Also, i was thinking about the Kyuubi deal. I think it would have been pretty cool if say another village, or Leafs enemies had summoned the Kyuubi upon the village, and couldnt control it. Maybe thats why Itachi wants to obtain it so bad. It just seems odd that this kyuubi is just a "natural disaster" that runs through killing things every now and then. |
|
|
|
|
|
2004-07-20, 07:13
|
Link #77 | |
|
now with 20% more ego!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Singapore
Age: 33
 |
Quote:
2.The soul hung on Death's 'cross'(*It wasn't a cross,by the way.The soul was bound by Death's hair*)wasn't the Fourth,it was the Third. 3.No,they havent' made the soul look like what they've shown us how the Fourth looks like. |
|
|
|
|
|
2004-07-21, 03:17
|
Link #78 |
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
|
I'll admit this right off. I'm new to the Naruto series. I've been watching, reading, and all in all catching up since early June and am surprised at how many conclusions that I have made that others haven't. I shall spill out a few now. I make no claims to have massive ammounts of the details memorized. But, I'd still like to share my perspective.
Gaara as Naruto's Copy Several people have mentioned Gaara's birth and the nature of him in comparison to Naruto. I'm sure it's been mentiond somewhere before, and this might be a little off topic, but my first thought when learning the explanation of Gaara's abilities and, well, possession, was that Gaara was created in an attempt by the already paranoid and power hungry Kazekage to match what the 4th Hogage had done. I cite the fact that a son and daughter were already born. If he had been planing this all along, he wouldn't have bothered waiting for his third child. Perhaps something else was wrong I don't know about. Maybe he wanted his wife to die out of malice or she wanted to die or she was already dying. Like I said, not sure on all the details. Anyway, going off this theory, it seems likely that the 4th is Naruto's father. 'Hungh?' you ask? What does Gaara being the third child of the Kazekage and all that have to do with anything? Well, if the Kazekage had known something along the lines of, say, the leader of his rival village had recently sealed a dangerous demon inside the body of his own child, then he, too, could be loured into doing something similar despite the danger. I've seen almost nothing of this man and yet it seems like the kind of rash thought that a person like him, a person who put so much emphasis on the streagnth of his village over Konoha, would make. And, how else to one up a dead guy than to mimic what he did exactly and live through it yourself? Secret-keeping in Konoha Oh, in case you hadn't already guessed I'm a fan of the theory that Naruto is the 4th's son. Many people all over the internet seem to think that it's unlikly that Naruto could be the son of a man so well respected and yet such a thing could go unnoticed or unknown by so many poeple. This is ridiculious. Of course it could be so. One of the major themes in Naruto is secrecy. Information is more valuble, especially to the shinobi, than anything else in their world, and let's face it these people can keep a secret. No child had any real idea of Naruto's nature, including him, until he was told. People are constantly surprised by everything in the show. Even shinobi wearing Konoha headbands were surprised when Naruto was able to perform the Shadow Replication during his battle in episode 60! Come on! Him swiping that scroll set at least half a dozen shinobi on his tracks and when it comes to 'the' kid, some of them had to have spilled some about the results of that little incident. Nope. Does no one gossip in this village? Like I said, secrets. The audience takes for granted that other people can see what we see and know what we know and that they let on all that they in turn know to us. That's just plain foolish. Just about every character in Naruto over the age of 13 has a whole stack of proverbial cards behind his or her backs. A little thing like an illegitimate child, or hell even a loving wife, doesn't seem like it would be that hard to conceal (by those involved) or even to simply forget (as in the village as a whole). They've proved it can be done. I've not heard this brought up at all, either. If Naruto was a 'bastard' child of the 4th and a woman, reagardless of weather they loved each other or not, this could be considered shameful. In many societies a child born out of wedlock is shunned automatically. After all, in such a society such a child is not considered to be a true heir to either mother or father and might as well be an orphan. Along this line of thought, perhaps part of the motivation of the 4th sealing the nine tails in Naruto could have been in an attempt to redeem him in the eyes of the people. Can't change the birth situation, but you can make the kid a hero and hopefully give the people a reason to ignore what he was... or so he could have tried to do. If Naruto was illegitimate, having the fox in him could have been just another strike against him. Already a loathsome bastard creature to them, and now he has a loathsome creature in him. How appropraite, ne? Of course, not a soul who knew would have been able to speak of it even if they knew. To give a reason why he was chosen would have meant telling him he was chosen for anything at all. A Loving Wife? If the 4th was married, everyone's subsiquent ignorance could have been because at the time simply no one cared. I'm still a little sketchy about the powers and reign of the Hokage, but it seemed in at least the first half of the series that the 3rd was the one the people knew as their leader. I'm really reaching here, but was the 4th at all active? When was he named as the successor? If he hadn't held the title for very long, like perhaps as little a few days or hours, few people would know about his family, especially if his family was new as the presence of a newborn baby would imply. Heck, news doesn't travel fast amonst the commoners, it seems. Anything under a decade (either the marriage or title holding) and apathy and ignorance are still plausible. Also, if mom had given birth a few weeks ago {see gripe about 'newborns' below} and thought the village as at an end unless they all defended it with their lives, she could have theoretically been headstrong, and physically strong enough, assuming she was a shinobi, to go into battle and be killed. Many people have spoken about the 4th as being a lot less spastic or trouble ridden as Naruto. While it could be only the result of being an orphan out for attention, a 'headstrong mother' could also be to blame. And, if she died in battle, I could picture a heartbroken 4th sacraficing himself to save his home and new son. It would fit right into this series {see rant about corny emotional plotlines below}. And from what I've read and seen it seems entirly possible that the 4th could have essentially completed technique on the spot. We've seen lots of characters do such things. Get an idea, toy with it for a while, throw your power behind it in battle... Whoala! And this wasn't just any ordinary character, this man was a genius with the jutsu. Acomplishing something amazing in the aftermath of something great. Anyone ever seen the Red Violin? Like that. The Heart, Soul, and Lineage of an Innocent Hero I'm a chick. I've become obsessed with Naruto. I myself was surprised by this at first. I had been under the impression before seeing it that the Naruto series was somehow a fighting anime/manga and that it wouldn't be able to hold my interest which is why it has taken me so long to discover it's true glory. Naruto is not a fighting anime, not really. The series is stacked with emotion and character devlopment, and a lot of it is corny and predictable. You know what the results of the battle has to be and that's what makes it so hard to watch. Naruto is a very emotional series. That can be proved by the first story arc in which Naruto himself is moved to tears by an act of caring. Love, companionship, and togetherness are constant themes. How many times have they talked about caring for and protecting special people in one's life? One of the rebuttles to the theories about Naruto being the son of the 4th is that it would just be too corny to be true, and that really is the strongest arguement for it. You always see the big tear-jerking, gut-wreanching, searching for the tissue box kinda scenes coming a mile away in this show. Oh, so Iruka is an orphan too? I wonder if he will sympathize with Naruto and become like a surrogate father? Nah, too corny. Haku the faithful trainee give his life for the one he cares for? Nah, too corny. The guy Sasuke is after turing out to be his own brother? Nah, too corny! I think you catch my drift. Naruto is number one at suprising everyone but the audience. (Continued in next post) Last edited by Cait; 2004-07-21 at 03:29. |
|
|
|
|
2004-07-21, 03:18
|
Link #79 |
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
|
Naruto's exibition of open emotions, lovable naivete, and boundless capacity for streagnth both physical and emotional are the classic signs of an anime/manga stereotype that I like to refer to as the Innocent Hero. We see them all the time. The two most famous are Sailor Moon and Son Goku. Please don't throw rotten fruit at that. You all may detest those two characters and their respective shows, but Naruto fits side by side with them. The Innocent Hero isn't very bright, usually, until it comes to battle. The IH has a heart of gold. They are alway hungry and love food. They never seem to lack the ability to manifest power when it is needed, even if they seem to lack it on a day to day basis. Often, their true power is only revealed in battle, and when it comes to battle, the Innocent Hero always outdoes his or herself. They can ultimatly match anything they come against. And, the Innocent Hero is almost always of special, often secret origin. Goku turned out to not even be human. Sailor Moon is the Moon Princess. While being host to the nine tails could be considered a special/secret origin, this was revealed very early on in the show and seldom does the IH have all their secrets revealed right away. Usually all you get is the power maifesting itself and then you slowly trace it back to secret birthright. For the 4th to be Naruto's father, who sealed the nine tails in his son fore any reason, would play right into the stereotype. Somehow, a brother or cousin wouldn't have the same fire that the IH usually gets. Also, if he'd bound a little of himself inside Naruto when he died, then while Naruto would be an orphan, a part of his father would always be with him. So cheasy, but it would really fit. A relation like that would remind me a little of Dune and Paul-Leto II, as long as we're quoting from scifi/fantasy novels.
Newborns and Umbilical Cords Oh, and I'm not sure if it's because many of the posters here are male or just too young to care, but an attached umbilical cord stub is not a sign of a baby that has been born within hours. The umbilical cord stub on a baby takes anywhere from 10 to 20 days to fall off. There's lots of time in there for a drama to have unfolded. To be honest I don't even see one in the anime, and Naruto does seem a little big for a newborn of less than a few days or hours. And, a baby is considered a newborn for up to four weeks. Go ahead, look it up. It can't be just any kid! As much as I would like to see the 4th revealed as Naruto's loving father, I have to disagree with the constant comments that someone without the same strong blood as the 4th could contain a demon. In most anime, especially Naruto, it is proved time and again that every human contains within them the potential for greatness. Bloodlines my butt! The human body is a temple and the human heart and soul contain within them limitless power. After all even Naruto's power is often tied to his emotion. From the way they present the human body and heard in Naruto, it seems to me anyone could contain a demon. Sealed on the Battlefield As much as people are saying that there was no way that the spirit of the fox could have been brought to Naruto rather than the other way around, I don't see how else it could have been done. The whole bit with the candles doesn's seem to be portraied as the aftermath, it seems to be the enviroment the sealing was held in.... or that at least part of it was held in. Also, and I've never heard this, but what if the baby wasn't healthy? What if he had been injured or if he had been born with something wrong? One of the great manifestations of the nine tails power when Naruto first really began to tap into is was the insta-healing. If the 4th had known this, he could have been saving the kid's life by sealing that thing into him. That theory goes regardless of Naruto's relation to the 4th. Anyway, thus was my take on the whole matter. Please feel free to scold me for all my lapses in knowledge. I'm very interested in this whole nature of Naruto's seal thing. Oh, and sorry that I went on about the linneage bit about as much as the logic behind sealing. They kinda intertwine, methinks.... or at least I hope they do. Last edited by Cait; 2004-07-21 at 03:34. |
|
|
|
|
2004-07-21, 10:13
|
Link #80 | |
|
Unheard
Join Date: Nov 2003
|
Sorry, just let me backtrack a little O.o
Quote:
a) we saw was untrue, he stood on Gama b) even if he did it in that "light" we saw, I'm quite sure Kyubi would shake him easily off with one of his tails (in order to be sealed, he needs to be connected to the one who will be sealed for a period of time, be it 10 seconds, or 10 hours). Kyubi would crush him for just being touched. I'd suggest a technique used on Gaara was used by Yondaime too. Gaara is exactly the same as Naruto, it's just that the seal used on Naruto - being that it was Yondaime's design, was somewhat superior to that of the Shukaku seal Kazekage performed. Either that, or Kazekage left Shukaku intentionally on the verge of emergance, so that Gaara would be using him unconciously. |
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
I'm kinda too lazy to do that, and Jordan is still writing them...
)? Well, Noone knows what happens if Naruto dies. Will kyuubi be released or will he die? Even Kyuubi doesn't know for sure, why should he protect Naruto if he would?