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Old 2011-01-31, 08:09   Link #381
Chaos2Frozen
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Isn't the simplest of solution is just not giving the women access to the weapons in the first place ? Especially those that, you know, have extremist tendencies?
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Old 2011-01-31, 10:42   Link #382
kuroishinigami
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Tabane will just give Chifuyu or any girl she wants the ultimate IS and ask her to kill all those extremist :P. It's not possible not to give the women access since well, unlike real life, these IS doesn't come from years of research from a large group of scientist and engineers. Instead, it comes from the mind of one young genius girl who basically can control which one she want to give the IS for(Tabane can basically make an army of thousands of 4th gen IS if she want currently while all the other country is stuck on 3rd gen, unless there's a development in later volume that explains why Tabane only create a set number of IS).

Well, like I said, IS is like a super robot. If you can make something that strong, why don't those professor in super robot series didn't take over the world themselves :P. Don't try to read too much into it, and enjoy the setting that lead our protagonist to get his harem.
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Old 2011-01-31, 11:04   Link #383
Maverick05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Isn't the simplest of solution is just not giving the women access to the weapons in the first place ? Especially those that, you know, have extremist tendencies?
I think they already are doing that. Governments hold a tight control over who pilots the IS since only military and research personnel, rich people that can afford them, or VIPs have them.

Yet there is always the chance that they may steal a few cores here and there. XD

About female domination in IS society, I think someone said that it has only ocurred on the low and middle class, since high class and politics is still male dominated.

Also, lets be realistic in a fantasy world. XD


After IS was introduced, female and males goals in life changed drastically. Females can now become strategic and/or tactical weapons, and basically become a national treasure. Since an ace IS pilot can come from any levels of society (Cecilia is a noble, Charlotte an illegitimate daughter and lower class, Rin and Houki are middle class), government needs to grab all girls and increase their educational level so they can understand advance technology and engineering at high school. Even if they donīt qualify as IS pilots, they will most likely graduate from college (lets say 80%) and find a good $500k/year job.

Meanwhile, boys get stuck with the usual school stuff (Ichika couldnīt understand all the theory and technicality about the IS, while all the girls got it the first time).So lets say the graduation rate and high revenue job rate keeps the same (40%).

Suddenly, you got the Japan/Europe sindrome!!!!! As you said, survival of the fittest and strongest!!! Women will mate with a male stronger than her.....yet since the women have become soo "strong" in modern life, there are few man that can actually meet the female standards!!! Also, the few families that do get married want to get daugthers so they may have a better chance at the future, rather than boys that WILL have a hard life.

And thatīs the recipe to get a world dominated by women. XD Of course, full domination wonīt be fast, perphaps a generation or two; but it will change quickly the middle/low class.

BTW, I am really surprise too that there is no "Kill Ichika" massive movement. I understand Phantom Task just want his IS, but the boy holds the key for male reconquest of world domination!!! There must be a lesbian or feminist group out there that want to kill him before he spread his seeds.
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Old 2011-01-31, 14:39   Link #384
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They definitely are think, there is already a couple of successful test tube baby projects out right now. But given how Scholl is a confirmed lesbian (She has an intimate relationship with Autumn) the notion of a Feminist Terror group is very likely.
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Old 2011-01-31, 19:50   Link #385
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
Tabane will just give Chifuyu or any girl she wants the ultimate IS and ask her to kill all those extremist :P. It's not possible not to give the women access since well, unlike real life, these IS doesn't come from years of research from a large group of scientist and engineers. Instead, it comes from the mind of one young genius girl who basically can control which one she want to give the IS for(Tabane can basically make an army of thousands of 4th gen IS if she want currently while all the other country is stuck on 3rd gen, unless there's a development in later volume that explains why Tabane only create a set number of IS).
Even if Tabane created those cores, she still need resources, materials and manpower, and where does those things come from? Either a Government or a corporation. Even if she did it in the backyard of her house, she still needs to fedex those things all around the world, that means connections and those comes with string attached. There's no reason for anyone not to know.

Even something as simple as electric bills can give her away.

Or you know, omnious glowing lights coming from all direction...


Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
Well, like I said, IS is like a super robot. If you can make something that strong, why don't those professor in super robot series didn't take over the world themselves :P.
Just because you're an astrologist, doesn't make you an Astronaut.

Just because you're an aerospace engineer, doesn't make you a Pilot.

Same deal, just because you created super robots, doesn't make you a Ace pilot material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post

Don't try to read too much into it, and enjoy the setting that lead our protagonist to get his harem.
Hey they started it first with the women threatening to take over the world discussion I'm just saying... >.>
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Old 2011-01-31, 19:51   Link #386
darkalpha
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Uh can we not bring this thread into a whole "I hate religion" thing or blame everything on religion?
Sorry, that wasn't quite my intention - I was trying to point it out as an example why I find the premise of the sudden reversal of the superority roles in such short time to be unfeasible. Now, if it was over couple of decades later into the future, that may be more feasible. But only couple of years? You can't sweep centuries of male superiority under rug like that so quickly.

And originally, I only wanted to post my original argument to get it out of my mind, but after seeing that Obama panel in the IS manga basically shoving IS balance responsibility onto Japan, that triggered another argument in my head.

There's just no way US would do something like that; in contrary US would easily become the biggest sponsor of IS research due to its obession in protecting its national interests and security. There's just so many military applications of IS, even if the IS mecha itself is off-limits to military (barrier, personal propulsion, improved beam/laser technology, exo-suits, and many more). Plus Japan and US are already major allies so all more the easier for US to invest into IS research.

China likely would be second to US in its pursing of interests in IS technology, whether by investing into research or stealing IS secrects, Japan probably would feel nervous about China's interest in its IS technology (they've always had strained relations, yet they're dependent on each other for commerce and exports/imports). China being on side of NK isn't likely going to help either. But they'll be more than eager to dump billions of dollars worth of funding into the research.

Spoiler for About a certain IS from episode 4...:


Same would go for UK, France, Germany, Russia, Israel, South Korea, and many more nations; Japan's going to have a large amount of willing investors into the IS research.

Even if military research is banned or prohibited (or on the opposite side, being widely shared due to MAD agreement), there's still plently of civillian applications of IS technology. NASA would be first in a long line of such agencies willing to pour billions of dollars into the research, since it would make space travel much more practical (no more cumbersome space suits, as well as more effecient protection from harsh elements of space), as well as aerospace industry (better flight capabilities if they could somehow harness the flight capability of IS for their aircrafts), and so on.

Even if IS technology has to be moderated in a way to ensure that no nation would have overwhelming advantage, there simply won't be a lack of funding available for IS research.


Sorry for rambling here, but sometimes I over-analyze elements from anime that I happen to be enjoying at the moment. If they had simply made IS an AU as opposed to "near-future" story (like how Code Geass dealt with any real-world contradictions by going the AU route ), I'm sure I wouldn't be dwelling so much on fine details.
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Old 2011-01-31, 21:24   Link #387
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Originally Posted by darkalpha View Post
Sorry, that wasn't quite my intention - I was trying to point it out as an example why I find the premise of the sudden reversal of the superority roles in such short time to be unfeasible. Now, if it was over couple of decades later into the future, that may be more feasible. But only couple of years? You can't sweep centuries of male superiority under rug like that so quickly.

And originally, I only wanted to post my original argument to get it out of my mind, but after seeing that Obama panel in the IS manga basically shoving IS balance responsibility onto Japan, that triggered another argument in my head.

There's just no way US would do something like that; in contrary US would easily become the biggest sponsor of IS research due to its obession in protecting its national interests and security. There's just so many military applications of IS, even if the IS mecha itself is off-limits to military (barrier, personal propulsion, improved beam/laser technology, exo-suits, and many more). Plus Japan and US are already major allies so all more the easier for US to invest into IS research.


China likely would be second to US in its pursing of interests in IS technology, whether by investing into research or stealing IS secrects, Japan probably would feel nervous about China's interest in its IS technology (they've always had strained relations, yet they're dependent on each other for commerce and exports/imports). China being on side of NK isn't likely going to help either. But they'll be more than eager to dump billions of dollars worth of funding into the research.

Spoiler for About a certain IS from episode 4...:


Same would go for UK, France, Germany, Russia, Israel, South Korea, and many more nations; Japan's going to have a large amount of willing investors into the IS research.

Even if military research is banned or prohibited (or on the opposite side, being widely shared due to MAD agreement), there's still plently of civillian applications of IS technology. NASA would be first in a long line of such agencies willing to pour billions of dollars into the research, since it would make space travel much more practical (no more cumbersome space suits, as well as more effecient protection from harsh elements of space), as well as aerospace industry (better flight capabilities if they could somehow harness the flight capability of IS for their aircrafts), and so on.

Even if IS technology has to be moderated in a way to ensure that no nation would have overwhelming advantage, there simply won't be a lack of funding available for IS research.


Sorry for rambling here, but sometimes I over-analyze elements from anime that I happen to be enjoying at the moment. If they had simply made IS an AU as opposed to "near-future" story (like how Code Geass dealt with any real-world contradictions by going the AU route ), I'm sure I wouldn't be dwelling so much on fine details.
Unless this is backed up by the LN or manga, this is purely speculation. There's no guarantee the politics of IS is the same as the one here in the real world.
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Old 2011-01-31, 21:43   Link #388
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Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
Unless this is backed up by the LN or manga, this is purely speculation. There's no guarantee the politics of IS is the same as the one here in the real world.
and add the fact women are nearly dominating men here... probably makes the world topsy turvy
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Old 2011-01-31, 21:57   Link #389
kuroishinigami
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Even if Tabane created those cores, she still need resources, materials and manpower, and where does those things come from? Either a Government or a corporation. Even if she did it in the backyard of her house, she still needs to fedex those things all around the world, that means connections and those comes with string attached. There's no reason for anyone not to know.

Even something as simple as electric bills can give her away.

Or you know, omnious glowing lights coming from all direction...



Just because you're an astrologist, doesn't make you an Astronaut.

Just because you're an aerospace engineer, doesn't make you a Pilot.

Same deal, just because you created super robots, doesn't make you a Ace pilot material.



Hey they started it first with the women threatening to take over the world discussion I'm just saying... >.>

uhhhh, she created a 4th generation IS for houki in her secret lab without anyone finding out where she's at you know? And her secret lab is a portable lab that has an IS like appearance. Heck, if she wants I'm sure she can make an unmanned IS with 4th generation technology. So your assumption that she needs a government backing is obsolete(maybe she steals scrap metals to make those IS :P). Basically, she is right now like those super robot professor that doesn't need any government backing to make any super powered mecha weaponry.

For my super robot comment, imagine you're making Ideon or other super robot that can destroy universe with one move. Do you really think you need an ace pilot to do it instead of just knowing how to trigger the move that destroy the universe? or instead, the professor can just make an AI to man the super robot. Their power is sometimes too out of the world, and if the professors are that clever, I'm pretty sure making an AI that can control those robot will be a piece of cake

For the Obama comment, there's no such thing mentioned in the novel, I'm sure it's just a personal view of the manga artist I think so take it with a grain of salt ^^.
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Old 2011-01-31, 22:28   Link #390
Maverick05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkalpha View Post
Sorry, that wasn't quite my intention - I was trying to point it out as an example why I find the premise of the sudden reversal of the superority roles in such short time to be unfeasible. Now, if it was over couple of decades later into the future, that may be more feasible. But only couple of years? You can't sweep centuries of male superiority under rug like that so quickly.
Ļ

Actually, the invention of the IS has around 10 years from the creation of the White Knight, the first IS, until Ichika gets the Byakku Shiki.

And try to think about changes in todayīs world and not in 20 century!!!! Cell Phones have barely 10-15 years, flash drives 10 years, Facebook only 8. Changes today can happen quite fast now that the world is connected together. I think 10-20 years are more than enough time to change today`s world.


Quote:
And originally, I only wanted to post my original argument to get it out of my mind, but after seeing that Obama panel in the IS manga basically shoving IS balance responsibility onto Japan, that triggered another argument in my head.

There's just no way US would do something like that; in contrary US would easily become the biggest sponsor of IS research due to its obession in protecting its national interests and security. There's just so many military applications of IS, even if the IS mecha itself is off-limits to military (barrier, personal propulsion, improved beam/laser technology, exo-suits, and many more). Plus Japan and US are already major allies so all more the easier for US to invest into IS research.
Hmmm I think you may have misunderstood a few things here and there.

The US does make IS R&D, and they did built the Silver Gospel, a powerful 3.5 Generation IS. The Alaska Treaty doesnīt forbid IS development, it makes IS more of a Strategic weapon (like a nuke) than a tactical weapon (F-22). M

ilitary IS development isnīt forbidden and it is actually quite a big thing. Poor Charlotte was forced to crossdress and spy on Ichika to get Byakku Shiki (4th Generation IS) since France was barelly able to make their first 3rd Generation IS.

Also why would Japan have to make an alliance with the US for IS development when Japan has Tabane, the IS creator and best IS engineer!!!! The US was the one that actually had to force Japan to open a bit to get IS intel.

And even if Japan had to built the IS academy and cover all the expenses, they have Tabane for R&D, Maya and Chifuyu as IS army reserve, the first 2 4th Gen IS (byakku and Tsubasa), and the only male IS pilot!!! It ainīt a bad deal.

Quote:
Same would go for UK, France, Germany, Russia, Israel, South Korea, and many more nations; Japan's going to have a large amount of willing investors into the IS research.
Hmmm was there a lot of investors for the F-22 program??? or are they for the F-35 (besides England/Canada)??

Japan has enough resource and technoly to develop advance IS for themselves. Same for the US, Russia, and China. Europe+England actually had to gather together to finance their IS program, except for France that went solo and now they are having troubles in developing a 3rd gen IS.


[/QUOTE]
Sorry for rambling here, but sometimes I over-analyze elements from anime that I happen to be enjoying at the moment. If they had simply made IS an AU as opposed to "near-future" story (like how Code Geass dealt with any real-world contradictions by going the AU route ), I'm sure I wouldn't be dwelling so much on fine details. [/QUOTE]

It is ok, it does happen. XD

Ahh Code geass!!! great anime!!! Eventhough Code Geass went AU quite far back....supposely when the Britains defeated Julius Cesar, yet he brought a "strange power" that allow him to secure power until his death by natural disease. And thatīs not even including how Louis XIV and his Invincible Armada did defeat Brittania and forced Queen Elizabeth to flee to America and rebuild her empire there (and kill dumb Washington for trying to rebel).
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Old 2011-02-01, 00:10   Link #391
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
uhhhh, she created a 4th generation IS for houki in her secret lab without anyone finding out where she's at you know? And her secret lab is a portable lab that has an IS like appearance. Heck, if she wants I'm sure she can make an unmanned IS with 4th generation technology. So your assumption that she needs a government backing is obsolete(maybe she steals scrap metals to make those IS :P). Basically, she is right now like those super robot professor that doesn't need any government backing to make any super powered mecha weaponry.
Indeed, which was why I brought up that even if she created them in the backyard or basement of her house... And lets say she did steal scraps and somehow was able to manufacture her own micro components and smelt steel structure with that caldron in the back behind the make-shift furnace, and build from scratch the heavy machinery required to piece everything together, and the super computers stolen from various Universities needed to work out the equations nad simulations...

You still gonna need a ton of power source to back everything up.

Also, certain things like purchasing mini fusion reactors or an illegal tab into a hydro power station might set off warning flags... I should know >.>

Even that portable lab has to come from somewhere, and when it comes from somewhere, that means it can be traced, which leads to people eventually asking questions like "Why does this girl need a built in furnace, heavy machinery, micro components manufactoring capabilities, specialized tools, and enough computer processing power to predict the winning lottery ticket, all in this little portable lab that she could take with her anywhere? I wonder if she's up to something...?"

Heh, I'm just saying there should be enough hints to prepare anyone that maybe something is up... That's all... So my counter to crazy women taking over the world and to maintain the superiority of men- Just grab all the toys don't let them near it until they play nice Let The girls do all the hardwork and the guys kick back and sigh paperwork No need to change the social dynamics over a little something like that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
For my super robot comment, imagine you're making Ideon or other super robot that can destroy universe with one move. Do you really think you need an ace pilot to do it instead of just knowing how to trigger the move that destroy the universe? or instead, the professor can just make an AI to man the super robot. Their power is sometimes too out of the world, and if the professors are that clever, I'm pretty sure making an AI that can control those robot will be a piece of cake
Oh, you mean with an AI? That makes more sense.
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Old 2011-02-01, 07:55   Link #392
kuroishinigami
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Indeed, which was why I brought up that even if she created them in the backyard or basement of her house... And lets say she did steal scraps and somehow was able to manufacture her own micro components and smelt steel structure with that caldron in the back behind the make-shift furnace, and build from scratch the heavy machinery required to piece everything together, and the super computers stolen from various Universities needed to work out the equations nad simulations...

You still gonna need a ton of power source to back everything up.

Also, certain things like purchasing mini fusion reactors or an illegal tab into a hydro power station might set off warning flags... I should know >.>

Even that portable lab has to come from somewhere, and when it comes from somewhere, that means it can be traced, which leads to people eventually asking questions like "Why does this girl need a built in furnace, heavy machinery, micro components manufactoring capabilities, specialized tools, and enough computer processing power to predict the winning lottery ticket, all in this little portable lab that she could take with her anywhere? I wonder if she's up to something...?"

Heh, I'm just saying there should be enough hints to prepare anyone that maybe something is up... That's all... So my counter to crazy women taking over the world and to maintain the superiority of men- Just grab all the toys don't let them near it until they play nice Let The girls do all the hardwork and the guys kick back and sigh paperwork No need to change the social dynamics over a little something like that...



Oh, you mean with an AI? That makes more sense.
Good point, but that argument is obsolete since it's been told by word of god(or writer's word in this case :P) in vol 3 that Tabane create Houki's 4th gen IS while no one could find her whereabout(the only one knows how to contact her are Houki and Chifuyu). Don't ask me how can she do it, maybe her lab is actually on another dimension or something :P(in 3rd volume, she can disappear in a blink of an eye you know behind Chifuyu). If she can make one, why can't she make more. Heck, even another one with better pilot than Houki(like Chifuyu) might be able to defeat all the other IS since it's been said that Houki's 4th gen IS is much more advanced than other 3rd generation IS(too bad she's bad at piloting IS or she will defeat the other girl easily).

Personally, I really think this Tabane girl is even more crazy than those super robot professor. She create IS during her third grade on high school while wearing bunny ears, unlike those professor who turns fat from all the stress making a giant robot XD. Unless they will explain later how she does what she does, or explain what she is actually, she's kind of god-like in the IS world right now XD.


About the super robot comparison, yea, I was thinking about AI since we know only hot-blooded hero can pilot super robot well, not some fat mad scientist able to create a giant robot without military backing :P
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Old 2011-02-01, 15:36   Link #393
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Looks like someone of good faith will do a teaser of the light novel on Baka-Tsuki.

Teaser page: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...finite_Stratos

Forum page (the translations are still here): http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/vie...=3518&start=15
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Old 2011-02-01, 18:17   Link #394
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Man, how about male made virus that will only kill females and spread them across the world? Leave the follow generations to be born by cloning technology only.
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Old 2011-02-01, 20:15   Link #395
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^that would lead to epic yuri scenes and no kids...

also he'd hafta fight female toms...

also, im noticing ichika is an all rounder when it comes to combat, if not for the energy blade thats his main weapon that is like excalibur...
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Old 2011-02-01, 21:23   Link #396
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I did mention it before, but expect the teaser to be completed by 13 Feb
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Old 2011-02-01, 23:38   Link #397
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Eh....just wondering, but is Chifuyu really married? I always had the idea that she was a Misato-type character, only married to the alcohol.
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Old 2011-02-02, 00:02   Link #398
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Originally Posted by Maverick05 View Post
Eh....just wondering, but is Chifuyu really married? I always had the idea that she was a Misato-type character, only married to the alcohol.
take chifuyu as the husband who comes back tired from work and ichika as the faithful wife waiting at home. Go figure the rest

Just kidding. Figuratively speaking she's still single because of ichika. Her brother's life has been threatened before, i don't think she'll want to marry (considering this is the world of IS and we already saw cecilia's general outlook on men, now with ichika as an exception) especially if it means leaving ichika more open to danger.
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Old 2011-02-02, 01:27   Link #399
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take chifuyu as the husband who comes back tired from work and ichika as the faithful wife waiting at home. Go figure the rest

Just kidding. Figuratively speaking she's still single because of ichika. Her brother's life has been threatened before, i don't think she'll want to marry (considering this is the world of IS and we already saw cecilia's general outlook on men, now with ichika as an exception) especially if it means leaving ichika more open to danger.
Figuratively? I don't think there was any note of Chifuyu being married to somebody else(at least not in the novels).

Sorry if I misunderstood. When you said figuratively I thought you meant that Chifuyu was married and she comes back home from time to time looking after her bro.
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Old 2011-02-02, 05:59   Link #400
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Figuratively? I don't think there was any note of Chifuyu being married to somebody else(at least not in the novels).

Sorry if I misunderstood. When you said figuratively I thought you meant that Chifuyu was married and she comes back home from time to time looking after her bro.
Hush, I'm implying how the relationship between her and Ichika is like, albeit in a joking way.

Or I guess it's best to admit I had a poor choice of words while typing that on the phone.
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