Hyouka - General Discussion

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

People like Reckoner, Kaioshin, and the one or two people who hate everything from KyoAni that isn't Haruhi S3 or Little Busters hardly count as the majority of their "base".

Cool you can put words in my mouth.

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

The overall tone of the thread after the preview was posted doesn't necessarily indicate the voice of their "base", especially in such a small part of Animesuki like the Upcoming Series forum. It's not like you don't already know most of the attitudes towards KyoAni from a lot of the people who have posted, so you should be aware who is part of the "base" and who isn't.

Because the Kyoani base is exclusive only to people who like all their products. Haruhi fans? Not part of the base. FMP fans? Not part of the base. Oh but you like K-ON! and Nichijou? You must be!

I realize you're not saying this exactly, but the insinuation is there.

[LC]

Looks great! I hope there's a reason though for all the focus on Eru's eyes. lol

[zeniselv]

i really dont have anything against nichijou, it just wasnt the kind of humor i like, but k-on... i actually watched the whole first season as boring as it was because of the good reputation kyoani had over their past productions, but the plost was girls creating a club just for the hell of it and driving a talented young girl into mediocrity, and personally that was a waste of good animation, wich i gotta say from the few wpisodes of S2 i watched, was excellent.

[Ithekro]

Well, if could be a mystery as to why they are purple.


They've improved on the eye reflections. They used that a few times on Nagato Yuki in the first season of Haruhi. Seem like they have even more depth now...even without 3D.

(Can you imagine a KyoAni film in 3D?)

Still. The title of the novel seems ominous. (Hyou-ka: You can't escape)

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Cool you can put words in my mouth.

No, that was just poor wording on my part. Does it make more sense if the 'and' is an 'or'?

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

People like Reckoner, Kaioshin, or the one or two people who hate everything from KyoAni that isn't Haruhi S3 or Little Busters hardly count as the majority of their "base".

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Because the Kyoani base is exclusive only to people who like all their products. Haruhi fans? Not part of the base. FMP fans? Not part of the base. Oh but you like K-ON! and Nichijou? You must be!

I realize you're not saying this exactly, but the insinuation is there.

Actually, that's why I put "base" in quotation marks. I don't know how people are defining the term. I don't even know who Guardian Enzo was referring to. If you want to present your opinion on what a "base" is, go ahead.

For me, though, the insinuation is more than there. My opinion is that their base is exclusive to the people who like the majority of their products. I don't see how liking one or two of their older franchises would place you in their "base", much like how I don't see how liking, say, Rinne no Lagrange would place someone in the Production IG "base" or how liking Sora wo Kakeru Shoujo would place someone in the Sunrise "base".

Edit: Actually, if you want to continue this conversation, do you want to take it to PMs? I don't really intend to have this discussion for a while, but this discussion definitely isn't about Hyouka.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Proto

This is my reply to all the people who are nagging a series that hasn't even aired.

That was more entertaining than the trailer. But yea, all we have to go is the trailer, and thus the comments are done there.

I just don't think it did a good job of really advertising anything besides how well kyoani can draw stuff, but then water is also wet. In any case, it didn't scream "ZOmgz watch me". But then again, I don't remember any of their trailers were any good. Maybe Disappearance, but that still didn't go "Holy crap I must watch!" I think those 30 second long Clannad commercials were more convincing. :3

[com_gwp]

Holy What The F*** Mother Of- That PV.

How the hell does Kyoani get the funding to do things like this?

[Ithekro]

Tuition from their animation school?

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by com_gwp

Holy What The F*** Mother Of- That PV.

How the hell does Kyoani get the funding to do things like this?

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Tuition from their animation school?

That's part of it. In many of the projects that KyoAni has undertaken, they've been more of a partner than other animation studios. This allows them to be able to sell merchandise through their own store rather than have a third party like Cospa or Good Smile make money selling their products. They also sell copies of BD/DVDs through their own store with extras often. For example, if you bought a volume of K-On!, you would get a mini booklet with background art and original images. Given the success that they've had with past works, it's also probable that they would also receive a higher than normal animation budget for a show.

Another new source of income would be their literature division. They would make money from the sales of their novels, especially after one will be animated. Given that the KyoAni Shop! doesn't report to Oricon, we cannot tell how many each novel sells.

They're in a unique position relative to the majority of anime studios in funding sources. I've not researched in depth, but I'm confident that they (and maybe Gainax for Eva) are the only one(s) to have their own merchandise.

Edit: to get on track, I'm eager to see what type of merchandise they release for Hyouka. I hope the posters look nice.

[brocko]

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

Edit: to get on track, I'm eager to see what type of merchandise they release for Hyouka. I hope the posters look nice.

Eyeballs. Purple eyeballs, Green eyeballs, Red eyeballs and Orange eyeballs. They will make millions and millions of Yen off selling these eyeballs

I'm sure the preview would've been more engaging had the Narrator been understandable though. Still don't exactly know anymore about the setting or the characters after that preview which I'm sure was suppose to give you some idea

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Kunagisa

I'm speechless at this.

I'm all for criticisms but seriously guys? If I want to bash a series without actually knowing what I'm talking about I would be at 4chan and not here (despite 4chan quite often than not have more informative posts that here nowadays ...)

His KyoAni cynicism does get a bit tiresome, can't you at least save the vitriol for until you've watched the first episode?

[Pocari_Sweat]

I can't say what the other critics are saying about this, but my criticism is soley based on the PV given to us. It was dead boring... as simple as that. And it wasn't the most amazing, speechless animation (though it was well animated) either let alone the character designs and background art which were either unimpressive or "standard". The PV just did a bad job of selling whatever the show is supposed to be about. You know it's bad when a lot of the positive comments seem to be in regarding "dem purple eyes".

To give an illustrated comparison, here's two PVs from two studios which I think frankly do a better job than Kyoani does when it comes to promoting material:

Guilty Crown PV
Hanasaku Iroha PV

I donno... when I saw these two PVs back in the day I was like "DO WANT TO WATCH", unlike this Hyouka one which was just ZZZZZZ to me. And honestly, even just "animation" wise (frames - yes I know what animation is), the Hyouka one isn't even better. In terms of background art and character designs, hands down Hyouka loses. Atmosphere and what it's trying to sell? Hands down Hyouka loses.

Of course, in the end Guilty Crown has flopped and Hanasaku Iroha had its fair share of filler eps, but that's not my point. My point is that the Hyouka PV is not impressive at all. Whether the show is good or not will depend on when it actually airs. We'll probably get one or two more PV's after this one, and people will judge when that time comes. On the other hand I do think "past history of a studio" is not completely irrelevant to what people thinks on what a show will be like since Kyoani has done very little outside of a "slice of life/moe" demography (which they are [in]famous for), not to mention Kyoani does very little shows in the first place.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

I can't say what the other critics are saying about this, but my criticism is soley based on the PV given to us. It was dead boring... as simple as that.

I think that your criticism (And the criticism of almost everyone else in this thread) was perfectly fair, actually; I just thought Kaioshin's post was a bit much. That was so many preemptive conclusions he jumped to that I'm surprised he didn't say the show has a crappy ending while he's at it. :p

[HasuMasu]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

I think that your criticism (And the criticism of almost everyone else in this thread) was perfectly fair, actually; I just thought Kaioshin's post was a bit much. That was so many preemptive conclusions he jumped to that I'm surprised he didn't say the show has a crappy ending while he's at it.

I'm sure it just slipped his mind.

[zeniselv]

i think some of us arent worried about the pv, since those sometimes dont show anything and a lot of cases mislead, for instance i wouldnt have checked madoka magica if it was from the PV, the thing is apparently the ones who know the source material of this said it was boring, and yeah it was award winner, but so was k-on.

[Eater of All]

I was wondering how 4 pages of thread could develop in less than 24 hours, but I just realized how much of an idiot I am. I forgot this is a KyoAni show! Of course after a PV release (or any tiny bit of new info really), the normal folks would express their natural excitement or criticism, and the usual gang of KyoAni critics would come and 1) lament sorrowfully how disappointed they are, 2) proceed to predict a boring/shitty show, and 3) emphasize for the 1284th time how KyoAni is so totally not a good studio. The cycle would be complete when KyoAni-critic-critics (like me ) join in and start calling out on the critics, leading the thread to spiral into a haze of strawman-picking and off-topic crap. Only in a KyoAni-related thread!

And before the obligatory "but... but... we have the right to criticize!!!", yeah you do, just keep the generic whining about how KyoAni is a shit studio or K-On sux or pity for the studio's "untapped potential" to yourself for more than 10 seconds.

In case a mod comes in and deletes my post for OT, let me say first for the trailer: great animation. It doesn't reveal much, especially since I can't understand moonrunes or moonspeak, but it does make me curious how the mystery stuff may possibly be handled.

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

I can't say what the other critics are saying about this, but my criticism is soley based on the PV given to us. It was dead boring... as simple as that. And it wasn't the most amazing, speechless animation (though it was well animated) either let alone the character designs and background art which were either unimpressive or "standard". The PV just did a bad job of selling whatever the show is supposed to be about. You know it's bad when a lot of the positive comments seem to be in regarding "dem purple eyes".

To give an illustrated comparison, here's two PVs from two studios which I think frankly do a better job than Kyoani does when it comes to promoting material:

Guilty Crown PV
Hanasaku Iroha PV

I donno... when I saw these two PVs back in the day I was like "DO WANT TO WATCH", unlike this Hyouka one which was just ZZZZZZ to me. And honestly, even just "animation" wise (frames - yes I know what animation is), the Hyouka one isn't even better. In terms of background art and character designs, hands down Hyouka loses. Atmosphere and what it's trying to sell? Hands down Hyouka loses.

>Citing a PV from an action series
>Citing a PV from a lively teen slice of life series
>Criticizing "atmosphere and what it's trying to sell" when the first episode hasn't even aired yet

Come now, if you think it's boring, you don't need to make irrelevent justifications for it (intentionally or unintentionally). It's boring for you. Got it.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Eater of All

>Citing a PV from an action series
>Citing a PV from a lively teen slice of life series
>Criticizing "atmosphere and what it's trying to sell" when the first episode hasn't even aired yet

Come now, if you think it's boring, you don't need to make irrelevent justifications for it (intentionally or unintentionally). It's boring for you. Got it.

And how is it irrelevant? You tell me what that PV shows us then, cause I don't get any mystery vibes from it whatsoever. Seems like a slice of life series with some inappropriate baroque period music in the background. And no I have not and don't intend to read the source material. It doesn't even have a Bungaku Shojo feel which I was expecting it to have (or the sugary "moe-moe" lighthearted atmosphere that Kyoani apparently "excels" at).

And my main reason for linking "high-profile" PVs from different studios/works is to rebut the argument that Kyoani is somehow untouched in the animation department, not just because it seemed boring (which it was for me).

Never said Hyouka sucks. It just doesn't look amazingly impressive even from a visual point of view.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

I can't say what the other critics are saying about this, but my criticism is soley based on the PV given to us. It was dead boring... as simple as that. And it wasn't the most amazing, speechless animation (though it was well animated) either let alone the character designs and background art which were either unimpressive or "standard". The PV just did a bad job of selling whatever the show is supposed to be about. You know it's bad when a lot of the positive comments seem to be in regarding "dem purple eyes".

To give an illustrated comparison, here's two PVs from two studios which I think frankly do a better job than Kyoani does when it comes to promoting material:

Guilty Crown PV
Hanasaku Iroha PV

I donno... when I saw these two PVs back in the day I was like "DO WANT TO WATCH", unlike this Hyouka one which was just ZZZZZZ to me. And honestly, even just "animation" wise (frames - yes I know what animation is), the Hyouka one isn't even better. In terms of background art and character designs, hands down Hyouka loses. Atmosphere and what it's trying to sell? Hands down Hyouka loses.

Of course, in the end Guilty Crown has flopped and Hanasaku Iroha had its fair share of filler eps, but that's not my point. My point is that the Hyouka PV is not impressive at all. Whether the show is good or not will depend on when it actually airs. We'll probably get one or two more PV's after this one, and people will judge when that time comes. On the other hand I do think "past history of a studio" is not completely irrelevant to what people thinks on what a show will be like since Kyoani has done very little outside of a "slice of life/moe" demography (which they are [in]famous for), not to mention Kyoani does very little shows in the first place.

Well it's just a PV. I means what if the PV looks fabulous, but the content is simply suck just like Hanasaku Iroha *dodge shoes*

I means anime tends to get a pass even if the PV and 1st episode is dead boring. Madoka for example got the impression of yay, cute magical girls struggle to save the world from evil alien. Watched for Aoki Ume's drawing at first. Then soon enough my head exploded with all of the theme behind those cute arts. I means at some points i seriously lose my heads over all events happened
ok that's enough puns

[Ithekro]

What I got was the the PV introduced us to the main characters and show us the primary state of the male lead. Lazy. Indifferent. Bored in general. The lazy, bored narration seems to contrast the seeming energetic motions of the female main character, and the characteristics of the other two characters. Eru always seems to have some sort of energy in her motions from what I see. The male lead does seem like his voice. He seems bored and indifferent to what is going on.

Since I can't read it, nor understand what was said, I cannot delve deeper into any of these ideas.

Though I can say he didn't sound like Tomoya at all in the PV.

[Eater of All]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

And how is it irrelevant? You tell me what that PV shows us then, cause I don't get any mystery vibes from it whatsoever. Seems like a slice of life series with some inappropriate baroque period music in the background.

I see your "slice of life series with some inappropriate baroque period music in the background" and raise you a "that's why it '[makes] me curious how the mystery stuff may possibly be handled'".

No, spare the effort of responding to my reasoning and prolonging an irrelevent discussion that can basically be summed up as "we look at different things in a PV."

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

And my main reason for linking "high-profile" PVs from different studios/works is to rebut the argument that Kyoani is somehow untouched in the animation department, not just because it seemed boring (which it was for me).

My bad, from the way you worded your post, I thought the animation part was a sidenote! In respect of that then, I think I have the duty to comment that I found Hyouka's animation better than the ones shown in the GC and Hanasaku trailer, although the latter's art is certainly very pretty. But alas, I'm no animation expert. Just my humble opinion.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

What I got was the the PV introduced us to the main characters and show us the primary state of the male lead. Lazy. Indifferent. Bored in general. The lazy, bored narration seems to contrast the seeming energetic motions of the female main character, and the characteristics of the other two characters. Eru always seems to have some sort of energy in her motions from what I see. The male lead does seem like his voice. He seems bored and indifferent to what is going on.

Since I can't read it, nor understand what was said, I cannot delve deeper into any of these ideas.

Though I can say he didn't sound like Tomoya at all in the PV.

Yeah, I literally went wtf when I saw "Yuuichi Nakamura."