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Old 2022-01-18, 03:54   Link #41
Ghostfriendly
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
It's not a matter of saving money or anything like that. It's not outright stated but it's made pretty clear that Akebi's mother's work involves clothes or fashion. She mentions that she'd always admired her mother's work while we see her making the uniform. I'd say it's very obvious that she didn't make the uniform for monetary purposes or any other "practical" reason. She made it because her daughter wanted to wear a uniform her mother made, designed to match the one her mother wore.
That's very plausibly what the series was going for, but it's too specific and unconvincing. A lot more justification is needed as to their caring so much about uniforms, when manga readers with excessive nostalgia or a fetish are likely to care more about uniforms in themselves than typical students.
Likewise, the students will typically care little about their parents schooldays, without a specific reason, and far less than that about the uniforms they wore, which really have nothing to do with how hard their parents worked. The mother being a seamstress of some kind is actually not a bad reason, but inadequate in itself and not really developed by the show itself.

The strongest reasoning is that the uniform of an exclusive school carries value; not even necessarily from snobbishness, but representing the mother's hard work to get in, and fit in, with the rich kids. The anime even gives a single conversation on this theme, but with no parallels in the girl's own idol-worshipping situation, no real academic or social ambitions of her own beyond the bog-basic 'make friends', and no development of the theme, we're essentially expected to bele that she wants a sailor fuku because that's what Japanese schoolgirls wear, duh. This is something Taisho Baseball Girls effortless justified, with the sailor fuku in the 1920s standing for social change and modernity.

The principal sickeningly recalling her mother making her uniform particularly shows that excessive sentimentality has more to do with the premise of the show than psychological likihood.

Last edited by Ghostfriendly; 2022-01-18 at 04:33.
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Old 2022-01-18, 11:49   Link #42
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Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly View Post
That's very plausibly what the series was going for, but it's too specific and unconvincing. A lot more justification is needed as to their caring so much about uniforms, when manga readers with excessive nostalgia or a fetish are likely to care more about uniforms in themselves than typical students.
Likewise, the students will typically care little about their parents schooldays, without a specific reason, and far less than that about the uniforms they wore, which really have nothing to do with how hard their parents worked. The mother being a seamstress of some kind is actually not a bad reason, but inadequate in itself and not really developed by the show itself.

The strongest reasoning is that the uniform of an exclusive school carries value; not even necessarily from snobbishness, but representing the mother's hard work to get in, and fit in, with the rich kids. The anime even gives a single conversation on this theme, but with no parallels in the girl's own idol-worshipping situation, no real academic or social ambitions of her own beyond the bog-basic 'make friends', and no development of the theme, we're essentially expected to bele that she wants a sailor fuku because that's what Japanese schoolgirls wear, duh. This is something Taisho Baseball Girls effortless justified, with the sailor fuku in the 1920s standing for social change and modernity.

The principal sickeningly recalling her mother making her uniform particularly shows that excessive sentimentality has more to do with the premise of the show than psychological likihood.
First off, what's your point going on about it being "because people like sailor suits"? What does that matter? It's obvious, like saying that a particular sport manga is about a guy who wants to become a baseball player because there's a big audience that likes baseball, or because the author him/herself likes the game. You're not saying anything by saying that the author's motivation for why they chose that particular outfit is based on their own interests/nostalgia/aesthetic/fetish or what they believe the audience would like.

More to the point, what do you mean about it being "too specific" an explanation? The show itself directly stated that this is what she was thinking. Why do you need some incredibly deep justification for the situation? The show makes it very clear that the mother is great at sewing and Akebi admires her, and that she's very knowledgeable and dedicated (given both her expertise and the amount of time she dedicates to making the uniform). How much more development do you need in the second episode that wasn't made clear in the first?

And sure, there are a lot of students who don't give a crap about what their parents do, much less admire their work. But that doesn't mean it's anywhere near universal. There's also lots of kids that greatly admire their parents, have and want to keep a strong relationship with them and take a great delight in their parents' work. All the more so when they haven't hit that age where they start obsessing with individuating themselves from their folks (for instance, a twelve-year-old like Akebi). And Akebi would be even more attached to her parents because up until now she hasn't had friends to get close to. She was the only girl her age, and it looks like there might not have been more than one or two other kids period given that she played alone. For her, her social life was Kao and her parents, so of course she's going to care a lot about them.

Also, what the heck are you talking about, suggesting that the "best reasoning" for her to want to wear a sailor uniform is its "status" or "value" as something from a rich girls' school? Seriously that doesn't make any sense. As I said before, she's TWELVE. She couldn't care less about prestige, and the one part where its prestige is mentioned it's clear she didn't know when she chose the school and now only cares because it makes her apprehensive about her efforts to make friends.

Seriously, I don't get half of what you're saying, and what I do get seems to be addressing things I wasn't even talking about. I wasn't trying to discuss anything meta, and certainly wasn't trying to bring anything logical into it since there clearly wasn't any logic, or really any NEED for logic, in the decision. Akebi wanted to wear a sailor uniform because her mother used to wear one, and because the idol she adores (enough to memorize moves in her music videos) captivated her in a performance wearing one. She wanted her mother to make one because she'd always loved her mother's work. After finding out about the blazer she chose to go with the uniform for a broad range of reasons, such as a feeling like she has a responsibility to wear it after getting her mother to work so hard, a desire to not disappoint her baby sister, and simple stubbornness, then excused with the idea that she might use the way she stands out to make more friends. Her mother made it because it's what the girl wanted. That's all there is to it, it's made plenty clear in the show, and there's no need to look for something weird like the "value" in a hand-made uniform.
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Old 2022-01-18, 12:13   Link #43
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Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly View Post
That's very plausibly what the series was going for, but it's too specific and unconvincing. A lot more justification is needed as to their caring so much about uniforms
I disagree. Akebi wanted to wear a sailor uniform because her favorite idol wore one in a commercial, and wanted it to be made by her mother because her mother works making clothes and Akebi admires her work. That's all the justification needed considered Akebi is a 12 year-old kid, and kids of that age behave like that. They want to wear the same clothes their idols wear and whatnot. It's totally normal.
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Old 2022-01-18, 13:11   Link #44
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I disagree. Akebi wanted to wear a sailor uniform because her favorite idol wore one in a commercial, and wanted it to be made by her mother because her mother works making clothes and Akebi admires her work. That's all the justification needed considered Akebi is a 12 year-old kid, and kids of that age behave like that. They want to wear the same clothes their idols wear and whatnot. It's totally normal.
I can see that she admires her mother, although it's less understandable that she should admire her particularly than if it were, say, Madoka's mother. It's the expression of admiration through her school uniform, even if her Mum is a seamstress, as I mentioned, that I find an unjustified stretch. Why specifically admire her mother as a schoolgirl? Because she worked especially hard to get into an elite school and fit in with the rich girls, which we hear about? Because she was happy as only a storybook schoolgirl can be, which we don't? In a decent show, a uniform could represent these things to Akebi, especially if her mother were much worse off now than as a schoolgirl, but she isn't, and it isn't so developed. I don't disagree that Akebi's idol motivated her to wear a sailor fuku; I was considering better possible reasons than something so shallow and ridiculous. Anime teenagers are capable of tempestuous passion and self-sacrifice, funny and charming friendship, overcoming great problems and learning new things as they grow up. Akebi seems unlikely to do any of this very well, going by the first episode

I had a look on this thread in order to find any more convincing school uniform motivations that anyone could suggest. Everyone has been very helpful with that; the multiplicity of unconvincing reasons seems to indicate, of course, that the creator simply wanted to draw school uniforms without exploring any real associated values such as belonging and exclusivity.

A story about a devoted daughter expressing her admiration normally, by helping her single mother with work, or learning to become a designer herself, would have fed into real struggle and character development. Superficial and unconsidered motivations may be plausible for a very vapid twelve year old, but they're not the premise of a teen drama worth watching.

Last edited by Ghostfriendly; 2022-01-18 at 14:53.
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Old 2022-01-18, 13:30   Link #45
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I can see that she admires her mother, although it's less understandable that she should admire her particularly than if it were, say, Madoka's mother. It's the expression of admiration through her school uniform, even if her Mum is a seamstress, as I mentioned, that I find an unjustified stretch. Why specifically admire her mother as a schoolgirl? Because she worked especially hard to get into an elite school and fit in with the rich girls, which we hear about? Because she was happy as only a storybook schoolgirl can be, which we don't? In a decent show, a uniform could represent these things to Akebi, especially if her mother were much worse off now than as a schoolgirl, but she isn't, and it isn't so developed. I don't disagree that Akebi's idol motivated her to wear a sailor fuku; I was considering better possible reasons than something so shallow and ridiculous. Anime teenagers are capable of tempestuous passion and self-sacrifice, spirited and charming friendship, overcoming great problems and learning new things as they grow up. Akebi seems unlikely to do any of this very well, and it's simply not good enough.

A story about a devoted daughter expressing her admiration normally, by helping her single mother with work, or learning to become a designer herself, would have fed into real struggle and character development. Superficial and unconsidered motivations may be plausible for a very vapid twelve year old, but they're not the premise of a teen drama worth watching.
It's not that she admired her mother as a schoolgirl. It's the whole package. Just think about it for a second. She's so crazy about Miki that a commercial's enough to have her rolling in her bed screaming "so cute!". Then she sees in a photo album that her mother used to wear a uniform that's a very close match to the adorable outfit Miki wore in that CM, and realizes that she wore it because it was the uniform to a school her mother attended and that she could attend too in a couple months as long as she worked hard enough. Why wouldn't she be excited? She admires her mother, and she admires her idol, and she's gotten a chance to wear an outfit that both wore. I'd say her mother wearing the uniform was a part, as she'd get to walk in her beloved mother's footsteps, but a very big part was the fact that she'd be dressing like her idol. The admiration of her mother came out more in having her make it herself.

Basically, it looks like you're complaining because this isn't something it never claimed to be, never tried to be, just because you want it to be that. You might as well complain about the original Ghostbusters because they keep cracking jokes when a more serious attitude would've contributed to a serious horror story. If you insist that something should be something it never tried to be, of course you're going to be disappointed. If you want a "teen drama", then go elsewhere. This is a fun, light-hearted show about twelve-year-old girls who are just as shallow and superficial as their age would suggest.
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Old 2022-01-18, 15:22   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly View Post
Akebi's idol motivated her to wear a sailor fuku; I was considering better possible reasons than something so shallow and ridiculous.
She's a kid, dude. Kids' motivations are supposed to be shallow and trivial. That's what it means to be a kid. Kids don't have deep and thoughtful motivations.
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Old 2022-01-18, 16:43   Link #47
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She's a kid, dude. Kids' motivations are supposed to be shallow and trivial. That's what it means to be a kid. Kids don't have deep and thoughtful motivations.
Even if kids aren't slaying witches or escaping arranged marriages to run Fortune 500 interstellar travel companies, simple motivations don't have to be shallow. Six year old Renge from Non Non Biyori has more profundity in her little finger
than Akebi ever displays. If this was an anime about Akebi's relationship with her mother, or her search for friends, or her academic progress and personal development, it could be very good, if well written. What it leads off with front and centre is the superficial school uniform, and the universally acknowledged stupidity of the wrong school uniform. It doesn't effectively represent anything deeper, it doesn't have potential for turning Akebi's shallow or simple ideas into complex ones as she learns about the world. Any well-written schoolgirl friendships that turn up with the second ep, or any characters worth hearing about, will be a departure from the first episode that I won't be sticking around for.
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Old 2022-01-18, 18:56   Link #48
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Even if kids aren't slaying witches or escaping arranged marriages to run Fortune 500 interstellar travel companies, simple motivations don't have to be shallow. Six year old Renge from Non Non Biyori has more profundity in her little finger
than Akebi ever displays. If this was an anime about Akebi's relationship with her mother, or her search for friends, or her academic progress and personal development, it could be very good, if well written. What it leads off with front and centre is the superficial school uniform, and the universally acknowledged stupidity of the wrong school uniform. It doesn't effectively represent anything deeper, it doesn't have potential for turning Akebi's shallow or simple ideas into complex ones as she learns about the world. Any well-written schoolgirl friendships that turn up with the second ep, or any characters worth hearing about, will be a departure from the first episode that I won't be sticking around for.
Once again, you're not mad about this being a bad show, you're mad that it doesn't show some incredibly deep, profound motivations that wouldn't fit in the very first episode. And you're throwing BS in along with it, because while I haven't watched all of NNB, I have watched some and I know that none of the characters were given any more depth than Akebi in the first two episodes. It's not some deep drama, it's a casual slice of life, and they didn't see fit to give her some profound background fitting of a complex drama straight from the start. I, personally, am glad they didn't because the sort of things you're insisting have to be there for it to be worth a second of your time would be really jarring and not fit with the more lighthearted atmosphere of the story. Doesn't mean we won't get any drama later on, or people with complex relationships with their parents, but there's no point starting out with that when that's not what the focus is. The beginning is supposed to set the mood, and what you suggest just doesn't fit. Honestly, I'm surprised you sat through NNB if you need so much deep struggle and conflict in order for things to be entertaining.
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Old 2022-01-18, 21:08   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly View Post

The principal sickeningly recalling her mother making her uniform particularly shows that excessive sentimentality has more to do with the premise of the show than psychological likihood.
"Excessive sentimentality"... Yeah, this show probably isn't for you.

After 2 episodes, it's pretty clear that sentimentality is a big part of this show. And I think sentimentality is one of those elements (like nostalgia) that either clicks with a viewer or it doesn't. It usually clicks with me, but it looks doubtful it'll click for you here.


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She's a kid, dude. Kids' motivations are supposed to be shallow and trivial. That's what it means to be a kid. Kids don't have deep and thoughtful motivations.
Agreed. And for some viewers, that's the charm of a show like this. In other words, it's a feature not a bug, for some of us. It can be nice to leave behind anything even resembling our own real world concerns to enjoy entertainment where the most intense issues at play is wearing a beloved outfit and trying to make friends.
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Old 2022-01-18, 21:33   Link #50
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I wonder if komichi have eidetic memory or is pretty smart even with her being so silly. She didn't need cram school for the exam unlike the other girls and it seems she memorized the faces and names of all her classmates.
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Old 2022-01-19, 20:06   Link #51
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Once again, you're not mad about this being a bad show, you're mad that it doesn't show some incredibly deep, profound motivations that wouldn't fit in the very first episode. And you're throwing BS in along with it, because while I haven't watched all of NNB, I have watched some and I know that none of the characters were given any more depth than Akebi in the first two episodes. It's not some deep drama, it's a casual slice of life, and they didn't see fit to give her some profound background fitting of a complex drama straight from the start. I, personally, am glad they didn't because the sort of things you're insisting have to be there for it to be worth a second of your time would be really jarring and not fit with the more lighthearted atmosphere of the story. Doesn't mean we won't get any drama later on, or people with complex relationships with their parents, but there's no point starting out with that when that's not what the focus is. The beginning is supposed to set the mood, and what you suggest just doesn't fit. Honestly, I'm surprised you sat through NNB if you need so much deep struggle and conflict in order for things to be entertaining.
Non Non Biyori's characters were simple, but they cared about far deeper things than school uniforms, and succeeded in expressing deeper values where this show absolutely fails, because their expressions were natural. The school uniform that this series destroys itself with, by putting it centre stage, successfully represents nothing but the stupidity, superficiality and sentimentality that this anime seems devoted to glorifying as virtues. Wheras Non Non Biyori successfully celebrated humour, friendship, community, childhood innocence and growth, none of which are presented here in any worthwhile manner.
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Old 2022-01-19, 21:32   Link #52
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Non Non Biyori's characters were simple, but they cared about far deeper things than school uniforms, and succeeded in expressing deeper values where this show absolutely fails, because their expressions were natural. The school uniform that this series destroys itself with, by putting it centre stage, successfully represents nothing but the stupidity, superficiality and sentimentality that this anime seems devoted to glorifying as virtues. Wheras Non Non Biyori successfully celebrated humour, friendship, community, childhood innocence and growth, none of which are presented here in any worthwhile manner.
I don't think it's fair to compare Non-Non Biyori (2 seasons, released with fully developed plot and characters) with Akebi-chan (2 eps.) Try giving another example.
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Old 2022-01-20, 00:56   Link #53
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Non Non Biyori's characters were simple, but they cared about far deeper things than school uniforms, and succeeded in expressing deeper values where this show absolutely fails, because their expressions were natural. The school uniform that this series destroys itself with, by putting it centre stage, successfully represents nothing but the stupidity, superficiality and sentimentality that this anime seems devoted to glorifying as virtues. Wheras Non Non Biyori successfully celebrated humour, friendship, community, childhood innocence and growth, none of which are presented here in any worthwhile manner.
You're obsessing over the uniform even more than the show does. It's not like her entire existence revolves around the thing. She liked it and wanted to wear it for shallow reasons, which is pretty normal for a twelve-year-old girl's choice in clothes, and then when the whole thing had been made she found out about the uniform change, which made the whole thing much more complicated. It's not as "center stage" as you insist it is. It's the gimmick, sure, but it's not like the universe revolves around the outfit for the outfit's own sake. You're so caught up on her liking the uniform that you can't see everything else that's going on and really motivating things up to and including her decision to actually keep the uniform. And again, you're demanding an incredible amount of depth and meaning in the first two episodes. As I said, in NNB we didn't get that level of depth in two episodes either. You're looking for the sort of early development you'd see in a DRAMA. This is not a drama. It's a light-hearted iyashikei slice of life. Don't go complaining nonstop about how "bad" it is just because it doesn't try to be something it was never meant to be.
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Old 2022-01-20, 03:30   Link #54
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I don't think it's fair to compare Non-Non Biyori (2 seasons, released with fully developed plot and characters) with Akebi-chan (2 eps.) Try giving another example.
We can go further than the 3 ep rule; if a typical show makes such a systematic pig's breakfast of its first episode we can expect it to do the same with the rest of its run. The art is lavish, I grant, but it isn't a style I like, or an aspect that could possibly make up for the story.
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Old 2022-01-20, 09:55   Link #55
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We can go further than the 3 ep rule; if a typical show makes such a systematic pig's breakfast of its first episode we can expect it to do the same with the rest of its run. The art is lavish, I grant, but it isn't a style I like, or an aspect that could possibly make up for the story.
I don't think we were watching the same show the way you talk about it and act like it's nothing but "sailor suit sailor suit sailor suit..."

In the first episode, we see her excited to wear a sailor suit, yes, and eager to have it made. We also see her worrying about her mother and how much she's making her work as she starts to do anything she can to help to lighten her "burden" (clearly far beyond what's necessary given her face). We see how caught up in her home life she is, and how far out in the sticks she is. We hear her worries about whether she'll be able to fit in and make friends, and how she hasn't had any friends up to now due to location. There's tons of hopes leading up to entering this new school, and the sailor suit is just one part of it, even if she is enthusiastic about that part too. Then it all comes crashing down upon the realization that she'd just had her mother work day and night to make the wrong uniform, and even if she's allowed to wear it this doesn't change the fact that she'll stand out. She's scared, worried, but decides to wear her mother's outfit and see it more as a chance to be noticed and break the ice than a risk of looking out of place. It's not a brilliant opening, but it is a very good one, and very appropriate to the show we're watching, a show where that one outfit plays a big role, but most certainly is not the central point of everyone's attention.
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Old 2022-01-22, 18:02   Link #56
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Akebi-chan's sailor uniform? More like Akebi-chan's yuri harem. She's conquering one girl after another, and even got one to sent her lewd pictures of herself. A total seductress!

And I don't know if it's the author or the director but someone really does have a huge foot fetish.
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Old 2022-01-22, 21:24   Link #57
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yeah this is a yuri harem I can get behind. I already like the legs girl closet pervert.
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Old 2022-01-22, 23:55   Link #58
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Ghostfriendly still trying to be the ideological thought police in every thread Claiming to be for Social Justice but advocating draconian authoritarian means to enforce their ideology? They've completely drunk on their Kool-AId. Mods haven't done anything about it?

Last edited by deadite; 2022-01-23 at 00:10.
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Old 2022-01-23, 01:54   Link #59
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where the episode 3 talk?

anyway
episode 3

nice armpit shot to start off.

For a few secs during the middle of the episode, thought I was suddenly watching an episode of Attack on Titan.

Overall, seems like a bunch of school girls with certain personality quirks just learning to socialize thru their younger teen years. But the way its presented makes it more interesting than it should be at times.

Definitely laughed at Kei going overboard with selfies. I totally get the outer persona in public being the good behaving student, looking like she has everything in order. And the contrast in private she has her own self conscious thoughts and just as prone to 'freaking out' as any other student her age.

is it on purpose that on close ups and other moments, the faces look really fine and clear.
But anytime the camera is a distance away or showing people on a side angle, the faces all look so derpy and feels like its missing a few contour lines.
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Old 2022-01-23, 20:21   Link #60
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Spoiler for ep3:
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