(L) Girls und Panzer

[Zaku_II]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

In any case, I have made a characters/seiyuus page for this show. Not my usual, with pics and info about the seiyuus, since there are so many of them in the show that the page would get so long as to be inconvenient. Just a pic of each character and a link to info about their seiyuu. I find it useful for keeping people straight, too. It's based on the main characters page on the official site.

Our next opponent, the American school, features seiyuu work from Kawasumi Ayako, Ise Mariya and...Hirano Aya!

Kaiser should be Caesar (both words means emperor) for Julius Cesare

I was surprised when I saw the names of the Team D-First Year, the six of them had names of the Nadeshiko Japan footbal team (women's national team) FIFA World Champions in 2011 and silver medal in London 2012. They are:

Homare SAWA: Number 10 central midfielder, captain of the team. Best player of the world 2011.
Nozomi YAMAGO: Number 1 reserve goalkeeper.
Karina MARUYAMA: Number 18 reserve forward, she scored the legendary goal against Germany in extra time.
Mizuho SAKAGUCHI: Number 6 central midfielder.
Rumi UTSUGI: Number 13 reserve central midfielder.
Shinobu OHNO: Number 11 forward (but in the world cup she played as right midfielder)

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by sandhy88

After rewatch again, there is statement of darjeeling:
"We refuse to fight in vulgar manner like Sanders or Pravda."
As we can see from OP that Sanders battle at the beach and Pravda at the snow. Can Anyone tell from that what kind strategy Pravda use?
Last year Pravda win agains Black Forest who consist Maho as Captain and Miho as Vice and stop their 9th consecutive win.
And it seem that Ourai will fight with Pravda at semi final.

The problem with figuring out what tactics Pravda uses is that Soviet tank doctrine is very much suborinated to their operational goals. They're not really about the 5 vs. 5 skirmishes the show uses. About the only part of it that will end up in the show is that the Soviet tanks will be used aggressively with little care for casualties, and that they might employ military deception.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry when our heroines carried the fight into the town. But the show had a good way of dealing with the practical problem: by invoking welcome insurance claims. This and the silly idea that you can send out kids in tanks and not have anyone really hurt did seem basically ridiculous, but they are well within the limits of my "willing suspension of disbelief."

That brief scene with the old shopkeeper was a stroke of genius - it answered so many questions that were begging for explanation. In a lesser show, there would have been 5-10 minutes of dry exposition instead.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

The one thing that makes me leery is that the show is a bit of a recruiting tool for the Japanese military. As someone with Chinese connections, any encouragement of Japanese militarism worries me. But that isn't going to stop me watching and enjoying.

I'm not very pleased with a lot of the Japanese chauvanism that's present in a lot of shows, but I think that Girls und Panzer is one of the least militaristic shows of this kind I've come across.

There are almost no "Nippon Banzai!" moments - the most identifiably Japanese element in the show is the Type 89, and the show itself thinks that it's junk. Even though all the "foreign" students are actually Japanese, they've been treated respectfully so far. And the most nationalistic element in the show has been "Battlehymn of the Republic". Even the streak of Nazi fetishism I expected to find has been largely restrained. In comparison, a show like Strike Witches seems to hit a lot more wrong notes.

Originally Posted by Tak

Never mind the fact that most Japanese military enthusiasts don't think too highly of their own WW2 tank designs. To most Japanese fans, German tanks are teh awesome pretty much by default.

If anyone is familiar with Japanese military manga set in WWII... a vast majority of them is about the individual German soldier.

- Tak

Or watch The Cockpit. Or Matsumoto Leiji in general. There really aren't a whole lot of Japanese tanks to love. They don't even have that "not very good, but they're still sort of fun" aspect to them.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Perhaps that is as close as they can get to glorifying their own exploits in WW2 without being seen to glorify them? Are there any Germans here who can say whether German comics deal directly with German exploits in WW2? I hasten to add that I think both countries, from a military point of view, were admirably effective.

I don't think that it has much to do with glorification. It's more to do with Japanese writers wanting to write about World War II, but that Japan's own experiences were mostly pretty horrible, so they write about their ally instead. That's a bit of a shame, but it might be for the best given how overly sentimental Japanese World War II live-action works get.

I can sort of agree when it comes to Germany, but Japan in World War II is almost the text-book example of "dysfunctional". There were even soldiers in the IJA who started wars against major powers without asking the government for permission!

Originally Posted by Tak

As for efficiency... I don't want to offend anyone here, but honestly, the standard of the Nationalist Army wasn't very high. Its not a wonder the Japanese Army appeared more efficient. The best Nationalist troops were the German trained divisions, most of which were lost due to attrition during the battle of Shanghai. They also had little to no tank support, with a majority of Chinese armored vehicles being of the Vickers or Panzer I variant.

The only reason that Chinese tanks aren't considered worse than Japanese ones is that no one associates tanks with World War II China at all. Not only did they not have their own designs, but they had almost no industry with which to build tanks. I think that the Japanese built more factories in Manchuria than the rest of China even had.

Originally Posted by Zaku_II

I was surprised when I saw the names of the Team D-First Year, the six of them had names of the Nadeshiko Japan footbal team (women's national team) FIFA World Champions in 2011 and silver medal in London 2012.

Haha. That's awesome.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Zaku_II

Kaiser should be Caesar (both words means emperor) for Julius Cesare....

Thanks. I didn't realize she was an ancient Rome otaku. Checked Japanese Wikipedia for confirmation.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Tak

...As for efficiency... I don't want to offend anyone here, but honestly, the standard of the Nationalist Army wasn't very high. Its not a wonder the Japanese Army appeared more efficient. The best Nationalist troops were the German trained divisions, most of which were lost due to attrition during the battle of Shanghai. They also had little to no tank support, with a majority of Chinese armored vehicles being of the Vickers or Panzer I variant....

Hard to take offense at the simple truth, especially one that I believe Chinese are painfully aware of and have been working for decades to set right. Any potential military conflict over the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands would be diffficult for China even now, since Japan apparently has a technological advantage at sea, particularly in command and control.

I'm not very knowledgeable about details of the Pacific War, so thanks for the info. I've long thought that both Germany and Japan were defeated as much by disparities in raw material supplies as anything else. Is this true?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I'm not very knowledgeable about details of the Pacific War, so thanks for the info. I've long thought that both Germany and Japan were defeated as much by disparities in raw material supplies as anything else. Is this true?

Allow me to quote (paraphrase) from a movie:

Col. Hessler: Do you know what this is?

Subordinate: Its a chocolate cake, sir.

Col. Hessler: A chocolate cake!

Subordinate: Yes sir?

Col. Hessler: They have the fuel and planes to fly Cake over the Atlantic Ocean!

Subordinate: ...

Col. Hessler: Do you know what this means?

- - - - -

Aside from obvious lack of materials, the Japanese military, as 4tran mentioned, was as dysfunctional as it could be. The Imperial Japanese Army was pretty much a glorified version of the Shogunate. Even though the Meiji restoration allegedly restored political power on the Japanese Emperor, a power he had lost since the 10th century, it was, in reality, the army who dominated much of foreign, domestic and military affairs. The Army appointed prime ministers, influenced foreign policies and attacked countries they weren't permitted to attack. Before long, they were involved in a number of theaters, without the proper war industry to back it up.

Admiral Yamamoto was a severe critic of the army, but due to protocol, he chose to follow orders, eventually leading to the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Even though all the "foreign" students are actually Japanese, they've been treated respectfully so far.

I appreciate that much more than national stereotypes that are often/still perpetuated by American media. At least they are treated as individuals rather than ethnic caricatures.

- Tak

[LoweGear]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/eCGeH09DHL4

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

That shop at the location where Team A got trapped by St. Gloriana and that shop where that Matilda crashed have GuP posters even.

And this link has more comparison pics, and even a route map of the path Team A took through the town from beginning to end.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I'm not very knowledgeable about details of the Pacific War, so thanks for the info. I've long thought that both Germany and Japan were defeated as much by disparities in raw material supplies as anything else. Is this true?

That's sort of true, but it's also nowhere near how the war played out. Germany did suffer resource shortages, but they didn't get acute until around 1944, and they'd already lost the war by then. Their only chance to win was to knock out the Soviet Union in 1942, but they failed, and the Red Army outfought them from that point on.

In Japan, a lack of resources was sort of the reason they got into the whole mess to begin with. The main problem for them was that they were stuck in an unwinnable war with China, and this colored every major decision made by the Japanese military forces. The Chinese armies were weak and ill-equipped, but the country was simply too large to completely occupy. Japanese troops could control the cities, but the countryside was unceasingly hostile.

The American, British and Dutch embargo placed on Japan in 1941 forced them to either give up the war in China or to seize those resources directly. The problem was that there was no way for Japan to fight and sustain the first war, and now they got into a war against a far stronger adversary. Japan didn't even have the shipping to transport the captured resources to begin with. The IJN was simply steamrollered by the USN, and no amount of resources would have helped them.

Originally Posted by Tak

Aside from obvious lack of materials, the Japanese military, as 4tran mentioned, was as dysfunctional as it could be. The Imperial Japanese Army was pretty much a glorified version of the Shogunate. Even though the Meiji restoration allegedly restored political power on the Japanese Emperor, a power he had lost since the 10th century, it was, in reality, the army who dominated much of foreign, domestic and military affairs. The Army appointed prime ministers, influenced foreign policies and attacked countries they weren't permitted to attack. Before long, they were involved in a number of theaters, without the proper war industry to back it up.

I suspect that one of the reasons why military organizations in anime work so strangely is that the creators are influenced by the IJA during the Showa era.

Originally Posted by Tak

I appreciate that much more than national stereotypes that are often/still perpetuated by American media. At least they are treated as individuals rather than ethnic caricatures.

- Tak

To be fair, there are a lot of anime that still go the caricature route.

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Are there any Germans here who can say whether German comics deal directly with German exploits in WW2?

I'm Austrian. I don't know any German military comics (though I suppose they exist) so I'm not the best person to ask. But I'd be very surprised to see any glorification or even romanticisation of WW II exploits in mainstream media. (In Austria, you'd risk breaking a law ["Wiederbetätigung"].) What I know of popular German (and Austrian) treatment of WW 2 is mostly movies and television. Most of it is about the genocide, and what isn't is usually a demonstration of how awful war is. [ETA: For example, Germany in Hetalia is way too friendly, from what you would expect over here in a similar treatment.]

Personally, I've grown up with a deep suspicion of any nationalism, or militarism. I had to quit watching Uppotte because of that after only one episode. I hate-hate-hated Muv-Luv's episode one (never saw more) because of the military streak. I get none of that from Girls und Panzer. It's too tongue-in-cheek.

[Tak]

Oh geez, you must really hate Act of Valor, then

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

[ETA: For example, Germany in Hetalia is way too friendly, from what you would expect over here in a similar treatment.

I think that goes for all countries involved, though.

But... it would appear Germany is indeed the most normal out of them all, and thats saying something.

I mean, every single time I see Germany popping on screen, it would appear the only thing he wanted was a friggin' vacation. A time off without having to deal with bullshit. You know, I can identify with that...

On the other hand, you have Motofumi Kobayashi, who is pretty much the premier mangaka when it comes to how awful wars could be, since most of his works involve the Eastern Front. Now, his works tend to make Hitler look stubborn and senile, but the focus is on individual German (and sometimes Finnish) soldiers. They can also be quite informative, for example... how to defrost frozen bread...

Originally Posted by LoweGear

And this link has more comparison pics, and even a route map of the path Team A took through the town from beginning to end.

Oh, impressive, and very nice renditions of the actual city itself.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

To be fair, there are a lot of anime that still go the caricature route.

I won't argue with that, but at least they do us a favor by being subtle about it. At least we don't often get a caricature speaking in a messed up accent, something we still do on mainstream, like CNN... of all places.

- Tak

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Tak

Hell, I say we take bets on which German marching music would be played when Maho shows up, eh?

It's not German in any way that I'm aware of, but I favor The Imperial March.

[Dop]

Originally Posted by Tak

Now, if you guys want a proper JSDF recruitment...

WARNING: MILDLY DISTURBING CONTENT!

- Tak (No, its not fake)

If you think that's bad, there is the tale that the US Navy once used the Village People song "in the Navy" as part of their recruiting campaign, although they dropped it soon after. For obvious reasons....!

[Dop]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

It's not German in any way that I'm aware of, but I favor The Imperial March.

No, our Queen has already claimed that one for her own.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

That would be "Battle Hymn Of The Republic".

Originally Posted by Tak

Battle Hymn of the Republic.

Hell, I say we take bets on which German marching music would be played when Maho shows up, eh?

- Tak

Thanks for the info.

With marching songs being used.
Feels like this anime is giving a mild history lesson (in a nice way).

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Battlehymn of the Republic:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/p5mmFPyDK_8

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

It's the perfect music to herald the defeat of the Republic's enemies. I'm not a big fan of most American military music, but I like this piece a lot.

Thanks for the youtube link on the Battle Hymn of the Republic, it's a really nice tune.
More impressed by Confederate millitary leaders than those of the Union in the civil war, but I guess a confederate marching song isn't something to be used to represent american tanks in G and P.

[PzIVf3]

Spoiler for Rommel and her crew:

I've long thought that both Germany defeated as much by disparities in raw material supplies as anything else. Is this true?

There are more reason why the German lost.

1. Facing three fronts : West, East and Italy
2. The mismanagement of handling Luftwaffe production.
3. No strategic aerial warfare. Ex. they did not developed 4 engine bomber to bomb Russia resources until 1943 its was too late.
4. Leadership. Ex. Goering fail to concentrate his forces against Fighter Command which led the Luftwaffe defeat in the Battle of Britain, Hitler took personnel command in the campaign in the East as a role tactician and change the plan diverting the Group Army Center toward South to create giant pincer envelopment. It was the biggest opportunity to capture Moscow which the Soviet reserve there have gone depleted.


I believe the German lost bec. of human error rather than technological failure.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

Spoiler for Rommel and her crew:

Hmm... so the girl with the closed eye is an archer.

No, our Queen has already claimed that one for her own.

An interesting choice. That piece of music always seems to me to be the perfect piece for the entrance of the villain.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

I hate-hate-hated Muv-Luv's episode one (never saw more) because of the military streak. I get none of that from Girls und Panzer. It's too tongue-in-cheek.

Slight OT here - Muv-Luv as a franchise is much bigger than Total Eclipse, and the focus in TE is less on the military and more on development of a new mecha while the main character, a test pilot with zero combat time, struggles with identity issues. It's a more personal story set against the backdrop of a war with aliens who want to eat everyone.

It also has a pair of tsundere who can admit when they are wrong.

Originally Posted by Dop

No, our Queen has already claimed that one for her own.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

An interesting choice. That piece of music always seems to me to be the perfect piece for the entrance of the villain.

As i recall, the Imperial March was played to welcome the king of Saudi Arabia on a state visit. I'm quite sure the Queen was aware of the stealth insult to the Saudi king. Apparently the Welsh Guards did not want to play any music to welcome the Saudi king, and did so under protest, manifested in this piece.

[wontaek]

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

There are more reason why the German lost.


4. Leadership. Ex. Goering fail to concentrate his forces against Fighter Command which led the Luftwaffe defeat in the Battle of Britain, Hitler took personnel command in the campaign in the East as a role tactician and change the plan diverting the Group Army Center toward South to create giant pincer envelopment. It was the biggest opportunity to capture Moscow which the Soviet reserve there have gone depleted.


I believe the German lost bec. of human error rather than technological failure.

Some recent records made public in Russia paints slightly different picture as to why Germany didn't go for Moscow. According to them, Russia repeated launched fierce yet futile counterattacks against leading German elements. While this made Russians loss tremendous amounts of soldiers and equipments, they manage to tire out the German Army who had to slow down to be replenished in fuel and ammo. Thus German commanders knew that advance to Moscow is not as easy as it might have looked to outsiders and made them more agreeable to the pincer envelopment Hitler wanted. These Russian Counter offense were not mentioned because horrendous loss Russians suffered. There is a youtube video of lecture by a professor of one of USA's military academy about this.

The following clip may also be of interest to you and this topic

[Chiaki_chan]

I just saw episode 4 when they face the Saunders but they have alot of Tanks, I wonder how the girls will Oarai against all that
:X

[Sumeragi]

Obviously they're not fighting all those tanks.

[PzIVf3]

Spoiler for OAV screenshots: