Tokyo Mew Mew New new anime Anticipation

[Kuroageha]

Now you know how feels Otomege Mob fandom

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by Tactics

So if Mint and Ichigo join the fray in this new direction, some changes have to be done. Simpler faces and more facilitating outfit is a plus.

I....

*bangs head against wall*

What does this have to do with the brighter colors and eye size exactly?

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Retatsu and Zakuro got some semblance to starting trio which is good to identify they're a team;

Actually, the starting trio is Ichigo, Mint, and Retatsu, and there's already some semblance there (as Ichigo and Retatsu's outfit are very similar, with the main different being that Ichigo wears puffy shorts to cover the lower portion of the showgirl leotard).

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by TnAdct1

Actually, the starting trio is Ichigo, Mint, and Retatsu, and there's already some semblance there (as Ichigo and Retatsu's outfit are very similar, with the main different being that Ichigo wears puffy shorts to cover the lower portion of the showgirl leotard).

The OG didn't do much to resemblance between each other IMO.
Each got different design that follow idea of team based on various animals. Its not a bad thing but current target audience definitely won't be same as 2002 unless any of of us can prove otherwise which would make the outfit redesign questionable.

I myself suspecting they might tweak the order because there's not many explanation to uniformed Hu-Ling and Mint other than making them the starting trio to fit RYB theme of newer tokusatsu compare to classic, Rayearth RGB like OG.

[Kismet-chan]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

Oh god the new designs are AWFUL

Spoiler:

Old; big eyes with detailed shading, bright, appealing candy colors for hair and costume.



New. UGLY. UGLY UGLY. Smol eyes with little shading, longer horse face, looks six years older than she should, UGLY dull as dirt colors.

THEY DON'T EVEN LOOK LIKE THE SAME CHARACTER.

Did the designer forget how to 'shoujo'!? New Ichigo looks like she'd be in some shounen harem ecchi show or something!!

I. Hate. This.

Personally, I highly disagree with all of this. I dropped the original show because even for the year it came out, I thought it looked fucking ghastly. And that's just the designs alone. Don't even get me started on that god awful animation. (And I also have a background in art. So "being an artist" like you mentioned in your other post literally means nothing in that regard.)

In fact, when it was announced this was getting a reboot at all, my immediate first thought was, "I sure do hope it's not a fugly visual trainwreck like the first show was. That's the absolute bare minimum I'm gonna need to actually give a shit about this."

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

(And I also have a background in art. So "being an artist" like you mentioned in your other post literally means nothing in that regard.)

Nah, the majority of artists I showed the comparisons to agree the redesign looks bad compared to the original. "Generic and bland" are our main complaints.

I think you're just in the the minority. I don't think my post "means nothing".

I dropped the original show because even for the year it came out, I thought it looked fucking ghastly.

Why? The bigger eyes? That's not an opinion about 2002 Tokyo Mew Mew I see very often...if ever. If it's the colors you don't like, LOTS of magical girl shows from the same era look exactly like this because they are children's shows and children love bright colors like that. The sub-par animation was also pretty common for a show with this demographic, episode amount, and genre. (Admittedly, Princess Tutu and Puchi Yucie had the BEST visuals of all these...but they were also only half the running time so....they had a budget for it.) Also there's no need for language lol

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

Nah, the majority of artists I showed the comparisons to agree the redesign looks bad compared to the original. "Generic and bland" are our main complaints.

I think you're just in the the minority. I don't think my post "means nothing".


Why? The bigger eyes? That's not an opinion about 2002 Tokyo Mew Mew I see very often...if ever. If it's the colors you don't like, LOTS of magical girl shows from the same era look exactly like this because they are children's shows and children love bright colors like that. The sub-par animation was also pretty common for a show with this demographic, episode amount, and genre. (Admittedly, Princess Tutu and Puchi Yucie had the BEST visuals of all these...but they were also only half the running time so....they had a budget for it.) Also there's no need for language lol

Do you even check the source material first? SMH

Tokyo Mew Mew, Cardcaptor Sakura and Magic Knight Rayearth target audiences are teenagers.
It aligned with rise of popularity from Sailor Moon that portrayed teenage magical girls in comparison to one aimed for children like Minky Momo;
Those three also coming from same magazine as Sailor Moon, Nakayoshi, making it somewhat popular gateway for magical girl-themed works for teenagers like Shugo Chara.

That's why I repeat it multiple times. Complaint to design better come with awareness of current target audience.
Precure is currently the bar of magical girls in general as they got it tough carrying Sunday with Super Hero Time. Good luck trying to succeeded if you wanted to get more audiences by just repeating 2002 design and screenplay or simply join the diluted pool of another Madoka Magica tryhard like most of magical girls story nowadays.

Man, I can't believe we're reaching era where one implying MKR and CCS are on same boat as "sub-par animation for children because it makes sense like that".

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Do you even check the source material first? SMH

Bruh, I even OWN the magazines they were published in so don't even.

Tokyo Mew Mew, Cardcaptor Sakura and Magic Knight Rayearth target audiences are teenagers.

Eh....it's more like preteens to early teens. Like ages 8 to 14, maybe. Which is quite a gap. If you flip through the pages that advertise zenin and furoku, you see quite young girls using the products. You can also tell from the marketing; they made lots of toy wands and lockets for the child fans, certainly not for the 14-year-olds.

If you are talking about manga magazines made ONLY for teens, you're looking at something more like Hana To Yume or Margaret.

Those three also coming from same magazine as Sailor Moon, Nakayoshi, making it somewhat popular gateway for magical girl-themed works for teenagers like Shugo Chara.

Shugo Chara is absolutely for kids lol The protagonist is even in grade school and she is meant to be relatable to her target audience.

Man, I can't believe we're reaching era where one implying MKR and CCS are on same boat as "sub-par animation for children because it makes sense like that".

MKR and CCS are 90s shows.
I was talking about early 2000s shoujo. It was that awkward period of transitioning from animation cells to computer animation and stuff could look pretty wonky. Kamichama Karin's anime in fact looked so terrible it became a meme. It was painful af to see a manga series I ADORED absolutely destroyed like that.

Clamp has a lot of money and fans so they can give both of them good animation. I wasn't 100% pleased with Rayearth's but Clamp's style is hard to animate. CCS does look wonderful (aside from Sakura's icky dark brown hair) though; this is why Madhouse is my favorite anime studio.

Good luck trying to succeeded if you wanted to get more audiences by just repeating 2002 design

If you gave it the Pretty Cure aesthetics, it would do absolutely fine.

For some reason, they went with Dollar store "To-Love-ru" crap. Don't gimme the "It just looks like the new manga Ikumi drew" because no, her art is way nicer than that.
Character designer needs to be fired.

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

[i]Eh....it's more like preteens to early teens. Like ages 8 to 14, maybe. Which is quite a gap. If you flip through the pages that advertise zenin and furoku, you see quite young girls using the products. You can also tell from the marketing; they made lots of toy wands and lockets for the child fans, certainly not for the 14-year-olds.

Heck, look at the airing of the Clear Card arc of CCS. The show aired on Sunday mornings in Japan, a time slot for show that are geared towards younger audiences.

For some reason, they went with Dollar store "To-Love-ru" crap. Don't gimme the "It just looks like the new manga Ikumi drew" because no, her art is way nicer than that.
Character designer needs to be fired.

My main issue with the character designs is one that is obviously for modesty reasons (with said change being anime only). However, I do agree that the characters are lacking when compared to the original series.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

Eh....it's more like preteens to early teens. Like ages 8 to 14, maybe. Which is quite a gap. If you flip through the pages that advertise zenin and furoku, you see quite young girls using the products. You can also tell from the marketing; they made lots of toy wands and lockets for the child fans, certainly not for the 14-year-olds.

Its my mistake forgot Shugo Chara character age, but its exactly because said gap I'd rather not immediately going "for kids" just because of merchandising.

Originally Posted by Chiibi

MKR and CCS are 90s shows.
I was talking about early 2000s shoujo. It was that awkward period of transitioning from animation cells to computer animation and stuff could look pretty wonky. Kamichama Karin's anime in fact looked so terrible it became a meme. It was painful af to see a manga series I ADORED absolutely destroyed like that.

Karin CG usage is fine though, not sure what you're talking about. Besides its not like their CG is so over the top it ate budget, more like they use CG exactly because budget have to be managed properly. Besides did they really destroyed the series when they managed to make 7 volume series with cramped paneling a proper 26 episode series with story that flow nicer than manga (at cost of some details)?

I still on opinion better watched it first to see how they do the series. Claiming someone need to be fired only if it so bad, which I don't think will happen to the character designer with Mint, Retatsu and Zakuro looking firm compare to their OG design.

Originally Posted by TnAdct1

Heck, look at the airing of the Clear Card arc of CCS. The show aired on Sunday mornings in Japan, a time slot for show that are geared towards younger audiences.

The first series is start airing at Tuesday afternoon; prime time even IIRC.

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Besides did they really destroyed the series when they managed to make 7 volume series with cramped paneling a proper 26 episode series with story that flow nicer than manga (at cost of some details)?

.............

Manga art:



Anime screencap:



Talk about people who need to be FIRED....

Yes, they absolutely destroyed it. The only thing they got right was the voice casting. The bare minimum. The feel was all wrong, the atmosphere was all wrong. The animation and directing were ATROCIOUS....not even the opening theme was good.

"Flowed nicer than the manga!?" What are you smoking? Koge-Donbo is a wonderful mangaka; she knows exactly how to pull your heartstrings and craft beautifully strong, emotional and romantic scenes....and she also knows how to be hilarious when the situation needs it and she knows drama as well. This woman can actually make me cry when I read her manga...be it from laughter or heartbreak.

The "anime" couldn't capture ANY of this beauty at all.

They tried to cram 14 volumes of content and new characters into 26 rushed episodes....it was total crap. Characters went off-model so badly and so often, I swear to God, the editors had to be asleep when they reviewed it for broadcast.

And yet....despite ALL of this.....it was still a better adaptation than Mamotte Lollipop. Which easily makes it into "Top Ten Worst Anime I've Ever Seen" and takes the prize for "Worst Shoujo Anime Ever Made".

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

Yes, they absolutely destroyed it. The only thing they got right was the voice casting. The bare minimum. The feel was all wrong, the atmosphere was all wrong. The animation and directing were ATROCIOUS....not even the opening theme was good.

"Flowed nicer than the manga!?" What are you smoking?

They tried to cram 14 volumes of content and new characters into 26 rushed episodes....it was total crap. Characters went off-model so badly and so often, I swear to God, the editors had to be asleep when they reviewed it for broadcast.

And yet....despite ALL of this.....it was still a better adaptation than Mamotte Lollipop. Which easily makes it into "Top Ten Worst Anime I've Ever Seen" and takes the prize for "Worst Shoujo Anime Ever Made".

Chu is incorporated, so its more like merging two seven volumes into one seven volumes story.
I did mentioned it lose some details, yes it happens in favor of incorporating Chu; decision making behind it likely due to inability to warrant second season.
For me it still nicer because as far I could remember some of plot points IMO done poorly that I could understand if the staffs agree to take it out to free more space.

I still think Doga Kobo did fair enough unless you could argue the series deserve to get higher budget and second season to separate main series and Chu.

On this regards, to not derail stuff, its not like Tokyo Mew Mew (2002) free from such changes or quality either.
I'm pretty sure Zakuro got complete background in anime compare to just "popular model" in manga, also Ichigo got honor to deal the finishing blow which made her position as center more justified. There should be episode where Ichigo eyes looks off as well; feel free to make rant about 2002 anime ruin things because its not faithful too.

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Chu is incorporated, so its more like merging two seven volumes into one seven volumes story.

Which is a terrible idea.

For me it still nicer because as far I could remember some of plot points IMO done poorly that I could understand if the staffs agree to take it out to free more space.

You are wrong. Objectively wrong. I read the manga several times...watched the anime once because it was too awful to watch a second time.

I still think Doga Kobo did fair enough unless you could argue the series deserve to get higher budget and second season to separate main series and Chu.

What? I don't understand this sentence

feel free to make rant about 2002 anime ruin things because its not faithful too.

Can't....I never watched the whole thing. I kinda got too mad over Ichigo's love interest choice once I found out who it was. Why did Ikumi have to pick Worst Boy?

[Kismet-chan]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

Nah, the majority of artists I showed the comparisons to agree the redesign looks bad compared to the original. "Generic and bland" are our main complaints.

I think you're just in the the minority. I don't think my post "means nothing"

Perhaps it's not your intention and you're just extremely passionate... But the way you've phrased your responses not only to me, but also to others here, comes off an awful lot like you're trying to approach an opinion about style like it's an objective fact. This is a highly subjective discussion, however. You think new style bad, old style good. I (and some others that just so happen to not be your all-knowing artist friends) think new style good, old style bad. That's... kind of it, really. It's not any more complex than that.

Why? The bigger eyes? That's not an opinion about 2002 Tokyo Mew Mew I see very often...if ever. If it's the colors you don't like, LOTS of magical girl shows from the same era look exactly like this because they are children's shows and children love bright colors like that. The sub-par animation was also pretty common for a show with this demographic, episode amount, and genre. (Admittedly, Princess Tutu and Puchi Yucie had the BEST visuals of all these...but they were also only half the running time so....they had a budget for it.)

Actually, the color palette isn't my concern. It was fairly accurate to the source material, not that that's terribly important to me or anything. Just an observation.

What it really is for me is that half of the issue is... pretty much everything about the character designs. Things like how the hair is drawn, some anatomical inconsistencies, how the clothes fit some of the characters, how some of the outfits are even drawn in and of themselves, the eye sizes, etc... And mind you, a good portion of things about the style in the anime were also things I didn't like about the look of the manga... So kudos to Pierrot for accuracy, I guess?

The other half of it is that the animation isn't good quality to me. Like you said, there are a good handful other mahou shoujo anime adaptations that came out that same year or even before that looked leagues better. I'm not going to give TMM a pass just because other shows didn't have to spread their resources as far. I don't give any show of any genre, adaptation or original, that kind of a pass... almost ever. If I don't like how it looks, I just don't like how it fuckin' looks. Simple as.

Also there's no need for language lol

That's how I like to express myself. And in all the years I've been here (about as long as you, so I know you know better), I've been fairly certain there's nothing in the AS rules forbidding one from doing such... So I'm just gonna continue to do as I please in that department. Thanks.

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

Perhaps it's not your intention and you're just extremely passionate... But the way you've phrased your responses not only to me, but also to others here, comes off an awful lot like you're trying to approach an opinion about style like it's an objective fact. This is a highly subjective discussion, however. You think new style bad, old style good. I (and some others that just so happen to not be your all-knowing artist friends) think new style good, old style bad. That's... kind of it, really. It's not any more complex than that.

...uh, all I saw was the majority of the people I showed the designs to agree with me.

I really have not seen many others who think the old style is bad.



Well, if you don't like Ikumi's manga art, you don't like it. Oh well.

Like you said, there are a good handful other mahou shoujo anime adaptations that came out that same year or even before that looked leagues better.

"Good handful"?
I didn't actually say that though? I said 'only a few.'

Let me pull up the mahou shoujo chart, ok...



These aired in the same era as Tokyo Mew Mew. I have seen most of them.

I will now rate the animation for you lol

Magical Taruto: not that great..the funny part is this isn't even shoujo

Full Moon: switches from good to meh to bad...is the same length as TMM

Princess Tutu: literally amazing. Is half the length of TMM

Petite Princess Yucie: Very good. It's GAINAX. Gainax has money. Same length as Tutu

Mermaid Melody: same type of animation as TMM and Full Moon, I feel. Same length too

Ultra Maniac: Average to good. Same length as Tutu.

Valkryie: Average...maybe. Some scenes look pretty nice but it IS aimed at otaku men...so they put in more effort to sell the dvds lol and it's only thirteen episodes.

I'm not going to give TMM a pass just because other shows didn't have to spread their resources as far. I don't give any show of any genre, adaptation or original, that kind of a pass... almost ever. If I don't like how it looks, I just don't like how it fuckin' looks. Simple as.

I'm not really asking you to like it...but asking you to be a little more understanding.

Unless a studio has a HUGE budget for the animation (Like Gainax and Madhouse), it's a bit illogical to expect a 52+ episode show to look as nice as a 26-episode show. Like...that just doesn't happen? They're gonna cut corners. They have to. If they don't have the funds, they just don't have it. They can't just pull more cash outta their butts lol.

That's how I like to express myself. And in all the years I've been here (about as long as you, so I know you know better), I've been fairly certain there's nothing in the AS rules forbidding one from doing such... So I'm just gonna continue to do as I please in that department. Thanks.

It's just kind of rude is all.... and not very classy. I might use it if I'm really excited....or really really mad. But not when I'm just talking normally.

[Kismet-chan]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

"Good handful"?
I didn't actually say that though? I said 'only a few.'

Admittedly, that was poor wording on my part. I agree with the initial examples you gave, but as I said, I can think of several other shows that came out within that same span of 2001~2003 that I personally feel look much better. I'm not taking length or budget into account with that opinion like you are, because for me, it's irrelevant to how I feel about visual quality.

And on that note...

I'm not really asking you to like it...but asking you to be a little more understanding.

I can comprehend that the end result of a work may be due to a lack of budget, talent, legal permissions, production misfortunes, or whatever else... Be completely sympathetic to those who had to deal with such constraints... Yet still be cognizant of my large aversion to said end result of the product and still be highly critical of it. Those aren't mutually exclusive concepts.

Unless a studio has a HUGE budget for the animation (Like Gainax and Madhouse), it's a bit illogical to expect a 52+ episode show to look as nice as a 26-episode show. Like...that just doesn't happen? They're gonna cut corners. They have to. If they don't have the funds, they just don't have it. They can't just pull more cash outta their butts lol.

Well, I never said I expected that. Again, I stand by what I said above. My opinion of "Hmm, I don't really like how this looks" doesn't magically change or go away just because I know the team that made it struggled or lacked resources... It just becomes an opinion that is informed of the unfortunate circumstances that led to its formation, in that case.

It's just kind of rude is all.... and not very classy. I might use it if I'm really excited....or really really mad. But not when I'm just talking normally.

...Rude to who, exactly? You? It's not like I cursed you out personally or called you names. That would be rude. And it's not like this is a professional setting. We're anime nerds on a damned internet forum. We're not getting paid for this conversation. If anyone here cared about being classy, they'd find a different platform (or hobby). If you don't like it, just... don't respond to it? I don't what else to tell you.

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

Admittedly, that was poor wording on my part. I agree with the initial examples you gave, but as I said, I can think of several other shows that came out within that same span of 2001~2003 that I personally feel look much better.

Could you please name them?

If anyone here cared about being classy, they'd find a different platform (or hobby).

Okay, I'm a little offended by this. Are you really saying people have no class depending on what their hobby is?

I'm strongly against this whole "Anime and comics are only for degenerates and basement dwellers who look and talk like apes" mindset people have nowadays. It's gross. It's also highly inaccurate. I have seen people of every kind into this hobby. Ones who talk intelligently, even eloquently...even ones who care about making a good impression and -gasp- hygiene.

[Kismet-chan]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

Could you please name them?

Keeping it strictly to mahou shoujo series: Arjuna, Pretear, Princess Tutu, and Petite Princess Yucie. Any mahou shoujo shows I didn't list from the span of 2001 to 2003 either had about the same level of quality as TMM, only shined a portion of the time/during certain seasons, or looked much worse than TMM to me.

Okay, I'm a little offended by this. Are you really saying people have no class depending on what their hobby is?

I'm strongly against this whole "Anime and comics are only for degenerates and basement dwellers who look and talk like apes" mindset people have nowadays. It's gross. It's also highly inaccurate. I have seen people of every kind into this hobby. Ones who talk intelligently, even eloquently...even ones who care about making a good impression and -gasp- hygiene.

You clearly feel a certain type of way about people who say things of that nature, but don't project your insecurities onto what I said. None of that is what was in my post. What is or isn't classy is highly subjective and I think the narrative that usage of expletives automatically denotes a lack of it is, in and of itself, offensive.

[Chiibi]

So bsically the ones I mentioned. Yeah,Pretear looks great...but it's for an older audience and very short.

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

What is or isn't classy is highly subjective and I think the narrative that usage of expletives automatically denotes a lack of it is, in and of itself, offensive.

That's not offensive...that's common knowledge. Do you introduce yourself to a stranger in real life like "Hi, my fucking name is ________?"

Of course not.

Why?

Cause it's rude.

TV also censors that word for a reason. Many websites will too.

[Kismet-chan]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

Yeah,Pretear looks great...but it's for an older audience and very short.

That is true, but like I said, I don't factor things like that into my analysis of a show's visual appeal to me.

That's not offensive...that's common knowledge. Do you introduce yourself to a stranger in real life like "Hi, my fucking name is ________?"

Of course not.

Why?

Cause it's rude.

TV also censors that word for a reason. Many websites will too.

...That example is both reductionist and unrealistic, so I'm not even going to entertain it.

This exchange ultimately boils down to semantics that we disagree on. Being offensive and lacking class are not one in the same, in my opinion, and I personally believe that extends to language. And even if it didn't... I'm not obligated to soothe your delicate sensibilities by censoring myself, anyway. And neither is anyone else. That is my final commentary on this matter. If it pleases you to do so, you may disregard it.