AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime > Fansub Groups

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-07-22, 00:46   Link #241
getfresh
done
*Fansubber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Yokosuka, JP
Age: 43
I honestly think that all these "fansub" quality comparison sites are becoming pretty pointless as they are not "fansub" quality comparisons when everyone is only focus'd on "encoding" conparisons.

Comparing an edit or translation with 5-6 images doesn't really compare much of anything and prettyy much kills the whole point of a "fansub" comparison. All that is being compared with these images is opening karaoke styles and effects, title effects, dialogue styling, ending karaoke styling and effects, the eyecatch styles and effects, and a random sign.

this is all typesetting and encoding stuff.

As a typesetter I can say without a doubt that typesetting is one of the least important tasks in fansubbing as far as what is REALLY required to sub. I cannot speak for encoding with such absolution as I am not an encoder and do not feel like inviting an argument from them since they are experts and I am not. But I would chance to believe that it is not the big of a deal with the quality of raws present today compared to in the past where a raw needed to be "faxed" just so it was watchable.

I for one hope that his trend will change direction and more focus will be added to translation and editing.
getfresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-22, 02:29   Link #242
ras80
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by getfresh View Post
I honestly think that all these "fansub" quality comparison sites are becoming pretty pointless as they are not "fansub" quality comparisons when everyone is only focus'd on "encoding" conparisons.

Comparing an edit or translation with 5-6 images doesn't really compare much of anything and prettyy much kills the whole point of a "fansub" comparison. All that is being compared with these images is opening karaoke styles and effects, title effects, dialogue styling, ending karaoke styling and effects, the eyecatch styles and effects, and a random sign.

this is all typesetting and encoding stuff.

As a typesetter I can say without a doubt that typesetting is one of the least important tasks in fansubbing as far as what is REALLY required to sub. I cannot speak for encoding with such absolution as I am not an encoder and do not feel like inviting an argument from them since they are experts and I am not. But I would chance to believe that it is not the big of a deal with the quality of raws present today compared to in the past where a raw needed to be "faxed" just so it was watchable.

I for one hope that his trend will change direction and more focus will be added to translation and editing.
Well they might be pointless but at least a starting point to select a good release worth to download. In my cycle I check anidb comments first (if any) then check some screen shots..Without these information what's the alternative other than downloading all releases, and actually seeing them with your own eyes? I wish there was a MASTERANIMEGURU who would answer my best release question every time, patiently..
ras80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-22, 05:34   Link #243
getfresh
done
*Fansubber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Yokosuka, JP
Age: 43
I wasn't speaking of your site in specific but of all of them in general. Pretty much every compare site compares some screen caps. There use to be sites with translation compares, and one crops up from time to time. But to call something a "fansub comparison" and not have all elements adequately represented isn't right imo. Yet all the new sites coming up one after another do just this.
getfresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-22, 06:49   Link #244
dj_tjerk
Ana-chan~
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Netherlands
You can say what you want, but the elements that most leechers consider important are covered in those screencaps. I wonder if it's because of those screencaps people started to only care about visual stuff, or if it's the other way around. Also, an adequate comparison for you may very likely not be an adequate comparison for me.

Also, as has been said many times already (Tofu, NoSanninWa, asunder, ...), not all fansubbers (I prolly won't either) like criticism. If you are going to compare translation/editing/timing, then prepare to endure some childish acts like DDoS's from angry/irritated fansubbers. Translation is not always simply "correct or wrong", neither is any other aspect of a fansub. Tastes differ, and people aren't always that understanding of another one's taste/preference; especially NOT on the internet.

A quick summary:
Literal translation vs. more "free"/localized translation.
Comma abuse (grammatical correctness) or easily readable. Slang or correct english.
Leadin/Leadout/Scenetiming/"lunar-style" timing.
Hardsub/softsub/only notes/AFX/Every Sign/Only useful ones/...
Overfiltered/HD Only/no xvid/too big/too blurry/...

As this and many other threads have proven, one can go on about those for hours, but is one style necessarily better than another (leaving out personal preferences)?
dj_tjerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-22, 07:13   Link #245
getfresh
done
*Fansubber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Yokosuka, JP
Age: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_tjerk View Post
You can say what you want, but the elements that most leechers consider important are covered in those screencaps. I wonder if it's because of those screencaps people started to only care about visual stuff, or if it's the other way around. Also, an adequate comparison for you may very likely not be an adequate comparison for me.

Also, as has been said many times already (Tofu, NoSanninWa, asunder, ...), not all fansubbers (I prolly won't either) like criticism. If you are going to compare translation/editing/timing, then prepare to endure some childish acts like DDoS's from angry/irritated fansubbers. Translation is not always simply "correct or wrong", neither is any other aspect of a fansub. Tastes differ, and people aren't always that understanding of another one's taste/preference; especially NOT on the internet.

A quick summary:
Literal translation vs. more "free"/localized translation.
Comma abuse (grammatical correctness) or easily readable. Slang or correct english.
Leadin/Leadout/Scenetiming/"lunar-style" timing.
Hardsub/softsub/only notes/AFX/Every Sign/Only useful ones/...
Overfiltered/HD Only/no xvid/too big/too blurry/...

As this and many other threads have proven, one can go on about those for hours, but is one style necessarily better than another (leaving out personal preferences)?
All I am talking about is comparing for absolute mistakes or incorrect work. Like a translation being 100% wrong in many places, numerous editing errors like mispellings, or lines timed to the wrong things, or not timed at all.

The majority of leechers dl whatever is first or whatever group they remember leeching lots from. The people who most commonly go to compare sites are fansubbers. If you don't like the comparisons, don't read them. Some people however learn from them and can take them objectively.
getfresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-22, 07:40   Link #246
pichu
Senior Member
*Fansubber
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by getfresh View Post
All I am talking about is comparing for absolute mistakes or incorrect work. Like a translation being 100% wrong in many places, numerous editing errors like mispellings, or lines timed to the wrong things, or not timed at all.
If you want only that, then compare/diff the scripts. Since most of the releases are softsubbed nowadays, it's not impossible to diff the scripts and put them on the site... and the users can know the difference between them.

Screenshots only depict:

Encode/Video Quality
Typesetting Quality (logo, credits, signs, karaoke, and styles)
Some obvious timing errors (bleeds)

Some English mistakes
Some Translation mistakes (if not obvious)
Some Derogatory stuff (like overuse of the word, "fuck")



Screenshots do not show the latter three that well and clearly... The best way, however, is to compare the scripts. Perhaps, have the audio put as a supplementary data.
pichu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-22, 08:05   Link #247
Kristen
Senior Member
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia Tech
The thing I don't like about fansub comparison sites is that it doesn't show what I'm most interested in - the timing. It can show TL comparisons (If there are more than 2 groups), encode quality, typesetting, editing, and pretty much everything other than the timing comparisons. Maybe having animate .gif images of scenes where one group decided to bleed and another decided to snap would help? I don't know. XD
__________________
Kristen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-22, 09:25   Link #248
pichu
Senior Member
*Fansubber
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristen View Post
The thing I don't like about fansub comparison sites is that it doesn't show what I'm most interested in - the timing. It can show TL comparisons (If there are more than 2 groups), encode quality, typesetting, editing, and pretty much everything other than the timing comparisons. Maybe having animate .gif images of scenes where one group decided to bleed and another decided to snap would help? I don't know. XD
True... even on the typesetting I do, the SS can't show how much time is put into them... (i.e. exact movements). Oh please... animated gif... Try .flv's hehe

As for TL's, it only shows a little... It's best to have the audio too for translation checks.

The only things that screenshots emphasize are: fansub typesettings/graphics and encode/video qualities. That's all.
pichu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-07-22, 10:31   Link #249
getfresh
done
*Fansubber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Yokosuka, JP
Age: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichu View Post
True... even on the typesetting I do, the SS can't show how much time is put into them... (i.e. exact movements). Oh please... animated gif... Try .flv's hehe

As for TL's, it only shows a little... It's best to have the audio too for translation checks.

The only things that screenshots emphasize are: fansub typesettings/graphics and encode/video qualities. That's all.
And even then it can only show static typesetting which is more the styling" end of it. It doesn't show how well the typesetters code actually works.
getfresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-11, 02:19   Link #250
fireshark
CRF Believer
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Send a message via AIM to fireshark
"accurate translation"?
fireshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-11, 18:05   Link #251
Emess
Slower Than You
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Western Australia
Send a message via AIM to Emess Send a message via MSN to Emess Send a message via Yahoo to Emess
Quote:
Originally Posted by koutakurugi88 View Post
I've decided I am going to start a fansub comparison site starting winter season, i will post flash video embedded for typesetting and find a qualified translator to give an accurate translation for the screenshots taken and will post it like that so people can actually compare everything. I think that would be a better way of comparing. I may even have full comparison of all op/ed songs with an accurate TL underneath, we'll see how it goes ^_^ wish me luck! I am even gonna add a function to vote on the releases so people can see that as well. I think it will be awesome when finished!
So it's AniDB? Apparently everyone there is an accurate translator, and it has a voting system, just no flash. Really most fansubbing things are subjective, besides encoding, some people like more ts, others less, 99% are blind to good sub styling and grammar is a question of preferance. As for voting, if anyone even cares, it'll be fansubbers bashing other groups.

E~
Emess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-12, 06:05   Link #252
TheFluff
Excessively jovial fellow
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 37
in other words, a blog among millions of other blogs nobody cares about
__________________
| ffmpegsource
17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
TheFluff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-12, 06:57   Link #253
Slice of Life
eyewitness
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
If somebody could direct me to a few blogs nobody cares about that compare fan translations in particular I'd be grateful.
__________________
- Any ideas how to fill this space?
Slice of Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-12, 06:58   Link #254
Daiz
Pioneer in Fansub 2.0
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Oh my, a fansub comparison effort by coreym.

CLEARLY NOTHING CAN GO WRONG WITH THIS
__________________
"A good user is remembered from his posts, not from his 160px tall animated 'pink flying unicorns' signature picture."
---
The Guide for best H.264 playback
Daiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-12, 07:28   Link #255
Emess
Slower Than You
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Western Australia
Send a message via AIM to Emess Send a message via MSN to Emess Send a message via Yahoo to Emess
When you change the ending of something to katta what does that mean?

Oh yeah, I see this site's translation validation going smoothly, very very smoothly >.>

E~
Emess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-15, 09:48   Link #256
guest0815
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ras80 View Post
...what's the alternative other than downloading all releases, and actually seeing them with your own eyes?
That's what I do. Works great.
guest0815 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-16, 23:40   Link #257
IronWarrior
KenshiWarrior
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: England UK
So is there any decent fansubs that offer full Japanese Audio/English Subs at 1080p that don't cut the OP's and ED's out?
IronWarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-17, 00:01   Link #258
Heibi
Ancient Fansubber
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: KS
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWarrior View Post
So is there any decent fansubs that offer full Japanese Audio/English Subs at 1080p that don't cut the OP's and ED's out?
Broad question - but it depends on the show in particular.
__________________
Heibi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-17, 01:42   Link #259
Zalis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 42
With some rare exceptions, 1080p fansubs Blu-Ray remuxes and rips using a pre-existing translation don't "cut the OPs and EDs" out. They often use ordered chapters, which means the OP/ED get played normally if you use a player like MPC that supports that feature.
Zalis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-17, 12:09   Link #260
DmonHiro
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Romania
Age: 37
Send a message via Yahoo to DmonHiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWarrior View Post
So is there any decent fansubs that offer full Japanese Audio/English Subs at 1080p that don't cut the OP's and ED's out?
1. Yeah... you're going to have to give a little more detail then that.
2. Nobody cuts the OP/ED, they use Ordered Chapters. Look that up.
DmonHiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.