Nanoha Manga Discussion

[Kaijo]

Yeah, looking at their fight again, the look on his face and the sheer excitement... sure, Veyron was "out of ammo" and basically told Touma to "call me later."

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

To Signum's fault, though, as soon as Cypha said she was the one who killed those people, the gloves were off and she went into revenge mode.

Well, yeah, i can accept that but i like her reaction anyway xD! A bastard villain laguhs with joy about killing villages full of people and Signum react very understandably offended by said behavior, her silent reaction of pummeling Cypha to the ground creating an explosion and crater that would make any Saiyan proud makes me very happy. Even if it wasn't the most correct or intelligent thing to do it provides a little moment of satisfaction for my soul xD.

Sadly, from that point onwards Signum reactions become dull and clumsy falling right into Cypha's mindgame using Tohma. Then taking again the best course of action she can think of(and obviously not the most effective xDU) and then standing still like a tree waiting for Cypha to slash her xDU.

By this point i don't have any high hopes for her to become a top class badass again but it will be very welcome if Tsuzuki's decides to cure Signum of her sudden down's syndrome xDU.

[Justin_Brett]

Eh, Signum didn't explode or anything like other characters do in those situations, so it wasn't exactly losing control. She just gave Cypha exactly what she'd been asking for since they first saw each-other.

...not in that way.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Well, yeah, i can accept that but i like her reaction anyway xD! A bastard villain laguhs with joy about killing villages full of people and Signum react very understandably offended by said behavior

Uh, you're exaggerating things. Cypha didn't laugh or anything like that. She pretty calmly stated "Yeah, I was the one who killed them."

Oh, and I just noticed Cypha telling Lily "The TSAB already have no problems if they want to erase you." Considering it's likely those scientist guys Thoma took Lily from are working for the Bureau, that seems pretty believable.

[Justin_Brett]

Was that ever actually confirmed?

And she was smirking...but then, she's ALWAYS smirking.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Was that ever actually confirmed?

Well they were pretty well equipped, though they could be funded by other non-Bureau entities. But I think the real clincher is that they're cooperating with the Bureau and law enforcement. If they really were some shadowy group they'd keep things under wraps. We know the horrific experiements they conducted, yet none of that came under questioning. The theft is what was of interest rather than what was being researched there.

I suppose it's possible that they destroyed incriminating evidence, but there's no indicated of that and we see the scientists speaking with officers, and Signum knew what was stolen was the Divider and the Reactor.

[Justin_Brett]

Well, did they know exactly what the Reactor was? I imagine quite a few characters would have a problem with them experimenting on a young girl, but not necessarily a Device-like machine.

[Nanya01]

You know, it's interesting...

Aren't all mass-based weapons heavily regulated, if not banned?

Yet, what was the scientist group seen having when Touma found the Divider?

AK-47s.

"OMG! The kid has the Divider! Kill him!"

But, that's all I'm going to say about this.

Who did the Hucks kill? Who?

The nuns? Veyron never said he killed them.

Cypha may or may not have killed the villagers. After all, Fortis said "If it was one of us, there would be no survivors."

So, we can argue every little detail if we want to.

We DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH PROOF to decree everything.

So...

ENOUGH!

I'm tired of seeing the arguments!

So, stop, just STOP ALREADY!!

It's annoying and does NOTHING but anger us!

Everyone BUT Raiser, myself and Kaijo are seeing this in Black and White.

At least WAIT until we get more freaking information before condemning them!!

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Well, did they know exactly what the Reactor was? I imagine quite a few characters would have a problem with them experimenting on a young girl, but not necessarily a Device-like machine.

Maybe not, but there still didn't seem to be a problem with them having the Divider. They didn't seem to go "I can't believe they had a Divider here! Why didn't they report it to the Bureau?" So maybe the Bureau did know about what was going on there and gave some sort of approval/backing. It's possible they weren't aware of the extent of the experiments, but it's also possible they knew exactly what was going on there. We know that the High Council and Regius had their thumbs in some unsavioury pies, so it's possible other corrupt officials exist.

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Cypha may or may not have killed the villagers. After all, Fortis said "If it was one of us, there would be no survivors."

We still know she killed every last of those people Signum knew about. The village Teana was investigating, we aren't sure.

But yeah, don't think your post is helping much, Nanya. We had moved away from that already anyways.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Uh, you're exaggerating things. Cypha didn't laugh or anything like that. She pretty calmly stated "Yeah, I was the one who killed them."

Ok, she didn't laugh, but the evil smirk was there xDU.

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Oh, and I just noticed Cypha telling Lily "The TSAB already have no problems if they want to erase you." Considering it's likely those scientist guys Thoma took Lily from are working for the Bureau, that seems pretty believable.

My guess is that Signum didn't know the entire truth about that, after all if said lab guys really wotk for the TSAB they will most likely do it for a secret division/project, sure they can say officially that they're working on a "Divider" or a new "weapon" conveniently avoiding to mention that said weapon is a poor girl, this isn't new, after all Regius and Scaglietti already do it before. It's unlikely that a 2nd Lietunant like Signum have said explicit knowledge.

Still that doesn't change the fact that Cypha was about to kill the poor girl. Either for mercy, convenience, practicality or whatever reason she had for doing so, the only fact that count at the moment is that she was about to kill an innocent victim in front of a TSAB officer and Signum and Agito resolved to act according to the circunstances.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

My guess is that Signum didn't know the entire truth about that, after all if said lab guys really wotk for the TSAB they will most likely do it for a secret division/project, sure they can say officially that they're working on a "Divider" or a new "weapon" conveniently avoiding to mention that said weapon is a poor girl, this isn't new, after all Regius and Scaglietti already do it before. It's unlikely that a 2nd Lietunant like Signum have said explicit knowledge.

Still that doesn't change the fact that Cypha was about to kill the poor girl. Either for mercy, convenience, practicality or whatever reason she had for doing so, the only fact that count at the moment is that she was about to kill an innocent victim in front of a TSAB officer and Signum and Agito resolved to act according to the circunstances.

Right, Signum wouldn't be privvy to such information since she's not high up on the ladder. As such, say, if Signum did secure Thoma, the ones in charge could easily say "Okay agent Signum, your job is done, we'll take care of the boy from here" and then subject him to god knows what. And Signum couldn't do anything about it because she'd have to follow orders.

And it's not clear if Cypha was going to kill Lily. She just drew her sword and told her to step away from Thoma, much like Signum did to Cypha moments later.

[Akiyoshi]

Don't make me read that chapter again please ;_;

[00-Raiser]

But it's chapter 5. Chapter 7 is the one you want to avoid.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

But it's chapter 5. Chapter 7 is the one you want to avoid.

Oh yeah, you're right xD

By the way, i don't think it matters much but i wonder if Cypha's eyepatch conceals something different than an empty eye-socket, i said that because his patch looks to have some sort of round "lens" at the center.

-Re-match-

Cypha: *strugglin* ugh... not bad public servant, so this is the new power of the TSAB's weaponary, uh?
Signum: No, this is our resolving to stop you from harming more people and yourself.
Agito: That's right!
Cypha: Too weak, your praised determination is ..TOO WEAK!! *eyepatch glows*
Agito: No way!
Signum: *surprised face* .....
Cypha: OPTIC BLAST!!! *a powerfull red beam send Signum to crash across three walls*
Signum: AAAAAAARRRGGHHH!!!
Agito: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

xD

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Actually, we're both working with non-existent proof. The difference being, I admit it. And actually, the Hucks say they just kill. They don't apply the innocent qualifier at all.

I work with statements of the characters, that is existing proof. The characters state they kill people, that they would kill entire villages down to every man, woman and child. This is existing proof. Your theories contradict this proof, and therefore require validation before they can be considered reasonable, which they lack.

[Tiresias]

And just how long must we wait for the supposed sob story? The moment an information is gathered, opinions will be formed. We may not immediately form a pattern in our heads, but people can't reserve their judgment forever you know(btw mine died along with the nuns)!

FYI you're not the only one fed up with this argument, but you know what?! Fine! Have your last words if it would make you feel better!

Like I said before, both sides have pretty much established their stance, and only new info from the manga can change that.

You want to weep for Huckebeins hypothetical freudian excuse? Go ahead, that's your right! And it's my right to weep for the butchered nuns, the ones that Veyron had admitted on killing!

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Oh yeah, you're right xD

By the way, i don't think it matters much but i wonder if Cypha's eyepatch conceals something different than an empty eye-socket, i said that because his patch looks to have some sort of round "lens" at the center.

Obviously it's actually a monster that devours her spiritual power

Originally Posted by Tiresias

You want to weep for Huckebeins hypothetical freudian excuse? Go ahead, that's your right! And it's my right to weep for the butchered nuns, the ones that Veyron had admitted on killing!

He said he killed, didn't say what

[Justin_Brett]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Uh, you're exaggerating things. Cypha didn't laugh or anything like that. She pretty calmly stated "Yeah, I was the one who killed them."

To compromise, she said:

"However, rejoice. I remember now. The one who left no adult or children alive on that day at that place was, without a doubt, myself."

So, not laughing about it, but definitely being a bitch about it.

And I resent that, Nanya - I'm merely not looking for evidence that doesn't exist yet. You and Kaijo are.

[Nanya01]

I am EXTREMELY close to doing something we'll all regret here.

So, STOP CALLING ME IN!!

ENOUGH! ALL OF YOU! ENOUGH!

SHEE!

ALL WE ARE DOING IS GOING BACK AND FORTH SAYING THE SAME GODDAMMED THINGS!!! NOTHING HAS CHANGED!!

At least wait for the manga chapter to get translated!

[TheRainbowConnection]

If you insist on carrying on this discussion about the evilness of the Hucks, I suggest not homogenizing them into an identical whole. As it stands, it's hard to put someone like Stella who pretty much just said "Dude, we don't mess with you, so stop messing with us" on the same plane as someone like Veyron or Cypha who deliberately went out of her way to answer Signum in a provocative manner and seemed to take pleasure in "being better at killing".

Guilt by association is a bad rule to go by when they are forced onto the fringes of society by something outside of their own control and have to band together in the best approximation of a family that they can muster.