The decline of anime; 'notto disu thureado agen.'

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Soliloquy

Since 2013 or so, the anime has been on the rise, maybe because of the expected popularity of that new shonen anime Attack on Something something. Despite that, you have a few very cynical veterans or classic fans complaining about anime these days pandering towards the very specific type of audience. We all know that has been further from the truth. Also that same year, anime that gears towards the girls have been making some big splash too. I might probably even say anime is even more mainstream than ever even those peak years of 2006 and 2007 where it also gave us NHK Ni Youkoso, Tengen Tenpa Gurren Lagunn and Noein.

The three you mention are very good series, but the reason why I brought up NANA, DN, and Haruhi for 2006 are because they are all massive commercial success.

Because personal preferences aren't quantifiable, which I figure is necessary for discussion of rise/fall of anime the thread is talking about.
Some may argue that quality is quantifiable, but I think that involves incredibly arguable and disagreeable elements with no end agreement in sight.

[Last Sinner]

Saw this comment today from Anno. Ironic but intriguing since he created the title that triggered the merchandise-driven state of the industry and became the model for commercial success.

Said Anno, "the Japanese animation industry has hit a dead end—it will be tough to escape unless we can make animation without commercial considerations... It may even be too late."

[Dwennimmen]

Eh I've noticed this too honestly, but I just chalked it up to maybe anime that doesn't suit my interests being released each year until I attempted to go outside my comfort zone and promptly ran back to it due to the sheer crappiness being released in all genres.. :l

[Shyni]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Saw this comment today from Anno. Ironic but intriguing since he created the title that triggered the merchandise-driven state of the industry and became the model for commercial success.

He has to be sarcastic unless he's somehow unaware that his own work sells a load of merchandise.

[Archon_Wing]

Kind of a necessary evil to survive at times-- one may not agree with it, but if it makes money it has to be done even if it interferes with the creative process.

Of course, the problem might be the dependence on a very small audience that is shrinking in a population that is aging overall.

[Benigmatica]

By the way, with recent works such as Mahouka and Gate where it has some right-wing elements, I have a feeling that there's no anime series that tackles such sensitive themes.

Heck, we won't see any works that tackles it until it's censored by right-wing groups or revisionists.

[Zoltor]

There's only a small handful of high end greats in the entire history of anime, so I'm gonna assume when you say great anime, you mean very good anime.

In any year, there's usually only a few high end good anime(aka good anime worth rewatching)- very good anime. If we're really lucky, 1 high end Great will come out in a giving year.

I have to say, post 2000 it has been very constant(pre-2000 way fewer anime were made each year, so you were lucky if 1 very good anime was released). The exception to the rule, is 2009, which is also known as the year where awesome anime go to hide.

That year just keeps on given, and It's utterly insane how many quality anime came out that year.

More recently we got Kingdom(a high end great of all things)
Log Horizon
Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo

Seems to still be a consistant to me, despite the fact more, and more anime are being ruined due to ecchi BS(Two anime this year I was interested in originally, I ended up ditching, because when it came out, it ended up being a ecchi), I'm sure there's still the same amount of quality anime to be found.

To Benigmatica: You should check out Hanasakeru Seishounen. The setting, and backdrop is probally why this anime didn't do well, but despite the bad setting, and contraversal backdrop, It's a pretty awesome anime.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Zoltor

Seems to still be a consistant to me, despite the fact more, and more anime are being ruined due to ecchi BS(Two anime this year I was interested in originally, I ended up ditching, because when it came out, it ended up being a ecchi), I'm sure there's still the same amount of quality anime to be found.

FWIW, I'm not too convinced the ratio of "ecchi" is higher than before either. If anything, I almost wonder if it's lower, but I suppose it depends on how you classify it. Perhaps what happened is that they broadened a little bit in terms of story premise so that there's more perceived cross-over with other genres.

[aohige]

^Yeah, he's may not be very familiar with the 80s and 90s.

TV today couldn't get away with Maicchingu Machiko Sensei for its incessant continuous sexual harassments.

[Zoltor]

Originally Posted by aohige

^Yeah, he's may not be very familiar with the 80s and 90s.

TV today couldn't get away with Maicchingu Machiko Sensei for its incessant continuous sexual harassments.

What are you talking about, I actually started watching anime in the 80s, the whole ecchi BS, and fanservice in general, didn't really start until the early 2000s(The whole Felicia thing in MvC 2, pretty much kick started the whole fan service trend)

These past few years or so though, they've been adding ecchi to anime that have good premises. It would seem that due to people knowing beforehand, that anything in the ecchi genre is gonna be a stinking pile of shit, they have now decided to try tricking people into watching such POS, by giving X anime a interesting premise.

Lol but I'm no newbie to anime or marketing tactics, those idiots will never beable to trick me into watching their no effort anime crap that they dare pass off as a product.

Are you kidding me, TV gets away with anything, and everything these days. I wish Ecchi, and fanservice were banned. Also while you're at it, ban Blood & gore as well, so then companies would have no choice what so ever, but to have a high quality anime(great story, great char, great music, great art, ect), in order for it to sell

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Zoltor

What are you talking about, I actually started watching anime in the 80s, the whole ecchi BS, and fanservice in general, didn't really start until the early 2000s(The whole Felicia thing in MvC 2, pretty much kick started the whole fan service trend)

No fanservice before 2000? Ranma, Lupin, Urusei Yatsura, Dragonball had plenty of ecchi fanservice for 80's shows

[Zoltor]

Originally Posted by hyl

Ranma, Lupin, Urusei Yatsura, Dragonball . All of those had fanservice

Ranma didn't have fanservice. Tastful partial nudity that's actually justified, doesn't = fanservice, nor is there being a cute girl in the anime in of its self by default = fanservice. That is why I love Shampoo so much, she's like the only overly cute anime char ever in a anime, that doesn't exist as a supplement for fanservice.

I don't remember any fanservice in DB at all either.

I only was able to catch a few Lupin the 3rd ep back in the day, so not too sure about that.

Never saw or even heard of Urusei Yatsura though, what's that anime even about?

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Zoltor

Ranma didn't have fanservice. Tastful partial nudity, doesn't = fanservice, nor is there being a cute girl in the anime by default = fanservice in of its self.

That would be in your opinion tastefull, but i think that the quite common nudity was very much catered to fanservice. Plus it wasn't always "partial"

Originally Posted by Zoltor

I don't remember any fanservice in DB at all either.

The beginning , when it was more focused on journey to get the balls and comedy than on the fighting. It had some Bulma nudity, "ball" jokes and panties and more

Originally Posted by Zoltor

Never saw or even heard of Urusei Yatsura though, what's that anime even about?

Google it.




And i haven't mentioned the fanservice 90's animes (like Tenchi Muyo) or the few before the 80's (Cutey Honey) ...

Plus there were some that i forgot like Dirty pair (because i thought that it was a 90's anime )

[Zoltor]

Originally Posted by hyl

That would be in your opinion tastefull, but i think that the quite common nudity was very much catered to fanservice

The beginning , when it was more focused on journey to get the balls and comedy than on the fighting. It had some Bulma nudity, "ball" jokes and panties and more

Google it.

And i haven't mentioned the fanservice 90's animes...

Nudity in of its self, doesn't = fanservice by default. nudity without a purpose, stupid camera agle type BS poses for no reason what so ever, panty shots, over sized boobs, close ups of such, ect, is fanservice.

It's very obvious when something is fanservice, because It's very clear such doesn't belong, and doesn't have anything to do with the story, It's there just for eyecandy.

By your definition of fanservice, anything with even alittle bit of nudity period, would be considered fanservice, nomatter the situation or how It's executed?

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Zoltor

Nudity in of its self, doesn't = fanservice by default. nudity without a purpose, stupid camera agle type BS poses for no reason what so ever, panty shots, over sized boobs, close ups of such, ect, is fanservice.

It's very obvious when something is fanservice, because It's very clear such doesn't belong, and doesn't have anything to do with the story, It's there just for eyecandy.

By your definition of fanservice, anything with even alittle bit of nudity period, would be considered fanservice, nomatter the situation or how It's executed?

<sarcasm>
So i guess by your definintion that the random bathing scenes in ranma, Lupin, cutey honey or dragonball had another purpose than fanservice then?
</sarcasm>

It's very easy to say that ecchi fanservice is a bad current trend , but it existed way before the year 2000. It is just that you didn't bother looking for it or you haven't seen those animes yourself.

Just look at the Cuty Honey's openings and it likely has more fanservice than any current ecchi anime openings

[Zoltor]

Originally Posted by hyl

So i guess by your definintion that the random bathing scenes in ranma, Lupin or dragonball had another purpose than fanservice then?

There was absolutely nothing random about bathing in Ranma 1/2. Furthurmore such scenes lasted less then a second in most cases(no lingering camera shots or anything), to pull off the male not use to living with a female gag, and to introduce the transformation aspect.

If you think the bathing in Ranma 1/2 was random, you're blind. Also nothing is even shown, so if that's fanservice, lol that's a pretty crappy try at fanservice.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Zoltor

There was absolutely nothing random about bathing in Ranma 1/2. Furthurmore such scenes lasted less then a second in most cases(no lingering camera shots or anything), to pull off the male not use to living with a female gag, and to introduce the transformation aspect.

If you think the bathing in Ranma 1/2 was random, you're blind. Also nothing is even shown, so if that's fanservice, lol that's a pretty crappy try at fanservice.

Are we even talking about the same show?
So you are saying that this is supposed to be ok


The whole running gag (curse) in Ranma was that Ranma changes in a girl when he get doused by cold water and that did happen alot (pretty much almost every episode) but plenty of times that caused an awkward situation
Also i can't justify the other character's nudity or the boob grabs, bra and panty stealings by Happosai and other things as "non-fanservice"

Also you are completely neglicting about what i said about the other older animes

[Zoltor]

Originally Posted by hyl

Are we even talking about the same show?
So you are saying that this is supposed to be ok


The whole running gag (curse) in Ranma was that Ranma changes in a girl when he get doused by cold water and that did happen alot

Also you are completely neglicting about what i said about the other older animes

Well she is a male, so us normal people don't register that as sexual. Although I suppose you can call it fan service for females, since such is pretty much their fantasy.

[Tornado The Dragon]

1990-2000>~2010-present>2000-2010 imho

[winhlp32]

I think we can at least all agree that anime art is objectively better now than it ever was.