Abilities and Technologies: Speculation based on Science, Metaphysics, and Magic

[Inept Forum User]

Just wondering, how likely would it be that īsaz was part of the Brunhild's anti-healing runes?

Originally Posted by Doom_Paperclip

Which Volume was that conversation between Aleister and Heaven Canceler from? I remember it taking place, but I didn't recall Aleister explicitly mentioning he was aiming beyond Level 6. If possible, I would like to see for myself.

Originally Posted by ElpIDa

I think it was in volume 12 or 13, not sure exactly which one of them.

Volume 13 Epilogue.

[Hiromin]

Originally Posted by Inept Forum User

Volume 13 Epilogue.

Thanks for the clarification

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by ElpIDa

Thanks for the clarification

Seconded. I found the section in the pdfs. That is indeed a valuable passage.

Spoiler for @LevelSeven:

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

im not accusing you, sorry if it sounded like that

No offense taken.

cendrillons body is really messed up and mjölnirs too btu they would still loose to double-saint acqua and fiamma

Yeah, but both Acqua and Fiamma were born with most of their power. The GRS spell just helped them make the most of what they already had, so it's not a fair comparison.

and the information which she gained are mostly from the church (on the illegal way ), furthermore, kanzaki agreed to that which means the church said the same...

We don't know where Birdway got the information from. As the leader of a prominent illegal cabal, that puts in her in opposition of Necessarius. I doubt she would take anything they say at face value without verifying it herself. We can probably trust her knowledge on this matter.

Saying that the Church said the same thing means it must be a lie is an Ad Hominem logical fallacy. You can't use that in an argument.

you said yourself that othinus's actions would set themselfes back with the 50% failure, hat means that the distortion of her mere existence as majin would be smaller than the distortion of fiamma in LSPAD while he changed the while world into heaven -_-
this was the case in NT4...

But you have too little information to support that. We don't know what parameters would be used to adjust IT's strength, if it works that way.

im not sure if we should take it so literally, does this mean that if she tries to eat she will be unable to do it because she is now in "failure-mode"? or if she tries to speak she will not be able to?

i think that part is more directed to her actions as majin, not by each and every movement...

Of course routine activities would not follow that pattern. Just staying alive and acting normally doesn't hold much potential in either a positive or negative direction. However, whenever she actually tries actively change the world in some way, the 50% comes into play, whether it is in using magic or manipulating people.

the reason why she tried to escape it was because she couldnt effectively warp reality with her 50-50 powers...

Originally Posted by Volume NT9

She held the reference point of a right hand needed to repair the world. She possessed the power and knowledge of a Magic God needed to use it effectively.

She only had to wave her hand.

The odds of success had lowered to 50/50, but she still had the right to take the challenge.

Othinus can manipulate reality perfectly fine even at 50%. However, even if she succeed in that state, her negative possibilities would eventually ruin the new world she had created without a tool like Gungnir to keep them in check.

yeah, if she is in "success-mode"

Originally Posted by Volume NT8

“Even if I do not win, that’s fine with me,” said the eyepatch-wearing girl in a groan. “What matters is unifying my infinite possibilities. Success and failure were always half and half. No matter how much experience I built up and no matter how great a defeat I suffered, it had no bearing on what would happen next time. I never knew which direction to work in or which way to turn. …I wanted the lance to escape that situation. Instead of having half success and half failure, I would have 100% success.”

“You can’t mean…”

Ollerus finally caught on.

But this truth was truly a nightmare.

“You can’t mean!!”

“I only needed it to lean in one direction or the other,” she announced as a grin split across her face. “It did not matter if I completed the lance and gained 100% success or became a fairy and gained 100% failure. My actions were sealed by the constant 50% balance between success and failure. I could never know if my actions had achieved heads or tails, so I could never know if I could build on top of that action. Moving forward with constant heads is one possible path. But if I know every path I choose will come up tails, I can achieve 100% success by always moving in the opposite direction of the path I choose!! Failing as a magic god acts as a guidepost towards success as a magic god!! …You two meant nothing from the beginning. Whether I won or lost, you could not stop me from becoming a complete magic god!!”

If she had won, she would have become a complete magic god.

If she had lost, she would have become a complete magic god.

“That’s why that Imagine Breaker was so irritating! In a way, it did hold the possibility of driving me to 100% failure, but its role as a reference point and repair point for the world meant it clashed with my desire to change the world. With that method of achieving 100% failure off the table, I had no choice but to invite 100% success with the lance. I never thought you would bring such an interesting alternative approach!!”

She had only needed to obtain one extreme or the other.

“Ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!! I was afraid of ending up in a twisted situation where I thought I was constantly failing but hit a dead end while walking down the opposite path. Once you reach my level, it is hard to experience such a thorough defeat that it is impossible to recover. That is why I had hoped you would do it for me. I knew you would eventually come to kill me! You really are a genius! Ha ha. A genius at being used by me no matter what you do!!”

Which is statically certain to happen. Her 50% constantly conspires to return all her actions to 0. While this prevents her from making any lasting accomplishments, this also protects her from suffering a decisive defeat. Eventually, she will obtain a success against GRS and wipe them out, which wouldn't help her one bit in the long run, but which is enough for the sake of our argument.

]not really, if you have +infinite and -infinite, you still have the infinite numbers between them...
this makes her powers in 50% mode so random...
100% on the other hand pushed her powers to the limits of each side, fairy spell = 100% failure and therefore it had the opposite, 100% success...
gungnir = 100% success, and as opposite: 100% failure...

Except, there is actually no mathematical, scientific or logical foundation for this argument whatsoever. You just made it up full cloth and insist that that's the way infinite possibilities work without a shred of evidence to support yourself.

In that case, tell me this. Why is it that the one time the consequences of Failure were fully illustrated, the time Othinus cut off her own arm in the process of cutting off Thor's (actually Ollerus') arm, the consequences were clearly tied to what she was trying to achieve? According to your theory, the chances of that happening were 1/infinity, which is practically 0. If 50% really worked the way you said it did, then anything else but Othinus' arm falling off would have happened.

as far as i remember it isnt teleporting the earth, he is moving it...

Semantics. "Teleportation" is a science side word, so maybe they just used "move" instead when it's a magic side technique. Case in point, Fiamma's ability to move instantly across space is never called teleportation.

I mean, if the Earth were actually moved and then stopped physically so fast that the result looked like teleporting, the g forces involved would kill almost every living thing on the planet. There is a reason astronauts need to train hard to withstand the acceleration involved in reaching space.

this was never stated, they are powerful but i wouldnt go as far as to say that they are that they are indestructible...

Oh, I'm sure that something overpowered like Curtana, HR or half a dozen other abilities could crush those lightning blades easily enough, but they are indestructible to Acqua. None of his spells could harm them, his water attacks would just vaporize in contact with them, making it impossible to shut off Thor's movement options from all 360 degrees, which means that regardless of whether Almighty Thor moves the Earth or teleports it, Acqua can never hit him and will therefore lose.

i know but it still doesnt mean that all abnormal minds can kill without any ill will...

I'll concede that. This point isn't that important to the match anyway.

which would trigger DP,

because it activates in the moment the target has any form of ill will against her, they will b affected before even pulling a trigger of a pistol, and this needs far less time than instructing magical creations to attack vento...

I didn't want to use this, but if you still won't concede, I'll have to remind you that Gremlin still has one more trump card. Sigyn, TAMNI's strongest support character.

We never actually got to see her in action because she was kidnapped off-screen by ninjas (I love how that's a thing that actually happens in TAMNI), but her ability is quite broken. In case you need reminding, she has the power to give 100% accurate suggestions. It works by giving her traits to fill in the flaws of her allies, allowing them to achieve certain success at what she advises them to do. Marian even speculated that if she could actually use it on herself, she might even be able to reach the territory of a Magic God. It is a vague, poorly defined power that might not even be magic, but if it works even half as good as it does on paper, then that's enough.

All Sigyn has to do is call Bersi on a cellphone and give him a suggestion "to win", or something like that. She doesn't even have to know who Bersi is fighting, thus protecting her from Divine Punishment. Bersi already has a big advantage against Vento, so adding that power on top would seal the deal.

[LevelSeven]

Spoiler for doom:

Originally Posted by Doom_Paperclip

Yeah, but both Acqua and Fiamma were born with most of their power. The GRS spell just helped them make the most of what they already had, so it's not a fair comparison.

doesnt exculde the fact that they changed their bodys, and that acqua gained DMM after going to GRS implies that they changed something in order to "clean" themselfes from their "original sin" which would mean that they changd their bodys

We don't know where Birdway got the information from. As the leader of a prominent illegal cabal, that puts in her in opposition of Necessarius. I doubt she would take anything they say at face value without verifying it herself. We can probably trust her knowledge on this matter.

well, if i think about it i cant find any other organization which would hhave this datas about Index, afterall, Necassarius "created" her

Saying that the Church said the same thing means it must be a lie is an Ad Hominem logical fallacy. You can't use that in an argument.

yeah, i cant say that the church is lying only because they did it on a different subject, but it can strengthen the doubt about their statements

But you have too little information to support that. We don't know what parameters would be used to adjust IT's strength, if it works that way.

well, we dont even know how IT looks like

Of course routine activities would not follow that pattern. Just staying alive and acting normally doesn't hold much potential in either a positive or negative direction. However, whenever she actually tries actively change the world in some way, the 50% comes into play, whether it is in using magic or manipulating people.

this is why IT isnt reacting to her stronger than to LSPAD, afterall, like you said, the 50-50 power would regulate itself, and make "smaller" distortions in the "great picture" of reality, while LSPAD is dictoring it on a great scale without regulation, which is th role of IB/IT/Dragon...

btw, didnt NT9 mentioned that IT/Dragon was about to come out after touma broke his hand because he tried to negate gungnir? he only broke his middle and index finger but the distortion wa big enough to let him feel that something tried to come out:

Spoiler for nt10:

Kamijou felt something like a chill run along his back.

He could feel something gathering in his broken right fist.

The destruction or severing of that fist seemed to act as some sort of trigger. He could feel in his skin that something was about to burst out.

at least for me it is enough to believe that IT/IB/Dragon is adjusting itself to the distorion of reality...
but of course, i cant prove it to 100%

Othinus can manipulate reality perfectly fine even at 50%. However, even if she succeed in that state, her negative possibilities would eventually ruin the new world she had created without a tool like Gungnir to keep them in check.

i never tried to say that she cant do it but that she wouldnt be able to completly warp reality after her wishes because the 50% failure would become annying

Which is statically certain to happen. Her 50% constantly conspires to return all her actions to 0. While this prevents her from making any lasting accomplishments, this also protects her from suffering a decisive defeat. Eventually, she will obtain a success against GRS and wipe them out, which wouldn't help her one bit in the long run, but which is enough for the sake of our argument.

does this also mean that she cant die in a battle where she used her 50%-powers? because if i understood it correctly she will always stay by 50-50, and never reach true success or failure, btu "being death" is such a ultimate failure

In that case, tell me this. Why is it that the one time the consequences of Failure were fully illustrated, the time Othinus cut off her own arm in the process of cutting off Thor's (actually Ollerus') arm, the consequences were clearly tied to what she was trying to achieve?

bt this would limit her infinite possibilities, afterall, if her failure is tied with the things she wants to accomplish, her statement with: "whatever i do, im always by 50/50" would be wrong
if she wants to create a apple, she would gain by failure, a banana, does this mean that she will always gain a banana instead of a apple if she fails? this would work for her because she could learn the "failure-side" of certain wishes, yes, she cant control if she will fail or not, but it would increase her chances to gain what she wants (despite being so small), maybe from 50% to 50.0000000000001%...

so, i hope what i wrote is at least a bit understandable

According to your theory, the chances of that happening were 1/infinity, which is practically 0. If 50% really worked the way you said it did, then anything else but Othinus' arm falling off would have happened.

all possibilities have the chance to happen, this includes "cutting ollerus's + her own arm off"... it isnt that only because of landing in the "failure-mode" she cant reach her desired goal, only that the chances to reach it are 1/infinite, she could gain anything, i always thought that the reason why she didnt create major side-effects is because she didnt use the 50-50 powers many times, and to her luck (or misfortune) it ended th way it was, doesnt exclude the possiblity that other things could have happened

Semantics. "Teleportation" is a science side word, so maybe they just used "move" instead when it's a magic side technique. Case in point, Fiamma's ability to move instantly across space is never called teleportation.

fiamma also never teleported, all the places he wet to had a open path, it could have been possible that he really "moved" to that place, afterall, teleportation could bring him anywhere

I mean, if the Earth were actually moved and then stopped physically so fast that the result looked like teleporting, the g forces involved would kill almost every living thing on the planet. There is a reason astronauts need to train hard to withstand the acceleration involved in reaching space.

depends on th amount of acceleration but this is scientifical, we have a magical spell it means that logic about the "should have happened as sideeffect from the point of view of a scientist" arent working

Oh, I'm sure that something overpowered like Curtana, HR or half a dozen other abilities could crush those lightning blades easily enough, but they are indestructible to Acqua. None of his spells could harm them, his water attacks would just vaporize in contact with them, making it impossible to shut off Thor's movement options from all 360 degrees, which means that regardless of whether Almighty Thor moves the Earth or teleports it, Acqua can never hit him and will therefore lose.

i dont think that acqua had no chance, thor has weaknesses, acqua too,
i would make it 65/35 in thors favor

I'll concede that. This point isn't that important to the match anyway.

i didnt saw this as a match
i saw this as two people who doesnt have any other hobby than to post to each other since 4-5 days about a LN they "dont hate"

I didn't want to use this, but if you still won't concede, I'll have to remind you that Gremlin still has one more trump card. Sigyn, TAMNI's strongest support character.

i accepted that einherjar kihara can attack her, but not that it would be simple, she has powers to protect herself, and this while she coughed blood, her abilitys would only go up, im not saying she would have a major power boost but that the stuff we saw arent her peak form...
i would say that it is 50-50 because bersis only defense is the "mortal wound"-barrier, and ventos attacks could be "hardly" used as non-mmortal attack, she did display one
the attack whih throwed touma into the air...

We never actually got to see her in action because she was kidnapped off-screen by ninjas (I love how that's a thing that actually happens in TAMNI), but her ability is quite broken.

maybe she will now give the ninjas naruto-verse jutsus

In case you need reminding, she has the power to give 100% accurate suggestions. It works by giving her traits to fill in the flaws of her allies, allowing them to achieve certain success at what she advises them to do. Marian even speculated that if she could actually use it on herself, she might even be able to reach the territory of a Magic God.

thanks, but i know her, she has some powers, i dont understand them, an kamachi didnt really try to explain it, maybe because she will become a major enemy in the next arcs

It is a vague, poorly defined power that might not even be magic, but if it works even half as good as it does on paper, then that's enough.

well, i dont really know why she didnt create her own army out of majins, and if this isnt working she could make them as powerful as saints or GRS-lvl, or even the lvl of ollerus...

her powers sound really good(somehow), i hope there will be more of her, but i doubt that

All Sigyn has to do is call Bersi on a cellphone and give him a suggestion "to win", or something like that. She doesn't even have to know who Bersi is fighting, thus protecting her from Divine Punishment.

yeah, this could work

Bersi already has a big advantage against Vento, so adding that power on top would seal the deal.

he alone? nah, i wouldnt say he has a big advantage, with sigyn? i think he wins

PS: why didnt she suggest freya to bring birth to her child?
it would have worked, from the way i understood her powers

[Hiromin]

So I've been thinking about something:
Gunha's power is described by Gensei as a power that "devides everything by zero" right? So, if we take the mathematical literal meaning:
Let's consider Everything/Anything = x
And in maths x/0=infinity
Then doesn't that mean that Gunha's power turns everything to infinity? That can imply he can make out of anything an infinity of possibilities. That would explain why the same punch of his has so many different and illogical attack/defence forms.

[SimoHalo]

Ok I have a question: do we know the speed of Mugino's Meltdowner?

[Doom_Paperclip]

Spoiler for @LevelSeven:

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

doesnt exculde the fact that they changed their bodys, and that acqua gained DMM after going to GRS implies that they changed something in order to "clean" themselfes from their "original sin" which would mean that they changd their bodys

But we were discussing how much power they gained from their modifications, not how much power they had in an absolute sense. Also, Acqua was born with DMM, check Volume 16 if you don't believe me. I'm currently too lazy to quote it right now.

well, if i think about it i cant find any other organization which would hhave this datas about Index, afterall, Necassarius "created" her

She's the leader of a prominent cabal and a Saint-level magician. She could have stolen information from them, or even worked it out with her using her talent in magic and her not inconsiderable resources.

at least for me it is enough to believe that IT/IB/Dragon is adjusting itself to the distorion of reality...
but of course, i cant prove it to 100%

It was about to break lose, but in the end it never did. It didn't show up, so how is that supposed to prove anything? Forget about 100%, you can't even reach 1% with that.

does this also mean that she cant die in a battle where she used her 50%-powers? because if i understood it correctly she will always stay by 50-50, and never reach true success or failure, btu "being death" is such a ultimate failure

Exactly. She can kill GRS because it doesn't count as ultimate success, but she can never die under ordinary circumstances because that would be an ultimate failure. The only ways to kill her are either to be so powerful you could overpower her at 100% in any case, or use a trick like the Fairy Spell (and even with the Fairy Spell, she could twist it to her own advantage for a while).

bt this would limit her infinite possibilities, afterall, if her failure is tied with the things she wants to accomplish, her statement with: "whatever i do, im always by 50/50" would be wrong

Not really, she has infinite possibilities in that her power can accomplish an infinite amount of things. Whenever she choses to do something, she picks two possibilities out of those infinite results, one where she succeeds and one where she fails, then randomly realizes one of the two.

If that weren't the case, then by your logic, success should be random too. Otherwise there would be no true symmetry between success and failure.

if she wants to create a apple, she would gain by failure, a banana, does this mean that she will always gain a banana instead of a apple if she fails? this would work for her because she could learn the "failure-side" of certain wishes, yes, she cant control if she will fail or not, but it would increase her chances to gain what she wants (despite being so small), maybe from 50% to 50.0000000000001%...

so, i hope what i wrote is at least a bit understandable

That's exactly what she did with her plan. Knowing that no matter how hard she worked on her plan, it would still fail 50% of the time, she set it up so that she would get what she wanted either way. If it worked she'd get 100% success and if it failed she'd get 100% failure, but either way she'd become a complete Magic God, a payout much greater than gaining either a banana or an apple. This is why Othinus is so terrifying even at 50%.

i dont think that acqua had no chance, thor has weaknesses, acqua too,
i would make it 65/35 in thors favor

Thor's weakness is that Almighty Thor only takes his target's attacks into account, so external factors can still harm him. The only way to harm him, then, is to lure him into a trap of some sort. However:

1) That was something that only Touma, who is used to fighting battles were analyzing his opponent's weakness is the only way to win, could find. Acqua, unaccustomed to being in a position of such disadvantage, would have a harder time of it.

2) Touma could only exploit that weakness because, unlike in this scenario, in NT10 Thor did not have Mjolnir backup. If he had, then Touma would have died in the first attack without having time to put it in motion. Thor only needs to attack at most two or three times to kill Acqua with his Lightning Blades, so what is Acqua supposed to do before that happens?

3) Worst comes to worst, Sigyn can give a call to Thor too.

i didnt saw this as a match
i saw this as two people who doesnt have any other hobby than to post to each other since 4-5 days about a LN they "dont hate"

I see it as a mental competition in good faith. Like those staged debates where one side has to argue that Stalin was actually a pretty great guy, despite knowing he really wasn't.

i accepted that einherjar kihara can attack her, but not that it would be simple, she has powers to protect herself, and this while she coughed blood, her abilitys would only go up, im not saying she would have a major power boost but that the stuff we saw arent her peak form...

Being at her peak form would only make her attacks deadlier and therefore less effective.

i would say that it is 50-50 because bersis only defense is the "mortal wound"-barrier, and ventos attacks could be "hardly" used as non-mmortal attack, she did display one
the attack whih throwed touma into the air...

Which would work against Touma, but Bersi, who was able to make a huge jump and slice a giant Nidhogg into ribbons, could land from that unharmed.

thanks, but i know her, she has some powers, i dont understand them, an kamachi didnt really try to explain it, maybe because she will become a major enemy in the next arcs

Personally I'm looking forwards to a ninja SS where it turns out the Koga are using her/being used by her to subdue all other ninja clans, forcing Hanzo to fight them. ITEM and Hamazura can join in too.

well, i dont really know why she didnt create her own army out of majins, and if this isnt working she could make them as powerful as saints or GRS-lvl, or even the lvl of ollerus...

The thing about reaching the territory of a Magic God was only a hypothetical situation where she could use her power on herself. It's broken, but not that broken. Besides, even if she could drastically power someone up, how would that help her? They wouldn't need her anymore once they obtained such power.

he alone? nah, i wouldnt say he has a big advantage, with sigyn? i think he wins

Yay!

PS: why didnt she suggest freya to bring birth to her child?
it would have worked, from the way i understood her powers

Why would she help Freyja? Once her problem was solved she wouldn't have a reason to fight for Gremlin anymore.

[allfictions]

I wonder why Gremlin didn't use their armies of Einherjar and Artificial Valkyries against the Alliance.

[Inept Forum User]

Originally Posted by allfictions

I wonder why Gremlin didn't use their armies of Einherjar and Artificial Valkyries against the Alliance.

I wonder why as well...

Maybe they were being kept in reserve, or were active on a battlefield we didn't see (assuming there were battlefields other than the ones we had a glimpse of)?

By the way, regarding the latter (I can't remember whether it was an army or a squadron for those - if the latter, there may be another possibility why we didn't see them) and the process to create them, do you reckon it is the case that the method is restricted to a specific implementer?

[Apoptosis]

Probably because no army can compare to their ultimate weapon, Othinus.

[SimoHalo]

Maybe the Valkyrie were still regenerating? Brunhild gave them quite a beatdown.

[Doom_Paperclip]

It's almost certain that all the Einherjar and Artificial Valkyries were deployed off-screen. In Volume NT10, when Thor singlehandedly owned all the members of Gremlin that had gathered together to take revenge on Othinus, the pile of bodies was noted to have about fifty or even a hundred people in it. From this we can deduce that we didn't even get to see a quarter of Gremlin's members in the Novels.

Since NT8 was supposed to be the final stage of their plan, it is doubtful that all those members were just twiddling their thumbs. Perhaps rear guard members might have been kept in reserve, but the front liners would have been working hard. The same would go for the Einherjar and Artificial Valkyries. It's sad, but there simply wasn't enough room in NT8 for all the action actually going on.

[SimoHalo]

More questions on Accelerator's Reflection.

Accelerator doesn't directly influence energy with his Reflection, right? He simply changes the direction of his attack. Does that mean that he could redirect something like an IMP

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

coming at him?

[LevelSeven]

Spoiler for doom:

Originally Posted by Doom_Paperclip

But we were discussing how much power they gained from their modifications, not how much power they had in an absolute sense. Also, Acqua was born with DMM, check Volume 16 if you don't believe me. I'm currently too lazy to quote it right now.

if this is the case than we could look at cendrillon and mijölnir who have really srange bodys after being modified, and the power they gaind would still be below terra
btw, i know that he was born with DMM-potential, but he only gained the power after joining GRS and "cleaning" his body from the "original sin"...
he is similar to artifical espers, like kuroko or mikoto, both was born with their respective potential but only after modifying their bodys they could use it

She's the leader of a prominent cabal and a Saint-level magician. She could have stolen information from them, or even worked it out with her using her talent in magic and her not inconsiderable resources.

this is also possible...
a scenario:
ou are telling a lie to your subordinates... would you keep the truth somewhere where you think it is save but where it can be stolen? exspecially if it is such a big secret?
i would change them too and let it look like the truth, i think this would fit into lauras "evil-side"

It was about to break lose, but in the end it never did. It didn't show up, so how is that supposed to prove anything? Forget about 100%, you can't even reach 1% with that.

vol.16 where acqua nearly killed touma, his body was more broken than only in "one or two places", but his power never did anythign like that, vol.3, his body was even more injured, he would have lost if accel didnt jump against him, but nowhere was mentioned anything about such a thing like in NT10...
means: it reacted stronger, why? well, i would say because reality was more distorted, which powered up IT, and therefore means that WW3-IT > vol.4 IT

Exactly. She can kill GRS because it doesn't count as ultimate success, but she can never die under ordinary circumstances because that would be an ultimate failure. The only ways to kill her are either to be so powerful you could overpower her at 100% in any case, or use a trick like the Fairy Spell (and even with the Fairy Spell, she could twist it to her own advantage for a while).

this discussion with you somehow changes my opinion about othinus's "broken-ness" into a even more dislike-able directions
forget HR, i will try to become a majin XD

Not really, she has infinite possibilities in that her power can accomplish an infinite amount of things. Whenever she choses to do something, she picks two possibilities out of those infinite results, one where she succeeds and one where she fails, then randomly realizes one of the two.

and this means that the failure is always the same if she does the same action?
but this is what im trying to say, it wouldnt make it into a 50-50-power,
ollerus mentioned that she could destroy the whole world or loose to a child in paper-scissor-stone, now, lets assume you are right, her powers would either let her choose the correct one, or the wrong one so that she loses, but by learning the failure-part she could increase her chances of winning, this would lower her chances to lose, which goes against the things both chars stated about a majins 50-50 powers

If that weren't the case, then by your logic, success should be random too. Otherwise there would be no true symmetry between success and failure.

not really, we are talking about infinity, if i take 1% of infinite it is still infinite and both sides would still be equal, 1% success options to 1996823% failure options are in the "infinite-space" equal

That's exactly what she did with her plan. Knowing that no matter how hard she worked on her plan, it would still fail 50% of the time, she set it up so that she would get what she wanted either way. If it worked she'd get 100% success and if it failed she'd get 100% failure, but either way she'd become a complete Magic God, a payout much greater than gaining either a banana or an apple. This is why Othinus is so terrifying even at 50%.

i dont think that it was what she planned...
she didnt except a spell like the fairy spell, she was suprised of ollerus's idea, it worked out for her, she only planned for success, therefore the whole gungnir plan, her #1 and only option, but the fairy spell (which wasnt planned by her) was used after being affected, she used the failure part and created gungnir for herself, this wasnt part of her original plan, but she reached her goal, having 100% success...

Thor's weakness is that Almighty Thor only takes his target's attacks into account, so external factors can still harm him. The only way to harm him, then, is to lure him into a trap of some sort.

or attacking from all directions

1) That was something that only Touma, who is used to fighting battles were analyzing his opponent's weakness is the only way to win, could find. Acqua, unaccustomed to being in a position of such disadvantage, would have a harder time of it.

he is a veteran of fighting, he is even able to know where a attack is coming
only by the wind pressure it creates, he isnt like fiamma or accel who are "unskilled but powerful"

2) Touma could only exploit that weakness because, unlike in this scenario, in NT10 Thor did not have Mjolnir backup. If he had, then Touma would have died in the first attack without having time to put it in motion. Thor only needs to attack at most two or three times to kill Acqua with his Lightning Blades, so what is Acqua supposed to do before that happens?

we can let the "touma would have died"-part out because, to be honest, he would have also survive in that scenario, something would have happened

but acqua has mach 1+ reaction speed, and the lightning-blades arent so fast, touma evaded them with a injured body

3) Worst comes to worst, Sigyn can give a call to Thor too.

we can also say: Komoe-sensei >>>>>> everyone because sigyn says: "Win"
i would really like to hear more about her powers

I see it as a mental competition in good faith. Like those staged debates where one side has to argue that Stalin was actually a pretty great guy, despite knowing he really wasn't.

if one part is destined to lose than it wouldnt be a competition
it is a one-sided-slaughter like "WW3" :/

Being at her peak form would only make her attacks deadlier and therefore less effective.

not each one, it would make it her also faster and more accurate, she coughed blood way before she fought against touma, her movements would only gain a upgrade

Which would work against Touma, but Bersi, who was able to make a huge jump and slice a giant Nidhogg into ribbons, could land from that unharmed.

but it shows that she has non-lethal attacks, we only didnt see much

Personally I'm looking forwards to a ninja SS where it turns out the Koga are using her/being used by her to subdue all other ninja clans, forcing Hanzo to fight them. ITEM and Hamazura can join in too.

this actually sounds awesome, exspecially it ITEM is doing it outside of AC i would like to see them complaining about the forest ad all that stuff, and shiage needs to carry all the stuff
together with that, i would also want a SS with vampires and sisters

The thing about reaching the territory of a Magic God was only a hypothetical situation where she could use her power on herself. It's broken, but not that broken. Besides, even if she could drastically power someone up, how would that help her? They wouldn't need her anymore once they obtained such power.

maybe giving them orders with special rules?
like "as long as you follow my orders" with the effect that if they break it they turn into 15cm fairys

Yay!

Im happy that you are happy!

Why would she help Freyja? Once her problem was solved she wouldn't have a reason to fight for Gremlin anymore.

but it could be possible
could she tell a person who has cancer, "heal yourself" and it would work?
this would make her powers really convenient

@elpida

So I've been thinking about something:
Gunha's power is described by Gensei as a power that "devides everything by zero" right? So, if we take the mathematical literal meaning:
Let's consider Everything/Anything = x
And in maths x/0=infinity
Then doesn't that mean that Gunha's power turns everything to infinity? That can imply he can make out of anything an infinity of possibilities. That would explain why the same punch of his has so many different and illogical attack/defence forms.

actually, it isnt defined what x/0 is, take a calculator and make 5/0 or 99/0 and the answer is always "Error"...
mostlikely i think gensei said that because he expected something unknown, "non-defined"-supernatural-phenomen

btw, the "infinite-power" sounds a bit to magical for me

@simonhalo

More questions on Accelerator's Reflection.

i dont really understand why he wouldnt be able to reflect it, it is a punch, much faster and stronger but still a simple punch

Accelerator doesn't directly influence energy with his Reflection, right? He simply changes the direction of his attack.

dont forget that he can also increase or decrease the force of each attack

[SimoHalo]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

i dont really understand why he wouldnt be able to reflect it, it is a punch, much faster and stronger but still a simple punch

Well, I don't really know, and since I suck at physics I'm asking someone else who might know better.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

dont forget that he can also increase or decrease the force of each attack

But that isn't Redirection, isn't that vector control?

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by SimoHalo

Well, I don't really know, and since I suck at physics I'm asking someone else who might know better.

im also not the best one in that subject but i dont see how flash's punch could hit him
but, a "liked" explanation is "because he is faster than light"

But that isn't Redirection, isn't that vector control?

yeah, reflection in its core only changes the direction into the exact opposite...
he can consciously strenghten the reflected attack like he did with muginos and kazakiris beams...

[SimoHalo]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

im also not the best one in that subject but i dont see how flash's punch could hit him
but, a "liked" explanation is "because he is faster than light"

To pull off an IMP Flash has to travel under the speed of light though. And since Accel has shown instantenous movement with his wings...

[Hiromin]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

actually, it isnt defined what x/0 is, take a calculator and make 5/0 or 99/0 and the answer is always "Error"...
mostlikely i think gensei said that because he expected something unknown, "non-defined"-supernatural-phenomen

btw, the "infinite-power" sounds a bit to magical for me

Yeah, sorry, my mistake I didn't express it correctly xD
I actually meant:
x/0--->(tends towards) infinity.
Indeed x/0=Impossible, but its limit mathematically equals infinity
lim x/0 = infinity
I really think this has something to do with Gunha's power. I don't think he simply meant something unknown. Why would he choose that way to say it precisely? Why "devides by zero"?

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by ElpIDa

Yeah, sorry, my mistake I didn't express it correctly xD

i know what you mean

I actually meant:
x/0--->(tends towards) infinity.
Indeed x/0=Impossible, but its limit mathematically equals infinity
lim x/0 = infinity

in terms of pure logical reasonings i would agree since 0 can fit infinite times into a random number x, if it is 0/0, the outcome should be 1 since 0 fits only once into 0

but it isnt defined because of exactly this part, to complicated, and maths reqiures proofs, and i think it is not possible to proove x/0= infinite...

but since im not a professional methematician im not sure

I really think this has something to do with Gunha's power. I don't think he simply meant something unknown. Why would he choose that way to say it precisely? Why "devides by zero"?

maybe because he is a scientist
they are always talking so comlicated that most people dont understand a single word

[Doom_Paperclip]

Limit of x that tends towards infinity is not equivalent to infinity. Infinity is not a number, otherwise you could do:

∞ + 1= ∞, therefore 1 = 0. Since any number n * 1 = n and any number n * 0 = 0, then any number is equal to 0, the concept of quantity is a lie and nothing exists.

Spoiler for @LevelSeven:

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

if this is the case than we could look at cendrillon and mijölnir who have really srange bodys after being modified, and the power they gaind would still be below terra
btw, i know that he was born with DMM-potential, but he only gained the power after joining GRS and "cleaning" his body from the "original sin"...
he is similar to artifical espers, like kuroko or mikoto, both was born with their respective potential but only after modifying their bodys they could use it

Cendrillion's case isn't valid. Her modifications were supposed to be a punishment, not a power-up, so her current perks are just a side effect of being turned into furniture and back.

As for Mjolnir and Terra, surely you jest. Mjolnir is Saint level. Up until Kanzaki figured out she could use Saint Peter's spell, she was having her ass handed to her in that fight. Terra can only negate one attack at a time, but Mjolnir has multiple attack options, including several bludgeoning and lightning attacks, which she can cycle through faster than Terra can react to. To make things worse, Terra's GRS constitution means he can't use Saint Peter's spell. Even if Terra could miraculously land a blow, Mjolnir can reconstitute herself after being broken into pieces, so his flour blade would do nothing. I'd pick the human drum over the zealot any day of the week.

this is also possible...
a scenario:
ou are telling a lie to your subordinates... would you keep the truth somewhere where you think it is save but where it can be stolen? exspecially if it is such a big secret?
i would change them too and let it look like the truth, i think this would fit into lauras "evil-side"

This is TAMNI, where Gambit Pileups are commonplace and almost nothing can be taken at face value. I doubt Birdway would be so easily fooled. At the very least, this means that the information is plausible enough to be true.

vol.16 where acqua nearly killed touma, his body was more broken than only in "one or two places", but his power never did anythign like that, vol.3, his body was even more injured, he would have lost if accel didnt jump against him, but nowhere was mentioned anything about such a thing like in NT10...
means: it reacted stronger, why? well, i would say because reality was more distorted, which powered up IT, and therefore means that WW3-IT > vol.4 IT

Or maybe it's because in Volumes 3 and 16 his IB hand wasn't one of the damaged parts, whereas against Othinus his IB hand took a beating punching attacks that can wipe away multiple planets? Again, you have nothing.

this discussion with you somehow changes my opinion about othinus's "broken-ness" into a even more dislike-able directions
forget HR, i will try to become a majin XD

I'm surprised that Gungnir and the Crossbow hadn't already bought you over. Those are my two favorite attacks in the series. It'll cost a fortune to animate them though, assuming Index V comes along before the heat death of the universe.

i dont think that it was what she planned...
she didnt except a spell like the fairy spell, she was suprised of ollerus's idea, it worked out for her, she only planned for success, therefore the whole gungnir plan, her #1 and only option, but the fairy spell (which wasnt planned by her) was used after being affected, she used the failure part and created gungnir for herself, this wasnt part of her original plan, but she reached her goal, having 100% success...

Nope, she planned for both success and failure, proving that her powers work the way I said they work, not yours. Here's the proof:

“I only needed it to lean in one direction or the other,” she announced as a grin split across her face. “It did not matter if I completed the lance and gained 100% success or became a fairy and gained 100% failure. My actions were sealed by the constant 50% balance between success and failure. I could never know if my actions had achieved heads or tails, so I could never know if I could build on top of that action. Moving forward with constant heads is one possible path. But if I know every path I choose will come up tails, I can achieve 100% success by always moving in the opposite direction of the path I choose!! Failing as a magic god acts as a guidepost towards success as a magic god!! …You two meant nothing from the beginning. Whether I won or lost, you could not stop me from becoming a complete magic god!!”

If she had won, she would have become a complete magic god.

If she had lost, she would have become a complete magic god.

“That’s why that Imagine Breaker was so irritating! In a way, it did hold the possibility of driving me to 100% failure, but its role as a reference point and repair point for the world meant it clashed with my desire to change the world. With that method of achieving 100% failure off the table, I had no choice but to invite 100% success with the lance. I never thought you would bring such an interesting alternative approach!!”

She had only needed to obtain one extreme or the other.

“Ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!! I was afraid of ending up in a twisted situation where I thought I was constantly failing but hit a dead end while walking down the opposite path. Once you reach my level, it is hard to experience such a thorough defeat that it is impossible to recover. That is why I had hoped you would do it for me. I knew you would eventually come to kill me! You really are a genius! Ha ha. A genius at being used by me no matter what you do!!”

By the point Othinus had built up that plan, her battle against the world had essentially been over. No matter what the result, she would accomplish her goal. The lance had not been an irreplaceable piece of her plan. It had been nothing more than one of a few different branches on a chart. And she had managed to hide that fact.

“So let me say it again: thank you,” declared the eyepatch-wearing girl with a smile splitting across her face. “To use your own words, the lance was my first hope and not using it was my second hope. I can’t deny that this is making me feel a bit ill, but the end result is the same. Now, the time has come for me to spread my wings. I will rule over this world in my proper form!!”

Here's some salt and some ketchup. Eating your own words can be a bitter experience, so I hope they'll help.

or attacking from all directions

Except, Acqua can't do that because the Lightning Blades get in the way. Thor doesn't even have to move them, they make it impossible to completely surround him just by existing.

he is a veteran of fighting, he is even able to know where a attack is coming
only by the wind pressure it creates, he isnt like fiamma or accel who are "unskilled but powerful"

but acqua has mach 1+ reaction speed, and the lightning-blades arent so fast, touma evaded them with a injured body

That would only help him if Thor wasn't using Almighty mode, but in this scenario he is. The spell ensures that his attacks will hit, regardless of the opponent's skill or speed. It calculates things out so that by the time the world has been moved, it's already too late for the target to block, evade or lessen the damage.

The only defense is to either have a constant 360 degrees protection superior to Thor's attacks, like Fiamma, or be so fast, you can dodge before you even start moving, something that hasn't happened yet in this series. I repeat, Acqua doesn't stand a chance.

Also, this is besides the point, but the Lightning Blades would actually be quite fast. An average person can swing their arms at a few meters per second, so the tip of the Lightning Blades would be moving at a few kilometers per second. Touma being able to dodge them means nothing, his precognition even let him deal with Accelerator's Black Wings.

not each one, it would make it her also faster and more accurate, she coughed blood way before she fought against touma, her movements would only gain a upgrade

Frankly, I find you overrate Vento. Sure, she's strong, but without Divine Punishment she's not even close to Saint level. I'd say her combat skill is about the same as Bersi's, but in her powers have awful compatibility against him.

maybe giving them orders with special rules?
like "as long as you follow my orders" with the effect that if they break it they turn into 15cm fairys

But she can't give orders, her power is to give suggestions.

but it could be possible
could she tell a person who has cancer, "heal yourself" and it would work?
this would make her powers really convenient

My guess is that one of the reasons Kamachi took her out of the equation so fast is so that he wouldn't have to deal with questions like these