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Old 2016-06-15, 12:41   Link #1541
The Green One
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I wouldn't hold my breath on that. Saber card seems to be Illya's go to offense card, also since she's the heroine too.
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Old 2016-06-15, 19:20   Link #1542
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I actually agree with that.
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Old 2016-06-23, 08:17   Link #1543
Kanon
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It's time.

Spoiler for 42:
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Old 2016-06-23, 10:40   Link #1544
Harry Dresden
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That single last spoiler image is the most I have been excited about fate in years.
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Old 2016-06-23, 11:02   Link #1545
The Green One
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Now we play the waiting game.


Just think, we'll likely see this animated in a year or two.
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Old 2016-06-23, 12:16   Link #1546
dere_lover21
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So this version of shirou has a snowy UBW while the the heroic spirit EMIYA has a barren waste land. Hhhhmmmmm........ Still waiting for the illya shirou version to go badass on us. Like *suprise counterfeiter* with the power of Avenger or Acher with guns. Is it me or iris and kiritsugu adopt shirou because he is the angra mainyu because they already have illya the non-corrupted grail while they don't have a seal to contain the angra mainyu.
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Old 2016-06-23, 12:19   Link #1547
GDB
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Angra Mainyu isn't a thing in the Illyaverse.
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Old 2016-06-23, 12:41   Link #1548
dere_lover21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Angra Mainyu isn't a thing in the Illyaverse.
Cant be to sure about that. But then again it is just a speculation in my part.
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Old 2016-06-23, 12:43   Link #1549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
It's time.

Spoiler for 42:
Damn i'm so hype for this
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Old 2016-06-23, 12:53   Link #1550
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dere_lover21 View Post
Cant be to sure about that. But then again it is just a speculation in my part.
Angra Mainyu only existed in FSN because he was summoned by the Einzberns during the Third War. The Third War (well, any War, really) do not seem to have occurred in the Illyaverse. Even if they did, the Einzberns had secluded themselves so obviously could not have summoned him.

There's plenty of evidence to showcase that he isn't a thing, and absolutely zero evidence to show that he is a thing.
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Old 2016-06-23, 13:13   Link #1551
dere_lover21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Angra Mainyu only existed in FSN because he was summoned by the Einzberns during the Third War. The Third War (well, any War, really) do not seem to have occurred in the Illyaverse. Even if they did, the Einzberns had secluded themselves so obviously could not have summoned him.

There's plenty of evidence to showcase that he isn't a thing, and absolutely zero evidence to show that he is a thing.
Dont forget that avenger got a power to steal someone's life. Just like he stole shirou's daily life because he was jealous of him and just to heal bazzet. But then again I'm sure you want illya's shirou go full on badass mode with guns and white hair like the emiya on fate/extra right.... the author like to be secretive about this stuff like miyu for example she was a holy grail in a different world. But wont it hurt the author to make the illya's shirou be a badass not just a ultimate househusband material.
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Old 2016-06-23, 13:46   Link #1552
Harry Dresden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Angra Mainyu only existed in FSN because he was summoned by the Einzberns during the Third War. The Third War (well, any War, really) do not seem to have occurred in the Illyaverse. Even if they did, the Einzberns had secluded themselves so obviously could not have summoned him.

There's plenty of evidence to showcase that he isn't a thing, and absolutely zero evidence to show that he is a thing.
That's outright wrong as the only wars we know for sure were prevented were 4th and fifth. We know nothing else beyond that.

Einzberns secluding themselves can be interpreted in many ways - they were "secluded" even in the mainline FSN in a sense - they had a pretty great secret to keep. In Prillya there were hints that MA and Church were aware of what might go down in Fuyuki. And Caren for one seemed to think it was ridiculous to even think that the likes of Rin did not know about what was going on in Fuyuki, which seems to suggest more that the cut off was just before 4th war and Before Rin could actually learn about what is going on. It would not make sense to hold a war in Fuyuki without Tohsaka approval outright. And we know that Tohsaka and Matou have same relationship as in mainline franchise too. Indeed a lot of hints seem to suggest nobody knowing Einzberns had something to do with whatever Kiritsugu and Iris did.

Also Luvia and Rin are still rivals and the family rivalry started in third war(albeit it could happen without it as long as situation is similar).

Overall so far we can only say for sure that Kiritsugu and Iris did something to prevent the wars from 4 to 5 and did something to Einzberns(and there are implications there's some sort of power struggle going on behind the scenes even now).

The story most likely will explore it after we are finished with 3rei plotline moving conflict to Illya's world - there is enough foreshadowing within manga alone, but Herz adaptation seems to have added even more specific cases of even more foreshadowing, like
Spoiler:
. which most likely were additions due to Hiroyama - just like the "I pray" rewording.
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Old 2016-06-23, 13:55   Link #1553
Levani
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I think GDB meant the MiyuVerse, not Prisma. We know Kiritsugu did something to prevent the war in Prisma, but same cannot be said in MiyuVerse.
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Old 2016-06-23, 14:02   Link #1554
Harry Dresden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levani View Post
I think GDB meant the MiyuVerse, not Prisma. We know Kiritsugu did something to prevent the war in Prisma, but same cannot be said in MiyuVerse.
Illyaverse seems to be quite specific, talking about Einzberns and all...

But yeah, I doubt it is inside any grails in Miyu's world. Different grail system, World problems, etc. It still exists as a being tho, but not one relevant to Miyu's world(unless some twist happens, as we still have to get tangible explanations on what got borked in their world), as Ainsworths(who are still most likely that world's equivalent of Einzberns) seem to be sole inventors of the card grail system, inviting Matous and others into a war and then turning them into their puppets, it seems.
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Old 2016-06-23, 14:10   Link #1555
quigonkenny
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My headcanon is as so: HGWs 1-3 happened normally. "Something" happened in place of HGW 4 (which caused the event in which Shirou was orphaned and adopted by Kerry), but the end result was the effective neutering of the Greater Grail by Kerry and Iri, something they'd been planning since the baby Kuro flashback or before. Since then, they've basically been erasing the Fuyuki HGW from existence by the elimination of those who know about it, either through mental manipulation or through Kerry's methods. This explains why Rin doesn't know anything about it, yet everything that led up to her and Sakura being separated and the latter becoming a Matou still occurred. Might also explain why (if it is the case) Miyu!Sakura appears to have been wormed, but Illya!Sakura has not. Illya!Zouken is no longer around. Obviously, certain knowing targets are beyond their reach (like a certain second generation lord and a certain Wizard Marshall), or they may even be in on it.
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Old 2016-06-23, 14:15   Link #1556
Harry Dresden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
My headcanon is as so: HGWs 1-3 happened normally. "Something" happened in place of HGW 4 (which caused the event in which Shirou was orphaned and adopted by Kerry), but the end result was the effective neutering of the Greater Grail by Kerry and Iri, something they'd been planning since the baby Kuro flashback or before. Since then, they've basically been erasing the Fuyuki HGW from existence by the elimination of those who know about it, either through mental manipulation or through Kerry's methods. This explains why Rin doesn't know anything about it, yet everything that led up to her and Sakura being separated and the latter becoming a Matou still occurred. Might also explain why (if it is the case) Miyu!Sakura appears to have been wormed, but Illya!Sakura has not. Illya!Zouken is no longer around. Obviously, certain knowing targets are beyond their reach (like a certain second generation lord and a certain Wizard Marshall), or they may even be in on it.


Yep, seems about right.

Kerry and Iris did some dark stuff, yet:
- Rin still seems to have no parents.
- Shirou is still an orphan. Still has obsession with justice and the singular nature that comes from a tragedy. But since he has a proper functioning family, its less...intense?
- Sakura is still Sakura. We actually do not know if she has or has not been - she still has that hair color so most likely she has been. We will most likely find out as that backstory seemed to have struck some strings for Rin.
- Illya world's Kirei seems to be dead? Since Caren is here and all. Caren being there also does not seem to be a coincidence, especially with Herz additions.

Zel seems to be aware of SOMETHING and we had hints that there's some sort of power struggle going on within MA too(what's with Bazett and Rin/Luvia having conflicting orders and Bazet's quote about Old Man having interfered by sending them).

Irisviel also said something akin to "as long as I am alive it should not work" so most likely Iris is some sort of seal right now.

Frankly I would not be surprised if Hiroyama pulls off a Prilyaverse version of "civil war over the grail" as final arc.
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Old 2016-06-23, 14:19   Link #1557
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Dresden View Post
That's outright wrong as the only wars we know for sure were prevented were 4th and fifth. We know nothing else beyond that.

Einzberns secluding themselves can be interpreted in many ways - they were "secluded" even in the mainline FSN in a sense - they had a pretty great secret to keep. In Prillya there were hints that MA and Church were aware of what might go down in Fuyuki. And Caren for one seemed to think it was ridiculous to even think that the likes of Rin did not know about what was going on in Fuyuki, which seems to suggest more that the cut off was just before 4th war and Before Rin could actually learn about what is going on. It would not make sense to hold a war in Fuyuki without Tohsaka approval outright. And we know that Tohsaka and Matou have same relationship as in mainline franchise too. Indeed a lot of hints seem to suggest nobody knowing Einzberns had something to do with whatever Kiritsugu and Iris did.
The Einzberns were preparing for a grand ritual, and were going to use Illya for that purpose. That's why Kiritsugu stopped them. Neither Rin nor Luvia had heard of them, and nothing suggests it's because Kiritsugu and Irisviel were putting a gag order out or anything. It's because the family had secluded themselves completely. That's supposed to be the difference between Prisma and FSN: that the Holy Grail War did not start 200 years ago because the Einzberns secluded themselves.

Quote:
Also Luvia and Rin are still rivals and the family rivalry started in third war(albeit it could happen without it as long as situation is similar).
As with many things in a spin-off parody, things are the way they are because that's how they were in the original work. It's why Shirou is still Kiritsugu's adopted son, for instance. There was obviously no 4th War, yet here he is. And while we don't know the exact basis behind the Einzbern's grand ritual, it seems asinine that such a secluded family would bring in a Magus Killer outsider for any reason. But that's how the scenario is in the original work, so that's how it is here.

Further proof is Waver. He's basically the same as he is in FSN, yet there was never a 4th War. Implying things aren't the way they are because of the source material would be saying that Rider had absolutely zero influence on his life.

Quote:
Overall so far we can only say for sure that Kiritsugu and Iris did something to prevent the wars from 4 to 5 and did something to Einzberns(and there are implications there's some sort of power struggle going on behind the scenes even now).
There's more evidence to support no wars having happened than that they did happen the same as FSN.

Quote:
Spoiler:
Going to need a citation for this, as I don't recall it happening.
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Old 2016-06-23, 15:15   Link #1558
Harry Dresden
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Herz Anime Original Additions that seem to hint at things beyond 3rei:
  • EP4 had anime original scene of
    Spoiler:
  • EP6 had the anime original scene
    Spoiler:
    . It connects to the previous scene in 2wei where its explored that taking out the card would end Kuro.
  • Ep7 has Caren in the church and they replicated the interior perfectly from VN so its obviously same church. We do not see who she is talking to.
  • Ep8 had anime original scene indicating that
    Spoiler:
    . There's a variation of that within manga too.
  • Ep10 has Bazett outright state that
    Spoiler:

Won't go into discussions over other things, since I don't think "its because its parody, lol!" is an argument viable for debates.

Last edited by Harry Dresden; 2016-06-23 at 15:36.
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Old 2016-06-23, 16:24   Link #1559
quigonkenny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Dresden View Post
Herz Anime Original Additions that seem to hint at things beyond 3rei:
  • EP4 had anime original scene of
    Spoiler:
  • EP6 had the anime original scene
    Spoiler:
    . It connects to the previous scene in 2wei where its explored that taking out the card would end Kuro.
  • Ep7 has Caren in the church and they replicated the interior perfectly from VN so its obviously same church. We do not see who she is talking to.
  • Ep8 had anime original scene indicating that
    Spoiler:
    . There's a variation of that within manga too.
  • Ep10 has Bazett outright state that
    Spoiler:

Won't go into discussions over other things, since I don't think "its because its parody, lol!" is an argument viable for debates.
I just reread the manga, and some of that is in there. The two Bazett parts (Ep 6 and 10) specifically, though I think they were just in one scene.

From Caren's actions at the end of 2wei (manga), it's pretty clear she knows a lot about the HGW, so perhaps the Ep 8 scene you mentioned is just clarification.

I haven't seen either 2wei anime (the softcore loli pr0n got too much for me), so I can't place any of those scenes in context, so I could be wrong about some of it. The Ep 10 part, as you describe it, is pretty much verbatim out of the manga, though.

I would note that in the manga, Iri seems to take Caren's knowledge of the Grail as a given. Perhaps the Church was in on its dissolution.
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Last edited by quigonkenny; 2016-06-23 at 16:58.
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Old 2016-06-23, 21:27   Link #1560
dere_lover21
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Remember the girl in miyu's world angra mainyu was a little girl. While miyu is the mirror image of illya in the other world. Then who is the angra mainyu in the illya's world version? The only suspect I can point is shirou due to his ambiguous adoption of kiritsugu right before they stop the HGW in their world. Avenger has the ability to shape shift or shirou might be the angra mainyu himself without him realizing it that's why kiritsugu and iris adopt him and seal him to give him a normal life without the use of magic so the seal won't break.
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