Chuunibyou Demo Koi ga Shitai! Ren - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Birdway

Could you re-read my post? My point was about the "yuri" which was the pandering device. Not the relationships since its far obvious when this series is centered about character than a story plot.

To some extent, yuri is an aspect of their relationship, not just pandering. That's why your post didn't make sense.

[R.LocK]

Originally Posted by ellessarr

no kissing??? and what deko and nibutani did

C'mon. How did you even read my post?

-snip-

Yeah, right, no. This is not your usual relationship between MC and Main Girl. It's a 'serious' relationship between oficially established lovers. This is the reason I should like Chuu-2 for, but a direction KyoAni's taken... Well, it just kills me for various reasons that involve spoilering and the stuff.

Honestly, it's very difficult to have romance when one part of the "relationship" is far too emotionally undeveloped for it, and your "relationship" is that between a father and a daughter (or, as Nisemori put it, between a Grandfather and a Granddaughter) rather than between a boyfriend and a girlfriend...

Yes, it is. And? How does it disprove my point that the relationship between Yuuta and Rikka is not romantic at all?

[ellessarr]

Originally Posted by R.LocK

C'mon. How did you even read my post?


Yeah, right, no. This is not your usual relationship between MC and Main Girl. It's a 'serious' relationship between oficially established lovers. This is the reason I should like Chuu-2 for, but a direction KyoAni's taken... Well, it just kills me for various reasons that involve spoilering and the stuff.


Yes, it is. And? How does it disprove my point that the relationship between Yuuta and Rikka is not romantic at all?

lol that was just a joke, i was aware who you are talking about rikka and yuuta but what i wanted to say is who no matter the things, romance japanese about teenagers/childresn most of the times gonna be like "childrens"(at last 90% in shounen and 50 to 70% in seinen with childrens), will be a romance full of shy blushs, characters who can't stand with kisses and things like that

a thing who keep me a few annoying is how peoples keep puting all the blame of rikkar while is obvious who also yuuta is another super shy character, is not just rikka who turn the things complicated are both, when come to take decisions yuuta also is not the "mature" or adult" he also shy and blush a lot, this also not help their relationship, he keep holding himself too much, this is why their relationship looks so underated, is not just "rikka" we see who sometimes if instead of keep shy and insecure yuuta take the initiative their could be already kissing and doing more couple related things but he just keep wanting more things but doing near nothing to have it, make many times the iniative com from rikka, because he is too "shy".

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

To some extent, yuri is an aspect of their relationship, not just pandering. That's why your post didn't make sense.

But you just said before that it is. There is no real yuri in the series, that's comes from the public that sees it that way that is why to me it's just the studio teasing part of the public by throwing some ambiguous situations that would activa their yuri goggles. Just that, no need to overthink things.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Birdway

There is no real yuri in the series

Their relationship might not be romantic but it's not just friendship either. It's that line in between that it's actually typical in anime. And that is considered yuri too, even if it isn't fully romantic.

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Their relationship might not be romantic but it's not just friendship either. It's that line in between that it's actually typical in anime. And that is considered yuri too, even if it isn't fully romantic.

Well, to me yuri implies romance if there is a relation that is very close that has no romance then it's sisterly relationship.

So far I can say their relation ship would be like that of sisters who quarrels time to time and then get along until the next quarral arrives. Just that. The studio won't go further, that's cuz they're not the focus of the series and won't dare to get out of their safe zone.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Birdway

Well, to me yuri implies romance

I collect every yuri manga anthology currently being published, and I can tell you a lot of the stuff in these magazines is still the "not quite romance but more than friends" type instead of full romance. The relationship between Shinka and Deko falls in line with this so it can be considered yuri, whether you like it or not.

Originally Posted by Birdway

The studio won't go further

I know. So what? This is yuri enough.

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I collect every yuri manga anthology currently being published, and I can tell you a lot of the stuff in these magazines is still the "not quite romance but more than friends" type instead of full romance. The relationship between Shinka and Deko falls in line with this so it can be considered yuri, whether you like it or not.

Oh, but I'm sure you know those manga you collect just don't stay still and develop more.

I know. So what? This is yuri enough.

That's why I called it pandering. To me is like a secondary rival in a "harem" serious despite being aware she will be left behind soon or later because said rival #2, 3,etc is not a main character. I know nothing deep will happen and it's kind frustrating (keep adding haretters knowing well the main guy likes the main girl like SAO for example).

[ellessarr]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I collect every yuri manga anthology currently being published, and I can tell you a lot of the stuff in these magazines is still the "not quite romance but more than friends" type instead of full romance. The relationship between Shinka and Deko falls in line with this so it can be considered yuri, whether you like it or not.



I know. So what? This is yuri enough.

i agree with you, i already "watched some yuri or yuri like animes and read few subhinted yuri mangas and easy anyone can see "yuri" in deko x nibutani relationship, their really fall in yuri category, some yuri are like that just keep playing in the bordeline between true yuri and a very "deep" friendship (more than friends, less than lovers).

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Birdway

Oh, but I'm sure you know those manga you collect just don't stay still and develop more.

No, the point of these stories is that they're not develop further. They stay in the borderline. The ones that do are those that deal with full romance. But all of them are considered yuri nonetheless.

That's why I called it pandering.

But it's not. That's just how their relationship works.

[Birdway]

I guess yuri is a vage concept or just a very general concept to englobe relationship between girls .... then by the same trend of thought what would make of male characters that are 'bros'' and 'bromance'? Yaoi? Because of are the same but on the opposite gender, aren't?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Birdway

I guess yuri is a vage concept or just a very general concept to englobe relationship between girls

It's kind of a broad genre, yes. It does have its limits though. For example, Deko and Rikka are close, but it's just friendship.

then by the same trend of thought what would make of male characters that are "bros"? Yaoi? Because of are the same but on the opposite gender, right?

Not necessarily. Yuri and BL have totally different roots. I don't read much BL though, so I don't know for sure.

[Birdway]

It's kind of a broad genre, yes. It does have its limits though. For example, Deko and Rikka are close, but it's just friendship.

But with Nibutani is the same, they're not showing that "kind" of vibe nor they's aware/thinking to much about it, the problem is that the ova had a misleading situation at the end. Again, that's why to me is pandering or teasing to others since it won't go or develop any further and it won't be something memorable for the characters involved. They'll go back to normal and that's it.

[R.LocK]

Originally Posted by ellessarr

lol that was just a joke, i was aware who you are talking about rikka and yuuta but what i wanted to say is who no matter the things, romance japanese about teenagers/childresn most of the times gonna be like "childrens"(at last 90% in shounen and 50 to 70% in seinen with childrens), will be a romance full of shy blushs, characters who can't stand with kisses and things like that

As I said, the situation you're talking about doesn't apply to Rikka and Yuuta. In most cases, MC and Main Girl are in denial of each other's real feelings. Does Yuuta doubt that Rikka loves him? Nope, he doesn't. Rikka? The same, but she's jelly when he's near Sophia.
BTW, it does not fall into Shounen category. It's not even Harem, it's supposed to be SoL, Comedy, Romance and Hurt&Comfort (first season only, due to KyoAni's decisions). I fail to see the relevance of your examples, for Mario's sake.

[ellessarr]

Originally Posted by R.LocK

As I said, the situation you're talking about doesn't apply to Rikka and Yuuta. In most cases, MC and Main Girl are in denial of each other's real feelings. Does Yuuta doubt that Rikka loves him? Nope, he doesn't. Rikka? The same, but she's jelly when he's near Sophia.
BTW, it does not fall into Shounen category. It's not even Harem, it's supposed to be SoL, Comedy, Romance and Hurt&Comfort (first season only, due to KyoAni's decisions). I fail to see the relevance of your examples, for Mario's sake.

he dont deny but he dont does good as well, i already read some mangas like that, their start as a couple but a very shy and childsh couple, where their are aware of their feelings and are "trying to develop it" but in a "childshi" way, with 0 kisses(make a kiss looks like some sort of "take away virginity"), because this is "moe"(cute) and japaneses(specially otakus like cute things)

this manga is a good exemple of this, we get a lot of "teaser moment" between the couple but their keep acting super shy and somehow childshi, this is how "romance" work in otaku culture.
http://mangafox.me/manga/onna_no_ko_..._dame_desu_ka/

here another good exemple
http://mangafox.me/manga/hitorimi_haduki_san_to/

yuuta and rikka relationship is a shy and childsh where both of then have their own issues in dealing with their relationship, both of then are shy are in their own way and pace develop their relationship, ofcourse for their age this is too "much childsh" since their are 16-17 years old their are supposed to be kissing walking holding hands hugging and things like that but for then is hard doing that things either alone or in public(specially in public since in japan too much "love-dove in public is somehow considered a shame).

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Birdway

But with Nibutani is the same

They're not. To begin with, they're tsundere for each other (and no one else). They try to convince themselves that their accidental kiss was an accident all the time, even though it is a fact that it was an accident so they don't need to try that hard. And of course, they blush like hell when they do that. And to top it off, Shinka's rival wasn't really a rival for the title of Mori Summer; what the girl wanted was Deko's love. So whether she liked it or not, Shinka ended up fighting for Deko more than for her Mori Summer title.

Now don't get me wrong. All this doesn't mean they love each other romantically or anything like that. But this isn't how a writer builds a friendship either. This is yuri, of the "more than friends but not quite lovers" type. It won't go further than that, but it doesn't need to.

Anyway, let's just leave at that.

[Birdway]

Being tsundere for a person doesn't automatically turn you into a romantic interest, Tsundere doesn't applies to romance only and I think you know that already. Oh, I'm sure the studio intention's to play with those who are sensitive to put them their yuri goggles. I call it friendship, they don't have that kind of deep concern for each other that gets in the "more than friends but not quite lovers" territory you say.

The problem is not just one writer but more than one and those who can do and undo thanks to Kyoani just like Kyoukai no K. where novel readers tells that due to the studio writing Mirai is a different character compared to her novel counterpart.


Yeah, lets leave it like that, no point on going further when the series won't do the same.

[ellessarr]

Originally Posted by Birdway

The problem is not just one writer but more than one and those who can do and undo thanks to Kyoani just like Kyoukai no K. where novel readers tells that due to the studio writing Mirai is a different character compared to her novel counterpart.


Yeah, lets leave it like that, no point on going further when the series won't do the same.

but that the difference while in kyoukai was considered bad changes, in chu2byou was considered good changes(one was bad criticized while the other was praised), this is why the anime is much more popular and liked than the novel, anime version is considered much better than novel version, many peoples who readed/watched both say that, novel is for peoples who want know the first version while the anime is for the true entertainment.

this is why anime is one of the case where a adaptation(who also is canon) turned being claimed better than the source.

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by ellessarr

but that the difference while in kyoukai was considered bad changes, in chu2byou was considered good changes(one was bad criticized while the other was praised), this is why the anime is much more popular and liked than the novel, anime version is considered much better than novel version, many peoples who readed/watched both say that, novel is for peoples who want know the first version while the anime is for the true entertainment.

this is why anime is one of the case where a adaptation(who also is canon) turned being claimed better than the source.

You have a wrong concept about canon. Canon is just the "work that'is done by the author's hand" just that, isn't about good or bad or if the public claims it or not.
So no, anime most of its content isn't canon, it's been authorized by the owners of the right passed down to the studio but in no way it makes it canon, just an official work.

[R.LocK]

Originally Posted by ellessarr

-snip-

Stop. I hate discussing stuff that strays off the raised point. It doesn't contribute anything to the topic so please refrain from replying to this post.