Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[Levy]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

The plot makes a whole lot more sense if you conclude that most of the KoR got their position by nobility.

Mh, yes, it's possible that the default condition is such. Marianne, Luciano and Suzaku, though, get into the KoR due to their fighting skills, so it's not a must.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Levy

Mh, yes, it's possible that the default condition is such. Marianne, Luciano and Suzaku, though, get into the KoR due to their fighting skills, so it's not a must.

Suzaku got in as a favor from the Emperor, not for his fighting skills; though its possible he could have gotten in using them.

[bladeofdarkness]

gino got in using title (or so bradly says)
i'm guessing anya did too (when would she have time to prove herself otherwise)
bismark got in by being charles's knight
as for the others...

[Levy]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Suzaku got in as a favor from the Emperor, not for his fighting skills; though its possible he could have gotten in using them.

If not fighting skills, then it's at least a 'battlefield merit': he captured Zero/Lelouch and brought him to the Emperor.

Anya, I stand by my interpretation that she got her position because Charles knew Marianne was living inside her.

[Kid Ying]

Yeah, i mean, even if Anya did have a position, it's not likely she would join the KOR so early. it was just a mean for Charles to always have an eye on the one holding Marianne's soul. Even her mecha was more defensive, a giant robust robot with a big laser to shoot people from distance? It's totally for protection.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Levy

Mh, yes, it's possible that the default condition is such. Marianne, Luciano and Suzaku, though, get into the KoR due to their fighting skills, so it's not a must.

Bismarck also got in by skill.

Even though both Luciano, and those two losers deaths where both CurbStompBattles, at least Luciano dodged a couple of times.

It's kind of hard to say whose the best pilot since Code Geass put such an emphasis on mechas being more important than the pilots.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

It's kind of hard to say whose the best pilot since Code Geass put such an emphasis on mechas being more important than the pilots.

Uh, since when? I can remember plenty of times where it was the people who made the difference and not the machines being used. Like the Lancelot vs Gekka battles, and nearly every Suzaku vs Kallen encounter. I'd say emphasis was put on the pilot just as often as it was put on the mecha.

[Eleonore Magilinon]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

*-*
So... yeah, no knight for Clovis. Only his art, rooftop designs and strange experiments on immortal women. If he only had given her a pizza.
He could have become great.
And traumatized for life, but it's better than having none at all.

Couldn't help quoting it, lol, lol, lol))))) I actually imagined that)))))))) What would it be, Code Geass: Clovis the...?
However although I cannot explain it and futher, it's almost illogical, but I have a feeling C.C. chose Lelouch, and did it way before they "first" met (knowing how involved with Marianne she was, I'm starting to doubt it was their first meeting). And then things just ended up going the way she wanted.
After all, there weren't many reasons for her to go to Japan in the first place...

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

why would kallen become a KoR
even excluding the whole "im japanese" bit
without a deep hate for britannia, she'd never get behind the controls of a KMF
its not like she LIKES fighting and killing
so its not likely she'd she'd become a pilot without reason

Although I do agree with what you've said...)))))
Firstly we were talking about possibilities, and she did have talent to be a pilot up to KoR level, there could be lots of reasons and possibilities for her to become one if she was interested. And if we exclude something so basic as "I'm japanese" we have no idea what kind of person she could become.
And second, all we can say is supposingly she doesn't like fighting... But actually, I have huge doubt that anybody who fights as much as she does hates it to the core. I mean, if she use it as means to fulfil her goal she does accept it.
It's not like I'm saying she likes it, but if she does it for BK, she could under some circumstances do the same for the Empire, and that's being KoR.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

villeta isnt shown to be THAT good of a pilot
the KoR are suppose to be the best of the best
if jeremia didnt get a spot, i doubt villeta would

Yep, KoR are supposed to be that way... But although I know it's because of lack of screentime, but some KoR are shown to be worse than her(villetta). But as we have to explain it from inside of CG world, seems like curruption of the currupted Empire came all the way to giving high ranks. The bright side is that being great pilot means being KoR (I don't remember example of it being otherwise, e.g. any pilots better than KoR outside of KoR but belonging to Empire), unfortunately, being KoR doesn't mean being great pilot.
And Jeremiah at least as he was in R2 could be KoR, although he wouldn't probably be one since V.V. and Emperor wouldn't want to put attention to Geass Order...

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

gino got in using title (or so bradly says)
i'm guessing anya did too (when would she have time to prove herself otherwise)
bismark got in by being charles's knight
as for the others...

But then again, Gino also is an awesome pilot, or at least great one. And as he said, if just being a nobility could buy the place of KoR, it would be too cheap.

Anya most probably got it thanks to the Emperor etc., but she also was a tolerable pilot if not more (rembmer some moments, till she got visions from C.C. she was holding both her and other BK member and they were piloting quite cool units... They could just exagerate the effect of "genious protegy"

A little off topic, but I really like Gino, I consider him one of the best people in R2.
He doesn't have much prejudice overall. He sees Karen just as she is and comments her on being good pilot, while most of the nobles would see her as scam just because she's half and helps Japan, and same way he accepts Suzaku as friend.
Also he's loyal (until he has good reasons not to support Empire), and it's still great quality in my book.
Although we cannot say he doesn't enjoy fighting, but I think it's not that he's cruel, but rather just able to enjoy anything he does, if it's fighting it's no difference... He doesn't enjoy killing people though and it quite honorable (and does it not brecause he's "noble", but because he considers it right). And he cares about his friends...

Also (since it is general discussion) I wanna hear your opinions about two things:

First, how did Mao find out C.C.'s location in the first season if even Emperor tried that and failed? Because he has ability to get the knowledge others have by reading their minds, but that does't help even a bit if others doesn't know the location as well... Of course, some people saw her passing by, but it's the anount among thousands of others it close to non-existent, plus most of them didn't pay attention and as far as I remember, Mao could read people's minds (their current thoughts) not memories that can't recall themselves.

And second, I wonder what do you think about Lloyd? For me, although it's merely an idea since he seriously reminds me of Fye from Tsubasa Chronicles (same "carefree" attitude) but I feel like his personality has more depth than just not caring about anything... His words and him "being rotten from the beginning" sound really sad to me. Re they the words someone who... regretted it would say, i wonder?
Plus his actions could be interpreted a bit differently several times (if one does want to see them differently that is), for example he did let Suzaku to spend time with Euphie, maybe just to see such a strange scene, but still... I do think he could predict what happens, he could see that it'll greatly help Suzaku's goal to encounter Euphie. Not that he cared, but he did kinda help him. And also, his words to Suzaku and then Nina that the "this contradiction will one day kill them" was quite wise, they did suffer greatly because of it. Why did he bother to say it?
I see him more like pushing himself not to care, it's like he's saying to himself it's far too late for him anyway and he enjoys life the way it is, nothing matters for him, rather than really being that way.
I know it's just me creating all that, but...

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Uh, since when? I can remember plenty of times where it was the people who made the difference and not the machines being used. Like the Lancelot vs Gekka battles, and nearly every Suzaku vs Kallen encounter. I'd say emphasis was put on the pilot just as often as it was put on the mecha.

The Lancelot vs Gekka battle was 5-1
Suzaku and Kallen are usually on equal ground, and except for the final battle the decisive victory where usually the ones where one of them had an upgrade. In terms of skill Kallen and Suzaku are about equal, with Kallen having the slight advantage.

I am talking more about the Japanese revolutionary forces being a match for the main Britannia army, and the Suzaku vs Knights of the Round battle where Suzaku just uses his superior mecha to defeat them.

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by Eleonore Magilinon

But then again, Gino also is an awesome pilot, or at least great one. And as he said, if just being a nobility could buy the place of KoR, it would be too cheap.

Anya most probably got it thanks to the Emperor etc., but she also was a tolerable pilot if not more (rembmer some moments, till she got visions from C.C. she was holding both her and other BK member and they were piloting quite cool units... They could just exagerate the effect of "genious protegy"

Gino is good, but it is questionable if he is trully Rounds level, given he nearly always fights in a superior machine to his enemies. When trying to kidnap Nunally, Kallen was the only flying enemy he faced, and she creamed him. When in China, Xing-ke was already battered by the Eunuch's betrayal and he was preoccupied with saving the Tianzi, not taking Gino out. The only thing I recall offhand from the Tokyo battle was him and Lelouch matching their beam weapons at each other, and Lelouch is NOT a skilled pilot. Everything else after was him getting creamed by Suzaku. I honestly think there was more truth to Bradley's words than Gino wants to admit.

Anya never really shows any 'skill' in the sense of planning attacks or anything beyond using Mordred's suppressive capabilities to overwhelm. The Mordred's defenses were what was protecting her from the attacks in China. She wasn't dodging and countering, she was hiding behind her shields. However, since Marianne could (and did) take over her body at will, it could be assumed that she would do this at times when agility and ingenuity would be helpful in a fight in order to make Anya seem like a better fighter. I, like others am of the opinion that she only got in due to being Marianne's vessel, but Marianne's skills were accessible in order to give a better justification than "I'm the Emperor so do it."

Originally Posted by Eleonore Magilinon

A little off topic, but I really like Gino, I consider him one of the best people in R2.
He doesn't have much prejudice overall. He sees Karen just as she is and comments her on being good pilot, while most of the nobles would see her as scam just because she's half and helps Japan, and same way he accepts Suzaku as friend.
Also he's loyal (until he has good reasons not to support Empire), and it's still great quality in my book.
Although we cannot say he doesn't enjoy fighting, but I think it's not that he's cruel, but rather just able to enjoy anything he does, if it's fighting it's no difference... He doesn't enjoy killing people though and it quite honorable (and does it not brecause he's "noble", but because he considers it right). And he cares about his friends...

I have put the following 'criticism' of Gino in a spoiler tag so it can be glossed over if one wants to avoid it because I WILL be harsh on him, but read on if you feel like it...You were warned.

Spoiler for Why Gino is not a nice person:

There are many types of prejudice. Agressive, like s1 Jeremiah's, and more passive, like Gino. Gino may not actively 'hate' non-Britannians, but he clearly does NOT see them as equal to humans i.e. Britannians. As far as the Japanese, he joked about having the "wonderful pretext to purge them" at Nunally's SAZ in R2. That was him saying "If they do something I get to shoot them, and I want to shoot them because it will be fun." Remember, this was about a million people, and only a few were actually BK. Most were civilians and children, but they weren't human in his eyes; they were something to shoot at, again for fun.

He may not enjoy killing people, but he does NOT consider the Japanese or ANY other non-Britannian as a person. This is called being prejudice, and he DOES enjoy killing non-persons.

He may not go around kicking Japanese people he sees on the street, but he does nothing to try to change the system that says it's okay to. He is complacent in how things are because his position in life is good (through no virtue of his own). He has no desire to help or understand others, only to have fun. This is demonstrated when he keeps asking Kallen to accept her Britannian blood over her Japanese blood. Kallen has grown up in a bad life, and lucked into a good family with the Stadtfelds, but helping others at risk to her own life is more important to her than having any easy life for herself. Gino sees this and thinks she is stupid. He never tries to understand what makes her feels this way, he just keeps saying "But you could have an easier life."

This is also ignoring the fact that she is a criminal in his country's eyes. He's saying that the system should bend over and release a known killer, just because he finds her 'hot' and interesting.

He's only loyal to Britannia because it serves his interest. When Lelouch was still making Britannia a more just place, before attacking the UFN, Gino helped in an attempt to KILL Lelouch because he had destroyed the nobility structure.

He turned on an Empire that was helping the world (at the time) because he was personally inconvenienced by it.

After Suzaku was traumatized by dropping the FLEIJA on Tokyo, Gino made one comment (that made no sense at all) and then went off to play pool rather than help with relief efforts around the crater or at Ashford. He left Suzaku in the bottom of that hole for a full day to wallow in his grief and confusion. Then when Suzaku came back talking about things he never normally talked about, Gino didn't say "Sit down and talk to me, you are obviously hurt and confused and need help." He said "Suzaku you traitor!" He abandoned a guy he called a friend and then turned on him after two sentences.

So no he does not care about his 'friends' either. He cares about his own entertainment, and nothing else.

EDIT: As for being 'honorable' when the Black Knights attempt to kidnapp Nunally in Turn 6, Gino performs two surprise attacks on the BK, and later in China he does two more against Xing-ke. An honorable warrior would have announced his presence first in these situations before attacking. However, I don't really count this against him as much as some of the other things since it is him being an efficient soldier, rather than an honorable warrior.

Originally Posted by Eleonore Magilinon

Also (since it is general discussion) I wanna hear your opinions about two things:

First, how did Mao find out C.C.'s location in the first season if even Emperor tried that and failed? Because he has ability to get the knowledge others have by reading their minds, but that does't help even a bit if others doesn't know the location as well... Of course, some people saw her passing by, but it's the anount among thousands of others it close to non-existent, plus most of them didn't pay attention and as far as I remember, Mao could read people's minds (their current thoughts) not memories that can't recall themselves.

And second, I wonder what do you think about Lloyd? For me, although it's merely an idea since he seriously reminds me of Fye from Tsubasa Chronicles (same "carefree" attitude) but I feel like his personality has more depth than just not caring about anything... His words and him "being rotten from the beginning" sound really sad to me. Re they the words someone who... regretted it would say, i wonder?

For the first one, yes as far as I know we are supposed to assume that he did basically wander around as we saw. It could be assumed that C.C. may have said or implied something about going to Japan before abandoning him, or perhaps she made trips there for some reason while she was watching him. In fact, she could have even brought him with her to Japan before abandoning him, though this one seems unlikely.

I sadly can't say much about Lloyd. He was definately interesting, but any possible backstory he might have had was thrown out when the staff had to redo the second season. The snippets about Lloyd's past were just one of several implied scenes in R2 that seemed to do little more than frustrate the audience, and horribly violate the idea of Chekov's Gun.

[bladeofdarkness]

actually the last i heard from kosov about the last PD is that he DID keep in touch with kallen at least
he sent her some mail which she clearly DIDNT like
its never actually explained WHAT he sent her
but she mentioned that he hasnt changed and keeps acting like a noble (which he claims that he just acts like a man, but given his limited understanding...)

[Betteroffer]

So it's unclear if she doesn't like the content of the mail, or the attention itself?

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

So it's unclear if she doesn't like the content of the mail, or the attention itself?

It would imply the content, but I doubt she cares for the attention at all.

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

So it's unclear if she doesn't like the content of the mail, or the attention itself?

Kosev and Miasma's posts on the subject led me to believe both, because she first talks about all the boys at the school first, and then singles out Gino about his mail when he questions her. Then she picks a fight with him.

[bladeofdarkness]

she says "guys dont change, like that mail you sent me the other day, just like a nobleman"
and she later basiclly tells him "lets settle this with Knightmares
and he spends the entire scene completely clueless about EVERYTHING (kallen's weak act, nunnaly's conection to ashford)
i doubt she cares so much about him at all

[Frostfire]

Here's the accruate translations, to the best of my knowledge:

Originally Posted by miasma

Conversation in Question
Rivalz: Man Nina sure has changed.
Nina: You think?
Kallen: But the boys haven’t changed much.
Gino: Orly?
Kallen: Yarly. That mail you sent me the other day proves it too. How long do you intend to act like an aristocrat?
Gino: That wasn’t me being an aristocrat, that was me being a guy!

Gino sent Kallen an e-mail the other day and it made Kallen roll her eyes. That wasn’t hard was it? Well actually apparently it’s really hard.

Originally Posted by kosev

miasma's having too much fun to post the REAL translation so here we go:

Rivalz: Nina, you've changed.
Nina: Have I?
Kallen: But the boys haven’t changed much.
Gino: Oh?
Kallen: Yes, the mail you sent the other day proves it too. How long do you plan on acting just like a nobleman?
Gino: I wasn't being a nobleman, I was being a guy!

I am sorry to tell you all, especially Kagino fans, but Kallen is not using humble speech with Gino nor is she using made up grammatical forms with words completely out of order to complain about him not keeping in touch. I am sorry, they are not close despite what your mistranslations may have you believe. You'll all have to deal with it. Does no one here have a basic dictionary to correct this? Rly? Orly?

If you're wondering what this all means, I'll simplify: Gino sent something to Kallen and she was not amused or pleased or thrilled by whatever it was. Nothing for you crazy shippers to drool over, unless you love drooling at someone being told to grow up and getting offended by it. Kallen being offensive to Gino, I am sorry to say, is not tsundere either. It's just plain being offensive. She's not complaining about him not keeping in touch, as many were incorrectly led to believe, she's complaining about him actually sending her things. Ironic that it would be the opposite.

I will give you all props for amusing many people out there. Very amusing and if I could I would shake each of your hands for the sheer laughs you have blessed me with.

[ClovisLaBritannia]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

The Lancelot vs Gekka battle was 5-1

it was actually 7-1 (Zeros Burai, The Guren, the 4HS's Gekkas and Tohdohs Custom Gekka)

Originally Posted by Eleonore Magilinon

Anya most probably got it thanks to the Emperor etc., but she also was a tolerable pilot if not more (rembmer some moments, till she got visions from C.C. she was holding both her and other BK member and they were piloting quite cool units... They could just exagerate the effect of "genious protegy"

thats true, i did like that one scene when she grabs Chibas Gekkas face and says "Tag your dead" LOL

[darthfury78]

Originally Posted by Xander

If the show had been 50 episodes long, in a single uninterrupted season, most likely that would have been the end of it and this discussion would never have taken place.

Thinking about 100 episodes is admirable, but a pipe dream in my opinion.



Late night slots usually aren't meant to win "summer ratings sweeps" you know.

If the timeslot had never been changed...the show most likely wouldn't have added an "R2" to the title and who knows what slot Macross Frontier would be assigned to (in reality, it used the old Code Geass slot).

50 Episodes for Season 1
50 Episodes for Season 2

That's how I look at it because it would have provided some indepth stories into Charles' past and how he became Emperor and how he was able to unite Britannia under his control. It have focused on a lot of issues, rather then just Lelouch's rebelion.

[ZeroSama]

A quick question for everyone else here. Does anyone else here think that Taniguchi and Okuchi didn't make Suzaku dumb enough?

I mean the whole Lelouch-Suzaku relationship thing is supposed to be how they make up for the others shortcomings and how they are unstoppable when they work together right.

However while they clearly showed with Lelouch how he was a genius but woefully physically inedaquate when compared to, well, just about anything, the same cannot be said about Suzaku. I mean Suzaku has been shown to be superhuman running along walls, breaking iron with a kick and jumping 30 feet in the air but he has never been shown to be stupid, terribly naive but never stupid.
If he was dumb he would never have thought to use Nunnally as a trap to discover if Lelouch was Zero again amongst other things.


They should either have increased Lelouchs physical prowess to that of a normal teenagers or shaved about 20 points off Suzakus I.Q to even it out a bit because seriously if they make Lelouch so pitifull physically, they have to make Suzaku a serious fucktard to maintain balance.

[bladeofdarkness]

they make lelouch SUPER smart
and make suzaku SUPER strong and agile
that lelouch is bad at sports may be a running gag
but its a running gag in the same way that kallen getting into emberasing naked situations is a running gag
it has no baring on the plot

and all they really need to do is exagurate both of their respective skill
lelouch can predict what shnizel would say for several minutes and plan for every option of battle
suzaku can leap over KMF's and dodge machine gun bullets
THATS why they are the perfect pair, not becouse they fix eachothers weakness, but becouse they each are the best in their praticular field

and having suzaku as a total moron would make him pathetic as an antagonist (which he spends most of the time as)