Several VS opinions

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

In a realistic sense, maybe...but given that SEED/SEED Destiny seems to have inherited Wings infamous "Main-character-invincibility-factor" (I mean...Shinn stabbed both the Freedom and Athrun's GOUF Ignited right by the cockpit with a huge anti-ship sword, the suit falls underwater, explodes and sits there for god-knows-how-long and the character miraculously survives with MINOR injuries).

So...no matter how you look at it...the invincibility factor would get in the way and Shinn would end up losing...

[grandmaster192]

Yep. your right. Athrun's main character armor lets him win no matter how mutch better Shinn's skills are. It's lame.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

If the story hadn't completely refocused on Kira and Athrun, I'm sure Shinn would've also received that factor as well...unfortunately, he got backstabbed and lost it and Kira and Athrun got twice as much of it XD

[Skyfall]

i really dont know where you get that Shinn > Athrun in melee.... Athrun = Kira judging from only fight they fought to the fullest ( Aegis vs Strike ). And Shinn has a beam saber also...tho i dont recall him hitting anything with it. All his kills are made with charge & stab with the anti-ship sword. Sucks to be him when the target cant be beaten by it. Its the one move he prefers and uses, he shows no tactical combat or trying to figure the oponent out, he just charges and sees if it goes down.

Its true that IJ > Destiny in melee, and this brings up the point of Shinns (in)ability to think straight during combat. Shinn hardly did anything impressive in the show asides from sinking loads of enemy ships and grunts.

Shinns skill better than Athruns ? at the battle of Junius 7 he in his Impulse didnt fight but just floated there because he was to busy drooling all over Athruns and Yzaks performance in ZAKKU's.

If there is anything that beats Athrun its Kira, and if there is anything that beats Kira its Athrun. Those two are on a level of their own, be it melee or othervise.

Shinn is my favorite character in GSD, but at least i wont let that blind me - as much as i like him i can find NO evidence that he > athrun in any way ( unless you consider getting outmached by a heavily injured Athrun at Orb and totaly devastated in 5 secs at battle of Messiah a great acomplishment )

Shinn has potential, he has skills but he totaly lacks one thing - ability to addapt to situation. He just charges no matter what and hopes for the best. Ofc works fine against most grunts but it wont work against Athrun and co.

[grandmaster192]

I'm sorry but I must disagree with you, Sky fall. Athrun on Kira's level? Hell no! Shinn is the only pilot on Kira's level. Athrun is slightly better then Yzak IMO. You say Shinn just charges in and can't do anything else. He seemed to addapt to the situation just fine when he beat Kira. the tactics and moves Shinn used were amazing. Athrun coulnd't dream of doing that to Kira. Of course Athrun is gonna win. look as his gundam. plus he has main character armor.

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Shining Greatness

I'm sorry but I must disagree with you, Sky fall. Athrun on Kira's level? Hell no! Shinn is the only pilot on Kira's level. Athrun is slightly better then Yzak IMO. You say Shinn just charges in and can't do anything else. He seemed to addapt to the situation just fine when he beat Kira. the tactics and moves Shinn used were amazing. Athrun coulnd't dream of doing that to Kira. Of course Athrun is gonna win. look as his gundam. plus he has main character armor.

Ah but you see - he cant think ( and thats what i like about him ) - those tactics were indeed amazing, but it was Rey who came up with them, not Shinn.

And as much as i hate Kira and like Shinn, i have to agree that Kira wasnt bent on fighting Shinn at all at that time - more like he was just trying to shake him off. Ofc a win is a win, but you can clearly see that Kiras focus isnt fighting there. ( He still took out Impulse once, Shinn had to get a second one out there to finish the job )


And in Shinn vs Athrun - you cant write down everything on MS - Athrun in his ZAKKU did a better job against Extendeds than Shinn in his Impulse. Better to a such degree where Shinn was left with his mouth open. Same goes for Heine in his GOUF.

Sure, Shinn seems better trought most of the series when Athrun is spending half his brain power of thinking about is he doing the right stuff and all ( not to mention about being to busy pushing the transform button in his Saviour ) Once he got his mind straight and got his IJ he wasnt defeated after that , not even while heavily injured ( Couldnt move around without clinging on to Meyrin )

Sure, Shinn > semi-afk Athrun, no thoughts there, but you seem to place Your argument that Shinn = Kira on the Freedom vs Impulse fight where Kira was semi-afk. Well in such a situatin Shinn indeed was better than Kira, same as Shinn > semi-afk Athrun. Fact is neither Kira nor Athrun have been defeated while going all out. Only time any ( both ) of them were beaten while going all out was in a fight between them , wich ended in a draw ( i still say Athrun won this one, he just got unlucky and his energy run out 0.01 sec beore he could finish Kira of )

Shinn could only dream to be on Athruns level ( wich he did on Junius 7 fight , when he saw Athrun doing things in ZAKKU wich he could not dream of doing in impulse ). Really, as much as i like Shinn i see no way of him beating Athrun, and his fighting style doesnt develop trough the series , its the same all the time )

Now lets look at things when Shinn lost to Athrun - At battle of orb injured Athrun goes in to melee with Shinn only using his beam saber ( so the argument that IJ has more blades is moot here since Athrun didnt use them ) and cuts off Destiny's arm. pwned

Battle of Messiah - only using his beam saber Athrun destroys Shinn's sword - Again the pont that IJ has more blades means nothing since Athrun only used them to finish Shinn off who was left without defenses and it didnt matter what Athrun used )

All the times Athrun beats Shinn in melee he only uses his beam saber, so i dont see how you figured that Shinn > Athrun in melee

And if i would have to List CE pilots by skill it would be like

1) Kira / Athrun / ( maybe Raww )
2) Raww
3) Shinn / Rey / Yzakk

One might say that Shinn > Rey in skill, but Rey would make up for that with brain power wich Shinn unfortunately lacks compared to all those above him - if he wouldnt go nuts so easilly and would start to think strategically he would be one heck of a pilot, but that is not the case.


...omg such a long rant...

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

In a realistic sense, maybe...but given that SEED/SEED Destiny seems to have inherited Wings infamous "Main-character-invincibility-factor" (I mean...Shinn stabbed both the Freedom and Athrun's GOUF Ignited right by the cockpit with a huge anti-ship sword, the suit falls underwater, explodes and sits there for god-knows-how-long and the character miraculously survives with MINOR injuries).

So...no matter how you look at it...the invincibility factor would get in the way and Shinn would end up losing...

Well Shinn has that factor also

But about stabbing - i kinda can see how Athrun survived , because Shinn stabs GOUF more to the side, not the middle ( just rewatched the ep )

How Kira survived i indeed dont understand since Freedom gets stabbed right in the middle of cockpit ( also rewatched )

[C.A.]

Shinn totally missed Freedom's cockpit. Its true that almost all cockpits of mses are at the centre of the torso or close to the waist level, but not for Freedom and Justice.

Freedom and Justice's cockpits are at the top of the torso, just a little forward from under the head. And in place of the normal cockpit placement is their nuclear reactors. What shinn did was give a direct hit to Freedom's nuclear reactor, resulting in the large explosion.

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by C.A.

Shinn totally missed Freedom's cockpit. Its true that almost all cockpits of mses are at the centre of the torso or close to the waist level, but not for Freedom and Justice.

Freedom and Justice's cockpits are at the top of the torso, just a little forward from under the head. And in place of the normal cockpit placement is their nuclear reactors. What shinn did was give a direct hit to Freedom's nuclear reactor, resulting in the large explosion.

He he must have missed that well that would explain Kira surviving now if only someone could explain me how the hell Cagali got there on her Strike Rogue to rescue him considering she was on Archangel who was underwater and running from Minerva i would be truly happy

[Demongod86]

First of all, it wasn't from the nuclear reactor going nuts that we had a big boom. It was from Minerva's pwncannon. This is what happens: Shinn plot-devices his way through Kira's shield (if it was a beam weapon, why didn't shield block it, if it was a physical weapon, why didn't PS do it?), so Kira shuts off reactor so he wouldn't go boom. Phase shift deactivates, and then Minerva's boom hits, meaning Freedom and Impulse both got pwned, only difference being that Shinn less so since Kira's Freedom was blocking him. And then when the AA saw "Freedom: signal lost" so Cags went out to go fetch.

[Skyfall]

Errr...no :P Minerva had nothing to do in the Kira vs Shinn fight - Minerva fired its canon at Archangel while it was submerging and hits it, we get a minor size BOOM. After this has happened Kira looks in the direction of the BOOm all worried, this is where Shinn makes his move and goes for the charge ( during this moment his anti ship sword gains a laser coating on the tip of the sword ( normaly it doesnt cover the tip , only one side ) and rams Freedom. The mysteriousely gained Laser tip of his sword ofc goes trough PS armor.

[Silent Soldier]

Originally Posted by Skyfall

The mysteriousely gained Laser tip of his sword ofc goes trough PS armor.

Laser tip you say hmmm I never noticed that now I have to go back and rewatch the scene again. Was it ever explained how or from where this laser tip came from since it is not normally on the sword or is it just another of the wonderful additions to the world of plot holes.

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Silent Soldier

Laser tip you say hmmm I never noticed that now I have to go back and rewatch the scene again. Was it ever explained how or from where this laser tip came from since it is not normally on the sword or is it just another of the wonderful additions to the world of plot holes.

it was never explained, i just remembered someone mentioning it before during this incident and demongods post reminded me of that, so i just rewatched the ep - he indeed gets a laser tip for his sword during the charge you can safely add this to the world of plot holes

[grandmaster192]

Originally Posted by Skyfall

And if i would have to List CE pilots by skill it would be like

1) Kira / Athrun / ( maybe Raww )
2) Raww
3) Shinn / Rey / Yzakk



...omg such a long rant...

For me it would be:

1)Kira=Shinn.
2)Raww
3)Rey>Athrun>Yzak.

IMO Kira was trying his hardest to beat Shinn. Kira was using most of his best moves. And Rey didn't tell Shinn to throw his Shield and do all that other stuff. Shinn can think. All Rey did was tell Shinn that Kira doesn't aim for the Cockpit. Shinn did all those tactics himself. I don't see how you think Athrun is better then Shinn. Athrun allways has the advantage when they fight because of his gundam counters the Destiny perfectly. Not because Athrun's skills are bettter then Shinn's.

Oh, and that fight. Aeges vs Strike. People say that was a draw but I think Kira won that fight. Kira was making Athrun look like a joke. lol. If I remember right Kira had cut off Aeges's arm and leg. And the Strike was still ready to fight. with only 1 arm and leg and running out of power Kira was about to finish Athrun off. Athrun got beat so bad he was forced to selfdestruct.

[megakim]

Originally Posted by Shining Greatness

For me it would be:

1)Kira=Shinn.
2)Raww
3)Rey>Athrun>Yzak.

IMO Kira was trying his hardest to beat Shinn. Kira was using most of his best moves. And Rey didn't tell Shinn to throw his Shield and do all that other stuff. Shinn can think. All Rey did was tell Shinn that Kira doesn't aim for the Cockpit. Shinn did all those tactics himself. I don't see how you think Athrun is better then Shinn. Athrun allways has the advantage when they fight because of his gundam counters the Destiny perfectly. Not because Athrun's skills are bettter then Shinn's.

I guess you didn't get teh part where Kira himself said he wasn't trying his best.

Oh, and that fight. Aeges vs Strike. People say that was a draw but I think Kira won that fight. Kira was making Athrun look like a joke. lol. If I remember right Kira had cut off Aeges's arm and leg. And the Strike was still ready to fight. with only 1 arm and leg and running out of power Kira was about to finish Athrun off. Athrun got beat so bad he was forced to selfdestruct.

Kira only cut Aegis' arm and head. Athrun got Strike's arm and chest (without any vision! ) and was about to blow Strike/Kira to oblivion before his suit couldn't muster enough energy for 1 shot. Not to mention Kira wasn't able to do anything while Athrun strapped him and blew up Aegis, meaning he found a way to win/draw before Kira could capitalize.

[grandmaster192]

Never mind!

[Silent Soldier]

If the Aegis had enough power left to fire the scylla one last time the fight would have been over and Kira would have lost. It was an awesome fight they were both completely intent on killing each other and were giving it there all. Athrun self destructed and almost finished Kira off if Lowe hadn't have been there to get Kira and leave him at rev mallchio's he would have died. Athrun came so close to winning that fight if only the power hadn't run out seed would have turned out very different. (Curse you poor battery life)

[M_Flores]

Let's take a step back for a sec...
How about just plain X10A Freedom VS X09A Justice?



And something a little different - Destiny VS Forbidden + Raider + Calamity (1 on 3 match) ?

[Mr_Paper]

First!

Don't turn this into yet another (doomed) Kira vs Shinn thread, that is not its purpose, nor is this a 'character vs. character' thread - its 'mobile suit vs. mobile suit' so stick to the VS. comparisons made by the thread starter. This thread has been hijacked well over a dozen times despite the starter's minor protests.

Now, back on the real topic!

[yamikage]

Okay, following your advice:

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

56.) MSR-00100S Hyaku Shiki Kai vs. RX-178+FXA-05D Super Gundam

Stats taken from MAHQ:

Model number: MSR-00100S
Code name: Hyaku Shiki Kai
Unit type: prototype attack use mobile suit
Manufacturer: Anaheim Electronics Company
Operator: Anti-Earth Union Group
First deployment: UC 0087
Accommodation: pilot only, in panoramic monitor/linear seat cockpit in torso
Dimensions: overall height 19.2 meters; head height 18.5 meters
Weight: empty 39.2 metric tons; max gross 63.6 metric tons
Construction: gundarium alloy on movable frame
Powerplant: Minovsky type ultracompact fusion reactor, output rated at 2015 kW
Propulsion: rocket thrusters: 2 x 7500, 78500; vernier thrusters/apogee motors: 12
Performance: maximum thruster acceleration: 1.47 G
Equipment and design features: sensors, range 11500 meters
Fixed armaments: 2 x beam Gatling gun; 2 x pulse laser gun; grenade launcher unit
Optional hand armaments: beam rifle, power rating unknown

Model number: RX-178+FXA-05D
Code name: Super Gundam
Unit type: RX-178 Gundam Mark II and FXA-05D G-Defenser combined mobile suit
Manufacturer: Earth Federation Forces/Titans (Gundam Mark II); Anaheim Electronics Company (G-Defenser)
Operator: Anti-Earth Union Group
First deployment: UC 0087
Accommodation: pilot only, in panoramic monitor/linear seat cockpit in torso of RX-178 Gundam Mark II
Dimensions: unknown
Weight: empty weight unknown; max gross 94.0 metric tons
Construction: titanium alloy/ceramic composite (Gundam Mark II) and gundarium alloy (G-Defenser) on movable frame
Powerplant: Minovsky type ultracompact fusion reactors, total output unknown
Propulsion: rocket thrusters: 4 x 20300 kg, 2 x 42400 kg
Performance: maximum thruster acceleration 1.77 G
Equipment and design features: sensors, range 11300 meters
Fixed armaments: 2 x A*E-Br*G-Sc-L beam saber, power rated at 0.45 MW, stored in recharge racks on Gundam Mark II backpack, hand-carried in use; 2 x 14-tube missile pod, mounted in binders on G-Defenser main body/backpack; 4 x vulcan gun, mounted in pairs in missile pod binders, each pair fire-linked; long beam rifle, power rated at 6.8 MW, mounted on right side of G-Defenser's main body, hand-operated by Gundam Mark II
Optional fixed armaments: VCU-505EX-V*B/Ver.021 60mm 2-barrel vulcan pod, 1400 rounds total, mounted on head; RX*M-Sh-VT/S-008 shield, mounted on left forearm
Optional hand armaments: A*E-Br*XBR-87-D beam rifle, power rated at 2.6 MW, powered by replaceable e-pac, 2 spare e-pacs stored in shield; H-Baz-87-A*E/Ver.009 360mm hyper bazooka, clip-fed, 7 rounds per clip

The Super Gundam has more powerful weapons and has greater max thrust acceleration over the Hyaku Shiki Kai. The Hyaku Shiki Kai is smaller than most other MS, a lot lighter than the Super Gundam and seems to be more agile than its predecessor. The Hyaku Shiki Kai also has a variety of weapons but it lacks a beam saber, or so MAHQ says.

One big problem with the Super Gundam is its metallurgy: its armor is made of the old titanium alloy/ceramic composite. The stronger Gundarium alloy, which the G-Defenser provides, covers only a few parts of the Gundam namely its back, its shoulders and the upper part of its arms. This means that the head, front torso and the legs are completely susceptible to all of the Hyaku Shiki Kai's weapons. The Hyaku Shiki also has beam-resistant coating, which might be of some protection against the Gundam's long beam rifle.

The Super Gundam has the advantage on a long range battle where the Super Gundam can play cat-and-mouse due to its better thrusters and weaponry but the Hyaku Shiki may be a hard target to hit. The Super Gundam, however, suffers greatly at mid range since its main weapon has a slow rate of fire. Mid range is also where the Hyaku Shiki Kai's weapons are most accurate. I'm not going to evaluate the fight at melee until someone confirms whether or not Hyaku Shiki Kai has a beam saber. If he really doesn't have one, he loses automatically.

So in conclusion, I'm going with the Hyaku Shiki Kai.

I'm going to evaluate no. 57 and 58 later if I have the time.