US Elections 2012 Part I: The Primaries/Caucus

[Hollowgolem]

See: Gaius Marius, L. Cornelius Sulla, Gnaius Pompeius Magnus, Gaius Iulius Caesar, Octavianus, ... Diocletian... etc. etc.

I think it's worth noting that it has sucked for the majority of humanity for the majority of history.

It's only recently that the majority has become well-educated enough to start being pissed about how much it sucks for them.

Who knows if/how that'll change anything in the coming centuries. But it probably won't get any better in time for any of us to enjoy it, and it may not get any better in time to ensure the longtime survival of our species, now that imminent environmental disasters and our own destructive technologies are looming as large as they are.

[DonQuigleone]

The Mexican drug wars are both a Mexican problem (for obvious reasons) and an American one (because american money and weapons are fuelling the cartels).

I think the American government should do their best to help the mexican government, which last time I checked they're already doing. But they really need to do more on their own side of the border. Stop the flow of weapons, and reduce the demand for drugs.

It's not going to be easy though.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

The Mexican drug wars are both a Mexican problem (for obvious reasons) and an American one (because american money and weapons are fuelling the cartels).

I think the American government should do their best to help the mexican government, which last time I checked they're already doing. But they really need to do more on their own side of the border. Stop the flow of weapons, and reduce the demand for drugs.

It's not going to be easy though.

Reducing the demand for drugs... hmmm, that might involve keeping everyone occupied with jobs, a healthy environment, good infrastructure... nope, no, can't have THAT. Besides it would reduce crime, the need for more private prisions, the need for more private law enforcement, um, public law enforcement, yeah.

[Sugetsu]

The war on drugs is most useless and unproductive war in human history. Not only has it destroyed the lives of millions of Colombian and Mexican citizens but also generated gangs and gang violence all over the US and the world.

When will people understand that suppression is delusion. They need to legalize all drugs, and target those most susceptible to become drug addicts with real education and counseling programs that work.

Mexico is the mess it is right now because Colombia has managed to push away most of its cartels off the country. When the Mexican government "wins" against its drug lords then other country in the Americas will become the next hub for drug production. It is a never ending cycle that will keep repeating itself so long as the "war on drugs" continues.

[Ithekro]

Income source...drug tax. Still cheaper than the drug lords rates as their isn't the risk in smuggling driving the prices up. They might still deal to get around the tax, but that is a different crime...tax evasion.

[synaesthetic]

If the government wanted to solve the debt crisis, it'd be easy. There are dozens upon dozens of ways to increase government revenue without making the lower and middle classes feel the pinch, and even without making the rich mofos sweat much more than usual.

The problem is they don't want to solve the debt crisis. The GOP/Tea Party want to starve the beast, so they can kill what little remains of our social safety net and then tell the American people that they had no choice, planting the blame squarely on "socialism" and "godlessness" or whatever other such nonsense they come up with.

[Kaze]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

The problem is they don't want to solve the debt crisis. The GOP/Tea Party want to starve the beast, so they can kill what little remains of our social safety net and then tell the American people that they had no choice, planting the blame squarely on "socialism" and "godlessness" or whatever other such nonsense they come up with.

Reminds me a lot of this for some reason:


Godlessness



The Republican Party would use the debt limit vote, an otherwise routine legislative procedure that has been used 87 times since the end of World War II, in order to concoct an entirely artificial fiscal crisis. Then, they would use that fiscal crisis to get what they wanted, by literally holding the US and global economies as hostages.

The article I posted on the last page describes this very well

[DonQuigleone]

I'm not sure if legalizing drugs would be the way forward. Just look at all the social ills that alcohol brings.

Not only that, but most of these drugs are extremely harmful. For instance, I don't think we should ever have Heroin being sold anywhere legally. That stuff makes cigarettes look good.

How about something like Oxi?

The minute drugs are legalized it will be a race to the bottom.

[Vexx]

One reason the presidential race is almost just a distraction from the central problem: congress.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/03/us...er=rss&emc=rss

Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, for instance, says he is open to ending tax breaks for special interests. But when it comes to a tax break he secured in 2008 for the owners of thoroughbred racehorses, he argues that the measure is essential for the protection of jobs in his home state of Kentucky. Senator John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, says he too wants to eliminate such breaks, except when it comes to beer. He is one of the main supporters of a proposal that would cut taxes for small beer makers like the Samuel Adams Brewery in Boston.
And Representative Paul D. Ryan, the Wisconsin Republican who leads the House Budget Committee, has privately assured one beer industry group that he would support a second proposed tax break for brewers, even as he has distanced himself publicly from the measure, the beer group’s chief operating officer said in an interview.

[Ithekro]

Well, every representative and senator is suppose to be representing their states...so interests within those states would be a priority, since that is their voter base.

The problems come when they all add up and then nothing happens.

This is why Congress usually doesn't really do anything until they get someone or something to motivate them. be it a giant popular movement, or a President with some weight behind his words.

[Tatsumi Saiga]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

I'm not sure if legalizing drugs would be the way forward. Just look at all the social ills that alcohol brings.

Not only that, but most of these drugs are extremely harmful. For instance, I don't think we should ever have Heroin being sold anywhere legally. That stuff makes cigarettes look good.

How about something like Oxi?

The minute drugs are legalized it will be a race to the bottom.

Legalizing shouldn't be confused with providing. Also a big difference between legalizing and decriminalizing. Legalizing doesn't mean your local grocer would be allowed to sell it.

People that want to do hard drugs will do hard drugs (unless the education and support systems are in place to prevent/rehabilitate them), the difference is in whether the government makes it more or less dangerous.

[Ithekro]

One suggestion was to set up a Federal Drug House, where people would go to do their drugs (for a fee and with the drugs purchased being taxed). Then they would be in a controlled enviroment for whatever it is they are doing. The only trouble I see is that some people use drugs for very specific reasons and those reasons can't be done in a controlled drug house (like coping with work or whatever).

This is mostly for the hard drugs. The lighter drugs can have other methods of taxation (like cigarettes).

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

One suggestion was to set up a Federal Drug House, where people would go to do their drugs (for a fee and with the drugs purchased being taxed). Then they would be in a controlled enviroment for whatever it is they are doing.

So, like an old-timey Opium Den?

[Vexx]

There's some evidence that a certain percentage (10-15%) of the population are just prone to addictive behavior, legalized or not. Legalizing, regulating it, and providing treatment programs is a lot less exciting but a lot more effective and cheaper for society... just not so great for those who benefit/profit from the current status quo.

[DonQuigleone]

I just think we shouldn't give any of these drugs the veneer of respectability by making them legal. And even if those drugs are decriminalized or legalized, so long as they're not readily available people will illegally smuggle them.

That said, I would support decriminilizing the possession of small quantities of drugs, but certainly not the distribution.

It's like the way the distribution of harmful medical drugs is banned.

Not only that, but lots of young people have a "try anything" attitude, imagine how many lives would be destroyed if these people were exposed to Oxi.

[Ithekro]

Lke an Opium Den, but potentially cleaner and with a professional medical staff.

Some people do things because it is illegal. It isn't the rush from the drug that starts it, it is the rebellious thing, or the peer pressure thing. You make it "legal but in a controlled enviroment" it is no longer that edgy, rebellious things. It is going to the doctors for a treatment, and rebellious types hate that, as that isn't "cool".

So they'd find something else to be rebellious with.

[DonQuigleone]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

So they'd find something else to be rebellious with.

Probably something worse.

[Decagon]

Well, WoW's still legal.

[DonQuigleone]

Originally Posted by Decagon

Well, WoW's still legal.

We need to start demonising a particularly unobjectionable activity, then all the kids will start doing it.

How about we start discussing the evils of basketweaving?

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

We need to start demonising a particularly unobjectionable activity, then all the kids will start doing it.

How about we start discussing the evils of basketweaving?

And yet the Tea Party constantly demonizes paying taxes, yet I do not see many rebellious children of Tea Party parents rushing to fill out their Form 1040A.