2009-01-15, 04:57 | Link #821 |
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Light defined being lazy as a crime-that was a bad translation really, what he meant was that remaining passive and not helping those in need is bad.To enforce his creed upon the world he had to reign absolute, above all. To that end, he was the "Big brother" who at first terrified everyone, and with time they saw that the world became better, all thanks to him. As Ryuk said in ep1, the only messed up person in the end is Light himself, having killed so many in a world of innate virtue (coz people no longer committed crimes, not only because of the fear of punishment but also because it was better for everyone).
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2009-01-16, 09:36 | Link #822 | |
Teddytears
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You are right there. The only way that something like that would work is if there was a medium. But that would make it nothing more than a hit book then anything else. Oh well. It is an anime, it's not meant to be taken too seriously, I guess. There's really no proof of gods of death existing, but on the same note, I guess there isn't anything saying there aren't any in existance. These things seem unfathomable by the human mind. You imagination lacker.*shot* But seriously. You're right, although my point still stands valid.
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2009-01-18, 09:17 | Link #824 | |
Professional haruhi-ist
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ANYWAY.... Light was wrong from the start. Anyone who kills another for any reason, let alone for the very crime that they are comitting, is both a hypocrite and a monster. Now, if he had intended from the start to kill himself (inder the premise that 'gods' cannot live on earth) then this would have been fine, but he did not. He just had an incredibly demented sense of justice. |
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2009-01-20, 09:43 | Link #826 |
Teddytears
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That is a good question. How would the Death Note kill someone who never received a name, such as an orphan who lived on the streets, and was never taken in by anyone.
Sometimes in Japan they go by birthdays to decide their names, maybe that could be the solution. But the fact still remains that there is no surname..... quite troublesome, actually..... I don't know what would happen in such a situation.
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2009-01-22, 23:04 | Link #827 | |
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Now to go back to the original topic of "morality" I believe Death Note has two very debatable virtues throughout. One being morality and the other being justice. Now, I will speak about only morality due to the topic of the thread. Morality, today is debated amongst many on whether it is above the law (Eternal or Divine Law) or is the law the final line (Positive Law). Now you see both characters Light and L take both sides of the argument; Light obviously being for eternal law, seeing morality being much more stronger than the law itself. Light sees it fit to kill criminals to save the world, the law is flawed and he sees to fix it. Now is this moral? Well it depends on how you look at the situation. The Natural law is defined as the unchangeable morality principles to help humanity (Dictionary definition, 2009). The Natural Law is to be believed that human nature will always go in the direction of morality. In which is in many religions a contradiction (Christianity) who believe human nature is corrupted by sin. Now my relevance here is simple; if human nature is to be in accordance to morality, should it be also in accordance to the law in itself? The Eternal Law believes that there is a higher standard to law, in such of morality, so something in which is moral but against the law can be done. Light, believed in this theory I believe... although I do question the morality in killing criminals. L, on the other hand was much more of a Positive Law theorists, in which nothing is above the law, the law is the final line. From here I could take many directions but I believe I will allow the reader to comment from here; this will give me some solid ground on where to continue. |
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2009-01-23, 00:07 | Link #828 | |
Teddytears
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Light's understanding was much like that of a religious person's. The law of God overrides that of man. but man is flawed and therefore does not cast complete rightious judgment. But if he thought Man's law was so imperfect, him being a human couldn't possibly do much better, could he? The law of God is what we perceive it to be, those things feasible by the human mind alone. Humans can only see God's law and try to make sense out of it. God's thoughts are not our thoughts, for his ismuch higher. No matter how closely tied to the truth of God he was, he could never truly understand it. He prebably thought that he could, and that was warping his mind, making him think that he had such great genius that it was equal to that of God. Light Yagami was confused. What's even more sad was that someone so gifted confused himself into his own demise. Don't get me wrong, he was going about peace, but this world is not meant for peace. Peace cannot exist without chaos, and so, if Light had succeeded in becomeing "god" of the new world, only he himself would be corrupt, and would need to be rid of. After that, the only corrupt person in the world would have been gone. What would've happened? I do not know. I suppose someone else would come up and the whole root of corruption would start over again. And the world would be back where it started. Now that I think about it. What did Light Yagami profit the world? I short time of peace? After tasting the peace, the chaos will only be that much harder to take in. In all honesty, Light's entire cause was probably in vain...
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2009-01-25, 21:47 | Link #829 | ||||
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In conclusion I would like to say that Light/Kira, although his ideology was right, and his methods extreme. Nothing would have sufficed for the better because of the power he posed. Kira, was in fact a tyrant, much like Hitler but instead of eliminating the Jews, he took out the criminals; now many would agree that criminals are a much different boat than the Jews. Nevertheless, your argument is not valid. |
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2009-01-25, 22:55 | Link #830 | ||||
Teddytears
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But, I have to say. Yes, profit. What would the world gain from Light Yagami's actions? The world is a large place, even though they said people were scared straight, there had to be at least one person left who could've wrecked hell of the earth. And everyone else would be too scared to defend themselves for fear that they may be in the wrong, and be killed by Kira. What would Light even do after defeating Near? Reveal the fact that he was Kira? If so, what about after he dies? Who could tell what would happen then? Even if there was world peace, there would still be someone who was poor, and needed something, and had to resort to drastic measures to get it.
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2009-01-26, 16:45 | Link #831 | |
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Well if you talk about peoples needs that is much different than the injustice created by many others. Kira, seemly did not care about petty crimes, rather ones of drastic measure. I believe Kira would still, account his power and authority against them, but yet again.. man's biggest fear is the fear of punishment. |
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2009-01-26, 21:41 | Link #832 |
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To answer the question you would first have to establish a clear definition of right and wrong. Is it wrong to kill? Yes. Is it wrong to kill a criminal? We've been using the death penalty since the beginning of time. Such questions have no answers, as they always have exceptions to the rule. Therefore this entire manga/anime exists in a grey area.
I, for one, believe that if Light had succeeded with his plan that the end would have fully justified the means. There would be no crime and everyone would live in harmony. How can that be wrong? If evil men are what keeps the word from being what it could be then what purpose do they serve. If i had the death note i would have carried out everything in much the same way as Light...until he allowed L to be killed. This is where Light becomes the bad guy. Up until L's death, Light only killed criminals and those that the world would be better off without, but L's death started something else. Light had to start to cover his tracks and as a result, killed many innocent people who only thought they were doing what was best. This goes against the very idea with which he started. Light has now become the criminal that must be killed, and has lost sight of his initial utopian vision. The saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely" is very true in this case. I doubt that there are many people who could use this power for good without allowing it to go to their head and corrupt them. If the death note is to be used effectively, it must not be used for personal gain of any sort. If Light would not have joined the task force in order to get close to L, then he would have likely been cleared as a suspect and could have continued with his original plan with little interference. |
2009-01-27, 04:26 | Link #833 | ||
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To understand how to kill a nameless orphan would require knowledge of how the Death Note kills someone with only a name and a face. Maybe all you need is to think of their face and write a cause of death? What about the case of identical twins with the same name, would both of them die? Quote:
Back to the topic at hand: Light and L are both good, and at he same time both Evil. One of the creators said this: "Light was very evil", "L was also somewhat evil", "Only Souichirou was justice" Since the series followed Light, and his thought and actions more than L's, and since he seems to be more popular in this thread I think I'll talk about him. First, we would need to know what happened after the last chapter. With Kira dead, and the only Death Notes with Near, we can assume there won't be another kira (well, actually Misa buried some pages in a box in the forest when she made the second deal, but that's a whole new can of worms). What would Near have done? The world has already been cleansed. Kira was only writing a few names every day, or at least I would hope so after so many years. Near would try to maintain this peace, but then people would begin to doubt kira's existence. They would eventually stop believing altogether, and only a handful of hardcore kira fans would still think he was there. I forgot where I was going with this... |
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2009-01-27, 05:28 | Link #834 | |
Teddytears
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My meaning of that being, yes, Light did kill criminals, something his father must have had to do time and time again being a man of police, but Soichiro Yagami was against the acts of Kira, and Light being Kira went against the wishes of his father. Of course you can say, but he still did them for the greater good, but even then his father still disagreed with the deaths of the criminals, and deaths of most other people for that matter. This was mostly seen at the time when they were investigating Yotsuba. Light didn't follow exactly in his father's footsteps, there could be a chance that his child wouldn't do so for him either. Or, what if he even had a child with a thought train like that of L's or Near's? What then would Light do? Sure, he could have more children, but if this happens to be the first child who thinks like this, then that couldn't end too well, because younger siblings tend to follow their older siblings, sometimes even more than their parents.
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2009-01-28, 15:57 | Link #835 | |||
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I can understand where you are coming from but you're not really convincing. Is it wrong to kill? You answer "yes" why is that? Morality is grey in of itself. A perfect example is if you look at the animal world, animals fight and kill to survive. Now of course we do not have to live in these extremes because we have reasoning. Nevertheless, what about self-defense; does that count as "wrong"? Now on the idea of Capital Punishment, it is much different than what Kira was doing. For one Capital Punishment is lawful, what Kira did was not, nevertheless was is effective. I believe it was; our (realities) legal system is flawed, Kira's law was not. I agree with your second paragraph nonetheless. Now, come your third paragraph you change your percept of Light/Kira. I disagree, Light never changed at all throughout the series, other than a power-trip of a tyrant-ego. You forget Light had a self-proclaim duty - in which at any means to complete. People like L, Rey, and many others became an obstacle for Light, logic tells you to eliminate that. Although he never lost sight of his ideal utopian vision as you say - he simply always got side tracked. Your conclusion is effective enough, I agree with it. Although do not make your claim seem absolute because you can not assume everybody in Light's position would become corrupt of tyranny. If one was able to suffice this and become logical clear and make no mistake in his/her actions, I believe it could be done. Quote:
Now onward with your good and evil claim, it's true but I believe their evil you claim is rather pride and ambition. You have a good question, in which what happens next. I believe Near, (pure speculation) but I believe he announces Kira's captive and death. He wants people to know Kira was a criminal and not a god, that he could be defeated, self-pride as well. Near then becomes the new L, of course. Things go back to the way they were. Criminals have no fear, BUT are probably more wary because they know this super-natural power exists and if someone else was to do the same. Nevertheless criminals would just look to the irony of Near (L) to save them. Oh the Irony! Quote:
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2009-01-28, 18:29 | Link #836 | |
Teddytears
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2009-01-28, 22:34 | Link #837 |
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You're right to point out my assumption; although it is a common sense assumption. If one is young you assume they will live much longer than someone of middle age, correct? Light was no sick in health and really had no enemies due to his low radar. So I believe it's safe to say he wasn't going to die anytime soon. Unless of course Ryku decided to write his name in his Death Note like he did. Although you then would have to assume Ryku had that planned from the start.
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2009-01-29, 00:35 | Link #838 |
Teddytears
Graphic Designer
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But you're still accounting other people(none, if so all dead now) Who may want to harm Light into this. Or even his physical health. "Death works in mysterious ways" He could've been accidentally struck by a car, fallen over a cliff, ect. other means on death. There was no proof that he would die in sickness or old age.
But then again, my saying that makes me a hypocrite, doesn't it? Pointing out your assumption, but then making an assumption of my own. I think it's safe to say that there was never a 100% chance that thing would have worked out how Light wanted them to, no matter how well he planned out things, how well he prepared, ect.[/off topic] Anyway, there was no way to account for what Light's cause of death may have been.
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2009-01-30, 19:42 | Link #839 | ||
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Last edited by GuidoHunter_Toki; 2009-02-01 at 11:11. |
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2009-02-01, 08:23 | Link #840 |
is a myth
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Like others have said there are many laws in places that don't apply elsewhere. Forced marriage is allowed in one country, but not in another. In Muslim societies you can't drink alcohol, but elsewhere you can. In japan, you cannot show full nudity, elsewhere you can. As Ryuk said, "If you keep doing that, the only one left with a bad personality will be you. (vol. 1, ch. 1)
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