(L) Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka? [WN]

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Chaserjacksaw

Eh? Why attack the demons?? If pope really see what our white evil god plans to do......wont that mean nothing? Waste of effort demons is just a pawn after all now that they are basically useless for her(except felmina) theres no point is it?

What interesting is what kind of plan there is to stop a god from her world wide massacre project which near completed

I agree that under the assumption that Shiro kills Gyurie that it would be very hard for the pope to stop Shiro. But he's the sort of person who would do something if he can - he won't simply give up.

Why attack the demons? The pope might well have realised that Shiro is doing these things partly because Ariel desires them. That's pretty likely I think. He might have realised that Ariel has been weakened, though this is tenuous. So he might try to kill Ariel. Even if the chances of it making a difference would be small he might well do this anyway. Let's not forget he has the Hero on his side to some degree. He might well be willing to sacrifice Shun in order to kill Ariel, for example.

We know for certain that Dustin will prioritise the humans. He's already announced that he's going to sacrifice the Goddess for the sake of humanity. There's no way he'll simply sit around for the end. It might be ultimately futile but it's better than doing nothing - the global message made it quite clear that Shiro's plan will be a "bad end" from his point of view.

btw, I wouldn't necessarily assume that the battle between Shiro and Gyurie will end will a clear conclusion. For example, Gyurie might be badly weakened but survives. In such a scenario, if Gyurie and Dustin team up then it would make life harder for Shiro. In addition, if Dustin takes various actions while the battle between the gods is taking place it actually gives Gyurie some motivation to flee rather than fight to the bitter end.

[kari-no-sugata II]

New update at last.

Gyurie's POV. For dragons (and it seems most gods), they simply get stronger with time so "strength" is basically proportional to age. For dragons, there's no "genius" types who are especially capable - from his POV, Shiro is an anomaly. In addition, he has no real combat experience and has also been spending most of his energy into helping restore the planet so that Sariel can be freed sooner.

So, long story short, Gyurie knew Shiro over-estimated him and expected to lose if it became a drawn out battle. It looks like he has one final card to play but expects to have to leave the rest to Dustin...

[Chaserjacksaw]

Well damn! Looks like we will see the super overly used cliche of Human vs God in here is it?....in this case its Old Pope jiji vs antisocial spider!!

[kari-no-sugata II]

Translation for "The Black Dragon’s Battle" is up.

Spoiler for thoughts:

I'm not surprised Gyurie is at a disadvantage in combat experience. That's something I had predicted. Hadn't expected him to use up most of his power on the planet but it makes sense.

So I guess the question boils down to: what was Gyurie able to prepare in advance given that he expected to lose if he didn't achieve a quick victory? He could certainly have left something for Dustin / the pope. What can the pope do to undermine Shiro's plan? Will Shiro be able to communicate at all with those on her side (would be strange if she can't but you never know). Will she have prepared enough in advance to counter whatever Gyurie / the pope has prepared?

Anyway, at a guess Gyurie and Shiro are going to be fighting for a while and it'll be time for the secondary characters to shine.

[tsunade666]

I can only think of the trump card as buying more time. twisted time frame. I wont be surprised if few years just pass by, during the battle.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

I can only think of the trump card as buying more time. twisted time frame. I wont be surprised if few years just pass by, during the battle.

From Shiro's POV this is actually one of the worst things that Gyurie could possibly do. After all, Ariel isn't expected to live longer than a year. Shiro very much wants to grant Ariel's wish to save Sariel so Ariel dying before that wish is fulfilled would be something that Shiro would very much want to avoid.

Without Ariel's lifetime constraint, Shiro could take a more flexible approach - for example, she could simply wait for Dustin to die of old age, though it looks like she might be able to grab his Ruler Authority even without that, given enough time. Which is actually one potential downside to Gyurie speeding up time - as Shiro said to herself in the previous chapter, her hacking of the System is ongoing and if she gains full access before her fight with Gyurie is concluded then she'll immediately trigger the end of the System making the whole fight moot. It's not clear that Gyurie is aware of this.

Anyway... I dunno if Gyurie's "trump card" will be this but his main aim is to stall for time as much as possible and to reduce Shiro's energy as much as possible. I'm not sure speeding up time within this dimension would count as his "trump card" as my overall impression is that it was something that might give him a slightly better chance at victory. Hmm, the most logical thing I can think of is an attack that damages the soul. After all, Shiro believes this to be "mainstream" for god fights so it's not unreasonable that Gyurie would have this skill as a "trump card" from his POV.

A few other thoughts: I wonder if Shiro ever planned to "steal" energy from Gyurie? Basically, she can't see the amount of energy he has left, simply his maximum, and so believes that he has much more energy (because she wouldn't be so dumb as to "waste" it like Gyurie did). So if she planned to steal that energy with her magecraft eating attack then finding out that won't work might result in her having less energy available than she had planned. On the other hand, I'm not sure if it was ever confirmed that her magecraft eating attack actually gained her net energy. Ariel's Gluttony certainly does and Shiro modelled her ability based on that but given the "cost" of deploying the attack it might not gain Shiro net energy.

I would be surprised if Shiro has no ability to contact those outside. She might well have been blocked early on but since she knows that her hacking of the System is continuing that at least implies she has contact there - while she has automated a lot of things I doubt she'd have set up her clones to trigger the end of the System automatically. Also, her clones are able to enter this dimension that Gyurie created so they should be able to carry information as well. We've not yet seen her make any contact with those outside though but I'm sure it's just a matter of time. I'd be curious as to what she'll say...

[sierra117]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

From Shiro's POV this is actually one of the worst things that Gyurie could possibly do. After all, Ariel isn't expected to live longer than a year. Shiro very much wants to grant Ariel's wish to save Sariel so Ariel dying before that wish is fulfilled would be something that Shiro would very much want to avoid.

Without Ariel's lifetime constraint, Shiro could take a more flexible approach

imo, this should backfire on both Gyurie and Dustin because if they let's Ariel just die like that then there is a high chance Shiro snap and will just slaughter both humans and demon out of spite

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by sierra117

imo, this should backfire on both Gyurie and Dustin because if they let's Ariel just die like that then there is a high chance Shiro snap and will just slaughter both humans and demon out of spite

It's hard to say how she would react exactly as she's never lost anyone she's cared about before but Shiro kinda lost it when Sariel resurrected the Hero system and made Shun the human Hero. As Shiro said, she was so angry she could talk normally! And the main source of that anger was because Sariel's actions would endanger Ariel, IIRC. Part of Shiro's motivations for ending the Hero system was to protect Ariel after all.

If Ariel was killed rather than simply died of natural causes I think it would be very much in-character for Shiro to make those responsible suffer massively. Even vague attempts on Ariel's life might well provoke such a reaction.

In general, Shiro also takes the view that anyone actively and knowingly opposing her is an enemy and can be killed, even if they're a reincarnator. So if the pope decides to rally the rest of the world against Shiro then suddenly those in that group are all viable targets and Shiro wouldn't hesitate to kill them. She's a bit busy right now though...

But in short, yeah... do NOT provoke the spider!

[Chaserjacksaw]

Hmmm why do I get a vibe that Kumo shall fail big time, humans win but at a next moment they unfortunately knew their mistake & that win only invoke absolute utter despair by making kumo completely go straight up insane

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Chaserjacksaw

Hmmm why do I get a vibe that Kumo shall fail big time, humans win but at a next moment they unfortunately knew their mistake & that win only invoke absolute utter despair by making kumo completely go straight up insane

Given that it has been well established that Shiro is very strong mentally, having her go insane would be very out of character.

[sierra117]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

Given that it has been well established that Shiro is very strong mentally, having her go insane would be very out of character.

maybe not insane but something on the level of killing Ariel is more than enough for her to snap to the point slaughter all human out of spite

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by sierra117

maybe not insane but something on the level of killing Ariel is more than enough for her to snap to the point slaughter all human out of spite

It's certainly extremely dangerous to presume that Shiro is kind or nice (she is at times but it's dangerous to assume this). She wouldn't be that out of place as a Japanese god from folklore, who can be very temperamental and basically need to be appeased. Back when she first found out about Taboo she seriously contemplated the good old "kill everyone" solution. She was angry back then as well, though mostly because she felt that D was trying to force her to take certain actions.

I don't think Shiro would literally kill everyone though. I'm sure she'd at least spare the reincarnators who aren't opposing her. And any members of her army who stay on her side.

[Chaserjacksaw]

Well look at the situation like this in a simple way....it will be like this......

Kumo side be like: punish the sinners(humanity) as a atonement & judgement of their sin to save the world & the benevolent(Sariel).

Pope side be like: Sacrifice the benevolent(sariel & dumb dragon) to spare the sinners from the punishment of sin & save the world, atonement & salvation through death of their savior(sariel)

Well well♪♪♪~~♥Something sounds familiar is it?(well if your a religious one)

Lets disregard all complicated issue & we will get that our Kumo-chan is the Enemy/final boss of this story(despite being the MC) wherever the reason of her action is. Yelp! She officially became the Evil God of the world due to D prank. What can I say she is the example of doing what is right but not the good one

Sadly looking at it seems like plot bound kumo to be defeated by the humans.....that will look very interesting IF it happens & will make the story go on for a little longer

In short I just want God kumo to be defeated by humans & see what will happen to Kumo both mentally & godly!♪

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Chaserjacksaw

Well look at the situation like this in a simple way....it will be like this......

Kumo side be like: punish the sinners(humanity) as a atonement & judgement of their sin to save the world & the benevolent(Sariel).

Well, I would phrase it more like Ariel's top priority is saving Sariel and that everything else is secondary. Shiro simply wants to fulfil Ariel's wish. Punishing the sinners is optional. They are expendable for sure though.

Pope side be like: Sacrifice the benevolent(sariel & dumb dragon) to spare the sinners from the punishment of sin & save the world, atonement & salvation through death of their savior(sariel)

I would phrase it more like their top priority is preserving humanity and that everything else is secondary. That Sariel and Gyurie are willing to sacrifice themselves is obviously a big help but it's optional, not a goal.

Where I wonder about the pope's plans though is that it stinks of short-termism. If Shiro is "defeated" she's obviously not going to stay around. So sacrificing both Sariel and Gyurie means that the planet will be undefended against outside gods. Once the System is terminated (either because Shiro does something or because Sariel and Gyurie sacrifice themselves) then D won't have any reason to protect the planet.

Of course, if Shiro wins then it's likely that Sariel and Gyurie won't be able to protect the planet either. And Shiro has indicated that she plans to leave. So wouldn't the best option to beg our spider god to stay longer term?

Well well♪♪♪~~♥Something sounds familiar is it?(well if your a religious one)

There's similarities with various things. For example, there's a large "tragedy of the commons" aspect to this where it's hard to say that any one person is to be blame (except Potimas) but the collective actions of the population are the underlying problem and things are too far gone for there to be any nice solutions. In a way, there's no "last boss" - it's just that reality is a bitch and can't be cheated. In this sense there's a strong parallel with the problem of human caused global warming.

Lets disregard all complicated issue & we will get that our Kumo-chan is the Enemy/final boss of this story(despite being the MC) wherever the reason of her action is. Yelp! She officially became the Evil God of the world due to D prank. What can I say she is the example of doing what is right but not the good one

I don't think the story is trying to say that either side are "right" or have the moral high ground. They're just doing what they want to. Shiro isn't doing anything to argue for the rightness or wrongness of either side that I remember, and the pope isn't either from what we've seen. They've simply declared their priorities and how they intend to achieve them. It's rather like how things are in nature - there are different sides. The hunter and the hunted. Sometimes the hunter becomes the hunted but sometimes there's no true aggressor. In some cases it's more a matter of trying to monopolise the best territories and protect your side.

It could be argued that from a moral standpoint that the pope's goal to save as many people as possible is the better solution. But is that really the best long term solution? Once you've killed your gods they're not coming back and instead you'll probably be enslaved by whichever outside gods turn up first.

I wonder if we'll see any attempt at negotiation at all. Ariel and Shiro seem to have decided in advance that negotiation is impossible... and so has Gyurie and probably the pope. Perhaps the saddest thing is that there's probably a better solution out there if only Sariel would relax her stupidly extreme stance.

Sadly looking at it seems like plot bound kumo to be defeated by the humans.....that will look very interesting IF it happens & will make the story go on for a little longer

In short I just want God kumo to be defeated by humans & see what will happen to Kumo both mentally & godly!♪

Hmm.

I did have one thought about how the pope might be able to be a threat to Shiro: after all, it was already pointed out that it was an option for Potimas if he had trusted his fellow elves. Namely, organise a very large group of magicians with Heresy Magic and use Soul Break. That can kill a god.

But wouldn't Shiro be aware of this? Also, I'm not sure how it could be a true threat to her, particularly with her mastery of dimensions and her clone army. Shiro is really good at having fail-safes etc. At least if she can imagine a threat and since she's already pointed out this threat to the readers she's clearly aware of it.

[Chaserjacksaw]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

Hmm.

I did have one thought about how the pope might be able to be a threat to Shiro: after all, it was already pointed out that it was an option for Potimas if he had trusted his fellow elves. Namely, organise a very large group of magicians with Heresy Magic and use Soul Break. That can kill a god.

But wouldn't Shiro be aware of this? Also, I'm not sure how it could be a true threat to her, particularly with her mastery of dimensions and her clone army. Shiro is really good at having fail-safes etc. At least if she can imagine a threat and since she's already pointed out this threat to the readers she's clearly aware of it.

Ah What I mean by defeat is not on physical or energy but a chessboard like win. I mean isn't it absure & stupid to challange a god in a contest of power? For sure Pope & the Hero were not so monoric idiots are they? Only Retarded fools such as chinese Xia xia MC, Kratos of "God of War", Asura from "Asura's Wrath" or like the Disgusting MC of Arifureta would do that, winning with nothing but brute force.

I think I have once read some story about Human vs God but they win without brute force & i really like that!!!. defeating does not mean always killing cuz never did I think Kumo would die since our white evil god is very cautious.

For example in Toaru Index, A certain normal boi Touma defeated Magic God Othinus despite losing the fight & dying,.. weird right? Well in this case its due to power love wooow~(not saying this would work in here since lol this wont work on Kumo it would be like "love is that tasty")....... What I mean its super ridiculous to win against a God when your just a human no matter what kind of special ability one have, so rather than killing her it would be Planning to win agaisnt her in her own game.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Chaserjacksaw

Ah What I mean by defeat is not on physical or energy but a chessboard like win. I mean isn't it absure & stupid to challange a god in a contest of power? For sure Pope & the Hero were not so monoric idiots are they? Only Retarded fools such as chinese Xia xia MC, Kratos of "God of War", Asura from "Asura's Wrath" or like the Disgusting MC of Arifureta would do that, winning with nothing but brute force.

I think I have once read some story about Human vs God but they win without brute force & i really like that!!!. defeating does not mean always killing cuz never did I think Kumo would die since our white evil god is very cautious.

For example in Toaru Index, A certain normal boi Touma defeated Magic God Othinus despite losing the fight & dying,.. weird right? Well in this case its due to power love wooow~(not saying this would work in here since lol this wont work on Kumo it would be like "love is that tasty")....... What I mean its super ridiculous to win against a God when your just a human no matter what kind of special ability one have, so rather than killing her it would be Planning to win agaisnt her in her own game.

Based on the currently available information, I don't see a chance for Shiro to lose in a battle of wits. The last chance for that has already gone - Gyurie should still have those playing cards that Shiro got from D, so he could have tried to pressure her into a game. If he tried that now then Shiro would probably figure out that Gyurie is in a very weak position and simply refuse.

Don't forget Shiro's motivations here. She has absolutely no reason to meekly sign up to a battle of wits - there's zero benefit in it for her. She has zero reason to play fair. If/when Shiro beats Gyruie then the only way to block Shiro without combat is to somehow stop her from being able to take control of the System. There might be some way for Shun and Sariel to work together to achieve that but currently there is no basis for that.

It's not like it's impossible for mortals to take on gods in this story. Methods to do this have been laid out in detail. But that also implies that other methods won't work. This is not some series where a real god can be beaten by mortals in a highly contrived situation.

You also seem to want the MC's journey to end in failure which seems bizarre to me.

[joako210293]

new chapter guys!. Shun`s perspective

[kari-no-sugata II]

I only just noticed... late arrival. Only had a quick read through it...

Hmm. Doesn't seem clear to me who made the first move. Perhaps Ariel told Ael to attack? Or did the dragons decide to pre-emptively attack Ael before she could make a move?

Shun sure is between a rock and a hard place. Two unappealing options. Too weak to make any real difference, as far as we know.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Translation for "S35 – Two Options" is up.

Spoiler for thoughts:

Shun never chose to be the Hero. He did make the choice to think he could do something at the elf village though. But since then his options have boiled down to having to pick a side. Is there actually a third option? I don't get the feeling that the Goddess (Sariel) is likely to want him to choose a third option because she seems to be trying to force Gyurie's choice. Might she give Shun some kind of power-up if he decides to go with this route? Kinda hard to see how he can make a difference in general...

[tsunade666]

thanks for the translation but Arl is the upgraded puppet taratect right ? the one Ariel left behind during the discussion.

I didn't expect for kisser dragon to use the fight between him and her to gather energy. nice plan there but I doubt that it would help. shiro is just running away while stealing his home field advantage. his the only one expending his energy.