2012-10-27, 05:38 | Link #541 | |
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
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Modern MBT's also have the best armor and survivability of any tanks in armored combat history. Sure, their armor didn't get any thicker, but the composite armor (ex. Chobham armor) used in today's tanks are around 10x more effective than RHA (rolled homogenous armor) of the same thickness, and this isn't getting into additional armor protection like ERA (explosive reactive armor) or active defense systems like TROPHY. In fact, modern tank guns have problems defeating the tanks they're mounted on: M1 Abrams are known to have difficulty destroying other M1's whenever they're trying to destroy abandoned tanks in the field. The biggest threat to modern tanks in straight-up combat usually come not from guns, but from ATGMs (Anti-Tank Guided Missiles) either carried by infantry or aircraft. Main Battle Tanks are all about a balance of firepower, mobility and armor, thus why they're one of the most formidable pieces of fighting hardware in modern ground combat. Many of the losses incurred by modern armored vehicles during the last decade have been from asymmetrical warfare, usually from weapons like IED's and mines, which target vulnerable spots like a tank's underbelly.
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2012-10-27, 09:15 | Link #542 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
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I am pretty sure that when scuttling a tank so do they require more then just temporarily disabling it or killing the creew, wich would normally be the requirement for a combat 'kill'. Using tank guns to try and oblitterate any usefull items on a broken tank seems very innefficient. Explosives, termite or simply burning it would be far easier. The idea that Chobham would be 10x as strong as normal steel doesn't make sense and not only physically impossible but it would also mean that those missiles would be unable to scratch a modern tank. Missile penetration have actually progressed less since WWII then penetration for guns as the principle behind HEAT is still the same so the only improvements come from better explosive compounds and fire control (wich admittedly means they can hit weaker parts of the tank). Of course most recent losses in tanks have been from assymetrical warfare...when was the last EVEN war fought with modern (US) tanks? |
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2012-10-27, 09:19 | Link #543 | ||
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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That's why everything now is about penetration or missiles dropping from above Quote:
It is possible for modern amour to withstand current KE penetrators and HEAT...you'd be hard pressed to find a WWII tank that can do so
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2012-10-27, 10:05 | Link #545 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Looked up Chobham and noted that it's optimised to resisting HEAT and actually vulnerable to high velocity penetrators. So M1 Abrams would be fairly resistant to missiles, but vulnerable to modern tank guns. There are other composits that tries to solve that problem though. Also. due to exretme brittleness so would HESH be quite dangerous and even HE and old style AP would ruin the armor and make it vulnerable for future hits.
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2012-10-27, 10:24 | Link #546 | ||||
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
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Still, in terms of weight, modern MBT's are actually quite heavy, and if they were to use the terms from WW2, they'd likely be called "Heavy Tanks". Quote:
This is not standard procedure mind, but it still happened nonetheless. Quote:
As for missile penetration, they've progressed less because shaped-charges are so effective in the first place that any improvements would be trivial. The only improvements to shaped-charges developed recently have been tandem-charges, and these were made in mind to defeat ERA. Quote:
Depending on the armor composition. For instance, the M1A1 had Depleted-Uranium plate added in the armor composition, improving its defensive ability against KE rounds. In the Gulf War, not a single KE round from enemy T-72's penetrated an Abrams tank in combat even at close range.
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2012-10-27, 11:48 | Link #547 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Far from the truth actually
HESH is rarely used anymore because composite armour is as the name suggests, laminated. It would work well against brittle armour only if said armour was homogenous. However, the varying layers serve to break up the shockwave. You should not assume that homogenous material behaves the same way as one made up of layers of different ceramics. If you want to spall a composite armoured tank you need to use so much explosive you'd crush the whole thing anyway. M1 is not resistant to missiles. No modern tank in the world is resistant to missile hits from the top. That's why the US direction now is towards DU armour while the Russians use Relikt and Kontakt-5....which works by using sliding explosive bricks for ERA to cut KE penetrators and HEAT jets. AFAIK, ERA direction offers better results than composite armour As for Asian powers like Japan and ROK....they use modular composite armour. Despite the fact that it isn't proof against KE penetrators it doesn't mean they are useless. At thevery least, they flat out trump RHA Quote:
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2012-10-27, 13:06 | Link #549 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Nyet. They're Soviets, tovarishch. They won't be the final boss though. If we go by the character page on the official website, the order of Oorai's opponents should be:
(Col ) Sanders - M3 Light tank (?), M4 Medium tank Anzio - M14/41 (?), M15/42 (?) Pravda - T-34/85, IS-2 Team Maho - Tiger I Quote:
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Light tanks - designed for recon and screening roles. Medium tanks - general purpose AFVs designed to do a bit of everything while being inexpensive enough to field in large number. Heavy tanks - meant to breakthrough enemy defenses by virtue of heavy armor. The large differences between the Tiger and Panther are due to their being envisioned for quite different purposes. Although an 10-ton difference is quite large when you consider the power of the engines and all the transmission and suspension work needed for the heavier beast. Main battle tanks made all of the other classifications obsolete because they could perform pretty much any role other tanks can. The only job you wouldn't really use an MBT for is reconaissance; and that's because it would be a waste of resources rather than for a lack of ability. The Panther is thought of as the predecessor of the main battle tank because it has most of their attributes while the Centurion is the first true main battle tank.
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2012-10-27, 18:57 | Link #553 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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...uh oh now it looks like i'm some kind of ...hmmm shows i'm not much of a Tank fan, i do love my machines, but i guess tanks are just too awkward and cumbersome for me |
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2012-10-27, 20:26 | Link #554 |
Truth Martyr
Author
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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Regards the M1A1 Abrams, I have not been able to find a source for successful hits by Iraqi tanks; all documentation I have found so far lists 9 tanks destroyed during Gulf '91; seven by friendly fire and 2 by deliberate scuttling.
In other news: DAT MAKO. She may not have very much on top, but she knows which part of her has strong ap- *Me is shot with a Silver Bullet*
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2012-10-28, 08:50 | Link #555 |
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
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Bringing the Girls in Girls Und Panzer, this time for lineart of future outfits, including swimwear, along with other miscellaneous stuff:
*Yukari having military camo swimwear* Stop that Yukari, don't make me like you more than I already do!
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Last edited by LoweGear; 2012-10-28 at 10:02. |
2012-10-28, 12:25 | Link #560 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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They really waste Yukari's talent&knowledge by appointing her as loader, the position that doesn't require those things at all.
BUT...maybe enthusiastic girl like her is the most suitable option. Faster load, Faster fire.
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Tags |
comedy, gup, original anime, slice of life, sports, tanks |
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