[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by TehChron

Not double Shannontice, though.

Under that interpretation, Kanon is simply aware that Shannon is talking to herself, and he acknowledges the dual-personality aspect of his nee-san.

Or we can simply chalk up the reactions to Kanon being there as embellishment from it being a fantasy scene.

That's why I said often.

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by kamuinoyume

Sorry I misspelled his name, it's Battler Ushiromiya I was referring to

Oh.

In that case your argument is just terrible. Anyway, what language have you been reading Umineko in? It's not "Limbo", it's Purgatorio. You may have been reading a mistranslated version.

Originally Posted by Judoh

That's why I said often.

Feh, fair enough.

[kamuinoyume]

Originally Posted by TehChron

Oh.

In that case your argument is just terrible. Anyway, what language have you been reading Umineko in? It's not "Limbo", it's Purgatorio. You may have been reading a mistranslated version.



Feh, fair enough.

It's English, and I'm not good with names as you can see...

And my argument isn't terrible!

Whatever, I see that you people don't even wanna CONSIDER the possibility of this game being something more complex that the obvious, so just forget about it. And again, I state the question: Who do you think killed all those people in the previous arcs? Since my argument is clearly not good enough for your liking, I'm assuming that you have a theory of your own?

[Judoh]

Well my main theory is in my signature.

I'm also banking on Rosa and Kyrie as alternatives. Probably on them working together actually because Kyrie being paired with Rudolf seems to be lacking some elements in the most recent episode's tea party.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by kamuinoyume

Alright. Assuming that Buttler isn't the murderer (which I won't be completely convinced until I see the answer's arc), who do YOU think actually committed the murders in the previous arc?

The culprit of games 1,2,4 is Yasu aka Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice. Not sure about the 3rd, but it's probably Eva that took over after Yasu.

As for the motive:

Yasu's life became a hell after she became the new heir, she came to know her terrible past and she became more self-aware of her damaged body after hearing how she suffered the injury.

To complicate things she was torn apart from two loves, and the situation aggravated when Battler returned to Rokkenjima.

That led Yasu to create a crazy game to decide her fate and the fate of everyone. In this game she creates a serial murder mystery where she is the main culprit. The cousins need to solve this mystery by telling who is the culprit and how she performed her crimes. However to effectively do so they first need to understand the culprit's heart, that is Yasu's heart. All the illusions then would be broken, including Shannon's illusion Kanon's illusion, and Beatrice's illusion.

That is the miracle Yasu is wishing to happen.

Yasu obtains the complicity of almost everyone explaining in detail what she's aiming for and promising money in return. Since she is the new heir and she knows where the gold is, she has the power to do so and all the adults do not have the option to refuse the money she can give them.

Yasu does not tell them that she plans to kill anyone for real, she tells them that it's just a game. Which is why she encounters little opposition. Such huge amount of accomplices is necessary in order to create the illusion of several inexplicable crimes.

Whether she then kills them for real or not, is something that I'm still not sure off, but let's say that she kills the "victims" or some of them after they have played their parts.

After this if the miracle ins't achieved she knows that the island will explode erasing any possible proof of any murder. She knows that even if for some reason she'd be killed, the explosion would still finish them off.

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by kamuinoyume

It's English, and I'm not good with names as you can see...

And my argument isn't terrible!

Whatever, I see that you people don't even wanna CONSIDER the possibility of this game being something more complex that the obvious, so just forget about it. And again, I state the question: Who do you think killed all those people in the previous arcs? Since my argument is clearly not good enough for your liking, I'm assuming that you have a theory of your own?

No, what Im saying is that I considered your theory a long, long time ago.

And then realized that if Battler really were the culprit, there'd be no point to the story, and everything we've read will be completely worthless. As it would have to be a lie in order for Battler to have committed the murders themselves.

Your argument is terrible because it assumes the ridiculous and justifies its ridiculousness by accusing Ryukishi of violating the trust between writer and reader without any real basis except to justify said theory. Which I think is rather insulting.

But thats just me.

[confusionjunkie]

Random theory time! Meta-World=inside of Yasu's head? Don't know if it's been brought up before but I just thought of it.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by confusionjunkie

Random theory time! Meta-World=inside of Yasu's head? Don't know if it's been brought up before but I just thought of it.

I think there is a similar theory for the Touhou fandom where everything is inside of Remilia's head. ( or some other character maybe? I don't really follow Touhou)

There is a theory that everything in Umineko is L5 Satoshi's dream though. So it's not completely unthought of by the fans.

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by Judoh

I think there is a similar theory for the Touhou fandom where everything is inside of Remilia's head. ( or some other character maybe? I don't really follow Touhou)

There is a theory that everything in Umineko is L5 Satoshi's dream though. So it's not completely unthought of by the fans.

Who is L5 Satoshi?

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by TehChron

Who is L5 Satoshi?

It's a reference to Higurashi.

L5 refers to the critical point in the Hinamizawa syndrome and how that put Satoshi into a coma.

The plus point of this is that since it's Satoshi's dream Umineko's literally a fiction within a fiction in this theory.

[Steampunk Librarian]

Originally Posted by TehChron

Who is L5 Satoshi?

Spoiler for Higurashi:

I believe that is refering to Satoko's brother from Higurashi. Her brother suffers from Hinamizawa Syndrome and he is at level 5 which is where the hallucinations are at their strongest, I think.

omg wait... wat if... Satoko is Yasu? O_O




/ps I am jk.

[Frisko]

Originally Posted by kamuinoyume

It's English, and I'm not good with names as you can see...

And my argument isn't terrible!

Whatever, I see that you people don't even wanna CONSIDER the possibility of this game being something more complex that the obvious, so just forget about it. And again, I state the question: Who do you think killed all those people in the previous arcs? Since my argument is clearly not good enough for your liking, I'm assuming that you have a theory of your own?

I don't agree with your theory. However, I will mention that Lambda mentioned an exception clause to Knox's 7th, so your theory doesn't necessarily violate it. And more then one Battler exists so the reds about him not being the culprit could refer to the Other Battler.

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by Judoh

It's a reference to Higurashi.

L5 refers to the critical point in the Hinamizawa syndrome and how that put Satoshi into a coma.

The plus point of this is that since it's Satoshi's dream Umineko's literally a fiction within a fiction in this theory.

I can see that happening with regards to most of that.

Spoiler:

But it doesn't explain the Hanyuu equivalent in Featherinne, unlike with Bernkastel and Lambda.

Definitely a cool theory, though.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

The culprit of games 1,2,4 is Yasu aka Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice. Not sure about the 3rd, but it's probably Eva that took over after Yasu.

As for the motive:

Yasu's life became a hell after she became the new heir, she came to know her terrible past and she became more self-aware of her damaged body after hearing how she suffered the injury.

To complicate things she was torn apart from two loves, and the situation aggravated when Battler returned to Rokkenjima.

That led Yasu to create a crazy game to decide her fate and the fate of everyone. In this game she creates a serial murder mystery where she is the main culprit. The cousins need to solve this mystery by telling who is the culprit and how she performed her crimes. However to effectively do so they first need to understand the culprit's heart, that is Yasu's heart. All the illusions then would be broken, including Shannon's illusion Kanon's illusion, and Beatrice's illusion.

That is the miracle Yasu is wishing to happen.

Yasu obtains the complicity of almost everyone explaining in detail what she's aiming for and promising money in return. Since she is the new heir and she knows where the gold is, she has the power to do so and all the adults do not have the option to refuse the money she can give them.

Yasu does not tell them that she plans to kill anyone for real, she tells them that it's just a game. Which is why she encounters little opposition. Such huge amount of accomplices is necessary in order to create the illusion of several inexplicable crimes.

Whether she then kills them for real or not, is something that I'm still not sure off, but let's say that she kills the "victims" or some of them after they have played their parts.

After this if the miracle ins't achieved she knows that the island will explode erasing any possible proof of any murder. She knows that even if for some reason she'd be killed, the explosion would still finish them off.

[quoted for truth]

But I don't know about the whole adults were accomplices. Let's see...

I find it difficult to think Eva will just accept any condition to participate in this whole act. Ep.7 even shows that when pretty much everyone agrees with Beatrice about the switch, she alone doubts her. (which may be the case in ep.3)

Then there's Natsuhi. well though I imagine if Yasu reveals her identity as the baby from 19 years ago, even Natsuhi will go silent.

Hmm, who else? Kyrie. Ah, if Kyrie is indeed an accomplice, Ange's abrupt illness can be explained as her motherly love to stay her out of the whole act. Though I don't what reason she had for agreeing in the first place. Then why did Rosa brought Maria? It had been implied that Rosa hates Maria to the core, so I guess she really doesn't care about her well being. In fact if from this game then she can be rid of her, all the more reason to accept. Oh, and I think it's possible Maria is also an accomplice.

Who else? Rudolf. There was the case that he even goes as far as genuflecting in front of Battler to bring him back at that day. If he was an accomplice, then I think it's far more than that. He knows some degree of the truth, and sense a faint hope in Battler in correcting whatever wrong will happen. Also, Rudolf should also know of Battler's reading hobby, so he would also think of him as a great force in the proposed game.

Gohda? I don't think he's an accomplice, but if he is, he's playing a very decent act. I always see him as a timid person who's always in the wrong place at the wrong time .

The rest of the adults need only little convincing, I guess.

But then if the whole adult is indeed acomplices, when did Yasu reveal her plans to them?

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by TehChron

I can see that happening with regards to most of that.

Spoiler:

But it doesn't explain the Hanyuu equivalent in Featherinne, unlike with Bernkastel and Lambda.

Definitely a cool theory, though.

Well the theory was made before she was introduced. So that's why.

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

But then if the whole adult is indeed acomplices, when did Yasu reveal her plans to them?

During the family meeting, I guess? If we accept Double Shkanon, then Kshanon would be the one hanging out with George and the rest of the cousins during this time period. While Yasu would be in the family conference, laying claim to everything, or whatever it is shed be doing.

This fits in with the nature of "Kinzo" as presented in Episode 4.

Originally Posted by Judoh

Well the theory was made before she was introduced. So that's why.

I see...

[Steampunk Librarian]

Originally Posted by TehChron

During the family meeting, I guess? If we accept Double Shkanon, then Kshanon would be the one hanging out with George and the rest of the cousins during this time period. While Yasu would be in the family conference, laying claim to everything, or whatever it is shed be doing.

This fits in with the nature of "Kinzo" as presented in Episode 4.

That makes sense, since we know the adults having that long conference is pretty pivotal to the plot. Assuming becoming the new head means you can be called Kinzo, I think its important to figure out if Yasu regularly speaks with them while the cousins are at the beach.

[erneiz_hyde]

I think Yasu has to reveal her plans to everyone FAR before October 4th, else too much of everything actually went too smooth for a "on the spot" plan (at least for the adults)

Also, I think Yasu has a Trick X to convince the adults that she can make someone living appear as a deader than dead corpse, as a leverage to the scheme. So when someone was actually killed, they can't tell the difference. Because if even one real corpse were identified, the whole adults will retaliate against Yasu and the murder should stop then and there.

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

I think Yasu has to reveal her plans to everyone FAR before October 4th, else too much of everything actually went too smooth for a "on the spot" plan (at least for the adults)

Also, I think Yasu has a Trick X to convince the adults that she can make someone living appear as a deader than dead corpse, as a leverage to the scheme. So when someone was actually killed, they can't tell the difference. Because if even one real corpse were identified, the whole adults will retaliate against Yasu and the murder should stop then and there.

Oh, trick X is Nanjo.

That being said, Yasu could actually offer the gold, and having a Will by Kinzo naming her, or at least someone with qualifications she meets, would act as sufficient leverage. The reason why the meeting would take so long, is due to the nature of Yasu establishing her position, and then negotiating down the Adults in order to work with her scheme/plan/etc.

[kamuinoyume]

You do realize that this Yasu person, would actually be the 18 person on the island, and therefore, it would practically mean that Beatrice's red truth about there only being 17 people would be annulled, or better said, proven as false.Therefore, I would legally be allowed to take anything written in red as a double edge sword, or a complete lie and not take it into consideration, including the whole: Battler-kun is innocent thing?