Macross Frontier - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[qtipbrit]

Originally Posted by Westlo

It's not uncommon for the main character in Macross to not be the best pilot which is another reason why I like the franchise so much.

I agree that there are few series that play out as such. The only one I can think of at the moment would be Code Geass, though it's not necessarily true, since the main character isn't a mecha pilot anyway.

On the topic of Code Geass, I'm hoping Macross fans aren't nearly as rabid.
Here we go:

So far, I'm liking the mecha designs a lot, especially with the nice CG animation used to create them. The use of the itano circus is always a great inclusion, though it's sad that it's not used often nowadays.
Transforming mecha is cool too, though I'm not sure about all of the other ones.
The lack of the mecha army vs. mecha army concept is refreshing as well, though I'm not sure how the aliens will be played out.

However, I'm not really connecting to the characters. The lead seems to be the indecisive, guilt-complexed teenager in a cockpit, some other pilots seem a bit brusque, and I'm quite liking Sheryl, Lanka is great though, and I'm hiping a couple more characters get introduced.

A good follow in general.

[Westlo]

Rating improved a lot with the second episode, out rated Geass by 0.1 and I only mention Geass because Frontier airs in the same time slot as Geass did for it's first season.

*2.7% (*1.1%) 04/12 (Sat) *2:10am-*2:40am TBS Macross FRONTIER

[pinoy78]

Interesting stat Westlo.

Where'd you find the ratings?

[Westlo]

This post right here

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=210

ANN gets around to only posting the top ten like a week after Sigel_Clyne does.

[krln99]

Originally Posted by Cadorna

So the 25 th Fleet is pretty F***k up when she will become Miss Macross

I just remembered that. I'm almost certain Ranka will win "Miss Macross."

[D a m i e n]

Ranka miss macross is highly probable in the macross universe but come on she looks so young you arent even sure she s got her first periode yet.

[pinoy78]

I'm calling it now......Nanase wins the Miss Macross contest.

[iamandragon]

1 point for the music, another for the graphics and 1 more point for the music again.

I watched this because my friend kept nagging me to do, but it was a great let down.
The scenes are great, the cuts are made perfectly and the pace timed well, and breathe taking, but that's just it.

This show really doesn't make sense. There're too many flaws hidden beneath the excitement.
Why would a monster, who was completely unharmed by cannon rounds from the previous, and can only be 'scratched' from missiles (according to Gilliam(FIX: I mean Ozma)), be afraid of the Alto's bullets in the beginning?

Why Gilliam(FIX: I mean Ozma) saw the monster when he just arrived the scene, why didn't he fire at the monster right away? He gave up the golden opportunity to hit the monster when it is at its weakest. And instead, he diverted his attention to Alto. In the previous episode, he was shown to be capable of 'firing on reaction' once he finds his target, so this shouldn't be happening.

And the white monsters, why would they be chasing Alto? Their leader is engaged in combat with Gilliam(FIX: I mean Ozma), so it'd be more sensible to have all 4 of them gang on Gilliam(FIX: I mean Ozma), taking him out in an instant, then move on to the pursuit of Alto(which really has no meaning to them, as they don't know Lanka is with Alto)

And the screaming! Alto have the tendency to scream everytime--when he's shooting, when he's flying, and even in outer-space!(should the wind gusting out shut him up) Doesn't screaming that much actually exhaust him at all? Battle cries can only be done at the start as a 'boost' in personal morale and concentration, but repetitive usage actually have negative effect.

Sheryl is a...well not a character I would like at all. Perhaps there's an explanation to her self-centreness later on? But her songs sure are nice. I wonder what's the name of her concert song?

[ChronoReverse]

This show really doesn't make sense. There're too many flaws hidden beneath the excitement.

It's not really hard to justify with a little thought and attention.

Why would a monster, who was completely unharmed by cannon rounds from the previous, and can only be 'scratched' from missiles (according to Gilliam), be afraid of the Alto's bullets in the beginning?

Missiles and bullets don't hurt the Red too much but it clearly shuddered under the missiles and flinched at bullets. For instance, Red avoid all the capital ship AA fire as well as Ozma's gunpod in the very first episode. It also flinched under the tank fire (Zero states that the overtechnology armor in valkyries are at least as strong as tank armor... gunpods shred VFs). This establishes that despite being damage resistant, it still (doesn't like to)/(can't) take continual fire. Furthermore, Alto was firing from point blank.

Why Gilliam saw the monster when he just arrived the scene, why didn't he fire at the monster right away? He gave up the golden opportunity to hit the monster when it is at its weakest. And instead, he diverted his attention to Alto. In the previous episode, he was shown to be capable of 'firing on reaction' once he finds his target, so this shouldn't be happening

Gilliam died in the first episode so I don't know what you're talking about. However, the first thing he did was blast Red with missiles. Red was too fast though and jumped onto his VF25 even while he was looping in the air for another pass. This is a plenty valid time to shout at Alto to go away if not for the fact that Red was so agile. The distraction proved fatal.

If you're referring to when Ozma found Alto and Ranka, it really doesn't make sense to open up fire on red when it's like 10 meters away from Ranka.

And the white monsters, why would they be chasing Alto? Their leader is engaged in combat with Gilliam, so it'd be more sensible to have all 4 of them gang on Gilliam, taking him out in an instant, then move on to the pursuit of Alto(which really has no meaning to them, as they don't know Lanka is with Alto)

Except they do know. We were given at least three separate cues that the aliens are attuned to Ranka. The only reason Red didn't go after Ranka is because Ozma was occupying its attention. In fact, the only reason Ozma even had a chance to attack its weak-point (FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE!) was because it sensed Ranka's cry and turned.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

It's not really hard to justify with a little thought and attention.

I never have to do that when watching other series...(FMP for example)

Missiles and bullets don't hurt the Red too much but it clearly shuddered under the missiles and flinched at bullets. For instance, Red avoid all the capital ship AA fire as well as Ozma's gunpod in the very first episode. It also flinched under the tank fire (Zero states that the overtechnology armor in valkyries are at least as strong as tank armor... gunpods shred VFs). This establishes that despite being damage resistant, it still (doesn't like to)/(can't) take continual fire. Furthermore, Alto was firing from point blank.

The fact that it is damage resistant means it should be able to endure a few shots from Alto and crush him...Anyone who have the slightest experience in close combat would make such a choice--a scratch for a kill, the best trade option in a battle!

Gilliam died in the first episode so I don't know what you're talking about. However, the first thing he did was blast Red with missiles. Red was too fast though and jumped onto his VF25 even while he was looping in the air for another pass. This is a plenty valid time to shout at Alto to go away if not for the fact that Red was so agile. The distraction proved fatal.

If you're referring to when Ozma found Alto and Ranka, it really doesn't make sense to open up fire on red when it's like 10 meters away from Ranka.

My apologies, I mean Ozma...
Ozma has demonstrated his capability to open fire on reaction in episode 1. He fired at the alien the same time he found out its hiding place. Alto was shooting at the monster at a even closer distance, without harming Lanka, so Ozma should not worry about that.

Except they do know. We were given at least three separate cues that the aliens are attuned to Ranka. The only reason Red didn't go after Ranka is because Ozma was occupying its attention. In fact, the only reason Ozma even had a chance to attack its weak-point (FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE!) was because it sensed Ranka's cry and turned.

Well if the monsters puts chasing Ranka at the highest priority then it's another case...

How can Alto still scream so much and so loud even when in outer-space, though? And he wasn't even in a protective suit, shouldn't his lungs explode?

One more question...how on earth did a knife managed to cut Red into pieces while bullets won't even penetrate!?

[squaresphere]

ok how many series out there have completely spelled the whole plot of the series by ep two... yeah i thought so. Even the current king of hill Code Geass was confusing as heck by the 2nd ep.

as far as the screaming goes, it's pretty much a prerequisite for mecha pilots to scream at some point.

Like the others have stated, the show is pretty much hinting that the aliens are reacting to the singing and to Ranka in particular.

Series like macross require good chuck of suspension of belief because of the tie between aliens and music/culture.

[Kronnang_Dunn]

Originally Posted by rickshaw

Sheryl being a typical famous divas and will maybe get destroyed by a Vajra in the next episode

Episode 06 will be called "Bye Bye Sheryl" & will air on May 8, 2008...

Originally Posted by iamandragon

The fact that it is damage resistant means it should be able to endure a few shots from Alto and crush him...Anyone who have the slightest experience in close combat would make such a choice--a scratch for a kill, the best trade option in a battle!

Vajra seemed smarter during the start of the battle, but the red one went in a stupifying frenzy when it found Ranka. Maybe it was confused somehow by her screams... & if is alive, it can feel pain...

Originally Posted by iamandragon

How can Alto still scream so much and so loud even when in outer-space, though? And he wasn't even in a protective suit, shouldn't his lungs explode?

Vacuum exposure decompression occurs in a matter of several seconds. In the low pressure environment, gas exchange in the lungs would continue as normal but would result in the removal of all gases, including oxygen, from the bloodstream. After 9 to 12 seconds, the deoxygenated blood would reach the brain, and loss of consciousness would result. Death would gradually follow after two minutes of exposure - though the limits are uncertain. If actions are taken quickly, and normal pressure restored within around 90 seconds, the victim may well make a full recovery.

Explosive decompression only occurs in accidents involving pressured vessels.

Originally Posted by iamandragon

how on earth did a knife managed to cut Red into pieces while bullets won't even penetrate!?

Hehehe, did u noticed the green light on it? It was no ordinary knife... & is Macross Frontier, not Earth, hehe...

[ChronoReverse]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

I never have to do that when watching other series...(FMP for example)

You'd be very surprised how often instinct and what seems to be "obvious" doesn't make a whit of sense when you apply real logic to it. That is to say, what you think is logical often isn't.

The fact that it is damage resistant means it should be able to endure a few shots from Alto and crush him...Anyone who have the slightest experience in close combat would make such a choice--a scratch for a kill, the best trade option in a battle!

And so? It's clearly not human and doesn't even react in human ways. If this wasn't already obvious from the way it moved, reacted and looked I don't know what would make it obvious to you

Ozma has demonstrated his capability to open fire on reaction in episode 1. He fired at the alien the same time he found out its hiding place. Alto was shooting at the monster at a even closer distance, without harming Lanka, so Ozma should not worry about that.

Wait, you think that firing far away from Ranka but towards her means it's EASIER to avoid hitting her? This is a machine gun we're talking about here. If you haven't noticed, Alto was beside Ranka and firing away from her (although the shell casings were an issue).

How can Alto still scream so much and so loud even when in outer-space, though? And he wasn't even in a protective suit, shouldn't his lungs explode?

He wasn't in outer space when he was screaming. Didn't you notice all air rushing past him?

And didn't you notice the sudden silence in the scene when there were outside the shell?

Besides, your lungs don't explode in space. Your blood doesn't boil either and you won't freeze either. See what I mean by instinct? It's not right. Realistic is unrealistic.

Finally, sound in space is standard for "popular" scifi. If this is your complaint against Frontier, you should stop watching scifi.

One more question...how on earth did a knife managed to cut Red into pieces while bullets won't even penetrate!?

Cmon, this one is obvious too. He sank the knife into the gap in the neck between the armor. Not to mention the knife was glowing.





You know, you talk about not making sense but the examples you give are things done in other shows all the time. It's even more disingenuous that you mentioned FMP earlier then rag on the knife later. They use the knife ALL the time in FMP and to make it worse, throwing the knife is often more effective that shooting. But it doesn't really matter as long as it's internally consistent. If a melee weapon is stronger in XYZ circumstance in said universe, then it goes.

[cerrian]

It was my understanding that the red Varja had a hardened armored exterior shell while having a softer "under belly". You can see this is supported by the way the animators have the red Varja react whenever it is under fire. It is constantly facing its side towards the incoming fire, brings up its arms to cover its face and neck area, or is curling up into a ball.

Those are all traits that we would recognize as defensive measures to protect a known weakness.


On the topic of Alto's screaming, I found it to be neither excessive nor inappropriate. It was used in situations of extreme duress or when he was trying to exert himself. It is actually quite normal and realistic. In fact, you commonly see people react this way in sports, emergencies, and most definitely combat.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by cerrian

It was my understanding that the red Varja had a hardened armored exterior shell while having a softer "under belly". You can see this is supported by the way the animators have the red Varja react whenever it is under fire. It is constantly facing its side towards the incoming fire, brings up its arms to cover its face and neck area, or is curling up into a ball.

I propose this weapon to be the standard weapon on all fighters in the next Macross series:


I guess Macross is not really my cup of tea. The nick of Alto in episode 1 gave me the vibes to watch on, but without a partner he's not as attracting as Lelouch...

[ChronoReverse]

And yet again, you don't mind FMP when they use the combat knife ALL THE TIME.

You're just being facetious for the sake being so.

[iamandragon]

My apologies about that then...(I don't really remember many scenes of a knife being used in FMP, though)

[edf91]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

My apologies about that then...(I don't really remember many scenes of a knife being used in FMP, though)

Knife/melee weapon is the weapon of choice of the various Venom/Venom clones, you know... Not that they don't use range, but their range weapon is basically the Lamda Driver...

[Skane]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

My apologies about that then...(I don't really remember many scenes of a knife being used in FMP, though)

I'm quite a fond fan of the FMP! series, and I can vouch that knives are used often in Mecha-combat. Both in the first season, and in TSR.

That said, I often find it futile to judge one mecha series based on another mecha series. For unless they share the same world, the rules will be different for the both of them. There's no Lambada Driver in Macross, and there are no aliens in FMP!

Cheers.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

My apologies about that then...(I don't really remember many scenes of a knife being used in FMP, though)

This is just like reading "I'm a fan of DBZ but I don't remember many scenes with a Kamehameha being used in it." That's how much they use that knife in FMP.... at least you tried to justify your low score even if you missed so much obvious stuff.