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Old 2018-03-19, 01:22   Link #1621
Shinji103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
I would be surprised if they let Flash Gala run during the automatic 100 draws. It's not enough to spark on its own, but it's still during the boost to SSR rates. I didn't think they'd be that kind.
I would’ve thought the same thing, but are they really going to leave the last three days a blank right after doing a double rate gacha? I’ve sparked during double rate gacha before and while I did get a number of SSRs, it wasn’t so many that getting a free 10 10x draws during 6% SSR would be broken.
But remember how they’ve taken out all the rolls between 30 and 100 for this roulette, so they won’t roll as high anymore except for the 100 roll, which they may have gotten earlier in the roulette event and thus most likely get nothing higher than a 30.
But ultimately, if they wanted to avoid the guaranteed 100 draw on the last day, why didn’t they have the double rate gacha go up until the last day? Instead they have this double rate go up until three days ‘til the end, the length of a 6% gacha.

And like I said, it would be disappointing. Giving flash gacha during a free gacha roulette, only to end the gacha roulette with “blank”? Either way though, we’ll see in a few hours. I’m holding out hope. At the very least, they won’t let these last three days go out with a regular, bland gacha.
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Old 2018-03-19, 03:20   Link #1622
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
I see the logic with Omega here. But I don't see the reason why using ability cap lift on the Omega, nor the reasoning of not using both Mary and Vira with Elysium.
Because you are focusing only 1 buff while disregarding other utility and damage output. As I said, with that setup, you basically have to forgo either Lucio or Sorn. Logically speaking you gotta keep Sorn to have a remote chance of capping damage.
Quote:
Assuming the characters can hit cap damage on normal attacks. Especially after Thong's ougi, at the very least Vira should be hitting the cap cleanly after buff under a proper build light grid.
That means one less TA is a loss of 880K damage each turn, 968K if you use normal attack cap up instead of ability.
This difference of damage can be compensated with ability or buff, such as Lucio's nuke or self echo damage. Granted, it is on a medium cooldown range, but same goes for Mary and Vira's TA buff. You obviously can just use them in a rotation, but as far as it goes, they will make you maintaining that data every 2 ougi rotation at best. You obviously will use Elysian to make up for this part, but again, the other characters don't do anything much in the meantime: we have to consider what both contribute in the lot: Mary has average stats and doesn't give anything else aside of the TA (the single buff is trash since it is subject to heavy diminishing return if you have enough swords), whereas Vira mainly provide protection. There is no veil, nuke, echo damage or whatever that can provide utility or more damage than simple TA.

Be it people like me with 8 chev swords or eden/gambateinn zeus setup, I've never seen someone bothering with that kind of setup considering how it goes in general.

Quote:
Lucio and Thong's ability damage gain from the cap lift is also around 960K, but that is every 5 and 7 turn. While you just need one character who can hit the cap, they can make up that damage with every 3 turn rotation. Greatly exceeds that if you have more than one character that can hit cap.
And hitting that normal attack cap is going to be much easier after the light Magna II thanks to Magna Stamina.
Ability Cap up is there to be used for light but also different elements. But even for Light, reaching damage cap, even with Sorn 5*, isn't exactly that common. Metatron bow will change that, but prior getting them, you'd stay on abi damage cap up. But after a certain point, you will most likely pick normal attack cap up, yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
And like I said, it would be disappointing. Giving flash gacha during a free gacha roulette, only to end the gacha roulette with “blank”? Either way though, we’ll see in a few hours. I’m holding out hope. At the very least, they won’t let these last three days go out with a regular, bland gacha.
They just don't want people to have everything on a silver plate, that's all. They deliberately splitted the swimsuit characters so players wouldn't be able to spark just anything with some free pulls. In any case, we got confirmation that Diantha, Narumea etc will be in today's gacha, but it is definitely not a Grand/Flash fes.
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Old 2018-03-19, 04:42   Link #1623
AnimeFangirl
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Originally Posted by Redoaxe View Post
So I just sparked Sturm today, wasn't feeling satisfied with my 300 draws, decided to do another 10... guess who I got?
Depending on what kind of FLB Ixaba gets, that could be a wonderful thing.
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Old 2018-03-19, 05:02   Link #1624
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
They just don't want people to have everything on a silver plate, that's all. They deliberately splitted the swimsuit characters so players wouldn't be able to spark just anything with some free pulls. In any case, we got confirmation that Diantha, Narumea etc will be in today's gacha, but it is definitely not a Grand/Flash fes.
They could have just split the summer characters into two flash gachas and would still achieve the same effect then. Allowing sparking for one set of characters and not the other.
So they’re being ass****s and putting Diantha in a three-day non-flash gacha because they know everybody would spark for her. And ending the birthday roulette with a disappointing gacha after all. Nice one, Cygames. Anticlimactic.
So if the summer characters are appearing now, is this that one time they appear all year? And are they doing another flash gacha at the end of the month with all the summer characters outside of the free roulette, or are they not doing one at all? Or are they going to do another normal flash gacha with no summer characters? Is this my one time to spark for Diantha until next year?

I have no idea what to do now. Thanks, Cygames. It’s confusing, manipulative crap like this that makes me want to quit these games.
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Old 2018-03-19, 06:01   Link #1625
AnimeFangirl
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You overestimated Cygames' generosity. Why would they give a great moneymaker away so easily? They're running a business here, remember?

And you'll get a chance to spark Diantha in either flashfest or legfest in July/August when summer characters start appearing. If you can't wait that long, that's your problem.
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Old 2018-03-19, 06:18   Link #1626
Shinji103
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How did I say they would ever “give her away”? How is a 6% SSR rate “giving her away”? I could roll my 10x10 on a Flash gacha 6% SSR rate and very likely still not get her. Where are you reading me expecting Cygames to “give her away”? The only “give away” system they have is where I spend 300 draws to spark for her. So how am I expecting that they “give her away”?

And you’re clearly not understanding what I was talking about, because it had nothing to do with any wait. Especially since I already stated long ago that I was saving my draws for sparking her this summer before we even knew there would be a roulette gacha, let alone that they would host the summer characters this month. Read and understand someone’s post before lashing, please. And I know you didn’t really read my above post because you didn’t acknowledge the whole second part of it and you’d know what I’m actually talking about.
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Old 2018-03-19, 06:56   Link #1627
Klashikari
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There is another legit reason to split the swimsuit pool: probabilities.
Simply put, they had to split the SSR pool because having all the swimsuit girls would dilute the gacha rate for every single one of them. Of course, they could potentially make a selected few with a rate up, but that would obviously lead to complains about characters not having a bias compared to another one. This is also the very reason why the guys were in the gacha before this one, and they obviously wanted to keep the girls for the Grand/Flash as a way to promote Jeanne.

As for making a split rotation of a Grand/Flash (2 days with Jeanne, 2 days with Diantha), this would defeat the purpose of promoting Jeanne since that period would be too short for a popular character like her. As such, I'm not surprised they banked everything on her, then have Diantha as a second potential cash flow, assuming people didn't pick her with the anniversary ticket (and I'm pretty certain they picked Diantha for not being in the Grand/Flash exactly because a lot of people ticketed her anyway).

They could have made 2 Grand/Flash of 3-4 days back to back, but that wouldn't be great in term of business, especially that would be 6-8 days of free 10~100 pulls under the 6% rate.

Finally, remember the diluted % issue? Well, Jeanne and the other rate up girls had 0.175% chance to drop, whereas Diantha, Korwa and Narumea have... 0.233%. So you effectively have HIGHER chance to get Diantha in her current gacha rate than Jeanne during hers. I daresay the current gacha rate for Diantha is probably the highest you could ever get, aside of the original rate up when she was introduced for the first time. The fact there are only 3 other rate up SSR with her makes that gacha roster "good" compared to the usual rates.
For your instance, if Diantha, Korwa and Narumea were included in Jeanne gacha, their respective gacha rate would have tanked to exactly 0.1% since rate up SSR lead to a 0.7% SSR rate while the rest make up for the 5.3%. That's even less than half of Diantha's current gacha rate.

I won't pretend they are generous whatsoever, nor they couldn't make a healthier business choice. That said, what's important is the individual gacha rate, not the SSR rate.
The general rule is as follow: Rate up % is fixed at 0.7% regardless of the type of gacha, and the SSR being chosen for that rate up equally split that 0.7% chance among themselves. This means that you absolutely want a gacha with the fewest characters/summons in the rate up pool to maximize your chance of obtaining what you want. 6% chance of getting an SSR doesn't mean anything for a specific character or summon if the rate up selection is bloated. You just screw your actual chances to get what you want for more extra SSR alongside.

That's why people who really want a character usually roll when they are introduced for the first time because they usually are alone for that rate, meaning you get the full 0.7% chance. Characters introduced with others, commonly during fes gacha, are harder to get thanks to gacha rate dilution.

tl;dr: If you really want a specific character, roll when they are alone or at most with 2 other targets. If you want more SSR, you gotta wait for a fes, and pray you somehow get that character or summon before the spark counter is full.
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Old 2018-03-19, 07:15   Link #1628
AnimeFangirl
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
How did I say they would ever “give her away”? How is a 6% SSR rate “giving her away”? I could roll my 10x10 on a Flash gacha 6% SSR rate and very likely still not get her. Where are you reading me expecting Cygames to “give her away”? The only “give away” system they have is where I spend 300 draws to spark for her. So how am I expecting that they “give her away”?
A 3% -> 6% rate means players have twice as much chance of pulling her than they would normally. And that counts whether they spark for her or not. They're not gonna make it that easy to get her.

Not to mention unless you spark with mobacoins, you're not "spending" 300 draws because Cygames gets $0 from your spark. From a financial perspective, a free spark is definitely a giveaway. And that's not counting all the other SSRs you'll be getting during that spark, all lost potential income for them.

Regarding the second part of your post, I already told you (today, and at a previous time) that ALL summer characters usually appear in a legfest in summer. If anything their appearance in March is the aberration, not the norm. So this isn't your only chance to spark Diantha. Why are you getting so worked up about this anyway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That's why people who really want a character usually roll when they are introduced for the first time because they usually are alone for that rate, meaning you get the full 0.7% chance. Characters introduced with others, commonly during fes gacha, are harder to get thanks to gacha rate dilution.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that for rolls outside Fest, you have a lower chance of getting an SSR in the first place. However if you do get an SSR, you have a higher chance of that SSR being a rate-up character. Am I right so far? So if you only want a particular character, then rolling on their rate up is best. But if you're hoping to pick up other useful SSRs along the way then Fest is best. Correct? I'd like to clear this up once and for all.
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Old 2018-03-19, 07:16   Link #1629
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl View Post
A 3% -> 6% rate means players have twice as much chance of pulling her than they would normally.
That's incorrect.
As I demonstrated already, 3%-6% doesn't matter if you want a specific character. it only matters if you want more SSR.

Rate Up is fixed at 0.7% total, regardless if it is a normal gacha period or a festival period.
Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that for rolls outside Fest, you have a lower chance of getting an SSR in the first place. However if you do get an SSR, you have a higher chance of that SSR being a rate-up character. Am I right so far? So if you only want a particular character, then rolling on their rate up is best. But if you're hoping to pick up other useful SSRs along the way then Fest is best. Correct? I'd like to clear this up once and for all.
it is just as I said in my conclusion: rate up is the way to go if you want a very specific character or summon. SSR % has absolutely no impact for your actual chance to get them. Festival gachas basically increase your chances to get everything but what you really want.

It is very important not to think festival as "twice more chance to get what I want" but "twice more chance to get SSR" unless your wishlist is like half of the gacha pool.
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Old 2018-03-19, 07:24   Link #1630
AnimeFangirl
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Umm. Now I'm confused. Usually the specific character you would want is an SSR. 100 pulls under 6% means an average of 6 SSRs. For 3% that's 3. So you might have a slightly lower chance of getting the 1 SSR you want, but a much higher chance of getting more SSRs which is a good thing, right? Especially since one of the 6 could be the one you want.

i.e. the loss of the one you want is offset by the gains in the other good stuff you get. So unless you absolutely must have the rate-up character you're better off taking your chances at a fest. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 2018-03-19, 07:27   Link #1631
Klashikari
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3 and 6% indeed means you get on average 3 or 6 SSR after 100 pulls for the respective SSR rate. But in both case, 0.7% of such rate is dedicate for the rate up. This means that on average, regardless of the gacha, if you pull 1000 times, you should get 7 times that weapon or summon.
It is basically a split pie: 0.7% of the SSR has to be one of the rate up characters or summons, while the rest (2.3 or 5.3%) are split among the remaining SSR that aren't part of the rate up. Think of it the other way around: suppose the non rate up SSR are useless to you, regardless of the gacha rate, you have equal chance to have what you want, while you just increased the "gold junk" you might have.
So in a nutshell, rate up is for what you want, festival is for whatever.

Since Shinji really wants Diantha, the best course of action for him is to actually roll that normal gacha period, because it is very unlikely Diantha will be back in a future gacha period with just 2 other characters. The thing is that higher SSR rate doesn't affect the actual Rate up %. it is the number of characters that dictate the rate alone.

Of course, if someone were to spark and is willing to spend 300 rolls, then you should wait for summer festival, because you will get that character no matter what so might as well increase your number of SSR alongside. Spark alone makes this issue trivial as long you are willing to spend your jewels/tickets or money for that.
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Old 2018-03-19, 07:31   Link #1632
AnimeFangirl
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Ahhh, I finally get it. If you're just pulling normally then it's best to pull for your character rate-up with as few other rivals as possible. But if you're going to spark then it's best to wait for a fest and get the most bang for your (imaginary) buck. Gotcha!
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Old 2018-03-19, 09:18   Link #1633
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl View Post
A 3% -> 6% rate means players have twice as much chance of pulling her than they would normally. And that counts whether they spark for her or not. They're not gonna make it that easy to get her.
Thatís hardly easy. I may have said the double draw rate was godly just the other day, but thatís for getting SSRs in general.

Quote:
Not to mention unless you spark with mobacoins, you're not "spending" 300 draws because Cygames gets $0 from your spark. From a financial perspective, a free spark is definitely a giveaway. And that's not counting all the other SSRs you'll be getting during that spark, all lost potential income for them.
I never said actual paying was involved, but you donít build up all those sparks for nothing. Thatís a lot of gaming you have to do to build up all that. And the number of SSRs you get for it isnít that many. I sparked for Orchid last time, which meant double SSR rate, and I really didnít get as many as most would believe. For my 300 draws, I got maybe seven SSRs, plus my spark selection. But that number includes duplicates, and I saw none of the limited characters or their weapons except Orchid who I drew, and Drang who I sparked for. Probably should have sparked for Black Knight though.

Quote:
Regarding the second part of your post, I already told you (today, and at a previous time) that ALL summer characters usually appear in a legfest in summer. If anything their appearance in March is the aberration, not the norm. So this isn't your only chance to spark Diantha. Why are you getting so worked up about this anyway?
I remember that, but at the same time weíre not really sure exactly what anybody will do at any later date. I just donít like the possibility that Iíll have waited for a flash fest with Diantha later, only to find out they decided not to do it later.
As for me getting worked up over this, normally I donít. But I had a bad day yesterday, and my tolerance was.........a good bit below average. Though I still donít like how they made it look like they were giving another flash gacha today by making that gap before the end of the roulette gacha.




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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
They could have made 2 Grand/Flash of 3-4 days back to back, but that wouldn't be great in term of business, especially that would be 6-8 days of free 10~100 pulls under the 6% rate.
For this, thatís why they took away all the pulls between 30 and 100. (remember that last time we could get anything in between, but not anymore) And with the 100 draw rate at 1.25%, not that many people would be getting one beside the guaranteed 100 on the last day.

Quote:
Finally, remember the diluted % issue? Well, Jeanne and the other rate up girls had 0.175% chance to drop, whereas Diantha, Korwa and Narumea have... 0.233%. So you effectively have HIGHER chance to get Diantha in her current gacha rate than Jeanne during hers. I daresay the current gacha rate for Diantha is probably the highest you could ever get, aside of the original rate up when she was introduced for the first time. The fact there are only 3 other rate up SSR with her makes that gacha roster "good" compared to the usual rates.
For your instance, if Diantha, Korwa and Narumea were included in Jeanne gacha, their respective gacha rate would have tanked to exactly 0.1% since rate up SSR lead to a 0.7% SSR rate while the rest make up for the 5.3%. That's even less than half of Diantha's current gacha rate.
But conversely, while getting Diantha over other SSRs may be more likely, the chance you get that chance to get her is halved. You first have to hit that 3% instead of 6% now.

Quote:
If you want more SSR, you gotta wait for a fes, and pray you somehow get that character or summon before the spark counter is full.
And this is what I was hoping for. And last time I sparked (was aiming for Orchid), I actually got her way early in my draws. I decided to keep going to get other SSRs.
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Old 2018-03-19, 09:40   Link #1634
Klashikari
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
For this, that’s why they took away all the pulls between 30 and 100. (remember that last time we could get anything in between, but not anymore) And with the 100 draw rate at 1.25%, not that many people would be getting one beside the guaranteed 100 on the last day.
Actually, it is the opposite: the old roulette was way too random to the point the average number of roll is quite lower than the current roulette: every single result past 30 were only 0.5% to happen. Even 30 was merely 6.5%.

Right now, it is 19.05 pulls on average per day, thus the current roulette yield 347.65 pulls on average (19.05 * 13 + 100).
The previous roulette had a much more skewed probability chart, leading to a 16.4 pull per day on average, thus 246 pulls on average (16.4 * 15).
If we take the respective average per day for a legfes period (4 days), that's 76.2 VS 65.6. As result, you are likely to get around 1 extra 10 pulls within the same period of time compared to the previous roulette.

The fact you call pull between 40 to 90 pulls inbetween doesn't really make up for the much larger % of pulls higher than 10. The previous roulette had only 40% chance of giving you more than 10 pulls per day. The current roulette is the complete opposite: you have 60% chance of having more than 10 pulls per day.
Quote:
But conversely, while getting Diantha over other SSRs may be more likely, the chance you get that chance to get her is halved. You first have to hit that 3% instead of 6% now.
No, you are making the exact same mistake as animefan: the gacha doesn't work with a double roll at all. If you add every single SSR rate in a given gacha, you will get exactly 3 or 6% depending of the gacha period. The rate you see in the gacha details is exactly how it works: for any given pull, you have exactly 0.233% chance of pulling Diantha. Nothing more, nothing less. Right now, the 3% SSR rate is basically Diantha's 0.233%, Korwa's 0.233%, Narumea's 0.233% + every other SSR, forming the 3%. If her gacha was a Grand or Legend festa, it would have been the exact same 0.233% for all 3 girls, and the other SSR would have increased % instead. In other words, you have 0.7% of pulling one of the rate up characters, and either 2.3% or 5.3% chance of dropping any other SSR from the non rate up pool.
That's why I told you that if you had those 3 characters in Jeanne's pool, all of them would have a miserable 0.1% chance, because that would mean her gacha would have 7 rate up characters, severely diluting the chance of the one character you want.

The game doesn't decide if you have a SSR before determing which one. Instead, the game select what you get. It is a single RNG roll, and the advertised SSR rate is merely the sum rate of all SSR in the pool.
Let's take the current gacha pool:
There are 56 summons with an individual rate of 0.014% This means you have 0.784% of pulling a SSR summon.
Meanwhile, there are 100 SSR characters, 97 with a 0.015% individual rate, and the 3 rate up characters at 0.233%.
The grand total is: 0.784% + 1.455% + 0.699% = 2.938%, which is "coincidentally" close to the usual 3% chance of getting an SSR under normal circumstances. You might argue it isn't exactly 3%, but that's is technically not possible since they don't have a neat number of characters and summons that could split the 3% neatly without going past 4 digits behind the comma. That's why they specifically stated that the numbers displayed are rounded down and might not add up to 100% if you go as far as calculating everything.

As I said, rate up % is not affected by the gacha period at all. A rate up character will have the exact same rate regardless if it is a gacha period or fest period. It is simple 0.7% divided by the number of rate up characters. Grand/Legend Festa only increase the chances of having other SSR. That's why you will never see a rate up character going higher than 0.7% because that probability is fixed regardless of the type of gacha.
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Old 2018-03-19, 12:06   Link #1635
Kurohane
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Cygames recently tweeted that Rei is going to be in the Detective Conan Collab. This is going to be interesting. More character reveals to come between now and when the event starts.
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Old 2018-03-19, 19:26   Link #1636
Redoaxe
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Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl View Post
Depending on what kind of FLB Ixaba gets, that could be a wonderful thing.
Maybe if it's like massive atk + med enmity I could use one in my magna pool, cause I don't have Agni or Shiva.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post

I never said actual paying was involved, but you donít build up all those sparks for nothing. Thatís a lot of gaming you have to do to build up all that. And the number of SSRs you get for it isnít that many. I sparked for Orchid last time, which meant double SSR rate, and I really didnít get as many as most would believe. For my 300 draws, I got maybe seven SSRs, plus my spark selection. But that number includes duplicates, and I saw none of the limited characters or their weapons except Orchid who I drew, and Drang who I sparked for. Probably should have sparked for Black Knight though.
I got like 4 new SSR characters including the one I sparked in my 300 draws.
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Old 2018-03-19, 23:48   Link #1637
dragon1412
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lol got 2x rolls today, got Diantha. It's bring tear to my eyes how in entire flash fes with SSR rate up and i only got 3 SSRs with around 70 rolls, and now i got Diantha on 1st 10 rolls without rate up
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Old 2018-03-19, 23:51   Link #1638
Shinji103
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I want it to go on the record that I’m being completely honest with you guys and not hiding anything.

That being said, I probably will never live this down.

Scored a 30-roll today.

And on my last draw, Diantha.

I had a feeling yesterday would come back and bite me in the ass. -_-

At least now that’s one less SSR I want to spark for.
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Old 2018-03-20, 02:20   Link #1639
dragon1412
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I want it to go on the record that Iím being completely honest with you guys and not hiding anything.

That being said, I probably will never live this down.

Scored a 30-roll today.

And on my last draw, Diantha.

I had a feeling yesterday would come back and bite me in the ass. -_-

At least now thatís one less SSR I want to spark for.
oh brothers though i actually not that thrill, since i don't play water, I do have the supposed dream team with Summer Izmir, Altair and now diantha, still absolutely no clue which weapons to get for water team except the Magna knife
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Old 2018-03-20, 05:06   Link #1640
AnimeFangirl
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The dog gossips too much.
I got 30 rolls and drew nothing. Not even an R character. I feel so left out...

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Originally Posted by dragon1412 View Post
oh brothers though i actually not that thrill, since i don't play water, I do have the supposed dream team with Summer Izmir, Altair and now diantha, still absolutely no clue which weapons to get for water team except the Magna knife
Here: https://gbf.wiki/Basic_Grids
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