Zero no Tsukaima (third season) - Episode 1 Discussion / Poll

[Rising Dragon]

Am I the only one here who thinks its rather ridiculous you're debating morals and relationships of fictional characters in a fictional world, that doesn't actually exist?

As it is we hardly have to worry about Saito forcing himself on Louise. As we saw in the episode, she is perfectly capable of fending him off.

[Darknemo2000]

True, but again I like when relationship is more mutual than this...

And you are talking to a hardcore evangelion fan.. Believe me, there discuss much more serious themes regarding coming from fictional characters...Like Heideggers time and being conception, Camus notion of human or the difference between libido and thanatos.

Basically a philosophy and psychology is also a fiction, sociology theories are also a fiction yet they are real in a sense as well. Just because the characters are fictional doesnt mean that the problems behind them are fictional either.

[Deadwings]

I agree. Fictional characters, real behaviors. That's what makes anime interesting, if not, then what's the point in watching? (out of topic)

I also thing Saito looks more like a rapist in the anime compared to the novels. Anyway, I already made my mind that ZnT Anime and ZnT Novels are different things and any similaryties are just coincidences

Spoiler for Ep1:

Loved the final scene when Louise was crying... Saito looked just... so mature... (why did that idiot take the perv out?)

[seiji_kun]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Or how about you learning something about relationship? Like what does mutual relationship means? Or maybe learn what word "compared" means as you obviously ignored it?

Spoiler for novels:

You cannot force the other partner into a relationship just because you think she is ready. Louise is still confused and Saito is forcing himself on her.

Well again, anime Louise is still brat compared to novel one, but anime Saito still does look more like a rapist compared to his novel original.

If you're gonna educate me bout relationships I think I'll pass. The only thing I see is you beeing immature bye calling him a rapist when it's just some harmless comic relief. I haven't seen him force himself on Louise, the only thing I saw was him trying to be more intimate with the person he loves who clearly loves him back but just doesn't want to admit it.

The moment he's really forcing himself on her, then feel free to bash him.

[Rising Dragon]

Its hardly fair to be comparing Zero no Tsukaima with Evangelion, of all things. This anime was not meant to be as serious, or as mindscrewing, as Eva. Like Deadwings said, which I agree with, the anime and the novels are different. And thus, one shouldn't compare the two. If you don't like how the anime is turning out... don't watch it! No one's forcing you to.

[gabbytay]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Its hardly fair to be comparing Zero no Tsukaima with Evangelion, of all things. This anime was not meant to be as serious, or as mindscrewing, as Eva. Like Deadwings said, which I agree with, the anime and the novels are different. And thus, one shouldn't compare the two. If you don't like how the anime is turning out... don't watch it! No one's forcing you to.

Oh this Anime is mindscrewing.. It's screwing the minds of Novel readers

[Darknemo2000]

Rising Dragon, you are contradicting yourself when you are saying that we should not take ZnT anime fictional characters too seriously, but you are saying that Eva is serious though it is also made of the same fictional characters.

Yes those both animes are different in their genres but again I was commenting on your comment that one should not be taking fictional characters too seriously and gave and example of evangelion where the fiction characters are taken seriously leading to a serious discussions way beyond fictional characters.

What I want to say that you cannot just write down a possible seriousness just because it is a fictional character. Though it is a fiction the problems are still real existing in our everyday life and you can discuss them seriously enough even if it takes fictional characters to provoke it.

Yes, ZnT is much lighter gender and you can criticize the seriousness based on that but you cannot do so just because they are 'fictional characters'.

Classic books also have fictional characters and yet we can discuss them seriously too. It being a fiction is not a criteria to disregard the problems that it may have.

And even if its a lighter gender does that mean that it cannot have something serious in it?

It just depends on your personal point of view what you see in the anime or book, which always is different within different people.

[Sun Shine]

Wow that really sucked.The plot really is becoming more and more boring, the charcaters are getting more annoying as well. I nearly fell asleep in that episode, any hopes of this being as good as the first season are fastly disappearing.

[VORTIA]

Um, I'd like to remind everyone that Saito & Louise got married back on Albion. If my wife didn't put out for months on end, I'd be a bit pushy too.

[Darknemo2000]

I would like you remind that they didn't got married. It was just a fake ceremony.

[X_Danny_X]

poor saito, he has a girl that doesnt admit her feelings, gets jealous of other girls, and doesnt want to give him any loving. yep, i know the type!

saito needs to get down with the maid, the Princess or somebody else to a good degree for Louise to open up or give him some!! screw it go for the other girls Saito!!!!!!

[seiji_kun]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

I would like you remind that they didn't got married. It was just a fake ceremony.

So Louise wasn't begging him to marry her? It doesn't mather if theire was an official clerk or not they vowed everlasting love to each other. It wasn't fake in the eyes of Louise & Saito...

[Darknemo2000]

the problem is...That he does like Louise the most.

You know it is not like in some shop where you can chose whom to like and when. Siesta would probably be more suited for normal relationship...Henrietta she is bit too two-faced to really grow the trust..and with Louise...the relationship will always be more exciting than with Siesta but also less calm and less safe...

But again Saito loves Louise... And this makes all discussions on who is more suited for him bit pointless.

seiji_kun, it was a fake ceremony. neither of them dwell on that fact further on, it is never remembered though you have to admit that the episode 1 would have been perfect for that given the situation...

Basically, Saito thinks that this all marriage thing was just Louise trying to try out new things before her supposed death (yes, he is not the brightest fellow around) while Louise is too prideful to admit it.

if it would have been such an important it would have been remembered but it is treated just as if it never happened for the aforementioned reasons.

Now if the ceremony would have been real and official they could not escape this fact by interpretation (or misinterpreting, on Saito's case), they would still be a husband and wife, yet the official ceremony never happened and even this fake one ended without conclusion.

[OverFunk]

This episode had more development than all of Season 2. I can't believe people still get way with calling Louise a tsundere without personality, she showed lots of it this time.

[rastilin]

I gave it a 3, it was actively bad...

* Saito has the personality of a wet blanket, he's actively unlikeable as a lead. I wished for bad things to happen to him.
* When he acts heroic, he's so cliched, again, bad things should happen just for that.
* They failed to make the void familiar interesting even though they had so much material to work with. Same world as Saito, mage, poisoned an army, single-handedly redesigned a fleet. With everything, she was still horribly lame.
* The other characters walked around, they talked, but in the end they show no self-will, just marionettes playing out the roles that were assigned to them at the beginning of time without deviation. That's bad writing.

I can't believe I waited for this, this is irritating.

[seiji_kun]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

seiji_kun, it was a fake ceremony. neither of them dwell on that fact further on, it is never remembered though you have to admit that the episode 1 would have been perfect for that given the situation...

Basically, Saito thinks that this all marriage thing was just Louise trying to try out new things before her supposed death (yes, he is not the brightest fellow around) while Louise is too prideful to admit it.

if it would have been such an important it would have been remembered but it is treated just as if it never happened for the aforementioned reasons.

Now if the ceremony would have been real and official they could not escape this fact by interpretation (or misinterpreting, on Saito's case), they would still be a husband and wife, yet the official ceremony never happened and even this fake one ended without conclusion.

I don't see any point for him dwelling up on it when he knows in what for situation he is. It would be pointless for him to even ask for a real ceremony when he knows her family would never approve at this point.

And the anime wouldn't even have the time for Saito going in an arguement over that wedding. Like I said, the important part is the exchange of vows and that they clearly love each other. Which the anime made clear this episode that Saito is sure bout that now, or didn't he clearly said the important thing is "you love me, I love you".

And let's be glad that the ceremony wasn't official or they wouldn't have continue ZnT prolly. Like all romance animes out theire when theire is a perfect conclusion they'll prolly rap it up.

At least that's how an animeviewer who isn't able to read the ZnT novels beyond volume 5 sees it. I'm sure the novels explain it a lot better but that's not our fault, we're just trying to enjoy this series as much as possible and we can't see the flaws between anime Saito and novel Saito.

[Supah Em]

my head is spinning from all this crying and whining... well better watch the episode first ( but i feel that ill be giving a positive mark on this)

[spardajackal]

I think it was a bit better than the 2nd series, but it needs a lot of work if they want to keep people interested, the story felt a little bland though, at least there was a hint of one, still, there wasn't a blinding amount of fanservice which is a plus, though i admit that i am only watching it to find out how come sylpide becomes human (or does she?)

All in all it does have potential, besides there is a whole series left so it could turn out really good (though that is unlikely in my opinion)

[Skyfall]

I would like to remind people that no spoilers are allowed in weekly episode discussion threads, as stated in the guidelines. If you want to talk about the novels, use the corresponding thread. But novel spoilers must not be posted in this thread. Thank you.

[FatalMemory]

I wouldn't call anything Saito does, "forcing".

Even Makoto didn't "force" himself onto any of the girls in School Days, he knew they actually wanted what he was offering, that's not to say the plot wasn't idiotic though.