Claymore Chapter 98

[necrosis6]

Everyone seems quite touched by Beth crying, but just last chapter we were hearing how the destroyer was remote controlling everyone... So do people have any opinion on what really happened now? If the parasite was in control, Beth wouldn't be crying. So, was Beth taken over or not? It seems to me that she had to awaken in order to not be taken over. Awaken beings seem to be immune to the infection while claymores aren't.

[Charmeya]

I stay with it,

this Piece of Shit deserves the worst, horrible and suffering Death ever.


WOOOW Alicia is dead - gratz for Supersayan-Priscilla. She has beaten the one while being in Human Form who Riful could not beat in Awakened Form...

This arrogant Piece of Shit. Oh my GAAAWD is there no one out there who can kill this Whore horribly? -.-

Sry, but this was forced to come out...
What is this Piece of Garbage think she are? Killing the last wonderful Claymore.

She deserves to get her Head ripped of the same Way by someone at last as arrogant as her and than get spits into the Neck.

Priscilla, i hate you, you shitcattle.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by necrosis6

Everyone seems quite touched by Beth crying, but just last chapter we were hearing how the destroyer was remote controlling everyone... So do people have any opinion on what really happened now? If the parasite was in control, Beth wouldn't be crying. So, was Beth taken over or not? It seems to me that she had to awaken in order to not be taken over. Awaken beings seem to be immune to the infection while claymores aren't.

It's clear she did merge with the pole thingy but I think Beth beat the parasite via a soul link with her sister, so Beth was in control. It's unknown if Beth could ever revert back to human form after the merger (especially since Alicia awakened, and now that she's likely dead too so well never know that). Though I admit I could be wrong and The Destroyer could have been controlling them (or at least influencing there thinking) but Alicia's charging off to save her sister and her prolonged attempt to maintain control over her sister does indicate that Alicia wasn't effected... and since Beth didn't attack her too it indicated Beth had beaten the infection by switching roles with her sister.

I can't say to Beth's reasons to fighting Priscilla but Alicia/Beth's comments to the org member about them choosing to take on the other strong power source they just detected in the area of Riful could be a hint of there understanding of there mission. They likely understood there mission to be killing all the AB with AO level powers so the Org would regain control of the island. Yes I know, it's clear they detected The Destroyer and not Priscilla but it does indicate the twins believed that killing all the powerful awakened beings was part of there mission.

None of my take on the issue is really proven by anything but it does have supporting evidence and fits the facts.

Does that help answer your question?

[khryoleoz]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Wow, Priscilla's true strength is pretty earth-shattering, consider she is now handing 2 Abyssal Level opponents their respective asses at once. (Thus tossing the theory that Riful/Lucalea alliance > Priscilla, admittedly, Alicia managed to injure Priscilla due to her vibro-blade arms)

It took this chapter for you to finally discard that theory? Oh ye of little faith. You might as well also accept the other notion many of us assert about Teresa > Priss where potential is =.

[khryoleoz]

Actually, I think this chapter validates one more idea, that Rosemary was indeed an AO level AB. Throughout the whole battle, Priss contained her strength in that human form. It's not unreasonable to think that Teresa, who like Priss is ultimate power suppressed differing only in that her suppression being willfully controlled instead of Priss's being 2nd nature, took care of Rosemary who was every bit as powerful an AB as Riful or Isley or Luciela, but the disparity between strength and power was just so painfully obvious.

I find it amusing that Priss would remark about the twins as failures of the Org. Takes one to know one, is that it?

[Freya]

Teresa does > Priscella. The only reason she got owned was because she got caught by surprise. Doesn't matter if you're at full power. If you're caught off guard you're going to get eviscerated.

[HegemonKhan]

FH translation:

Priscilla:

"So it's both persons' link which keeps the part that's human?"

I presume this to mean:

Alicia:

Holds 50% of human Beth's mind
holds 50% of human Alicia's (her own) mind
Able to release 0-100% yoki. (80-100% released yoki is being Awakened. She losses both of the 50% human minds inside only her)

Beth:

Holds 50% of human Beth's (her own) mind
holds 50% of human Alicia's mind
Able to release 0-100% yoki. (80-100% released yoki is being Awakened. She losses both of the 50% human minds inside only her)

*This understanding of mine has a huge problem.... if you guys/girls can see it too... lol
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Organization's definition of an Abyssal One:

A rank 1 claymore that awakens. An Awakened Being that was a rank 1 Claymore.

Rank 1 claymores that have awakened:

Isley, Riful, Luciela, Rosemary, Priscilla, Rafaela, Beth, Alicia

(interesting... EVERY SINGLE GENERATION AND RANK 1 CLAYMORES HAVE AWAKENED, EXCEPT..... TERESA .....

is Clare-Teresa next to awaken?....)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abyssal Ones keep their same awakened power while in human form.


However, when they use up too much of their yoki or yoma power (not sure if it is yoki or yoma power):

if in their human form, they can no longer go into their awakened form

or

if they are in their awakened form, they can no longer keep their awakened form and change into their human form.

Though, they can still use some of their awakened form's body parts-attacks (if they still have the yoki or yoma power to do so).

Like Riful is still able to use her tentacles, even though she can't go back into her awakened form at the moment, until she recovers.

However, Riful could simply still have a bit of enough energy left to still use her tentacles, but she'll use it up and be unable to even use her tentacles, just like presumably Luciela could no longer do anything against Rafaela.

Luciela (presumably) couldn't even use parts of her awakened body to do attacks, like Riful can.

However, Luciela held her own against Isley pretty well in their battle.

Isley though continued to stay in his awakened form despite being nearly out of yoki or yoma power.


Awakened Beings do NOT keep their awakened power while in human form. All Awakened Beings, even Rigardo and Dauf, have to go into their awakened form in order to have the power to fight.

[Gooral]

Hegemon, that's not FH translation but Weils'. On their site they even wrote it themselves - "translator: Animesuki".

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Priscilla had the potential to surpass Teresa; Rubel claims she unlocked all that potential and became the strongest AB. (...)

Because Rubels "claims it" you consider it as a fact? lol
As long as you will be writing this I will be replying you with this post. Priscilla that killed Noel and Sophia is the same Priscilla we're seeing now. Unless you come up with more solid arguments I'll be laughing hard every time I read your opinion about this.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

Actually, I think this chapter validates one more idea, that Rosemary was indeed an AO level AB. Throughout the whole battle, Priss contained her strength in that human form. It's not unreasonable to think that Teresa, who like Priss is ultimate power suppressed differing only in that her suppression being willfully controlled instead of Priss's being 2nd nature, took care of Rosemary who was every bit as powerful an AB as Riful or Isley or Luciela, but the disparity between strength and power was just so painfully obvious.

I find it amusing that Priss would remark about the twins as failures of the Org. Takes one to know one, is that it?

First off I admit to being in the camp against the idea of Rosemary being an AO... though I have been rethinking my position on this due to this chapter.

So let me state some of my problems with this train of thought... first off how come no one else noticed this vast new power of Rosemary's. Surely even horrible Yoki sensors would have felt that kind of power and who knows how far away a good sensor would have felt it. If even one warrior reported it why didn't anyone from the org go check Rosemary's remains. Did only Rubel get the news?

Next off, if Teresa fully understood how strong she was why didn't she just go out there and kill the 3 Abyssal Ones? I mean... come one... Teresa loved to kill Yoma and stated she had no problem killing an Awakened Beings. Was she that fearful of the org finding out about her true power level? If so, why? Or was she just afraid of awakening herself and worried she might need to if she took on the 3 of them?

Why didn't Rosemary have a special ability like Isley changing his arms shape, Luciella forming mouths anywhere on her body, or Riful a ball of Blades who seems to have no vital point? I mean she just looked like a big awakened being with some claws... she didn't even have expandable limbs... Was she super armored or something? If so... like it did her any good I guess my point being that the Big Three all had something that made them stand out even if one didn't know there power but Rosemary didn't seem to share that characteristic.

I'm still leaning towards the notion that she was as strong as one could possibly get without being an AO... but if anyone wants to convince me otherwise (and the likely many others like me, surly out there) now is the time. I just ask that you don't blow your argument before you begin by not putting any real thought into it and just repeating the same old rhetoric... please tie in what happened this chapter to your argument. I'm asking since I believe in staying one minded but am failing to see that anything has changed.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Because Rubels "claims it" you consider it as a fact? lol
As long as you will be writing this I will be replying you with this post. Priscilla that killed Noel and Sophia is the same Priscilla we're seeing now. Unless you come up with more solid arguments I'll be laughing hard every time I read your opinion about this.

Well... at least you admit your unmovable on this point right off the bat.

Saves me some time and you some listening.

Edit: Uh... I just read that post you linked and uh you made one glaring flaw that i just have to point out. You stated...

Originally Posted by Gooral

She couldn't suppress her aura completely (which could be interpreted as: she had so much youki she couldn't completely erase her presence unlike Priscilla) but at the same time it was only an outer layer of her power and sensing it would give absolutely nothing.

It was never stated that Teresa attempted to suppress her yoki constantly. Only that she never let the yoki rise above 10% for her eyes to change color. So in no way shape or form does that interpret as Teresa having so much yoki that she was unable to suppress it. Only that she had no need to draw on her yoki. In fact no where did anyone mention that Teresa suppresses her yoki constantly either. The only mention of Teresa and yoki suppression was her attempting to hide from the hit squad so that they wouldn't find her. This in fact adds to the argument that Teresa didn't suppress her yoki and was only now attempting to do so.

Minus your Holier Than Thou approach to your argument it was ok... Though I still disagree with what facts you considered important and your conclusion. Oh I forgot to mention... you failed to state how anyone could tell if a AB was using all there yoki and were acting like we could... yet you seemed to be taking the stand that you could prove they weren't. Plus your rhetorical question on what makes us think that Teresa wouldn't gain power if she awakened too was... misleading... the real question is would Teresa have any latent power to be released if she awakened? After all if your going to make a comparison at least compare all the facts since we all know that awakening gives you access to your full abilities... so the question should be would Teresa have any latent powers to unlock upon awakening too since it favors neither Teresa or Priscilla and cuts straight to the real matter at hand... the latent power every last person from that arc mentioned was there. It's only fair to ask if Teresa had any too.

[Alleluia_Cone]

People need to get over Teresa already; Priscilla beat her, decapitated her, end of story. Really, when it comes down to it, that does make her stronger; she was willing to do everything in her power, deception included, to win that fight. Theoretically, if you were to re-do that battle 100 times over, the same thing would happen every time; Teresa would let her guard down, Priscilla would decapitate her. It's in the very nature of both fighters. The wolf always beats the sheep.

As for theoretical power levels, fighting potential, etc. I would not bother analyzing the issue so much because, the way I see it, the writer is continually establishing Priscilla as the strongest force in the story, and really, it's going to get to a point when the argument is going to become nullified on a plausibility scale.

Perhaps if Priscilla decapitates Raciela and Riful at the same time, with her eyes closed, while eating a sandwich, people can get it over it and move on (and really, she is quite capable of doing that).

Finally, I don't get why people take it as so much of an affront to admit she is vastly more powerful than Teresa, since, Priscilla will obviously lose in the end. Even if Clare doesn't become more powerful than her individually, Priscilla will meet her match eventually. So rejoice and wait for that, instead of somehow trying to defend the impossible.

[germanturkey]

Originally Posted by Freya

Teresa does > Priscella. The only reason she got owned was because she got caught by surprise. Doesn't matter if you're at full power. If you're caught off guard you're going to get eviscerated.

while i agree with you, lets not start the argument again.

anyways, i think Teresa did hold back to keep the org from knowing how powerful she was. She never fought using any Yoki and the one time she did, she beat a then 70% Pris. I want to see some fruition of this latent potential in Clare.

[HegemonKhan]

"So let me state some of my problems with this train of thought... first off how come no one else noticed this vast new power of Rosemary's. Surely even horrible Yoki sensors would have felt that kind of power and who knows how far away a good sensor would have felt it. If even one warrior reported it why didn't anyone from the org go check Rosemary's remains. Did only Rubel get the news?

Next off, if Teresa fully understood how strong she was why didn't she just go out there and kill the 3 Abyssal Ones? I mean... come one... Teresa loved to kill Yoma and stated she had no problem killing an Awakened Beings. Was she that fearful of the org finding out about her true power level? If so, why? Or was she just afraid of awakening herself and worried she might need to if she took on the 3 of them?" -Ryus

1. good point, but for all "they" know, that yoki could be or was Teresa's... and not Rosemary's.

this is interesting...

Teresa tells Orsay that she killed Claymore Rosemary and says that her cape was ripped because she fought some yoma on the way back.....

Personally, I don't think Orsay was fooled by that. Since when would yoma ever be able to rip-tear Teresa's cape, lol.

Also, the way he responded seemed to suggest that he wasn't fooled.

This also explains why they wanted Teresa dead. They just realized just how powerful Teresa somewhat really was, killing Abyssal One Rosemary with ease. Teresa, while following orders, certainly wasn't their obedient slave. They feared her, if she went against them, she'd be their greatest threat ever. So, when Teresa killed the bandits, they hoped she would let herself be executed, and she would have, if she didn't have Clare to now live for. Orsay was going to kill Clare after Teresa was executed, and Teresa would have none of that. She decided to live for Clare to protect-save Clare from being killed by Orsay.

With the execution a failure, they were desperate, so they sent their most powerful Claymore (excluding Teresa herself) ever, Priscilla, to kill Teresa with Irene, Sophia, and Noel. Alicia and Beth were still being trained-conditioned, and as we well know now, Priscilla was and is far more powerful then them (Alicia and Beth).

2. Teresa could easily have killed Isley (lol... easily and Isley, haha), the problem is that while she is killing Isley, Riful and Luciela are destroying the Organization. Well, the Organization has no interest in being destroyed.... (They already had a close enough brush with that, when Luciela awakened)

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Ryus

(...)
So let me state some of my problems with this train of thought...

Why no one noticed the power burst? Because Teresa was the eye and/or because every other warrior capable in youki sensing was far away. For example no one besides Galatea could sense Isley even though he went full power. Besides, we don't know what youki is exactly and how it propagates (or does it propagate). Teresa and Rosemary were surrounded by mountains and we don't know whether it dissipated. We also don't know whether it's possible for some claymores to have their youki at bay, for example Teresa at 0% youki could be sensed as Teresa without a doubt from 10 m, while in 10% from 100 m (numbers from a hat) and a weaker claymore that couldn't suppress youki that well could be sensed from 20 m at 0% youki release. As I've written in the post you''ve replied to somehow they couldn't sense Teresa or Priscilla either, at least not accurately. "I'd heard she would surpass Teresa. When she awakened, it was as if her latent abilities were released." Rubel said "I'd heard", the problem with that is they couldn't measure Teresa's and Priscilla's auras accurately in order to do that. I have no idea how did they come up to that conclusion but it was ridiculous. Rubel showed it a while later when he answered Clare's question. He said: "we'd weigh the organization's strength against Priscilla's power and let the chief decide". At that time, when he said that, they didn't even complete Alicia, yet he told Clare they would "weigh the org's strength". If he knew Priscilla's strength they wouldn't even bother to consider defeating her. They would need at least two abyssals for that and they didn't even have one. Which leads us to - they knew shit.
Even if they measured Rosemary's and Teresa's power because they were so far away they would know nothing about their powers like it was in Priscilla's case. Besides, it was easier to sense Priscilla that was much stronger than Abyssal than Abyssal.

I don't think Teresa fully understood how strong she was, that's ridiculous way of thinking Ryus. In order to do that she would have to go full power. I doubt she had a concept of exponential functions and could think that way about her powers. Even if, AFAWK she has never went over 10-29 % (more like 10%) so it's a long way to go to 100%. She also didn't know AO powers, maybe she thought it would be too much of a bother to release 30% of her youki or more just to kill AB that didn't do a thing (at that time all of abyssals were staying low profile and didn't bother anyone). She could have thought that abyssals were much stronger than Rosemary because she was so much weaker than her. How come could she know that she was that much stronger than the rest of them. I mean, it doesn't make sense IMO that there would be a human 10-20 times stronger than me (I don't think there might be someone that can bench press 800-1600 kg/1700-3400lb) so maybe Teresa thought like me . What's more, in case you didn't notice she didn't really give a shit about anything. She didn't have a purpose, she only did what MiB told her to. And because they didn't tell her to go after AO (because they didn't know her power) why would she do that on her own accord? They didn't get in her way and she would have to rebel to kill them (because at the same time she would have other work to do). And why didn't she tell the Org how stron she was? I have various reasons in mind why not and none why would she.

We don't know whether she had special abilities or not. ES1 wasn't to show Rosemary's special abilities but Teresa's awesomness. Besides, Teresa didn't let Rosemary to show off. At first she let her clobber her and later she crushed her suddenly. So at the start Rosemary didn't use her ace because she didn't need to and later on because it was too late.
___

(...) So in no way shape or form does that interpret as Teresa having so much yoki that she was unable to suppress it. Only that she had no need to draw on her yoki. In fact no where did anyone mention that Teresa suppresses her yoki constantly either. The only mention of Teresa and yoki suppression was her attempting to hide from the hit squad so that they wouldn't find her. This in fact adds to the argument that Teresa didn't suppress her yoki and was only now attempting to do so.

That's why I wrote: which could be interpreted as: she had so much youki she couldn't completely erase her presence unlike Priscilla
I'm not saying it does interpret that way but that it may be interpreted that way. Also I never wrote that Teresa constantly suppresses her youki, how did you come up with that? I was saying that the fact she had so much problems with suprressing her youki (when Irene went into town - I thought it was obvious I was referring to that because it was the only time we know she tried to suppress her aura) could be interpreted as Teresa having so much youki she can't fully supress it. That's just my fanboyism and that's why I've used a modal verb (could be interpreted).

you failed to state how anyone could tell if a AB was using all there yoki and were acting like we could

Because we could. If some AB uses all his youki he reverts back to his human form. Easy as that.

Ryus, tell me, how did you come up with this latent powers after awakening? Because this is sth unsupported by facts yet you claim it is a fact that after awakening Priscilla had released her latent powers.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Alleluia_Cone

People need to get over Teresa already; Priscilla beat her, decapitated her, end of story. Really, when it comes down to it, that does make her stronger; she was willing to do everything in her power, deception included, to win that fight. Theoretically, if you were to re-do that battle 100 times over, the same thing would happen every time; Teresa would let her guard down, Priscilla would decapitate her. It's in the very nature of both fighters. The wolf always beats the sheep.

As for theoretical power levels, fighting potential, etc. I would not bother analyzing the issue so much because, the way I see it, the writer is continually establishing Priscilla as the strongest force in the story, and really, it's going to get to a point when the argument is going to become nullified on a plausibility scale.

Perhaps if Priscilla decapitates Raciela and Riful at the same time, with her eyes closed, while eating a sandwich, people can get it over it and move on (and really, she is quite capable of doing that).

Way to cut through all the BS!

Originally Posted by Alleluia_Cone

Finally, I don't get why people take it as so much of an affront to admit she is vastly more powerful than Teresa, since, Priscilla will obviously lose in the end. Even if Clare doesn't become more powerful than her individually, Priscilla will meet her match eventually. So rejoice and wait for that, instead of somehow trying to defend the impossible.

Here's why... We take no pleasure in proving Priscilla is stronger. In fact Teresa is my second Favorite anime/manga character ever... I only care about Clare more (Teresa would have wanted it that way). Priscilla is far down my list... (Raphaela is my #3) Plus I too want Clare to smack Priscilla down too (then shove her sword in Priscilla's mouth ).

So I don't argue for Priscilla's power based on proving she's better that Teresa or nothing... BUT IT'S BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YAGI WROTE! THESE TERESA IS A GODDESS PEOPLE ARE JUST TRYING TO PROVE THERE FANDOM OF A CHARACTER! NOTHING ELSE! (at least most of them... )

Plus when you get down to it... you don't truly love a person (or character) until you accept them for what they are. Not when you only love what you want them to be.

Every last time we argue it they (most of them) end their arguments with something like... well I love Claymore because of my feelings on this... That's not a logical argument but an emotional one . Just admit it so we won't have to continue arguing. Yagi has clearly said something repeatedly... yet they choose to ignore what he's been saying repeatedly since chapter 10. Face the piper guys... your wrong.

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Priscilla had the potential to surpass Teresa; Rubel claims she unlocked all that potential and became the strongest AB.

That's either slander or a bad joke...
surpassing Teresa indeed...

[Ryus]

@Gooral (or anyone wanting to debate Rosemary's power or read a debate on it), I appreciate the gesture of taking me up on the challenge of trying to convince me of Rosemary being an AO but I failed to see any new ideas in your post and you didn't tie in anything from this chapter. In short the way you approached this was the same way you would have months ago and I've debated all this before and formed my opinion based on those debates.

I was hoping you'd find some way to address my concerns with some new ideas and/or stuff from chapter 98. Thanks for giving it a go though .

So, before you begin to read what I wrote in response... please realize I slammed half of what you posted and disagreed with the rest. If you don't want to get into another debate with me then feel free to skip my response. I understand, you know how much of a hard ass I can be on a position. Since I felt nothing had changed based on your response... my response hasn't changed either and we both know each others positions. However if you want to debate back feel free too... though I don't know how busy I'll be in the following days. So I can't guarantee a quick response.

Spoiler for Space:

Originally Posted by Gooral

Why no one noticed the power burst? Because Teresa was the eye and/or because every other warrior capable in youki sensing was far away.

There's no proof she was the organization's eyes... we don't even have proof she could detect aura's from afar.

What proof do you have the others were all far away?

Originally Posted by Gooral

For example no one besides Galatea could sense Isley even though he went full power.

Prove to me one of the other 19 warriors didn't sense it. I'll give you that no one else sensed it that far away but were talking half a continent here. How do you know no one of the 19 unaccounted for warriors wasn't closer.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Besides, we don't know what youki is exactly and how it propagates (or does it propagate). Teresa and Rosemary were surrounded by mountains and we don't know wheter it dissipated.

Need I remind you of Raphaeal finding Irene in the mountains...

... or Irene sensing Clare from the mountains

... Galatea sensing the Fab 4 from the other side of a mountain... or Clare sensing Galatea sensing her from the other side of a mountain... (I admit she had doubt)

To me the sensing in Claymore is all about 4 things...
1) the quality of the sensor / training level / if there distracted or not
2)The range of the sensor
3) The suppressing ability of the one being sensed
4) there distance from the sensor

though a 5th was just introduced

5) An overwhelming object blinding the sensor to all other yoki

In short... it's like beyond visual range radar but is a passive sensor rather than a active one (so I guess it's more akin to sonar ). 1 is the computing power 2 is the strength of the radar 3 is stealth abilities of the target (too close will always be sensed) 4 is just a check to see if the target is in range and 5 is ECM or an EMP.

Originally Posted by Gooral

We also don't know whether it's possible for some claymores to have their youki at bay, for example Teresa at 0% youki could be sensed as Teresa without a doubt from 10 m, while in 10% from 100 m (numbers from a hat) and a weaker claymore that couldn't suppress youki that well could be sensed from 20 m at 0% youki release.

Well besides your pure supposition and arbitrary numbers you bring up a point... but it's clear they tracked Teresa to that village some how.

Spane me that

Originally Posted by Gooral

As I've written in the post you''ve replied to somehow they couldn't sense Teresa or Priscilla either, at least not accurately.

and that proves what exactly... Oh you said something, now go part a sea or something and then maybe I'll listen without thinking for myself.

Originally Posted by Gooral

"I'd heard she would surpass Teresa. When she awakened, it was as if her latent abilities were released." Rubel said "I'd heard", the problem with that is they couldn't measure Teresa's and Priscilla's auras accurately in order to do that. I have no idea how did they come up to that conclusion but it was ridiculous.

Finally, a debatable point. I'll counter with the very point you bring up... What do you think gave the organization the confidence needed to say that when Teresa had never released her Yoki? Do you think these evil geniuses just felt that way... for nothing?

We just haven't seen the whole story of every character. Your reading too much into what we can't possible know... hence it's irrelevance. Authors included needed facts unless that want a big plot twist (and even then there's typically hints). If Yagi reveals this exact point you so cling to as the plot twist of Teresa's domination over Priscilla then I'll personally apologize to you. Until then Yagi hasn't given us cause to use this as the source of Teresa being superior to Priscilla

Originally Posted by Gooral

Rubel showed it a while later when he answered Clare's question. He said: "we'd weigh the organization's strength against Priscilla's power and let the chief decide". At that time, when he said that, they didn't even complete Alicia, yet he told Clare they would "weigh the org's strength".

You fool... That was the first clue Rubel was a spy for the other side.

(I'd love to see the look on your face right now as you realize the truth of that )

Originally Posted by Gooral

If he knew Priscilla's strength they wouldn't even bother to consider defeating her.

Hello... spy who wants them to commit suicide. He tell them it's a great plan.

Originally Posted by Gooral

They would need at least two abyssals for that and they didn't even have one. Which leads us to - they knew shit.

I sticking with that line being the first clue of Rubel being a spy seeking the organizations destruction.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Even if they measured Rosemary's and Teresa's power because they were so far away they would know nothing about their powers like it was in Priscilla's case. Besides, it was easier to sense Priscilla that was much stronger than Abyssal than Abyssal.

They would still know she awakened and send someone to check to see if there was any awakened Rosemary remains...

Originally Posted by Gooral

I don't think Teresa fully understood how strong she was, that's ridiculous way of thinking Ryus.

If Rosemary was as strong as an AO then she would know exactly how strong she was after beating her. After all you believed the was the organization's eyes and would have been trained to realize when she sensed them.

I'll try to ignore your taunt since I seem to have a history of making you mad when we debate this.

Originally Posted by Gooral

In order to do that she would have to go full power.

See above...

Originally Posted by Gooral

I doubt she had a concept of exponential functions and could think that way about her powers.

Sorry you have a doubt... but your doubt amounts to supposition at best.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Even if, AFAWK she has never went over 10-29 % (more like 10%) so it's a long way to go to 100%. She also didn't know AO powers, maybe she thought it would be too much of a bother to release 30% of her youki or more just to kill AB that didn't do a thing (at that time all of abyssals were staying low profile and didn't bother anyone). She could have thought that abyssals were much stronger than Rosemary because she was so much weaker than her.

Not if she's an eye like you claimed she was. They are logically trained to report the movements of the AO. Galatea could tell power levels from a vast distance... same with Tabitha, Cynthia, and Clare. Galatea and Renee both knew who Riful was right off the bat. I don't need to remind you both are confirmed eyes of the organization.

Originally Posted by Gooral

How come could she know that she was that much stronger than the rest of them. I mean, it doesn't make sense IMO that there would be a human 10-20 times stronger than me (I don't think there might be someone that can bench press 800-1600 kg/1700-3400lb) so maybe Teresa thought like me .

I just pretend I didn't take that as a vein comment... Teresa thinking like me ()

Also your logic is kinda off on this point... your stating that Teresa was far stronger then Rosemary (which you claim was at an AO level)... Yet your saying she had doubt because no one could be 10-20 times stronger than her. It's either she could be 10-20 times stronger than me or... maybe I'm not as strong as I think. That is if she doubted she could win...

Originally Posted by Gooral

What's more, in case you didn't notice she didn't really give a shit about anything. She didn't have a purpose, she only did what MiB told her to. And because they didn't tell her to go after AO (because they didn't know her power) why would she do that on her own accord? They didn't get in her way and she would have to rebel to kill them (because at the same time she would have other work to do). And why didn't she tell the Org how stron she was? I have various reasons in mind why not and none why would she.

Finally some logic I can agree with... though it still begs the question if she was such a cold women back then... Why was she fearful of the Orgs wraith? She clearly hated them too... So, Why not do a minor rebellion and kill of some AO's if she could? It's not like she couldn't claim they came to check her out and she just defended herself...

Originally Posted by Gooral

We don't know whether she had special abilities or not. ES1 wasn't to show Rosemary's special abilities but Teresa's awesomness. Besides, Teresa didn't let Rosemary to show off. At first she let her clobber her and later she crushed her suddenly. So at the start Rosemary didn't use her ace because she didn't need to and later on because it was too late.

An AO doesn't need to show off... you can tell there power just by looking. They can do far more then just basic moves.

Originally Posted by Gooral

That's why I wrote: which could be interpreted as: she had so much youki she couldn't completely erase her presence unlike Priscilla
I'm not saying it does interpret that way but that it may be interpreted that way.

I never said you didn't say could... just that I totally disagreed with your hypothesis and that it wasn't feasible. Sorry but you read too much into my comment... however you did base and entire argument on a "could" So I felt free to argue against it.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Also I never wrote that Teresa constantly suppresses her youki, how did you come up with that? I was saying that the fact she had so much problems with suprressing her youki (when Irene went into town - I thought it was obvious I was referring to that because it was the only time we know she tried to suppress her aura) could be interpreted as Teresa having so much youki she can't fully supress it. That's just my fanboyism and that's why I've used a modal verb (could be interpreted).

Duh... I was only commenting on the fact that could comment and trying to prove it was baseless. So let me rephrase for you since you failed to get the connection I was trying to make... You said "she had so much youki she couldn't completely erase her presence unlike Priscilla" I say... what do you base this on? An unstated attempt to mask her yoki over the years. Sorry but that's a baseless theory and should have been left out of your post.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Because we could. If some AB uses all his youki he reverts back to his human form. Easy as that.

No that's after they have spent all there yoki... not when there using it all. You have yet to prove that an AB can use every last ounce of there power when fresh on the battle. There's nothing to indicate they can't fight at 100% yoki for a prolonged period... This isn't DBZ (there's no super energy wave just peak proficiency)

Originally Posted by Gooral

Ryus, tell me, how did you come up with this latent powers after awakening? Because this is sth unsupported by facts.

Are you referring to Yagi writing that Priscilla gained access to all of her latent power upon awakening? or something else? (which I fail to get, since I mentioned nothing else like it... unless you misread me or I had a very bad typo...)

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Ryus

I was hoping you'd find some way to address my concerns with some new ideas and/or stuff from chapter 98. Thanks for giving it a go though .

I'll make it quick this time (or not). You didn't state anything new either when you wrote your concerns so I fail to see the problem here. There isn't much to speculate in chapter 98 either. Chapter 98 destroyed some people's argument (you're one of those people I believe) that Teresa would be too strong if she defeated abyssal one so easily. The rest of your post has nothing to do with the newest chapter.

[Battler-kun]

Priscilla is so damn hot.

Priscilla vs. Raciella ... i wonder.

Powerwise i guess it is Raciella. But Raciella is just like a machine with merely awareness besides killing...

[yezhanquan]

Is Claymore becoming another SJ title? I expected more....

[irvinethearcher]

Originally Posted by clarakiss~

gettin' tired of reading 'only clare could defeat priscilla cuz she's got teresa flesh inside.' even if clare could, she can't do it alone. someone who is also strong has to help her in order for it to happen. prissy's is definitely in another league and it's best for clare to avoid her for the time being. she is not ready to face her now...

If you look at the fusion of the sisters you see that the destroyer is not the sum of the strengt of both, it is far more than that. So if clare would fuse with the flesh of theresa no one can say what will happen. And with rafaella and luciellla yagi introduced the "otherworldly yoki" concept and painted the figures in this realm as he painted theresa in clare's dream. Despite being the eye renee thought first that the yoki of rafaella and luciella was so fragile that she doesn't even dared to touch it. So, such a thing as an otherworldly yoki seems very hard to detect.
Another strange thing was miria's impression when she first stood near clare. IMO if renee could detect raciella's huge power only in a depth scan it is nearly impossible miria could have felt theresa's if only for the glimpse of a second but there was a difference between renee and miria: Miria was already in an half awakened state.
This is something i am thinking all the time too. Why did rafaella reacted to clare's surface scan(chains were moving) and not to renee's in depth scan?
Because clare was an half-awakened? Or because clare knew rafaella from the past?

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Priscilla had the potential to surpass Teresa; Rubel claims she unlocked all that potential and became the strongest AB.

Priscilla's initial encounter with Isley showed she was still unconsciously holding back some of that power even after awakening. (Which was hinted at in the Databooks as well) That is until he caused her to regress to her child-like mind, freeing her from that unconscious block, and we know the result of that.

My Interpretation of the mental block:
Pricilla released all her power when she awakened and then repressed it again. When she fought against theresa she was Over 70% her body indicated that. So her block diddn't count in that fight. After her awakening priscilla began imediately and instinctively to block and suppress her yoki again.
As for rubel:
He didn't even know what theresa did with rosemary. She ripped her arm off with her left arm in claymore form and it is not sure if she even needed to release any yoki to beat rosemary and not only did it to annoy her and tease her. Rubel's commentar is not to be taken seriously because he didn't know theresa's true potential.

Originally Posted by Ryus

There's no proof she was the organization's eyes... we don't even have proof she could detect aura's from afar.

What proof do you have the others were all far away?

Cynthia made a map on which she explained that the island is lik a cross and rabona is in the middle of it. The number one is positioned there. Weaker claymores are in the wings, the strongest are in the middle. We know that clare who had a C+ in Yoki-Sensing wasn't even able to directly identify the yoma in raki's town. And she had to touch the people in the rabona cathedral.