A cruel incident.

[HopelessLover]

Originally Posted by Razer_2mb

Because you can hear a rat screech in pain at that's very heart-wrentching, but if course you would understand that because obviosuly you have no coincience or common sense. Do you know just how sadistic you just sounded supporting animal abuse which is illegal by the way? It's illegal to abuse animals which is a reason on why this is so wrong and evil. Also while you're talking about bugs what about humans? Is it okay to kill a living person in your opinion as if they were bugs or a rat in this case? Probably no, right? So there you have it you insensitive man. A lot of people are probably pissed off at you probably for posting that. Since you think it's okay to torture animals then there should be no problems with humans for you.

Also don't swear so much. It makes you look immature. We're civilized humans, not the Ozbornes. Using too many explisives could get you banned on this forum. There are children around the ages of 10 to 12 reading this, so tone it down a bit or don't post at all. I only used one swear word and I'm well aware of that so don't bother pointing that out.

You have no life do you?

[hooliganj]

I don't get it. If you don't care, why would you post? Oh, wait, trolling. Nevermind.

I suppose the question that could be legitimately raised is that most people don't care about stepping on a bug, so why shold they care about the rat? At what point is an animal complex or evolved enough to merit our sympathies. Does it have to be an anmal that can make a sound? Is it important that the rat can cry out in pain? Why can't I feel sorry for a fish that can't make any noise that I can hear?

Maybe the outpouring is due to the kids, but really, what's the difference between this sort of behavior and your common schoolyard bully? Once again, where is the line? Can you burn an ant with a magnifying glass, but not tear the wings from a moth? Is there some standard that says kids who do this will grow up to be masochistic freaks, while these kids over here will be well-balanced and normal?

xfordained, if you aren't trolling, and really trying to say something, then I have presented your ideas in a more conversational approach. It might even draw some response and start a new discussion. However, when you throw out all of the grammer, the spelling, and most importantly the civility, all you get is an argument. You don't, in fact, get your point across, instead people percieve you as being hostile and rude. If that's not what you want, then cleaning up your grammer and language would be a big step in the right direction.

For my part, I don't know why some animals elicit more sympathy than others. I do believe that no child can be held fully accountable for their actions, but unless you make them take responsibility, they will never learn how to behave. Life is too complicated for there to be a straightforward answer to any of these questions, so all we can do is agree to play nice with each other.

In the words of Jiminy Cricket, "Always let your conscience be your guide."

And, no, I don't have a life. Why do you think I'm on an anime message board? Is that some kind of trick question?

[Sakura-chan]

IMHO, if you think children can't understand that animals are alive, can feel, you are quite wrong. It's just that most of them don't give a damn.
It really disgusts me that I'm around those children who are oh so excited about cutting up cats and mice in their Biology class to see their guts. >_<
And it's really not the media, I was playing some shoot-the-most-people-you-can-and-win game when I was something like 7, I read horror and detective stories since I was 8(not saying anything about fairytales, ever notice how cruel are they sometimes?)... And, wow, I'm not homocidal, suicidal or sadistic.

Originally Posted by xfordained

PLZ PLZ TELL me who the fuck cares about a rat ITS JUST a fuking rat buddy
its like a little above an insect WHY THE FUCK dont u comlain every time a person steps on a fucking bug u fuking shit what does a life mean to u how do u value it just because of u i am going to cut up the rat that got caught in my trap outside or mabey ill just let him die out of stuggling

And humans are just one step above animals, maybe we should kill them off? They cause nothing but trouble, anyway?..

[xfordained]

hooliganj yeah i was trying to be a troll and all i did was wanna start something but i did have some idea that i was trying to say and i think u did a good job of cleaning it up from what i had

as for killing all humans sakura were already heading in that direction so u might not have to wait to long lol

[Sanjuronord]

Originally Posted by Prince of Chronics

It's just the way things are... some people just like that sort of thing... some kids don't really know any better... plus there's a good chance that a lot of kids have become desensitised to violence/cruelty...

Nope, sounds to me like Scrumhalf just resensitised them to violence...of course an act better left for their parents but doesn't sound like they were around...

Obviously you shouldn't have really hurt the kids, doesn't sound like you did. I think at some point, everybody does an act similar to that, whether it be tearing the wings off a bug, cutting a worm in half for fishing, or whatever. Now if you saw them at that tree with a rat ever Friday or something...it's time to bust some heads...or find their parents. I'm sure they'll disapprove of their kids playing with rats regardless of what they're doing with em...

Edit: Actually cops would have been the best alternative, scare the punks a bit w/ some authority. Cops would have probably called in their parents and we'd be sure the kids got their dues...

[p3psi]

kids are filthy, if i saw a rat on the streets i'll hail the nearest taxi to drive me home for a 2 hour shower with the bathroom door locked, and a towel under the door. I wouldnt be cutting up there legs and arms and letting their THE PLAGUE blood get all over me. i bet you they didnt even wash their hands after. stupid kids, dont they have enough to do with their super nintendo games and mountain dew code reds? I blame the rotation of the earth, it spins to slow. if days only lasted say, 6 hours, punk kids like these wouldnt have the time inbetween stealing nickels from their moms purse for comic books, baseball cards and weed; and from dropping out of jr high. I say teenagers alone probally warrants cloneing. I heard they already are practicing this in florida, nothing but clones and clones of geriatrics, and FL's crime rate is pretty low i think; well i guess also because all the crime is being solved by that hummer driveing CSI guy who looks like ron howard. So in conclusion, i think that we should send more finacial help and people to aid in Florida in it's time of need. and contries like frace better pitch in, didnt we saved there butts like, 5 times from world war 0-4? "cheese-eating surender monkies!" sorry if i offened any frenchies, i sometimes forget that this is an international board. I kid I kid cuz i care

[Scrumhalf]

Cheers for all the input.

I managed to get a hold of the clipper kid the following day, & spoke to his parents about the incident and my heavy actions towards their son. They seemed upset obviously because the kid's back was still sore (tissue?).
Apparently no child assault charges were laid towards me. Sheer luck.
Kid was literally p*ssing his pants while we were having a little chat:
"If I ever see you boys doing such attrocious acts like that again - not only I'll chuck your loser mates into a bin & lock it up, but I'll shove that clipper up your scrawny little clacker 'till you squeal like a 5-year old."

Hopefully that prick cops a heavy load from his parents.

PLZ PLZ TELL me who the fuck cares about a rat ITS JUST a fuking rat buddy
its like a little above an insect WHY THE FUCK dont u comlain every time a person steps on a fucking bug u fuking shit what does a life mean to u how do u value it just because of u i am going to cut up the rat that got caught in my trap outside or mabey ill just let him die out of stuggling

You remind me just like the kid.

Also the fact that the kids caught a rat and had barbed wire sounds almost like a premeditated crime. I've never been to Aussie, but in the US you don't usually find barbed wire just laying around.

I live in the south-eastern outskirts of Melbourne; so yes you'll find quite a number of rural barbed wires.

He killed it of course. If I was tied to a tree with barbed wire and had multiple fingers/whatever missing, I would want to be put out of my misery too. I think you did the right thing Scrum. But I would like for those kids to reflect upon what they did. From what I've seen, I think the kids get worse every generation, especially the young teenagers. I'm sickened when I see a 13 year old girl with full make-up walking around like she's a slutty prostitute.

Yes it was a pretty painful experience having to kill a rodent that has been already three-quarter's to death by the sickening multilation. My first instinct was to call up RSPCA or take it to a VET; but the overall gut feeling is that I knew the rat had very minimal chance of survival.
My girlfriend was squealing to the brink of tears on my back when I carried out the final solution. I won't explain how I killed it.

Scrumhalf

[dreamless]

Hmm... it's actually quite normal I think, I mean, I've seen enough of little kids digging open ant nests and pouring down hot waters to watch the ants desperately flee and drown, plucking wings off of dragonflies and feed it its own body, that sort of things happen a lot... I think the kids are just too young to be aware of their cruelty, to them they are just having fun, young kids are illogical and unreasonable, they just show the true nature of human beings, which is quite cruel towards other species. I doubt they even understand the meaning of "heart-wrenching". Also, I'm not sure if torturing a rat is illegal or not, but beating up human kids should be a far more severe crime...

Originally Posted by hooliganj

I don't get it. If you don't care, why would you post? Oh, wait, trolling. Nevermind.

I suppose the question that could be legitimately raised is that most people don't care about stepping on a bug, so why shold they care about the rat? At what point is an animal complex or evolved enough to merit our sympathies. Does it have to be an anmal that can make a sound? Is it important that the rat can cry out in pain? Why can't I feel sorry for a fish that can't make any noise that I can hear?

Maybe the outpouring is due to the kids, but really, what's the difference between this sort of behavior and your common schoolyard bully? Once again, where is the line? Can you burn an ant with a magnifying glass, but not tear the wings from a moth? Is there some standard that says kids who do this will grow up to be masochistic freaks, while these kids over here will be well-balanced and normal?

xfordained, if you aren't trolling, and really trying to say something, then I have presented your ideas in a more conversational approach. It might even draw some response and start a new discussion. However, when you throw out all of the grammer, the spelling, and most importantly the civility, all you get is an argument. You don't, in fact, get your point across, instead people percieve you as being hostile and rude. If that's not what you want, then cleaning up your grammer and language would be a big step in the right direction.

For my part, I don't know why some animals elicit more sympathy than others. I do believe that no child can be held fully accountable for their actions, but unless you make them take responsibility, they will never learn how to behave. Life is too complicated for there to be a straightforward answer to any of these questions, so all we can do is agree to play nice with each other.

In the words of Jiminy Cricket, "Always let your conscience be your guide."

And, no, I don't have a life. Why do you think I'm on an anime message board? Is that some kind of trick question?

wonderfully said. I wonder how many people here really killed a fish or chicken or pig before? I have killed fish and chicken myself, and I'd say if you don't sympathize with a fish because it cannot cry, it's just hypocrisy. a fish can struggle a LOT and show a lot of pain when you cut open its abdomen, plucking out its internal organs, its heart most likely still beating when you take it out, and its gill could still be breathing when you put it into the pot to cook it. And killing a chicken involves first cutting its throat to let its blood flow out, and I heard killing a pig is similar. Why do we need to drain its blood before killing it? because the meat will taste awful if it's full of blood. So yes, we make it quite painful for the chicken in order for its meat to taste good for us... I guess that could also count as torturing for our own enjoyment.

I actually think maybe today's kids could be more insensitive is because of today we are too distanced from the killings. Let the kids visit some slaugher house or see face to face how we kill those animals for food, or maybe let them participate in the killing of the animals for food themselves, let them try to kill a fish or a chicken, and I think they will become more aware of their cruelty. It's because of technological advances that we rarely need to kill animals ourselves, and they mostly just appear as well packaged frozen meat in supermarkets, that makes people nowadays both more insensitive and more hypocritical.

BTW I don't think beating up the kids will help the situation, if not making them more violent and sadistic in the future.

[Grona]

Originally Posted by dreamless

BTW I don't think beating up the kids will help the situation, if not making them more violent and sadistic in the future.

Nah, that garbage unly understands a good scare, then they run home to their momys. Dont think you should of threw him though, a good threat cant be proved but injuries can. "No officer I have no idea what they are talking about"


Mercy is somthing thats in short supply, this whole thing reminded me of a little somthing that happend during a caribou hunt. This man shoots into the herd tyring to get a kill, and gets one. The thing is it was in the middle of a fight and its antlers where locked with another one. The rest of the herd was gone, and he could of just shot the other one too. What does he do?

Risks getting himself impaled on its horns to get it loose and let it go.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by Grona

Mercy is somthing thats in short supply, this whole thing reminded me of a little somthing that happend during a caribou hunt. This man shoots into the herd tyring to get a kill, and gets one. The thing is it was in the middle of a fight and its antlers where locked with another one. The rest of the herd was gone, and he could of just shot the other one too. What does he do?

Risks getting himself impaled on its horns to get it loose and let it go.

Errr... I'm not really sure what do you mean... do you mean killing one deer for entertainment is mercy while killing two is cruelty? Or do you mean that guy can only eat one deer so killing two will be a waste of food? I thought there's something called a refrigerator... Or the conflicting nature of human beings, who can kill others for fun but still be merciful? This is going quite philosophical I guess...

[OutPhase]

Originally Posted by HopelessLover

You have no life do you?

Hmmmm.... I if didn't know any better I would say you are trying to piss me off. Unless you're going to bother at all typing something related to the topic then keep your mouth shut. Others perfer to actually keep this on topic instead of yelling at you for your trolling and trying to insult me at every open opportunity you get. That's just immature.

Unless you're going to debate on the topic or add something useless don't post. You've been really getting on my final nerve. This is your final warning.



Now back on topic:

Originally Posted by hooliganj

I suppose the question that could be legitimately raised is that most people don't care about stepping on a bug, so why shold they care about the rat? At what point is an animal complex or evolved enough to merit our sympathies. Does it have to be an anmal that can make a sound? Is it important that the rat can cry out in pain? Why can't I feel sorry for a fish that can't make any noise that I can hear?

Finally someone that could put it in a better perpective than I could. I fully agree. If you're annoyed by a bug you smack it. If you're hungry you can catch a fish and eat it (well they don't do that much nowadays), but you can hear a rat scream in pain as you kill it unlike that of a bug or fish. You just kill it for the sheer evil joy of it which is just plain sick. Obviously according to those twisted people if it can't scream they shouldn't waste their time torturing it.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by Razer_2mb

Now back on topic:
Finally someone that could put it in a better perpective than I could. I fully agree. If you're annoyed by a bug you smack it. If you're hungry you can catch a fish and eat it (well they don't do that much nowadays), but you can hear a rat scream in pain as you kill it unlike that of a bug or fish. You just kill it for the sheer evil joy of it which is just plain sick. Obviously according to those twisted people if it can't scream they shouldn't waste their time torturing it.

So basically you mean it's better to torture bugs or fish instead of a rat for joy because they can't scream? that logic doesn't sound much better than those kids. So do you mean kids who pluck off dragonfly's wings and multilating it or pouring hot water into ant nests are better than kids who torture a rat? Also for all I know rats are considered pest while dragonflies beneficial insects. I won't hesitate to kill a rat or cockroach to protect my food. And many people keep fish as their pets, they'd be surely very angry if you kill their fish.

[Trax]

Killing pests is one thing (rats in a mousetrap, swatting bugs), torture is another. The first is out of annoyance imo, the second to get some sort of enjoyment out of it. If it's about bugs, most people won't care, in the case of this rat it's probably still borderline for alot of people, but if it's a housecat alot would be outraged. It's hard to tell where to draw the line, but generally speaking I think torturing even an insect can be an indication of a cruel nature.

[Superchop]

Originally Posted by Razer_2mb

Hmmmm.... I if didn't know any better I would say you are trying to piss me off. Unless you're going to bother at all typing something related to the topic then keep your mouth shut. Others perfer to actually keep this on topic instead of yelling at you for your trolling and trying to insult me at every open opportunity you get. That's just immature.

Unless you're going to debate on the topic or add something useless don't post. You've been really getting on my final nerve. This is your final warning.

Ok..and if you want to keep this topic open..or even wish for it to stay open so others can discuss it...they why do you insist on replying to that post...all your doing is helping to start a little flame war which could turn out pretty bad...Now...i can understand that you just want to defend yourself (which i can relate cause i do do that when i feel the need to) but there wasn't much to his post to merit such a response...or even a threat....just ignore him and move on with your life...

and btw...don't say things like "this is your final warning" if there's nothing you can do about it except start a flame war...be more mature about it and just ignore him from now on...

This is one reason i try to avoid threads like this...the treatment/behavioral paterns of kids are one of the few things that some people are overly sensitive about and they always think their method of solving the problem is the correct way...whether it's physical punishment or verbal punishment...

But either way...what the kids did was just plain wrong...torturing any type of animal is wrong no matter how you look at it...

killing them for food is one thing...cause you are fully killing them and not just cutting bits and pieces off and watching them squirm till they die while laughing your ass off...when you kill a chicken you slit their throat...you don't cut off their legs, yank all their feathers, cut off the wings...or anything else until the blood is drained...

[dreamless]

slitting throat and leaving it alive bleeding its blood dry is not exactly a "painless" or "humane" way of killing. it's not like it will become non-edible if you don't let the blood drain first... so it's still some kind of "making the animal suffer more so you can enjoy more" situation I guess...

Anyway I agree it's hard to draw a line, or maybe different people have different "lines" for themselves. There are people thinking that cutting off flowers to decorate your room is plain wrong, there are also people thinking that deer hunting for entertainment is plain wrong, while there are people thinking that their kids plucking wings off of a dragonfly is nothing to worry about...

[ramune]

I think the problem isn't what those kids killed, but it is their intentions and the method of killing that matters. If they kill just because they want to kill and make their victim suffer, then there is definitely something wrong with them.

Let me give you an example: I've seen kids going to the beach, catch a crab, wrap it in newspaper, and set it on fire. Is their action justifiable because we kill crabs for food anyway? The answer is no because both their intention (killing it for fun, not for food) and their method of killing (burning it alive) are wrong.

[Guts]

Originally Posted by dreamless

So basically you mean it's better to torture bugs or fish instead of a rat for joy because they can't scream? that logic doesn't sound much better than those kids. So do you mean kids who pluck off dragonfly's wings and multilating it or pouring hot water into ant nests are better than kids who torture a rat? Also for all I know rats are considered pest while dragonflies beneficial insects. I won't hesitate to kill a rat or cockroach to protect my food. And many people keep fish as their pets, they'd be surely very angry if you kill their fish.

Pulling weeds, pulling weeds.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by ramune

their method of killing (burning it alive) are wrong.

Hmm... may I ask how do you cook crabs? don't tell me you only cook dead crabs I think the common way of cooking crabs is to steam them alive... there's nothing wrong in buying living crabs and putting them into steam pots alive and turn on the fire I think, and I don't really think steaming them alive is any better than burning them alive... well, actually a lot of the restaurants also serve roasted crabs which are roasted/burned alive... even the frozen crabs you bought in supermarket are also frozen alive... hmm... being burned to death alive or being frozen to death alive... I also can't think of any "humane" way of killing crabs... do you do lethal injections to them first or something?

[ramune]

Originally Posted by dreamless

Hmm... may I ask how do you cook crabs? don't tell me you only cook dead crabs I think the common way of cooking crabs is to steam them alive... there's nothing wrong in buying living crabs and putting them into steam pots alive and turn on the fire I think, and I don't really think steaming them alive is any better than burning them alive... well, actually a lot of the restaurants also serve roasted crabs which are roasted/burned alive... even the frozen crabs you bought in supermarket are also frozen alive... hmm... being burned to death alive or being frozen to death alive... I also can't think of any "humane" way of killing crabs... do you do lethal injections to them first or something?

Haha that might be true but we usually kill it right before we cook it. We don't just throw it in water alive.

[Baba]

As was said before the problem is not a problem of method or if we do or do not do similar acts as part of our food chain. The problem is that this was killing and torture for fun, and for the pleasure of seeing another living being suffer (and being able to control it's sufferng).
I don't know about you, but I don't get a kick out of cooking a crab or gutting a fish, nor is it my purpose in doing so. That's what makes a difference.



(beside, crab don't have nerves, so they don't feel anything thus, cooking them alive or just killing them is much the same to the crab....)