[Manga] Chapter 230 Discussion

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Genei Killua

Just to be flippant, Naruto touched Sasuke many times via Sasuke's fist.

lol okey you're right on this one

Naruto's mission is not to kill Sasuke, it's to capture and retrieve him back to Konoha, alive. In this regard, you could say he would hold nothing back. If you mean Naruto would never hold anything back ever, well, that's just a stupid. Naruto would obviously hold back if not holding back means killing his friends. Naruto was saddened and enraged precisely because of the fact that Sasuke was holding nothing back.

I didn't say he would never hold back ever, how can I know?
Naruto can change a bit afterall, but in this precise case he's obviously not holding anything and that wouldn't change much if he did : holding back would change the outcome if the fight was more or less a draw but right now (the 'right now' is important given how their strength evolve lately) it's completely one sided.
Naruto just can't keep up (yet anyways) with the ability of the Sharingan to predict his moves.

Well, it is relevant to the discussion of whether or not Naruto was holding back. And it's also relevant to the discussion of whether the rasengan or the chidori is stronger.

Like I said not at all if Naruto can't touch Sasuke which is the case now.
Besides the whole 'Naruto lessened the Rasengan' doesn't really come from the manga but from you want to, neither Sasuke or Naruto made any remark about the Rasengan being lessened and it would have been the case if it was true.

There is no doubt that the Rasengan is a better jutsu than the Chidori but to collide each others is simply useless.

If Naruto were to kagebunshin, which in his enraged state he's been too stupid to try, he could easily 'touch' Sasuke with his incredible speed that's perhaps 3-5 times greater than Sasuke's. From there, it wouldn't be too hard to rasengan him.
[...]
Also, I don't know why Naruto stopped 'screaming' chakra at Sasuke. It seemed pretty useful, and certainly if Naruto kage bunshined a huge amount, it would protect them from being destroyed by any fire jutsu from Sasuke.

That's true if this kind of 'chakra scream' could be done by the clones then Naruto is really an idiot but then that how he is and must be taken in count when you analyze Naruto's strength.

If Naruto was smart all the time he would be incredibly stronger but the thing that he isn't

I don't think so. He fought that fight poorly, and his loss had little to do with his eyes. The only jutsu he had which could hurt Gaara was the chidori, and he used it, and it only temporarily hurt Gaara. I don't see his sharingan helping him out too much there. Besides, even if Sasuke was dodging his attacks so much the easier, Gaara would have been encouraged to boost his abilities even sooner than before. And surely Sasuke would never have been able to defeat each new installment of Shukaku.

Gaara was unable to move during age after the first blow of the Chidori, in a 1 vs. 1 fight Sasuke would have had all the time he wanted to kill him.
And against Gaara half transformed (once again the Gaara of the Chuunin exam), Sasuke with the cursed seal can be now way much faster and aim to Gaara's head way more easily rather than being only able to barely touch him.

Against a full Shukaku indeed there is no discussion, they just aren't in the same weight class ^^

Perhaps, but that's not proven. I think he would fight Sasuke. He has acknowledged Naruto as his subordinate, and will generally do as he's asked to. In fact, he didn't even want to fight Shukaku because he thought it would be too much of a hassle. Besides, Sasuke isn't just a brat, he's a traitor to Konoha.

I think you missed the 'subordinate' stuff.
Naruto is the subordinate, not Gamabunta.
If Naruto start to order Gamabunta around especially to beat a 13 years old guy because he's not strong enough to do that himself I'm [/b]really[/b] not sure that Gamabunta would do it.

As to kage bunshining a summon, I think it would certainly be possible. It would probably require a lot of chakra, though, and probably wouldn't really be worth it.

Well wasting chakra is like a tradmark of Naruto, it's just that the image of an army of Naruto riding countless frog was funny

[yinstro]

Originally Posted by Genei Killua

Just to be flippant, Naruto touched Sasuke many times via Sasuke's fist.



Naruto's mission is not to kill Sasuke, it's to capture and retrieve him back to Konoha, alive. In this regard, you could say he would hold nothing back. If you mean Naruto would never hold anything back ever, well, that's just a stupid. Naruto would obviously hold back if not holding back means killing his friends. Naruto was saddened and enraged precisely because of the fact that Sasuke was holding nothing back.



Well, it is relevant to the discussion of whether or not Naruto was holding back. And it's also relevant to the discussion of whether the rasengan or the chidori is stronger.

If Naruto were to kagebunshin, which in his enraged state he's been too stupid to try, he could easily 'touch' Sasuke with his incredible speed that's perhaps 3-5 times greater than Sasuke's. From there, it wouldn't be too hard to rasengan him.



I don't think so. He fought that fight poorly, and his loss had little to do with his eyes. The only jutsu he had which could hurt Gaara was the chidori, and he used it, and it only temporarily hurt Gaara. I don't see his sharingan helping him out too much there. Besides, even if Sasuke was dodging his attacks so much the easier, Gaara would have been encouraged to boost his abilities even sooner than before. And surely Sasuke would never have been able to defeat each new installment of Shukaku.



Perhaps, but that's not proven. I think he would fight Sasuke. He has acknowledged Naruto as his subordinate, and will generally do as he's asked to. In fact, he didn't even want to fight Shukaku because he thought it would be too much of a hassle. Besides, Sasuke isn't just a brat, he's a traitor to Konoha.

I do agree, though, that a summon right below Gamabunta might be better for Naruto because he wouldn't have to go through the hassle of convincing Gama.

As to kage bunshining a summon, I think it would certainly be possible. It would probably require a lot of chakra, though, and probably wouldn't really be worth it.

Also, I don't know why Naruto stopped 'screaming' chakra at Sasuke. It seemed pretty useful, and certainly if Naruto kage bunshined a huge amount, it would protect them from being destroyed by any fire jutsu from Sasuke.

as to the last part, naruto;
A doesnt seem to have control of what hes doing
B seems like the chakra flow dies down somewhat after its initial flare, he used to have chakra the size of the waterfall in the shape of kyuubi, by the time he was at the end of tthis chapter he seemed to have little to none

[Procrastinator_CA]

It has been interesting to read your discussion on Shukaku vs Sasuke. This makes me wonder then what would happen in the very unlikely case that Gaara would come across the fight with Sasuke fighting against a full-sized, unsealed Kyuubi.

What would Gaara do?

a) RUN!!!
b) fight Sasuke as ordinary Gaara
c) fight Kyuubi as Shukaku
d) watch the Sasuke vs Kyuubi fight (more like a chase) while eating popcorn
e) other opinions



__________________________________________________ ________


Sasuke: No fair! I want a monster too!!!

[chibi Jiraiya plushy]

If Narutos has been possessed by the Kyubi (meaning he's not in the right state of mind) then Sasuke has a major ass kicking coming. If Naruto is feral kiyubi then he just might come pretty close to killing ( or at least knocking out) Sasuke and then either Kakashi or one of Kakashi's dog's will show up and Naruto will attack them and Kakashi will manage to knock out Naruto or at least strengthen the seal on the kiyubi. Or else the Konohagakure village will have hell of a violent blonde boy on their hands... That would be TOO COOL! If naruto did show up in the village all feral. It won't happen though cause then the whole village would hate him yet again. TT_TT

[Lazy Shadow]

I Think You're Getting Off Topic
But, More Relavent To This Chapter, Mr.Uzumaki & Mr.Uchiha (I Dont Know why I Reffered To Them Like That) Have Both Had "Awekinings" Of Their New Power, And Thus, When Sasuke Got His 3 Dot Sharingan His Power Was Greater Than Naruto's, But Since Naruto Got That Water Around Him In The Demon Fox Shape It Would Be Like Sasuke Never Getting The Third Dot, And Until Sasuke Uses Cursed Seal Lvl 2 He Will Learn The Meaning Of Pain, Via Naruto's Fist/Claw/Whatever. <--- It Would Hurt More Than That :P

Crap. U Posted Right B4 I Did, The I'm With Stupid Is Intended For The Person Above U :P

[gaheris]

In terms of control because of Sasuke's eye he has the edge but in terms of Power Naruto has him beat. I know that Last of the Uchiha has said that Sasuke should be able to perform the Rasengan because he has seen it a couple times but until I see Sasuke perform it I will have to disagree. Since it is a high level jutsu it seems to be that it would require more than just sasuke seeing it for him to be able to master it especially since it doesn't require any seals. I can't wait to see where it goes from here.

[Kagegitsune]

Amazing the power of the Sharingan. It's evolved into the full blown version, and the power it possesses rivals that of the first Kyuubi stage. Perhaps Sasuke is closer to his brother than he thinks. . .
On the other hand, if it took the whole village of Konoha and the sacrifice of the fourth to contain the Kyuubi, then does Sasuke alone really stand a chance? The suspense has me on the edge of my seat, and i can't wait for the conclusion.

Being a Hyuuga fan though, I'm wondering if Neji's Byakugan is going to evolve any further than its current state. I understand Kishimoto's favorite character is Sasuke, but he really needs to work more on the Hyuuga family. . . .

[Rurik]

I really dont think that sharingan can copy the rasengan, because rasengan is a ball of chakkra that requieres the user to go to a degree of control and Power, and you have to go to certain steps "trial and Error" to master it, the Sharingan is a very awesome heritage, but there just some thing that the Sharingan will not copy, just like Bloodline Abilities and Summonin Techs!

btw, if sharingan can copy a tech like Rasengan, why did Kakashi help out sasuke with the speed in order to perform the Chidori, instead on telling sasuke..."Sasuke copy this move!"

[Dez]

I really don't think Naruto could summon Gamabunta in this situation. If he did it would probably go something like this:

Spoiler for Storytime:

It was the same monster Naruto had brought forth to fight Gaara of the Sand, a towering amphibian no pond in the Fire Country could possibly suit. It's mighty webbed hands were larger than Sasuke's ancestral home, with both legs firmly planted at the base of the mountain it's massive head nearly reached the top of the Hokage monument. The pipe protruding from it's horrendous mouth was larger than the smoke stacks at the dump where Konoha burned it's waste and obsolete training scrolls.

Sasuke knew there was only one word that could possibly suit his current predicament, "Fuck!"

Fuck, indeed, for at that very moment a fierce rumbling tore through the air, the vibrations causing the lake beneath him to ripple and wave, the wind ripping the leaves from the nearby trees, the ground shook and quaked.

Was this an attack?

Was it already over?

Was he going to die?

No.

Slowly the last true Uchiha's mind began to turn, his tactical genius informing him of the nature of the anomaly.

It was laughing.

The moral for today is: Don't summon Godzilla to step on a bug. It would upset Shino. Oh, and I doubt that Gamabunta would see Sasuke as a threat worthy of his attention.

[Kakashi-nindogs]

yea he probably wouldnt care

[Genei Killua]

Oops, um, wrong thread. I'll get back to this post to make something of it.

[snarl]

What if gama's ass just sat on Sasuke when he was summoned... no need to ask him to fight, just sit

To me Naruto seems too powered up to just hurt Sasuke.. and Sasuke just wants to kill him so i think someone has to interfere or one of them will get killed

[Asmedaus]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, I only recently read the chapter and it jumped out at me when I did.

It seems that Sasuke's "Awakening" is not only his fully developed sharingan eyes, but also his psyche being very close to that of Itachi. Itachi, we are lead to believe, killed the whole clan to test himself. Sasuke believes that true strength comes from being alone and therefore he will shatter the bond he and Naruto have in order to obtain this "strength". The ironic thing is that the reason he wants the strength is to avenage his family, yet he needs to kill his current "family" in order to accomplish said goal.

Maybe, Naruto instead of actually beating Sasuke physically, will be able to show Sasuke that the path he has chosen leads to being just like the one person Sasuke hates the most, Itachi. Sasuke could have multiple reactions, the one that I would like is for Sasuke to finally understand his brother. Even though this would be an anti-climactic way of settling things, since we have two camps right now and each wants to know who is the most "powerful". Yet, I think it would be less DBZish in nature and more Narutoish...

I don't mean to say that DBZ is bad, just that it's different than Naruto in that Naruto explores a bit more psychological aspects of Anime characters.

[socomberetta]

Originally Posted by Asmedaus

I don't know if this has been mentioned, I only recently read the chapter and it jumped out at me when I did.

It seems that Sasuke's "Awakening" is not only his fully developed sharingan eyes, but also his psyche being very close to that of Itachi. Itachi, we are lead to believe, killed the whole clan to test himself. Sasuke believes that true strength comes from being alone and therefore he will shatter the bond he and Naruto have in order to obtain this "strength". The ironic thing is that the reason he wants the strength is to avenage his family, yet he needs to kill his current "family" in order to accomplish said goal.

Maybe, Naruto instead of actually beating Sasuke physically, will be able to show Sasuke that the path he has chosen leads to being just like the one person Sasuke hates the most, Itachi. Sasuke could have multiple reactions, the one that I would like is for Sasuke to finally understand his brother. Even though this would be an anti-climactic way of settling things, since we have two camps right now and each wants to know who is the most "powerful". Yet, I think it would be less DBZish in nature and more Narutoish...

I don't mean to say that DBZ is bad, just that it's different than Naruto in that Naruto explores a bit more psychological aspects of Anime characters.

I think Sasuke had his 'awakening' a couple of chapters ago.

The awakening in this chapter is most likely the new level of interaction between Kyuubi and Naruto.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by Dez

Oh, and I doubt that Gamabunta would see Sasuke as a threat worthy of his attention.

you never know. If naruto told gamabunta the reason oro wants sasuke, then even if he doesn't consider sasuke himself as worth his time, gamabunta might consider stopping oro from getting the sharingan as being worth it. However, I doubt naruto would even consider it in a fight like this.

[wb_hicks]

naruto already tried to reason wiht sasuke and it got him a whole through the chest. he even tried after he gave sasuke a beat down in chptr 229, but like sasuke said talking is over. so naruto has to beat it into him. a good side of it is they are pushing each other to whole new lvls. i know its been said that naruto should use some jutsus but maybe the reason he not because he should have a good bit of knowledge about the sharingan given his best friend and teacher has them. that could explain why when he does do his jutsu its from a good distance or from a weird postion. when i reread the fright from the beginning its like naruto is trying to fight around his sharingan. hopefully he will be able to like kido did and find a weakness in the sharingan like the byukagan. (kinda doubtfull but it could happen)

another note is that with this level that naruto has reach how would his match with kimi would of went if it would of continued if he wasnt distracted by sasuke coming out of the barrel

[p3psi]

Hmm, is naruto's form at the end super sayian 1 or 2?
Sasuke: "wow, i can see 1 move ahead now!"
naruto:"roar! or bark, whatever sounds foxes make tte ba yo"
sasuke" to bad i can see 1 move ahead, cuz that move is naruto sticking his fist thru my face"

[wilecoyot]

hm didnt read every page here cause there are too many
like people agree ...this building up is taking forever and looks like DB or DBZ...
but will just have to wait and see what happens...
I am more concerned about one thing Nine-Tails said: It siad that Naruto is like the Fourth...ok so does that mean the Fourth hid his Jutsu inside Naruto and he will be able to use it or is Naruto an instant genius of the situation and become stronger and cleaver is danger enviroment is rising up or what?? Or can Nine Tails do Sharingan too ) that would be fun hehehe...since is one of the powerful deamons...wouldnt be suprised if it had one or two cards in it sleave.

[socomberetta]

Originally Posted by wilecoyot

I am more concerned about one thing Nine-Tails said: It siad that Naruto is like the Fourth...ok so does that mean the Fourth hid his Jutsu inside Naruto and he will be able to use it or is Naruto an instant genius of the situation and become stronger and cleaver is danger enviroment is rising up or what??

The Fourth must have left the impression of a stubborn, never give up attitude on the Kyuubi during their battle 13 years ago and he's equating that to Naruto's by saying theyre alike.

Or can Nine Tails do Sharingan too ) that would be fun hehehe...since is one of the powerful deamons...wouldnt be suprised if it had one or two cards in it sleave.

Kyubi isnt an Uchiha so he cant have the Sharingan. But, and Im just throwing this out, maybe the Kyuubi's eyes have an ability that closely resembles that of a sharingan and will impart that with Naruto later on in the manga.

[CyberPunk]

if naruto gets any abilities similar to the sharingan, that'll be cheesy as fuck.