2015-05-11, 08:30 | Link #101 | ||
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If we're going complete history, then it was said countless times that the Senju and Uchiha were the strongest clans. And if we're going by prestige or royalty, I'd give it to the Hyuuga simply because of Kaguya's Byakugan. |
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2015-05-11, 08:39 | Link #102 | |
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lol yeah kinda what I already was stating before...you can discuss whose the strongest or are they equal or not but at the end of the day if your clan doesn't survive and you're reduced to a handful or even just a single member, kinda can't argue the point anymore, the world of ninjas is hand in hand with Darwinism, only the strong can survive and while you may argue the point that it was stated so and so was the strongest of all clans of all times...it matters not if they aren't around anymore right? While you can say well this clan only earned its strongest title by default...sadly that's how history shows tells it (I myself am a fan of reading Sengoku history) ALOT of clans earn the strongest title only to lose it all due to bad fortune such as the leader dying at a bad time and their successor sucked, it happens
And "sloppy writing" or not, it got Kishimoto 700 chapters, and a chance to write this mini series not to mention earn a long running anime series and spin offs...are we really in the position to judge his intentions or not? If so why are people still reading? Lol i say this in jest so don't take me seriously here Oh and lets not forget said Genin Naruto Sexy No Jutsu'ed said Hokage, got past him and stole a "Forbidden Scroll" these things CAN happen lol Quote:
And remove the clan system? Um where are you getting this idea? Clans are ultimately like divisions in a military you don't remove them, especially more so since most clans are families and relations to each other, even clan members intermarry they'll just sort out where the children go based on their abilities, there is no reason to remove clans as a whole cause I am sure this is not the first time clans have intermarriage
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Last edited by Avalon64; 2015-05-11 at 09:02. |
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2015-05-11, 10:25 | Link #103 | |||
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if that is your criteria then the strongest clans are Uchiha and Namikaze/Uzumaki since both Sasuke and Naruto can wipe out entire clans just on their own.
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2015-05-11, 10:33 | Link #104 | |
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Slaves? Seriously? Dude man, the Branch is the lesser house yes its a flawed system but it is NOT slavery, slavery would be beating them down, not letting have the right to talk, etc...the Hyuuga are jerks because of tradition no question but they are not "oppressive" as you are putting them simple they belong to the clans of whomever they want them to belong to (I am NOT listing them out just for you)...but your point was the extreme the removal of clans altogether and I am saying that is simply not going to happen, a clan is still a family...so does my family end just because my daughter decides to marry another person's family? no it does not...this is simply history speaking
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2015-05-11, 10:39 | Link #105 | |||
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2015-05-11, 10:42 | Link #106 | ||
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2015-05-11, 10:45 | Link #107 | ||
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There was great resentment because of the Branch house system but it is not slavery...ALOT of clans had servant classes amoung their clans, its nothing different from history, and coming at the Main Branch members with a "killer's aura" was the shown times they ever deploy the Caged Bird, you're making them sound like the Main Branch will do it if they spill milk or something... and no I am NOT listing them out because I don't want to waste my time, clans have intermarriage it happens quite ALOT more then you think...clans are still a family so the children will belong to the clans their personal ability most resemble...so no, they are not removing clans and there is nothing to state that they are except what you are imagining Quote:
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Last edited by Avalon64; 2015-05-11 at 11:12. |
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2015-05-11, 11:27 | Link #108 | |
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Can you explain how this practice is not oppressive? |
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2015-05-11, 11:34 | Link #109 | |
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of course they could probably do away with the Bird Seal and work relations amoung the family better, recognize talent can come form both families, things like that but my problem was the choice of word "oppressive", they are assholes sure but they are not true tyrants, afterall you can criticize what they are doing the fact they still remain strong and Hiashi as much as I rag on him saw it was pointless to sacrifice his brother in a false appeasement (servant or not, REAL oppressors wouldn't care about the cannon fodder family or not) , true oppression would be that the Hyuuga would never see the need to change but yes I do admit it required the lesson of Part 1 Naruto to point out that what you're doing? REALLY causing tensions between both families and they were trying to change a little
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Last edited by Avalon64; 2015-05-11 at 12:09. |
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2015-05-11, 12:06 | Link #110 | |||||
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I do hope Naruto does something politically to quickly end the oppression of the Hyuuga, but my point is that in a couple generations it won't matter since there will be so much inter-marriage between clans. |
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2015-05-11, 12:24 | Link #111 | |
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Like I said I didn't want to write it out for you, cause you're probably not even going to take me seriously or find a way to throw it back at me saying I'm wrong no matter how I say it, but fine Shikadai the Naru, Chou Chou the Akimeichi, Inoichi the Yamanaka cause I don't think Sai has a family...they stated numerous time Boruto is the Hyuuga's prodigy and so on so forth, what you are stating is impossible they'll never intermarry that many times to remove clan...cause we don't see them but a whole clan means there's alot of DIFFERENT people, and because clans are family and they will always be different clans Yes no matter how many times you throw it in my face I will not call it slavery, its wrong, its flawed yes, but slavery would indicate the Main Branch members would use that curse seal at a drop of a hat to punish the Branch members, like I said a grown man inflicting a KILLING aura at a KID just for being a heiress I don't consider that a minor offense, but perhaps that can change given events after the war and hopefully with Hinata being the head Hashirama Senju and Mito Uzumaki...there intermarriage, telling you it happens, and from Minato and Kushina, Naruto had alot of Kushina's blood hence he could host Kurama, that's basically what I meant...if the kid has the ability of the parents clan then they'll fit in that clan I don't see how you can say just because they are marrying outside of their clans suddenly that aspect of different clans with different abilities will ever change, bloodlines are removed because usually clans are actively hunted and killed not because of intermarriage cause for THAT to work then the next breed of kids must be born completely normal with no powers, cause if they have ANY power of their parent, they will keep the bloodline going
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Last edited by Avalon64; 2015-05-11 at 12:34. |
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2015-05-11, 12:30 | Link #112 | |
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That been said, after 700+ chapters of sloppy writing, I do think it's kinda meaningless to complain now. Let's just take things as they come.
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2015-05-11, 12:35 | Link #113 | |
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Naruto's popularity decreased a lot in Japan in the last 5 years, as well as on the internet. And I am certain that the people who remained as fans are those who have been following this series for a long time. |
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2015-05-11, 12:40 | Link #114 | |
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2015-05-11, 12:41 | Link #115 |
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@Avalon64
Agree to disagree on what a slave is I guess... keep in mind your original point was that the Hyuuga aren't even oppressive. I'm not saying everyone will inter-marry into one clan. It would be one village. What happens in the next generation when a Hyuuga/Uzumaki/Namikaze marries an Akamichi/whatever or whatever 4-6 clan hybrid ninjas are born next? When does the line blur enough for you? I'm not saying the clans are gone right now. I'm saying that it will happen within a couple generations. Clans come and go all the time. It all started from one person anyway so it's not like they always existed. Something that hasn't always been there can just as easily be gone one day. If you take a step back and look at the unification theme of the manga you will see my point. It's evident in the villages all wearing the same headband during the war. Forming and keeping clans is the opposite of that ideology. |
2015-05-11, 12:49 | Link #116 |
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Yes as I said true oppression is when you tell yourself, yes we have this system and we're hated for it but lets not change it...recognizing there is a problem and trying to do something different is not oppression yes it required a trigger to get the ball rolling but I have not been presented that the Main Branch has abused the system yes they made use of it and some Branch members hate their position for it but see the way I see it you can't have a WHOLE family of people hating the system otherwise eventually there would have been rebellion, which to me tells me there were members who were ready to lay down their lives for the good of Konoha
Like I said it was never once presented in the story proper that marrying other clans presented the problem of clan extinction only when people FEARED the clan enough to hunt them down I am certain clans have measures to ensure their family and skills will live on like I said the true problem will only come when kids start being born with no powers of ninjitsu whatsoever And yes I am aware of the fact they come from the same village it is not going to change the need for a ninja's individual skill, there will be times sending a bug user will be useful or needing a soul telepath to read minds, or a shadow user to mimic the enemy, the reason they are so unified is because the different clans pool their unique talents to keep Konoha alive and well
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Last edited by Avalon64; 2015-05-11 at 13:10. |
2015-05-11, 12:53 | Link #117 | |
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Because I'm want to see the world burn: The last canon thing about the Senju was their domination over Konoha and how the once proud Uchiha became their lap dog. Now the Hyuuga became the new Uchiha in Konoha. Does this mean they are the new Senju's lap dogs? *runs away* |
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2015-05-11, 13:48 | Link #118 | |
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Y'now when it comes to the debate on the power of each clan, i feel like none of this was helped by Kishi's narrative writing. I mean in the beginning in seemed like the Uchiha and the Hyuuga were the top 2 clans in the village because of their history and prominance... but then out of nowhere late into part 2, kishi introduces the Senju clan which was apparently the equal of the uchiha clan and placed a HEAVY focus on those two despite the complete lack of ninjas carrying on the Senju name. And then we got the uzumaki clan tacked on later... But the focus remained heavily on the Senju and the uchiha; not only were they paraded around as the most important founding members of kohona, but the entire narrative seemed revolved around the legacy of those two clans.
Really if kishi wanted all these clans to be equally important he should have found time for them. Heck, He could have easily played up the on the importance of the Hyuuga clan by simply adding Hinata to the story and making her an important part of the narrative; it wouldn't have been hard to do considering Kaguya had the Byakugan, and Naruto's team was constantly in need of extra team members, a hole which hinata could of filled... it would have also given Hinata and naruto enough panel time together for their ship to actually work well, instead of being tacked on at the very end as an after thought. Quote:
Interestingly enough, when you look at it, with most of the pairings, there is no conflict over clans. Most of those who are part of a clan either married someone with no surname (temari, Karui, and sai) or someone whose family isn't really a clan like Sakura. This could be kishi's way of trying to preserve the clan structure However, i'm not sure Kishi actually cares or put that much thought into it... Naruto and Hinata for instance should have caused some conflict. For a clan system to remain, Naruto would either have to give up his uzimaki name, or Hinata would have to give up her hyuuga name. Can't really have both; one must leave their family clan to join the other clan... i bring this up because in Book of Thunder(the side story about Kiba and his dog), its mentioned that Hinata is indeed heiress to the Hyuuga clan. This does not make much sense as it causes all kinds of clan confusion. Is Boruto an uzumaki or a hyuuga? If Hinata kept her place as heiress of the clan, would that make Boruto UZUMAKI the next heir of the HYUUGA clan? If Kishi wants Naruto to keep his Uzumaki clan alive AND wants Hinata to be the hyuga heiress then he really is ignoring all the family clan politics involved... Really it would be simpler if he had Hinata marry into the uzumaki's and just have Hanabi take the heiress title.
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Last edited by Slayerx; 2015-05-11 at 15:29. |
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2015-05-11, 14:08 | Link #119 | |
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Anyway knowing Naruto I don't think he'd mind too much about Bolt using the Hyuuga name, afterall he married Hinata, he has the utmost respect for Neiji the one who gave his life to ensure their union, yeah I don't he'd mind if there is any problems I am sure it can be all worked out...you know unless the Hyuuga did something stupid and MADE it a problem for Naruto somehow lol while I can see the fact keeping Hanabi the Heiress would seamlessly iron out political problems...from a narrative standpoint its kinda unfair to Hinata, she worked so hard gave up so much, won the man she loved and while that is good enough for some of her fans...I think the majority of her fans wish to see her story come full circle and reclaim her Birthright again and show that she worked for it all...not to mention Hanabi only seemed to be there to pose the initial problem for Hinata the whole lost her birthright to her younger sister, given she NEVER appeared again in canon in the manga until the Last movie seems that every sign was pointing that Hinata would by the Heiress to the Clan as being her conclusion, the fact Boruto is that successor only adds to that Heh I feel Boruto is destined for greatness...lol
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Last edited by Avalon64; 2015-05-11 at 14:21. |
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2015-05-11, 15:51 | Link #120 | |
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Like you said though, the writing did get sloppy so it's kind of hard to follow exactly what the clan structures are since I don't think Kishi even knows. Especially when it comes to the Senju. That clan history is just a mess. |
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