(L+CR) Hibike! Euphonium [anime]

[Arya]

I also wouldn't count her ability to tell how bad the band was as an evidence.
Generally I'd add that probably it's far harder to get how good is an euphonium or tube musician in respect of say a trumpet player, due to how different the instruments are, and so their roles, and so the kind of scores they are suited to play. This could work as factor that could work in downplaying Kumiko's level.
Together with the whole quest about let's find motivations-to-play-bass instruments (if it is the correct name), that somehow diminished the whole perception over the instrument(s) and so the attitude of their players.
In fact I still don't see nor feel Kumiko being inspired or that good, what I'm getting, until now, is or would be that she is that good despite her attitude.

[FredFriendly]

Originally Posted by larethian

... I won't consider 'ability to pick out Kitauji being bad' as a supporting evidence of how good Kumiko is, as they supposedly suck real bad and were totally out of sync...

I would add to that that being able to listen to an orchestra (or band) and determine if they are playing well or not has nothing to do with how well one can play an instrument. Of the members of the audience at any concert, some, if not most, have never played and instrument before, but are able to tell whether or not, as a whole, the performance was good or bad. Having a good ear for music doesn't mean that you can carry a tune.

As to having the experience of playing of an instrument for a number of years, this, in itself, is also not a guarantee of quality. I will freely admit that as a 2nd year high schooler at 15, with 7 years of playing the trombone since I was 8, the new 1st year trombone player was far better than I was. Practice does not always make perfect.

[Marina2]

Originally Posted by Soshishi

What further downplays Kumiko is not only is she second best among the Euphoniums(Asuka being better) but also second best among the first years(Reina being better). However, I'd like to note that Kumiko wasn't the only one that noticed that Kitauji wasn't very good. Midori wasn't as blunt about it, but you could tell by certain moments(such as when she notes they won bronze and when they tried tuning afterwards) that she also knew they weren't very good either.

If I were to make a list of best players(among the players we've heard and know well) I'd say it goes Asuka-Reina-Kaori-Midori(because of her passion I believe she's better than Kumiko)-Kumiko-Shuichi(He's been struggling a lot more then Kumiko has so I believe Kumiko to be the better musician)-Yuko-Natsuki(I only believe Yuko to be better cause she actually made it through the auditions)- Hazuki I want to place Goto and Rika somewhere in here(maybe following Midori) but I haven't really heard enough of them for me to determine where they are in terms of skill.

Not sure if we should compare the skill level of person who play different Instrument. Each Instrument have different learning curve.

You should take it as "Who trying/training harder? ranking"

[chaosprophet]

@Kazu-kun @Dharma
Just a small correction. They don't says nationals on the PV, but just competition. Because if she wasn't good enough for the nationals level, she may still be good enough for the eminent prefecture level contest. Which is the first step they need to take if they hope to reach the nationals.

Originally Posted by Takigan

She downplays it so much throughout the whole series, but honestly I think Kumiko may very well be the strongest first year next to Reina and may very well be one of the top 10 overall musicians in the entire band. She could tell at the very beginning of the series that the Kitauji band wasn't very good, meaning her own playing was very likely ahead of the curve, and may be even one of the best in the band. the number of years she's been playing (7, being unusual), her background playing at Regional Gold winner KitaChu and the fact she had individual instruction from her older sister adds to this assumption as well. I think the fact that she's having to live in Asuka's shadow (Asuka who, based on previous implications, may be THE best musician in the band, even above Reina) has helped downplay this fact to others as well.

My current guess is that Kumiko have talent for it but after that incident in the first year of middle school she lost her drive / enthusiasm for playing the euphonium and end up averaging out (also to avoid a situation like that happening again).

It's interesting to note that even early on, Kumiko was treated as someone not really exceptional as Asuka but good, even thought she wasn't putting that much effort on it. We don't even tend to see she struggling much and still pass the audition. So those seems to be indications that she is quite talented and could become really good if she starts practicing it more seriously. It would be nice if she starts taking classes later, maybe already on the summer break.

Also this PV make me wonder if Taki's instrument is actually the euphonium. If he has more familiarity with it, then it would be easier for him to come to the conclusion that it could fill a "gap" in a part of the music.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

We don't even tend to see she struggling much and still pass the audition.

She practiced a lot for that audition, and she does have 7 years of experience.

It's interesting to note that even early on, Kumiko was treated as someone not really exceptional as Asuka but good, even thought she wasn't putting that much effort on it.

She did put effort. She even took her instrument home and all.

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

She did put on effort. She even took her instrument home and all.

Didn't she take it home and then proceed to promise her sister that she wouldn't play it at home? That it was home for a cleaning? (Hence the encounter they are going to have in the upcoming episode)

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

Didn't she take it home and then proceed to promise her sister that she wouldn't play it at home? That it was home for a cleaning? (Hence the encounter they are going to have in the upcoming episode)

Yes, but it shows she was taking things seriously. And she was always practiced properly since the start. That one who wasn't putting much effort on it was Natsuki.

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Yes, but it shows she was taking things seriously. And she was always practiced properly since the start. That one who wasn't putting much effort on it was Natsuki.

I really don't think she was taking it as seriously as she could though. She was practicing, yes. But she has room to practice more, since it's established that she didn't practice at home.

She may be decent to good now based on experience and natural talent (the best description in my head is "quietly competent"). But I think she has a higher ceiling than where she is right now.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

I really don't think she was taking it as seriously as she could though. She was practicing, yes. But she has room to practice more

I never got the sense that she wasn't doing her best.

since it's established that she didn't practice at home.

As of episode 6, she was practicing at home.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Yes, but it shows she was taking things seriously. And she was always practiced properly since the start. That one who wasn't putting much effort on it was Natsuki.

Well, Natsuki was blatantly slaking off Instead we can't surely affirm Kumiko was practicing so seriously. If anything I can't say she was putting passion in it. (also because I guess it's supposed to be added thanks to Reina's influence). She has enough experience and skill to practice enough to pass, but not in absolute terms.
Has she mentioned before the desire to get better, apart when seeing Shuuichi? (I honestly don't remember).

But on the other hand that would go a bit against the theory of Asuka being interested in her. That is supposed to be music related. But considering Asuka stance and philosophy we should assume that Kumiko is taking her practice very seriously, but she is doing it in a very Asuka-esque way, if it has any sense. To pass unnoticed, but to be of great substance, musically speaking. (where instead for Asuka is the opposite interpersonally-wise, she tries to not be influential when she could and would be, sort of).

[Kazu-kun]

I honestly don't know why you guys are assuming Kumiko wasn't doing her best. Perhaps she lacked a bit of passion at first, but just a bit, and I don't believe it detracted too much from her practice . And by the time of the audition she seemed pretty passionate already.

[night_sentinel]

Originally Posted by Arya

But on the other hand that would go a bit against the theory of Asuka being interested in her. That is supposed to be music related. But considering Asuka stance and philosophy we should assume that Kumiko is taking her practice very seriously, but she is doing it in a very Asuka-esque way, if it has any sense. To pass unnoticed, but to be of great substance, musically speaking. (where instead for Asuka is the opposite interpersonally-wise, she tries to not be influential when she could and would be, sort of).

Speaking of Asuka being interested in Kumiko. I was just watching episode 7 and a line there interested me. Shuuichi while commenting on his misgiving about Asuka said this, "She [Asuka] might kill me for saying it to you, though."


Quite interesting specially in retrospect with the bass section stating that Asuka treats Kumiko a bit differently.

[chaosprophet]

I do think Kumiko have been gradually getting more into it, but she doesn't seems to be trying as hard as she could or as hard as some of the others are. The scene where she sees Natsuki training right before the audition does seems like she was surprised with how seriously everyone was taking it, besides her previous trauma with that senior. The suprise does imply she wasn't as serious about it herself.

The scene of her seeing Shuuichi last episode also seemed to me as and indication of that. She sees him struggling and having to work that hard to just do the part he is supposed to do and feel bad that she isn't trying as hard as that.

Well, it may be just my impression.

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I never got the sense that she wasn't doing her best.

I can see how you can read that from some of what we've seen, but...

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

As of episode 6, she was practicing at home.

She wasn't. She was practicing in the park.

I can't shake the feeling that she's not taking it as seriously as she can until she is willing to rile her sister up about it. The Kumiko/sister interactions have been too important to her motivations so far.

[Arya]

In my case probably it's because I see her distant from pretty much everything but Reina. And her instrument is the same one that she was ready to change when the year began. I can't conciliate that attitude with putting her best effort in it. (Well unless some external factor does not step in, like say, Reina?)

But again, it would go against what Asuka is supposed to think, musically wise. (of course if we look at it from her social perspective they would go along either, so it is still unclear).

[Kamieichi]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

As of episode 6, she was practicing at home.

She did at the riverside bench, but I don't think she did at home. Or rather she can't. Those kind of condos have strict rules. You can't make a loud sound cause it becomes a nuisance to the other residents.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

but she doesn't seems to be trying as hard as she could or as hard as some of the others are.

Some others? Who, Reina and Asuka? Those girls are obsessed. I don't think we should expect Kumiko to be like that. I don't think she needs to.

Kumiko is already doing her best. Maybe she could be a little more passionate, but she's getting there.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

The scene of her seeing Shuuichi last episode also seemed to me as and indication of that. She sees him struggling and having to work that hard to just do the part he is supposed to do and feel bad that she isn't trying as hard as that.

Well, it may be just my impression.

I was skeptical in citing this, or Kaori's for the same reason, because if you are good enough you are not supposed to be struggling but "just" practicing. So the lack of Kumiko's struggle could be easily explained by the fact that the piece is easy for her. We have to remember that she and Asuka (Asuka far better) were able to play the score at first sight.
But how should we interpret her words about getting better? Yeah, I know, but I honestly skipped the analysis of it in respect to Shuuichi and Kumiko relationship. I don't remember her saying it before. So it's like she was realizing it right there, as you said that she isn't trying as she could or should.

Originally Posted by night_sentinel

Speaking of Asuka being interested in Kumiko. I was just watching episode 7 and a line there interested me. Shuuichi while commenting on his misgiving about Asuka said this, "She [Asuka] might kill me for saying it to you, though."


Quite interesting specially in retrospect with the bass section stating that Asuka treats Kumiko a bit differently.

I'll be honest, I still can't see what Asuka is supposed to see in Kumiko, my speculationis on her is being similar to Asuka for her approach to music. (that if she is truly practicing that hard, but I can't feel it).
Or, now that I think about it, it could be more related to what Asuka would want to / is trying to get. IIRC Natsuki got inspired by Kumiko just for her being Kumiko, maybe that's what she is looking for and seeing in her, and clearly not accomplishing herself (otherwise Natsuki woulnd't have been slacking off for so long).
What is it? I don't know, at first sight it could be the ability to influence others without standing out in any ways. Where probably Asuka problem is exactly that she stands out in any case. If she does or does not something. But yeah, I'm too far away in the speculation field here

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Arya

But how should we interpret her words about getting better? Yeah, I know, but I honestly skipped the analysis of it in respect to Shuuichi and Kumiko relationship. I don't remember her saying it before. So it's like she was realizing it right there, as you said that she isn't trying as she could or should.

She did say it before a few times. In episode 6 when she was with Hazuki and Midori, and in episode 8, when she was with Shuichi.

She likes to remind herself to keep getting better, but it's nothing new.

[chaosprophet]

Originally Posted by Arya

But again, it would go against what Asuka is supposed to think, musically wise. (of course if we look at it from her social perspective they would go along either, so it is still unclear).

Is Asuka interest on her based on Kumiko's music prowess or attitude as a musician (or at least solely on it)? On ep 10 what made Asuka say "You're sure are interesting, Oumae-chan" was Kumiko pushing Asuka to tell her actual personal opinion that she is always hiding, rather than anything related with music.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Some others? Who, Reina and Asuka? Those girls are obsessed. I don't think we should expect Kumiko to be like that. I don't think she needs to.

As hard as Natsuki was for the auditions, and probably some others as Kumiko thinks at that time "everyone wants to participate on the competition" and how she wasn't able to notice something that obvious until that moment. Also as hard as Shuuichi was when she sees him at the park that day.

In any case, next episode may drive her to work even harder if she now has a really hard part to train for the competition.