(L+CR) Hibike! Euphonium [anime]

[night_sentinel]

Originally Posted by Arya

I'll be honest, I still can't see what Asuka is supposed to see in Kumiko, my speculationis on her is being similar to Asuka for her approach to music. (that if she is truly practicing that hard, but I can't feel it).
Or, now that I think about it, it could be more related to what Asuka would want to / is trying to get. IIRC Natsuki got inspired by Kumiko just for her being Kumiko, maybe that's what she is looking for and seeing in her, and clearly not accomplishing herself (otherwise Natsuki woulnd't have been slacking off for so long).
What is it? I don't know, at first sight it could be the ability to influence others without standing out in any ways. Where probably Asuka problem is exactly that she stands out in any case. If she does or does not something. But yeah, I'm too far away in the speculation field here

Yeah. Its kinda hard to know because Asuka gives so little to speculate on.On the other hand, I think its posted here but Asuka's profile state she like useful people in general.

And superficially, there is nothing objectionable about Kumiko for Asuka. Kumiko is the type to not cause drama. She's a skilled player of the euph even.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

As hard as Natsuki was for the auditions, and probably some others as Kumiko thinks at that time "everyone wants to participate on the competition" and how she wasn't able to notice something that obvious until that moment. Also as hard as Shuuichi was when she sees him at the park that day.

Natsuki had problems with the audition piece because she was wasting her time until recently. And Shuichi is practicing more because he's not getting his part right. It's not like they're putting more effort than Kumiko. She just doesn't struggle as much because she's better.

In any case, next episode may drive her to work even harder if she now has a really hard part to train for the competition.

That's because she got a new part, and a pretty difficult one at that, if the preview is any indication.

None of this means she wasn't doing her best already.

[Kamieichi]

Originally Posted by night_sentinel

Speaking of Asuka being interested in Kumiko. I was just watching episode 7 and a line there interested me. Shuuichi while commenting on his misgiving about Asuka said this, "She [Asuka] might kill me for saying it to you, though."


Quite interesting specially in retrospect with the bass section stating that Asuka treats Kumiko a bit differently.

Actually, that line is mistranslated.

Correct translation
"You(Kumiko) might get mad at me if I say this" (久美子にこんなこと言ったら怒られるかもしれないけど)

[chaosprophet]

Originally Posted by Arya

I was skeptical in citing this, or Kaori's for the same reason, because if you are good enough you are not supposed to be struggling but "just" practicing. So the lack of Kumiko's struggle could be easily explained by the fact that the piece is easy for her. We have to remember that she and Asuka (Asuka far better) were able to play the score at first sight.

You have a good point. Kumiko may not be working as hard as some of the other members as she already is good enough for that piece. She don't need to go the extra effort of the obsessed people like Kazu-kun pointed out, as long as her motivation is just to do her "job", her part in the band. But if she decides she wants to exceed, then I think she has a lot more room for working harder and has the talent (where talent may just mean that having practiced it for a long time and from a young age she have a solid base to build upon) to achieve it.

For me young Kumiko seemed to have more passion when it comes to music that how much she has now. And I'm assuming that problem with her senior in middle school that made her lose her passion, although it's true we have yet to see her just before that happened. Maybe her passion when she was very little was just a young kid interest in something new that quickly went away.

[GMT]

Originally Posted by Arya

I'll be honest, I still can't see what Asuka is supposed to see in Kumiko, my speculationis on her is being similar to Asuka for her approach to music. (that if she is truly practicing that hard, but I can't feel it).

I think it's pretty clear what Asuka sees in Kumiko. Asuka only wants to do one thing, and that's play. She hates getting bogged down in petty little band drama, and probably sees the leadership responsibilities (such as being the XO to Haruka's CO, and fostering n00bs like Hazuki) foisted on her as necessary evils.

Given the drama she witnessed the year before, she was probably overjoyed to end up with three freshmen who were willing to work; and positively elated to have wound up with an experienced euphonium player. The euphonium is a versatile instrument, with enough range for both melody and solo parts, and the ability to strengthen or augment other sections as a piece requires.

Ergo, the reason Asuka is interested in Kumiko, is that Kumiko's presence allows Asuka to not have to do so many "necessary evil" things (Kumiko pulled in Natsuki ... a thing Asuka was clearly incapable of doing, for example,) and get on with the business of playing.

And how did Asuka glom onto her in the beginning? Apparently Kumiko must have "euphonium player" tattooed on her face, or something. Midori was unsurprised when Kumiko stated she'd played euphonium in Episode 1; and Asuka said Kumiko "looked" like a euphonium player in Episode 2.

[Triple_R]

I agree with GMT on what Asuka sees in Kumiko.

In addition to that, Asuka might see a good future band leader in Kumiko. Kumiko leaped into action when Aoi left, and IIRC, she was the only person to do so other than the Band President (Haruka) and the VP (Asuka herself). Kumiko also strongly supported Reina, and appears to be the only Band member that has grown close to the new star player. These two facts make Kumiko seem very bold and decisive, at least relative to much of the rest of this band. Kumiko herself is probably one of the Top 10 band members for sheer musical performance - I agree with Kazu-kun on that.

Kumiko approaches music pretty seriously, and appears to love it for its own sake. She seems to be very good at making friends, and she tends to get along well with new people.

Asuka is probably picking up on all of this, and sees someone who could make a good Band leader one day, or failing that, could still be an useful "glue" person for the band.

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I agree with GMT on what Asuka sees in Kumiko.

In addition to that, Asuka might see a good future band leader in Kumiko. Kumiko leaped into action when Aoi left, and IIRC, she was the only person to do so other than the Band President (Haruka) and the VP (Asuka herself). Kumiko also strongly supported Reina, and appears to be the only Band member that has grown close to the new star player. These two facts make Kumiko seem very bold and decisive, at least relative to much of the rest of this band. Kumiko herself is probably one of the Top 10 band members for sheer musical performance - I agree with Kazu-kun on that.

Kumiko approaches music pretty seriously, and appears to love it for its own sake. She seems to be very good at making friends, and she tends to get along well with new people.

Asuka is probably picking up on all of this, and sees someone who could make a good Band leader one day, or failing that, could still be an useful "glue" person for the band.

This is a great point. It would - even in the mystery that is Asuka - go some lengths to explain a few things.

[chaosprophet]

I mentioned this before, but that conclusion you two are coming up with needs Asuka to be someone who cares and works a lot for the band, but does it behind the scenes without people noticing it's her. A kind of well intentioned "just as planned".

While my impression is that she may not really care that much about the band, at least not enough to make her get away from her comfort zone. Her not getting the spotlight seems more like for selfish reasons than actually something she is doing for the band sake.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

You have a good point. Kumiko may not be working as hard as some of the other members as she already is good enough for that piece. She don't need to go the extra effort of the obsessed people like Kazu-kun pointed out, as long as her motivation is just to do her "job", her part in the band. But if she decides she wants to exceed, then I think she has a lot more room for working harder and has the talent (where talent may just mean that having practiced it for a long time and from a young age she have a solid base to build upon) to achieve it.

For me young Kumiko seemed to have more passion when it comes to music that how much she has now. And I'm assuming that problem with her senior in middle school that made her lose her passion, although it's true we have yet to see her just before that happened. Maybe her passion when she was very little was just a young kid interest in something new that quickly went away.

Yep, that's practically my point also, it's not that she is slacking off or anything, is just that she is not up to her potentiality. That's the impression at least.
Regarding her passion lost, I agree that, considering they put it that as a flashback, surely her bad experience influenced her greatly. That's also why I'm assuming she is not doing her best, since it's somehow implied by her characterization that she need to grow (and/or first to go back from where she regressed to) in that department.
In fact my speculation is not if she will grow, but if her growth will be beneficial or positive for her as individual and to her relationships.

Obviously I suspect that her path is not the one to stand out (-> Reina) but the one more akin to her ( -> Asuka), but to ascertain it she first need to get there, as it seems it's actually happening.

Originally Posted by GMT

snip

That's an accurate analysis, it's just that it like something is missing, like I'm expecting something more distinctive than just that. But that's could depend on my bias for Asuka.
In fact the point in which I disagree is the one about Asuka wanting to do just one thing, playing. She is more than that. It was pretty clear in how she acted with Kaori, where despite she seemed detached and even rude in what she did, or did not, was in behalf of Kaori. And that's somehow the key through which I'm seeing her.

So in that I can agree with Triple_R that it may be what Asuka is seeing in Kumiko. That potentiality of being a good band leader (or maybe a good XO).

[GMT]

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

I mentioned this before, but that conclusion you two are coming up with needs Asuka to be someone who cares and works a lot for the band, but does it behind the scenes without people noticing it's her. A kind of well intentioned "just as planned".

While my impression is that she may not really care that much about the band, at least not enough to make her get away from her comfort zone. Her not getting the spotlight seems more like for selfish reasons than actually something she is doing for the band sake.

Indeed. Natsuki says as much in Episode 5 ... Asuka's good at leadership things, but doesn't like doing them. Her doing things for the band always seems to only rise up to the level of "that'll do," or "good enough." She does just enough to patch things up to the point where she doesn't lose out on practice and playing time, but otherwise avoids doing anything that'll get more of that "responsibility" crap on her. Like in the second episode, where she took the initiative to suggest the vote (getting the band past the impasse of deciding how to make a decision,) while volunteering to keep score (thus avoiding any personal responsibility for how the vote goes down.) Or where she sends Midori off so she can find out why she's <GITAH CHORD>-ing up her practice time in Episode 9, but flees once she realizes that sorting it out would require more time investment than she was hoping for. Or in Episode 11, where she gleefully hides behind the "Vice President" mask to avoid getting personally involved in Kaori's drama (beyond the minimum necessary to satisfy Kaori's friendship with her.)

Especially telling is the presence of Natsuki. When we first meet Natsuki, she's always off by the window listening to old Norah Jones albums, or something, (as evidenced by all the sleep she was getting.) If Asuka were more proactive (or cared for much beyond her own interests,) Natsuki would've been whipped into shape already. Instead, we see that Natsuki doesn't get pulled into practices until Kumiko comes along and drags her sleepy ass into ensemble. Here, it's plainly apparent that Asuka is willing to let Natsuki slack off, because she's not really doing anything that'd get in the way of Asuka's playing time.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Arya

Yep, that's practically my point also, it's not that she is slacking off or anything, is just that she is not up to her potentiality. That's the impression at least.

What potential? You think she could be a lot better than she is now? I don't think so.

She could be better, and she will, but she will never be as good as people like Asuka and Reina. The talent they have is the talent of being obsessed, of being really focused on just one thing with little to no regard for anything else. Kumiko isn't like that. She has a wider perspective. And that's not a bad thing. She will never be a star player, but she could make a good leader, something Asuka will never be despite having some leader-like qualities to her.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

What potential? You think she could be a lot better than she is now? I don't think so.

She could be better, and she will, but she will never be as good as people like Asuka and Reina. The talent they have is the talent of being obsessed, of being really focused on just one thing with little to no care for anything else. Kumiko isn't like that. She has a wider perspective. And that's not a bad thing. She will never be a star player, but she could make a good leader, something Asuka will never be despite having some leader-like qualities to her.

Well, it doesn't matter defining what potential, the point is that she is not up to it. Giving her margin to grow. As much as for her personal growth. And it's not bad. It means that she is a dynamic character. As it should.
About Asuka, I don't know if she has or has not leader qualities, she has the authority, or so it seems, but she fears to use it, but on that I'll write later if I'll be able to define it in a way that makes sense.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

This is a great point. It would - even in the mystery that is Asuka - go some lengths to explain a few things.

Thank you! And I agree on how Asuka having this perception of Kumiko could help explain a few things.

Originally Posted by Arya

That's an accurate analysis, it's just that it like something is missing, like I'm expecting something more distinctive than just that. But that's could depend on my bias for Asuka.
In fact the point in which I disagree is the one about Asuka wanting to do just one thing, playing. She is more than that.

I think you're seeing something real here. I think I'm seeing the same thing.

Here is what I think it is - Asuka just wants to play, but she's shrewd enough (and now experienced enough) to realize that just ignoring unwanted drama isn't necessarily going to make it go away. So I think Asuka does spend just a little bit of time/effort supporting, and being on the lookout for, good people managers in the band.

Here's an analogy I would use - To Asuka, band drama is like an annoying pest infestation plaguing your home. But pests don't go away just because you want them to. Sometimes you might have to hire an exterminator to get rid of them for you. So Asuka has developed a keen eye for people who might be good at "exterminating" unwanted band drama. Put a little bit of effort into supporting good people managers today, so you have a lot less drama annoyance tomorrow. This is a self-aware tradeoff that Asuka might be making.

Look at the people that Asuka has had the most one-on-one conversations with - Haruka, Kaori, and Kumiko.

Haruka is the Band President, so she's already in a people management position. Kaori is well-liked and polite/deferential. Kumiko is good at making friends, and tends to get along well with people.

These are all people that Asuka can reasonably hope to help manage band drama. So she gives them a bit of support, and a bit of her time.

In other words, Asuka is proactive, not just reactive. She's proactive in not wanting band drama. The root is still what GMT said - Just wanting to play, no BS.

[Takigan]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Kumiko is good at making friends, and tends to get along well with people.

This I might disagree with. In ep.8 Natsuki asks Kumiko who she's going to Agata-Matsuri with and she says she really doesn't like crowds...then she further elaborates with an odd comment about how since she has street vendors near her house, that the attractions of the festival don't interest her. This seems strange to Natsuki who responds "You sound kind of distant...", as Kumiko is blowing off the fact that Agata-Matsuri is less about the vendors and more about spending time with your friends.

This aspect of Kumiko is expanded on when she's hiking the mountain with Reina, when Reina mentions how she and Kumiko are the same in that they're both out of step with other people.

She also has the habit of blurting out what's on her mind....which I'm sure has gotten herself in trouble with people in the past.

[chaosprophet]

I agree with Takigan. When you look at earlier episodes, her friendship with Hazuki started because Hazuki pushed herself into Kumiko. And then Saphire was added to the group also because of Hazuki. Kumiko just went there with the flow and was even taken aback in the beginning with how quickly Hazuki was calling her by her given name, for example.

[sikvod00]

I think Takigan and Triple R are touching on the what I see as the big difference between Kumiko and Reina. Yes, they may be soulmates and share a deep bond. But Kumiko is not a true loner. She can still make friends, albeit not as intimate and they may not be on the same wavelength. She doesn't intentionally go out of her way to be a special snowflake who shuns plebs. However, she has a tendency to be distant and feel crowds are a pain. In a way, she is less vulnerable than Reina. One could argue that Reina needs her support more than the other way around.

[Triple_R]

Kumiko has had a pretty good number of friends.

Aoi and Shu are both childhood friends of hers, it seems. There was also that girl, from the different school, that went out of her way to catch up with Kumiko during the SunFes in Episode 5. That girl then asked Kumiko to come along with her to meet another old friend.

At her new school, Kumiko is also now friends with Reina, Hazuki, and Midori. Asuka and Natsuki also seem to like her. Nobody seems to be enemies with Kumiko. Even Yuuko seemed to feel comfortable opening up to Kumiko in that one Episode 11 scene between them.


I think Kumiko has a mix of "brave smiling face", and mostly private but firm honesty, that appeals to some people. That "brave smiling face" makes her seem fun and/or welcoming, while the firm honesty makes it clear that there's more to this girl than what meets the eye, which can help make her more interesting to new people. The brave smiling face breaks the ice, but then its Kumiko's "terrible personality" that some people seem to like about her.

Now, Kumiko herself may not be aware of this. But from an outsider perspective, she certainly seems to me to be a person that tends to draw people to her. Some people like honesty, and search it out, even when it might be unpleasant.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by sikvod00

In a way, she is less vulnerable than Reina. One could argue that Reina needs her support more than the other way around.

I'm not sure. Kumiko have many friends, but I don't think any of them is close enough to help her out in her weak moments like Reina does (episode 9, for example). So, all in all, I think they complement each other quite well and their relationship is pretty well balanced despite how different they are.

Also don't forget Reina has been doing her thing for years before she started hanging out with Kumiko. Don't assume she's more vulnerable than she really is just because she had a weak moment recently.

[chaosprophet]

Originally Posted by sikvod00

I think Takigan and Triple R are touching on the what I see as the big difference between Kumiko and Reina. Yes, they may be soulmates and share a deep bond. But Kumiko is not a true loner. She can still make friends, albeit not as intimate and they may not be on the same wavelength. She doesn't intentionally go out of her way to be a special snowflake who shuns plebs. However, she has a tendency to be distant and feel crowds are a pain. In a way, she is less vulnerable than Reina. One could argue that Reina needs her support more than the other way around.

Reina don't shun people away. She just doesn't make any effort to get close to them. Shunning would be treating others badly, while Reina is respectful to others.

Kumiko goes through the effort of socializing but while still being distant with most people.

[BleedingUranium]

Originally Posted by Takigan

To expand on my previous post, if we count Saki and Kamaya Tsubame (#37) We're only missing 2 percussionists. Also, by adding Hitomi-chan (#47) we're up to 33 members and thus have covered HALF the band! (at least with knowing given names).

I don't have these on my chart, have you not updated all of them, or did I miss an update? Also you mentioned the quality degrading when you re-save it, which is a side effect of using jpg instead of png; the former is lossy, like mp3.

Currently I'm at 31/64 with names, including two that only have family names (not counting the five family names without faces).

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

I mentioned this before, but that conclusion you two are coming up with needs Asuka to be someone who cares and works a lot for the band, but does it behind the scenes without people noticing it's her. A kind of well intentioned "just as planned".

While my impression is that she may not really care that much about the band, at least not enough to make her get away from her comfort zone. Her not getting the spotlight seems more like for selfish reasons than actually something she is doing for the band sake.

I think it's a blend of both. She's aware of her comfort zone, and has found a position and role that allows her to stay within it while still being outgoing, passionate, and useful.


The problem is in the last three episodes or so is the situation has been changing, and she's dragging her feet really hard, refusing to accept that she can't just stay the same as she has always been in the band's new reality.

This is exactly why, in two good examples (her sneaking up on Kumiko and throwing the carbonated water to Kaori) she's exactly the same as she was back in the first episode. But the setting and surroundings have changed, the tone has changed, and even the background music heavily reflects this.


Past this, I agree all of with GMT's and Triple_R's Asuka analyses.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Kumiko has had a pretty good number of friends.

Aoi and Shu are both childhood friends of hers, it seems. There was also that girl, from the different school, that went out of her way to catch up with Kumiko during the SunFes in Episode 5. That girl then asked Kumiko to come along with her to meet another old friend.

At her new school, Kumiko is also now friends with Reina, Hazuki, and Midori. Asuka and Natsuki also seem to like her. Nobody seems to be enemies with Kumiko. Even Yuuko seemed to feel comfortable opening up to Kumiko in that one Episode 11 scene between them.


I think Kumiko has a mix of "brave smiling face", and mostly private but firm honesty, that appeals to some people. That "brave smiling face" makes her seem fun and/or welcoming, while the firm honesty makes it clear that there's more to this girl than what meets the eye, which can help make her more interesting to new people. The brave smiling face breaks the ice, but then its Kumiko's "terrible personality" that some people seem to like about her.

Now, Kumiko herself may not be aware of this. But from an outsider perspective, she certainly seems to me to be a person that tends to draw people to her. Some people like honesty, and search it out, even when it might be unpleasant.

Azusa.

Images

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Also, I think you just described exactly what Asuka sees in Kumiko.