Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[monster]

Originally Posted by atilim

UC Gundams and Gundam Age 1 and 2 doesn't have a powerful attack that takes out half of the MS in a minute. They usually take out ton of MS over the course of the show but mostly in small scale battles.

The same is true for SEED/Destiny.

In case you didn't know, the final battles of both SEED and Destiny ended, not because one side's force was wiped out, but because all the WMDs were destroyed, along with some of the leaders, and they had a cease fire.

[atilim]

Originally Posted by monster

The same is true for SEED/Destiny.

In case you didn't know, the final battles of both SEED and Destiny ended, not because one side's force was wiped out, but because all the WMDs were destroyed, along with some of the leaders, and they had a cease fire.

If I take Gundam 00 as a example the entire show (especially s1) shows how a few mobile suits (gundams) are capable of taking out entire army's.... It doesn't mater that in the end the power of love succeeds in where weapons failed.

I have no issue with how Seed and 00 handeld it but you can hardly call it natural for single mobile suits/soldiers taking out hunderds of enemies.

Best fights Kira had was when he was fighting with the Strike, instead of flying at a enemy and taking them out at high speed he was duelling and struggling, it wasn't auto kill. I like (strike) Freedom but the moment Kira used those overpowered suits it changed from a action game to a hack and slack game.

[monster]

Originally Posted by atilim

I have no issue with how Seed and 00 handeld it but you can hardly call it natural for single mobile suits/soldiers taking out hunderds of enemies.

I don't know about 00, but I can assure you that Kira has never taken out hundreds of enemies in a single battle.

If we include another Gundam show, the closest I can think of to what you're saying happened in Wing Endless Waltz, where three of the Gundams faced nearly 50 enemy mobile suits, each. And even then, it's a far cy from hundreds of enemies.

[kakakka]

The biggest engagement in 00 from what I remember, next to Taklamakan, is the last battle against the A-Laws, who declared to have 108 mobile suits during the battle. And even then they were not entirely wiped out nor the Gundams did all the fighting.

EDIT: Damn, I forgot the ELS. Hahahaha

[atilim]

Take the numbers with a grain of salt but if you want examples of being overpowered then I will give you that.

Kira and Freedom during every battle where he decided to use to auto lock or metour, a good example was during the final battle and in Destiny before he got defeated and during the final battle.

Gundam 00: the whole show started with gundams overpowering the oponents. For example when they decided to invade that countries when Setsuna decided to leave his cockpit, 4 MS defeated a entire army. And during S2 the killing was done mostly by the Gundams and the ships, the ally grunt pilots weren't actively flying around and taking out ships/MS.

If I compare episode 22 of Age during that attack on the Big Ring, can people honestly claim that Asemu had the same level of impact on the battle as other pilots form other shows. You see him taking out mobile suits but the impact he has on the battle didn't dictate the end result.

[kakakka]

Originally Posted by atilim

Take the numbers with a grain of salt but if you want examples of being overpowered then I will give you that.

You did say 100 enemies per mobile suits. Take it as a grain of salt?

[Gundamx]

By the way, why everyone say that Kira use Auto-lock?
Didn't DRAGONs use xyz systems unlike Newtype funnel which you can control them with your mind?

[monster]

Originally Posted by atilim

Kira and Freedom during every battle where he decided to use to auto lock or metour, a good example was during the final battle and in Destiny before he got defeated and during the final battle.

I think every CE mobile suit has some sort of a targeting mechanism. You can even see Strike's targeting mechanism in operation in the newly published YouTube episode of SEED remaster, among others.

The difference with Freedom is that it has an extra mode for locking on to multiple targets for rapid shots.

Gundam 00: the whole show started with gundams overpowering the oponents. For example when they decided to invade that countries when Setsuna decided to leave his cockpit, 4 MS defeated a entire army. And during S2 the killing was done mostly by the Gundams and the ships, the ally grunt pilots weren't actively flying around and taking out ships/MS.

They're supposed to do that. In 00, and Wing before it, the Gundams are going against enemies that vastly outnumber them. The only way they could conceivably succeed will be though superior weapons.

If I compare episode 22 of Age during that attack on the Big Ring, can people honestly claim that Asemu had the same level of impact on the battle as other pilots form other shows. You see him taking out mobile suits but the impact he has on the battle didn't dictate the end result.

In the case of AGE, the plot dictates that Asem had to feel outclassed by Zeheart and Flit.

But I don't doubt that Asem will make his mark on the battlefield like nearly every Gundam pilots/protagonists before him, if he hasn't already done so by episode 26.

[atilim]

Originally Posted by monster

I think every CE mobile suit has some sort of a targeting mechanism. You can even see Strike's targeting mechanism in operation in the newly published YouTube episode of SEED remaster, among others.

The difference with Freedom is that it has an extra mode for locking on to multiple targets for rapid shots.

They're supposed to do that. In 00, and Wing before it, the Gundams are going against enemies that vastly outnumber them. The only way they could conceivably succeed will be though superior weapons. In the case of AGE, the plot dictates that Asem had to feel outclassed by Zeheart and Flit.

But I don't doubt that Asem will make his mark on the battlefield like nearly every Gundam pilots/protagonists before him, if he hasn't already done so by episode 26.

Locking on a single target is not the same as locking at the multiply targets....

And even if during any gundam show the show was about overwhelming power of Gundams their are different ways to express that.

You got the way done in most UC shows and Age where the Gundam mobile suit pisses of the enemy in small scale battles

Or you have like in Wing, Seed and 00 where a single gundam equals a whole army which you even admitted it. Nothing wrong with that but don't deny it after admitting it.

[monster]

Originally Posted by atilim

Locking on a single target is not the same as locking at the multiply targets....

I didn't say it was. I'm just pointing out that it's not something unbelievable.

Or you have like in Wing, Seed and 00 where a single gundam equals a whole army which you even admitted it. Nothing wrong with that but don't deny it after admitting it.

I never denied it, I just don't agree with it being as ridiculous as you painted it out to be with your earlier assessment of "taking out hundreds of enemies."

[Principalities]

Originally Posted by monster

Considering the plot, either they were going to use beam spam or they were going to use HUGE beam sabers like in 00 and AGE currently.

It did have huge beamsabers. METEOR anyone?

Originally Posted by monster

Indeed, and it also fits into the larger context of the story where Zala most likely had wanted to create something that would prevent what happened to Junius 7 from happening again, hence the Freedom/Justice and their METEOR units.

If Zala wasn't so hateful in the end, he would probably have been proud and happy to have seen that his creation was indeed helpful in destroying many nuclear-armed missiles.

Funny how the Freedom saved more lives than he could have possibly imagined.

Originally Posted by atilim

Locking on a single target is not the same as locking at the multiply targets....

And even if during any gundam show the show was about overwhelming power of Gundams their are different ways to express that.

You got the way done in most UC shows and Age where the Gundam mobile suit pisses of the enemy in small scale battles

Or you have like in Wing, Seed and 00 where a single gundam equals a whole army which you even admitted it. Nothing wrong with that but don't deny it after admitting it.

How is Asem different? He is an ace pilot with cutting edge ms. He produced an impact by performing surgical strikes at high priority targets. Same as Kira. I don't recall any episode where Kira waltzes into the battlefield and annihilates entire armies (that would make for a very short series).... squads maybe but not armies... lol

Yes, arguably the Gundams in Wing could destroy entire armies. But the same cannot be said about SEED and 00 (movie not included cos thats versus aliens )

[monster]

Originally Posted by Principalities

It did have huge beamsabers. METEOR anyone?

HAHA, I can't believe I forgot. I guess, I should've meant "and/or."

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Principalities

How is Asem different? He is an ace pilot with cutting edge ms. He produced an impact by performing surgical strikes at high priority targets. Same as Kira. I don't recall any episode where Kira waltzes into the battlefield and annihilates entire armies (that would make for a very short series).... squads maybe but not armies... lol

Asem is a rookie pilot with a cutting edge ms, he can barely take out 3~ enemy mobile suits per sortie, and struggles alot against enemy ace pilots, he is not a Ace pilot

Kira has rushed into the middle of the battlefield on several occasions, episode 46-50 of seed for example, bumrush with meteor + shooting down nukes, enemy mobile suits.

Several episodes in Destiny, Kira bumrushes in and shoots down several mobile suits (on all sides)

same towards the ending of destiny, Kira once again rushes in and auto-shoots down loads of mobile suits.

While we havent seen a onscreen killcount, its safe to assume Kira has shot down atleast 50 mobile suits at both Seed and Destinys final major battle, not to mention his average ms killcount/disabling is around 10-20 per battle he fights in.

[tarachi]

Comparing Asem's rookie stage to Kira's Mid to Ace pilot stage is way not accurate IMO, also we have to factor in the MS's capabilities.

[monster]

Haha, I agree with Andrew. Cagalli just doesn't know how to control her mouth. But, that's probably her appeal as well.

10 years later, and I still can laugh at Kira's (admittedly strange) reaction to seeing Cagalli in a dress (and her reaction to his reaction). (And the reason why it's strange is because Kira was actually serious.)

Poor Sai, once again, and poor Kira as well. It's interesting how they're both actually having similar type of problem: pressure.

[Gundamx]

Episode 18 up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SibpJFufEDQ

Errr.... stupid question I know
But is it me or did Cagali chest become smaller in Destiny?

Back to topic:-
Andrew have a point, how will the war end?
By killing every single Coordinators /or Naturals?

(Since the war start between 2 differences races it can only end by one side winning
or draw/peace but if one side win than it will be massacre for the other since we
already know that both side don't mind killing other side surrendering soldiers.)

It was really stupid to start war just because other side is different than us but
than again human are known to do stupid thing...

[atilim]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

Episode 18 up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SibpJFufEDQ

Errr.... stupid question I know
But is it me or did Cagali chest become smaller in Destiny?

Back to topic:-
Andrew have a point, how will the war end?
By killing every single Coordinators /or Naturals?

(Since the war start between 2 differences races it can only end by one side winning
or draw/peace but if one side win than it will be massacre for the other since we
already know that both side don't mind killing other side surrendering soldiers.)



It was really stupid to start war just because other side is different than us but
than again human are known to do stupid thing...

It is easier to just kill Blue Cosmos (ignoring Logos because it is a secret organization) and every single corporation that is connected to Blue Cosmos like the company that created the new mobile suits.

It isn't really shown in the anime but the true war mongers on the Natural side are the Atlantic Federation people.

And eventually the war between Naturals and Coordinators didn't end because what Kira and co did but because Zaft and co did by killing of Logos/Blue Cosmos.

And the war per se wasn't that stupid if you compare it to some other wars.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by atilim

It is easier to just kill Blue Cosmos (ignoring Logos because it is a secret organization) and every single corporation that is connected to Blue Cosmos like the company that created the new mobile suits.

It isn't really shown in the anime but the true war mongers on the Natural side are the Atlantic Federation people.

And eventually the war between Naturals and Coordinators didn't end because what Kira and co did but because Zaft and co did by killing of Logos/Blue Cosmos.

And the war per se wasn't that stupid if you compare it to some other wars.

Err, first war end because of Kira and Co.

Second war start when Logos/Blue Cosmos use people hatred after Junius Seven
Colony drop to start another war which end by Logos/Blue Cosmos captured/death.

Last war start because Durandal used Requiem to destroy the country(forget it's
name) which refuse to join Destiny Plan and since Orb refuse it too they have no choice but to fight PLANET.
Which Kira and co win.
(They fought Durandal since he made it clear to obey him or be eliminated.)

[casval cehack]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

Episode 18 up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SibpJFufEDQ

Errr.... stupid question I know
But is it me or did Cagali chest become smaller in Destiny?

Back to topic:-
Andrew have a point, how will the war end?
By killing every single Coordinators /or Naturals?

(Since the war start between 2 differences races it can only end by one side winning
or draw/peace but if one side win than it will be massacre for the other since we
already know that both side don't mind killing other side surrendering soldiers.)

It was really stupid to start war just because other side is different than us but
than again human are known to do stupid thing...

Managing Orb and the Seirans was pretty stressful. Not to mention Asuran "ZAFTing" around.

[aeriolewinters]

But is it me or did Cagali chest become smaller in Destiny?

Cagalli has so little Remastered scenes, A bit of revenge from the writer...perhaps