Shin High School DxD Volume 2 Discussion

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Parry999

Dulio was the leader of of team dxd dude and a seraph candidate. What exactly do you disagree with him being a better king? I am not saying this out of some spite against her.

Dulio was the leader of DxD because an angel has a very good image compared to devils and fallen angels. And Dulio being a Seraph candidate was because of his immense strength more than anything else. I have no idea how you use those examples to say that Dulio is a better king than Rias.

I just don't agree with you that Dulio's a better king than Rias and that there really isn't any evidence proving that. There's a possibility he may be but still again there's no evidence.

@Lex79 What you mean is that Issei's the MC and gets the most focus in the series. That doesn't entirely translate to him winning the match against Rias. Issei was the main focus in Volume 23 and he lost the match to Dulio.

Again the plot may have Issei losing. All those things you.listed could be used to make Rias winning look even more impressive by beating such a hyped up opponent. Like Issei's team defeating the Jest of Kings team. I've heard a lot of things about Rias being a wall that Issei needs to overcome. But with all those things you listed, it sounds like Issei's the wall Rias needs to overcome. Issei going independent from Rias could be seen as the same in reverse as Rias has relied on Issei's strength for so long and he's been the cornerstone of her team for so long and now she doesn't have him anymore. So can Rias make it on her own without Issei? The preliminaries proved that she could. And the way her team pressured the members of the Vali Team proved that she doesn't need Issei to be a major threat.

Sorry for the essay. But Rias has as much a chance to win as Issei does. Her winning is not unpredictable. Just because Issei is the focus of the series doesn't mean he won't lose this match.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Dulio was the leader of DxD because an angel has a very good image compared to devils and fallen angels. And Dulio being a Seraph candidate was because of his immense strength more than anything else. I have no idea how you use those examples to say that Dulio is a better king than Rias.

I just don't agree with you that Dulio's a better king than Rias and that there really isn't any evidence proving that. There's a possibility he may be but still again there's no evidence.

@Lex79 What you mean is that Issei's the MC and gets the most focus in the series. That doesn't entirely translate to him winning the match against Rias. Issei was the main focus in Volume 23 and he lost the match to Dulio.

Again the plot may have Issei losing. All those things you.listed could be used to make Rias winning look even more impressive by beating such a hyped up opponent. Like Issei's team defeating the Jest of Kings team. I've heard a lot of things about Rias being a wall that Issei needs to overcome. But with all those things you listed, it sounds like Issei's the wall Rias needs to overcome. Issei going independent from Rias could be seen as the same in reverse as Rias has relied on Issei's strength for so long and he's been the cornerstone of her team for so long and now she doesn't have him anymore. So can Rias make it on her own without Issei? The preliminaries proved that she could. And the way her team pressured the members of the Vali Team proved that she doesn't need Issei to be a major threat.

Sorry for the essay. But Rias has as much a chance to win as Issei does. Her winning is not unpredictable. Just because Issei is the focus of the series doesn't mean he won't lose this match.

Issei wasn't the main focus in volume 23. The main focus was the church aspect. The volume mainly went over Dulio's and Rudiger reasons of wanting to win the tournament due to how many innocent kids has suffered because of the Sacred Gear system. Also the volume was focused on the church trio in particular. The only factor of Issei being involved was that he needed to experience defeated as Ishibumi said he would. Other than that, Issei had little focus in this volume.

The thing is Rias has already proven she could do just fine without Issei. Volume 24 has shown it and volume 25 has stated it multiple times so her actually beating Issei would prove nothing. On the other hand Issei beating Rias would prove alot because it would show his independence. Rias has only relied on Issei's strength but that's easily replaced by Crom (who also serves as a wall for Issei). Furthermore, Issei has relied on Rias more than she relied on him since she has practically taken care of him ever since he became a devil and guided him.

Issei is more hyped up than Rias because of his accomplishments and being one of the Heavenly Dragons. Vali is more hyped up than Rias and yet did Rias beat him? No. Rias team is basically the combination of all the tough opponents, rivals and friends that Issei has made down the road with Rias being in the center as his master and lover. And that is a obstical that Issei has to face because he's up against the very person that knows him better than anyone else.

Because of that it would make perfect sense that Issei beats Rias. Rias has nothing to prove by beating Issei. Meanwhile every match that Issei was in had an important aspect to it.

[B214]

Final predictions:

Indra vs Mahabali
Sairaorg vs Shooting Star
Ise vs Rias
Diehauser vs Zeno
Cao Cao vs Surtr
Typhon vs Ruval
Tobio vs Dulio
Vali vs Wukong

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Because of that it would make perfect sense that Issei beats Rias. Rias has nothing to prove by beating Issei. Meanwhile every match that Issei was in had an important aspect to it.

Nothing to prove? Rias has been a King longer than Ise and she's his King. Do you think anyone would be please if you lose to your subordinate.

Originally Posted by Parry999

He already lost to Dulio whose let's be honest a better King then poor Rias.

No offense but Rias is the better King compared to most people in this series. If she wasn't a good king, do you think Ise in V1 would even be what he is today? Most Devils would just consider Ise a failed product and keep on trading him around till he becomes a nobody. Rias took the initiative for her servants to train. That's what a good king does. A general doesn't have to be strong but they need to know how to make people work for them.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by B214

No offense but Rias is the better King compared to most people in this series. If she wasn't a good king, do you think Ise in V1 would even be what he is today? Most Devils would just consider Ise a failed product and keep on trading him around till he becomes a nobody. Rias took the initiative for her servants to train. That's what a good king does. A general doesn't have to be strong but they need to know how to make people work for them.

That's what all the rookie 4 do specially Sona whose peerage is mostly nothing special. Not sure what point your trying to make here. If you mean her power of attraction is good then yes that's true. Never said Rias was weak either.

[Lex79]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Dulio was the leader of DxD because an angel has a very good image compared to devils and fallen angels. And Dulio being a Seraph candidate was because of his immense strength more than anything else. I have no idea how you use those examples to say that Dulio is a better king than Rias.

I just don't agree with you that Dulio's a better king than Rias and that there really isn't any evidence proving that. There's a possibility he may be but still again there's no evidence.

@Lex79 What you mean is that Issei's the MC and gets the most focus in the series. That doesn't entirely translate to him winning the match against Rias. Issei was the main focus in Volume 23 and he lost the match to Dulio.

Again the plot may have Issei losing. All those things you.listed could be used to make Rias winning look even more impressive by beating such a hyped up opponent. Like Issei's team defeating the Jest of Kings team. I've heard a lot of things about Rias being a wall that Issei needs to overcome. But with all those things you listed, it sounds like Issei's the wall Rias needs to overcome. Issei going independent from Rias could be seen as the same in reverse as Rias has relied on Issei's strength for so long and he's been the cornerstone of her team for so long and now she doesn't have him anymore. So can Rias make it on her own without Issei? The preliminaries proved that she could. And the way her team pressured the members of the Vali Team proved that she doesn't need Issei to be a major threat.

Sorry for the essay. But Rias has as much a chance to win as Issei does. Her winning is not unpredictable. Just because Issei is the focus of the series doesn't mean he won't lose this match.

It was fine losing to Dulio because it was in the preliminaries, now it's a completely different matter because losing means being out of the tournament. And yeah, Issei is the protagonist while Rias is the love interest, that's exactly why the chance that Ishibumi is going to make Issei lose in order to hype her are very slim.

[Lucidrago]

Sairaorg Bael vs Shooting Star

Indra vs Mahabali

Issei Hyoudou vs Rias Gremory

Diehauser Belial vs Zeno

Cao Cao vs Surtr

Ruval Phenex vs Typhon

Dulio Gesualdo vs Tobio Ikuse

Vali Lucifer vs Sun Wukong

I feel confident that at least 5 of those are going to come to pass.

[Emperor of D.]

Originally Posted by Parry999

That's what all the rookie 4 do specially Sona whose peerage is mostly nothing special. Not sure what point your trying to make here. If you mean her power of attraction is good then yes that's true. Never said Rias was weak either.

Yes, but as @B214 said, Rias also knows how to make people work for her. Rossweisse, Strada and Crom all came under Rias from negotiations.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by B214

Final predictions:

Indra vs Mahabali
Sairaorg vs Shooting Star
Ise vs Rias
Diehauser vs Zeno
Cao Cao vs Surtr
Typhon vs Ruval
Tobio vs Dulio
Vali vs Wukong



Nothing to prove? Rias has been a King longer than Ise and she's his King. Do you think anyone would be please if you lose to your subordinate.



No offense but Rias is the better King compared to most people in this series. If she wasn't a good king, do you think Ise in V1 would even be what he is today? Most Devils would just consider Ise a failed product and keep on trading him around till he becomes a nobody. Rias took the initiative for her servants to train. That's what a good king does. A general doesn't have to be strong but they need to know how to make people work for them.

You think people would make fun of Rias by losing to Issei? Issei just made a huge upset by beating Team Jest of the Kings. At this point Issei has become one of the favorites in the tournament and has beaten kings who has more experience than him like Sona. Again, Rias has nothing to prove by beating Issei.

[bashkim1234]

Well if Ise lose the discussion about him become a maou candidate will end.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Sairaorg Bael vs Shooting Star

Indra vs Mahabali

Issei Hyoudou vs Rias Gremory

Diehauser Belial vs Zeno

Cao Cao vs Surtr

Ruval Phenex vs Typhon

Dulio Gesualdo vs Tobio Ikuse

Vali Lucifer vs Sun Wukong

I feel confident that at least 5 of those are going to come to pass.

Why do you think Ishibumi will throw away the opportunity of making Vali face Tobio and Lavinia (characters that Vali has a lot more personal connection than Dulio)? Why do you think Indra will be defeated by Mahabali (with all the hype that Ishibumi created with Indra being the strongest participant of the tournament)?

If your predictions are right, Mahabali or Sairaorg will reach one of the semi-finals (Top 4 in the tournament). Do you really think it makes more sense for the story, Indra (the God of war who is being hyped by the author ever since volume 10) to lose in the first round of the playoffs, while Sairaorg (who along with Regulus are the only characters that are relevant to the story in his entire team) becomes possibly one of the top 4? What about Mahabali who was introduced in volume 22 and his only relevant achievement in the story so far was to be used by Ishibumi to show how strong Balberith and Verrine are? Do you really think that him being one of the top 4 in Indra's place makes sense?

I'm curious to see your reasons for these choices.

[TheWu8128]

I don't believe he has any real reasoning, just "gut" feelings. I posted my prediction and reasoning about a month or 2 ago. I believe it's the same as B24's as a matter of fact I believe every choice is the same

[Lex79]

My predictions:
Sairaorg Bael vs Shooting Star: while I like Sairaorg he already had his spotlight in volume 10, I think he is going to lose in order to push the new characters.

Indra vs Mahabali: Indra is too hyped to lose against Mahabali who never really had a role in the story.

Issei Hyoudou vs Rias Gremory: the tournament wouldn't make sense without Issei.

Diehauser Belial vs Zeno: same for sairaorg, Diehauser already had his arc, now he's going to lose to the new guys.

Cao Cao vs Surtr: I can see cao cao meeting vali in the semifinals.

Ruval Phenex vs Typhon: dont' really know, probably Ruval because we haven't seen anything about him while Typhoon already had a match in volume 25.

Dulio Gesualdo vs Tobio Ikuse: Tobio is the main character of his own series and has connections to vali, so I think he will win and face him in the next match.

Vali Lucifer vs Sun Wukong: vali isn't going to lose unless it's against Issei or the last boss to be avanged by Issei.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Lex79

My predictions:
Sairaorg Bael vs Shooting Star: while I like Sairaorg he already had his spotlight in volume 10, I think he is going to lose in order to push the new characters.

Indra vs Mahabali: Indra is too hyped to lose against Mahabali who never really had a role in the story.

Diehauser Belial vs Zeno: same for sairaorg, Diehauser already had his arc, now he's going to lose to the new guys.

Cao Cao vs Surtr: I can see cao cao meeting vali in the semifinals.

Ruval Phenex vs Typhon: dont' really know, probably Ruval because we haven't seen anything about him while Typhoon already had a match in volume 25.

Dulio Gesualdo vs Tobio Ikuse: Tobio is the main character of his own series and has connections to vali, so I think he will win and face him in the next match.

Vali Lucifer vs Sun Wukong: vali isn't going to lose unless it's against Issei or the last boss to be avanged by Issei.

We're not going to see much of a lot of the other teams in action unless they fight either Issei's, Rias', or Vali's teams. For example if Shooting Star wins against Sairaorg and then goes to face Indra or Mahabali next and they defeat him, you really wouldn't see much of him.

I just wonder how you say Indra has been too hyped up in the story to lose his match against Mahabali. But then you say certain teams will win because we haven't seen much of them. Well we haven't seen much of Mahabali. And besides Indra being one of the Top 10 and being really hyped up as the most favored to win the tournament could be used to have him losing to Mahabali. Plus didn't Ishibumi say he wanted to focus on the young gods a bit and wouldn't Mahabali count as a young god?

Diehauser never had an arc. If you're talking about his involvement with Qlippoth, that wasn't really anything except an introduction. I really can't imagine Diehauser losing against Zeno though even with two Super Devils on the team. And plus this won't be the last we see of Balberith and Verrine.

With Cao Cao meeting Vali in the semifinals, I.just don't see it. They have already fought each other before and I don't believe Ishibumi will have him face opponents he already has fought before in the quarterfinals and semifinals.

With Ruval vs Typhon, I see them losing again to someone with the blood of Phenex.

With Dulio vs Tobio, I thought the same thing at first. Then I remembered something. Back in Volume 11, when Dulio was first mentioned by name, it was mentioned that Dulio was at the top of Vali's 'want-to-fight' list. And besides the fact that Tobio has his own series seems to me the reason why he shouldn't win. I don't think Tobio should really get a whole lot of attention in DxD because he has his attention as the MC in his own series, Slash Dog. And I just don't see a fight happening between them considering it has already happened. And also if Dulio lost while having Rudiger as his supervisor, it would be kind of disappointing. It just seems more interesting if Vali had to overcome the 2nd most powerful Longinus, a team of Brave Saints(who have both the advantages of their cards and the evil pieces due to the tournament, and having Rudiger as Dulio's supervisor. It seems more likely Vali would have to overcome all of that instead of Vali facing someone he has already fought before. I just see this one going to Dulio.

I agree with you about Vali winning against Sun Wukong. And I agree about Vali not losing to anyone unless It's Issei. But only in an individual fight sense, not necessarily when it comes to a Rating Game.

In my view, I don't see both Issei and Vali making it to the semifinals.

I expect some major upsets out of those 8 matches. Especially Indra vs Mahabali, Diehauser vs Zeno, and Ruval vs Typhon.

But I can see Ishibumi covering two of the matches in the quarterfinals like in a DX volume.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

We're not going to see much of a lot of the other teams in action unless they fight either Issei's, Rias', or Vali's teams. For example if Shooting Star wins against Sairaorg and then goes to face Indra or Mahabali next and they defeat him, you really wouldn't see much of him.

I just wonder how you say Indra has been too hyped up in the story to lose his match against Mahabali. But then you say certain teams will win because we haven't seen much of them. Well we haven't seen much of Mahabali. And besides Indra being one of the Top 10 and being really hyped up as the most favored to win the tournament could be used to have him losing to Mahabali. Plus didn't Ishibumi say he wanted to focus on the young gods a bit and wouldn't Mahabali count as a young god?

Diehauser never had an arc. If you're talking about his involvement with Qlippoth, that wasn't really anything except an jntroduction. I really can't imagine Diehauser losing against Zeno though even with two Super Devils on the team.

With Cao Cao meeting Vali in the semifinals, I.just don't see it. They have already fought each other before and I don't believe Ishibumi will have him face opponents he already has fought before in the quarterfinals and semifinals.

With Ruval vs Typhon, I see them losing again to someone with the blood of Phenex.

With Dulio vs Tobio, I thought the same thing at first. Then I remembered something. Back in Volume 11, when Dulio was first mentioned by name, it was mentioned that Dulio was at the top of Vali's 'want-to-fight' list. And besides the fact that Tobio has his own series seems to me the reason why he shouldn't win. I don't think Tobio should really get a whole lot of attention in DxD because he has his attention as the MC in his own series, Slash Dog. And I just don't see a fight happening between them considering it has already happened. And also if Dulio lost while having Rudiger as his supervisor, it would be kind of disappointing. It just seems more interesting if Vali had to overcome the 2nd most powerful Longinus, a team of Brave Saints(who have both the advantages of their cards and the evil pieces due to the tournament, and having Rudiger as Dulio's supervisor. It seems more likely Vali would have to overcome all of that instead of Vali facing someone he has already fought before. I just see this one going to Dulio.

I agree with you about Vali winning against Sun Wukong. And I agree about Vali not losing to anyone unless It's Issei. But only in an individual fight sense,.not necessarily when it comes to a Rating Game.

In my view, I don't see both Issei and Vali making it to the semifinals.

I expect some major upsets out of those 8 matches. Especially Indra vs Mahabali, Diehauser vs Zeno, and Ruval vs Typhon.

But I can see Ishibumi covering two of the matches in the quarterfinals like in a DX volume.

Diehauser did have his arc with the Qlippoth. His introduction against Riser's team at the end of volume 18. His motivation of exposing the King Piece as well as avenging his cousin's death and we saw how strong he was when he was dominating Issei in volume 20. Furthermore we got some of his backstory about how he helped his family who suffered financially due to the constant wars. At this point we already know enough about Diehauser and his character doesn't need to be flushed out anymore than it already is. His story has come to an end. Volume 25 just showcases why he's the champion by defeating even God teams.

I see no reason why he needs to stay in the tournament. The new Super Devils are the main focus now since they are still a mystery.

[TommyG]

My predictions:

Sairaorg vs shooting star? Not sure on this one, I'd say shooting stsr so that he and his team can be further developed, however them losing could lead to them being bad guys which could develop their characters.

Indra vs Mahabali - Indra, he's a top ten god and a god of war. He's obviously weaker than Shiva but is still planning a war with him so I think that suggests something about his strategic skills.

Issei vs Rias - Issei, been discussed to death so just going to say, makes more sense story wise, power wise and strategy wise.

Diehauser vs Zeno? It depends on whether or not Zeno has Balberith and Verrine are on his team, if they have been removed so that the maou class devils can grow then i think Diehauser will win but if they are Zeno will win.

Cao cao vs Surtr - Surtr, that's a tough choice but I think Surtr will win because Cao cao has already played a large role in the story, both as a villain and on his path of redemption. Surtr has yet to play a role so I'd give it to him.

Ruval Phenex vs Typhon - Ruval, I think he has more to offer to the story, Typhon has been used to reveal Ddraig, hype Issei's power and cement Rossweisse in Issei's harem, Ruval could be used to show the significance of strategy (since every other one of my picks goes to the more powerful team) also with two of Ravels brothers on the team they could be used to cement her role in Issei's harem. Ruval's team also has the backing of Egypt so it could be used to expand the DxD world.

Dulio vs Tobio - Tobio, Tobio offers more to the story when he fights Vali, also as Slash dog is being released it can help hype that series.

Vali vs Sun Wukong - Vali, obvious reasons.

[Lex79]

I just wonder how you say Indra has been too hyped up in the story to lose his match against Mahabali. But then you say certain teams will win because we haven't seen much of them. Well we haven't seen much of Mahabali. And besides Indra being one of the Top 10 and being really hyped up as the most favored to win the tournament could be used to have him losing to Mahabali. Plus didn't Ishibumi say he wanted to focus on the young gods a bit and wouldn't Mahabali count as a young god?

When I say that characters we haven't seen much are going to win, I'm referring to characters I expect will have an important role in the story and need to be hyped and developed. This is the case for the super devils and the longinus users, not for Mahabali whose only role seems to be to be defeated by Balberith and Verrine to give credibility to their strength.

Diehauser never had an arc. If you're talking about his involvement with Qlippoth, that wasn't really anything except an jntroduction. I really can't imagine Diehauser losing against Zeno though even with two Super Devils on the team. And plus this won't be the last we see of Balberith and Verrine.

Blazor 98 answered perfectly to this point.

With Cao Cao meeting Vali in the semifinals, I.just don't see it. They have already fought each other before and I don't believe Ishibumi will have him face opponents he already has fought before in the quarterfinals and semifinals.

I simply don't see Surtr playing any major role in the story, plus Vali needs his revenge.

With Dulio vs Tobio, I thought the same thing at first. Then I remembered something. Back in Volume 11, when Dulio was first mentioned by name, it was mentioned that Dulio was at the top of Vali's 'want-to-fight' list. And besides the fact that Tobio has his own series seems to me the reason why he shouldn't win. I don't think Tobio should really get a whole lot of attention in DxD because he has his attention as the MC in his own series, Slash Dog. And I just don't see a fight happening between them considering it has already happened. And also if Dulio lost while having Rudiger as his supervisor, it would be kind of disappointing. It just seems more interesting if Vali had to overcome the 2nd most powerful Longinus, a team of Brave Saints(who have both the advantages of their cards and the evil pieces due to the tournament, and having Rudiger as Dulio's supervisor. It seems more likely Vali would have to overcome all of that instead of Vali facing someone he has already fought before. I just see this one going to Dulio.

To me it seems more interesting to have a big fight between Vali and Tobio, considering that we had a big fight between Issei and Dulio a few volumes ago. This could help developing Vali and make Tobio look cool, which in turn could help the sales of his own series.

[fan]

question does anyone know why Surtr joined the tournament . since surtr is a end of the world god

[The Infinite Dream]

Thought surtr is just an extremely powerful giant that just plays a roll in ragnarok by defeating freyr the brother of freyja wife of Odin. I wish she would make an appearance cause she would steal issei from all the girls and it would be funny. Lol

[fan]

in volume 25 Surtr is one of the reasons all of the other gods ran

[TommyG]

The infinite dream, I thought Surtr was a guy?