US Elections 2008

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by Goshin

well from what i understand, obama will give tax cuts to people making less than $250,000, he will raise taxes on those above that by 3% i believe, he will also give tx cuts to the businesses that keep jobs here in America.

all i know from Mcain is 5,000 tax credit to chose health care of your choice, and he taxes your health benefits, by counting their value as part of your income. tbh i have't researched much about his tax plans


my problem is that these guys especially obama are making promises that idk if he cna realistacally keep them because he will still need for congress to agree on his plans. so americans may be disappointed if the GOP controll senate, and i am sure they would give obama a hard time as president

Well, for right now, Democratic controls both Senate and HOR, they are about to get the 60 seats so they will have filibuster power, if Obama gets into office and those 60 seats are the Demo then it will be easier to pass any bills.

[solomon]

That would be good or bad dependent on your point of view of course

[Goshin]

I just know people will watch his every move and wait till he picks his nose then call him on it.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by Neki Ecko

Well, for right now, Democratic controls both Senate and HOR, they are about to get the 60 seats so they will have filibuster power, if Obama gets into office and those 60 seats are the Demo then it will be easier to pass any bills.

There is only a 30 something percent chance that the Dems will have a filibuster proof majority right now.

[Vexx]

Its not necessarily a "good thing" for any party to have total filibuster-proof control of both Houses and the Administration.

It tends to ignite the wingnuts of that party into action. If the Dems do get such control, I hope they remember 1994 and tread carefully.

[4Tran]

Obama's $150 million haul in campaign donations is just huge. To put things in perspective, the entirety of George Bush's 2004 campaign (previously the most expensive on record) was $~350 million. I originally thought that opting out of the public funds was a risky move, but it's obviously been an extremely good idea.

Powell's endorsement may have been predictable, but I found that the substance of his critique of McCain's campaign was particularly compelling. I'm especially pleased that he repudiated the anti-Muslim sentiments - it's a subject that should have never seen in the political discourse.

Originally Posted by Kyuusai

Considering that accusing Obama of being Muslim happens across party lines, I don't think that can be considered a reflection on a party. Most things that aren't party stances aren't reflections on the party, but accusations certainly make it easier to turn it into an argument.

While the "Obama is Muslim/Arab" story isn't confined to just Republican supporters, they do form the vast majority of those promoting it. And even when a position isn't a party platform, a strong correlation like this is not altogether meaningless.

Originally Posted by Phantom-Takaya

Not to hop away from the current conversation, does anyone have any information regarding both party's views of tax deductions? Mainly doing away with some and making new ones, and how this will work out in their tax plans?

A comprehensive analysis of the two candidates' tax plans can be found at the Tax Policy Center:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxto...candidates.cfm

The direct comparison is at http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxto...ues_matrix.cfm

And the change in taxation for unmarried individuals is at http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbe...cfm?DocID=1975

For families, it is at http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbe...cfm?DocID=1976

Washington Post has a handy graphic:

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Obama's $150 million haul in campaign donations is just huge. To put things in perspective, the entirety of George Bush's 2004 campaign (previously the most expensive on record) was $~350 million. I originally thought that opting out of the public funds was a risky move, but it's obviously been an extremely good idea.

Powell's endorsement may have been predictable, but I found that the substance of his critique of McCain's campaign was particularly compelling. I'm especially pleased that he repudiated the anti-Muslim sentiments - it's a subject that should have never seen in the political discourse.


While the "Obama is Muslim/Arab" story isn't confined to just Republican supporters, they do form the vast majority of those promoting it. And even when a position isn't a party platform, a strong correlation like this is not altogether meaningless.


A comprehensive analysis of the two candidates' tax plans can be found at the Tax Policy Center:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxto...candidates.cfm

The direct comparison is at http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxto...ues_matrix.cfm

And the change in taxation for unmarried individuals is at http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbe...cfm?DocID=1975

For families, it is at http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbe...cfm?DocID=1976

Washington Post has a handy graphic:

According to that image it looks like Obama is actually only looking to tax people who are making well above $250,000 so this really affects very few people...

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by Vexx

It tends to ignite the wingnuts of that party into action. If the Dems do get such control, I hope they remember 1994 and tread carefully.

And it will be a very big test for Obama's leadership and talent to see if he can keep his party in check in the face of a sweeping popular mandate as indicated by domination of the two particularly electable branches of government; one of the big unofficial jobs of the modern Presidency, IMO.

He will really have his work cut out for him. On one hand, the sweeping mandate apparent in the polls right now is for what people believe Mr. Obama is representing -- the change from the last eight years, cleaner politics, and reforms, even redefining the USA itself for some particularly idealistic people -- on the other hand, politicians like to interpret messages like this the way they want to, and the Democratic Party might as well very quickly assume that mandate for a younger, competent, charismatic, minority politician to take the mantle is mandate for the old Party to run wild.

Moreover, I foresee that the internal party conflict that has been swept under the rug right now will reappear when he takes office; you know, the same party machine that used to throw its support behind Hillary Clinton? Yeah. Old guards like Pelosi, Reed, and Clinton might as well dislike the idea of this young "upstart" being their leader and will want their "advices" heard, or pork to silence them, etc. Of course, it will indeed put an interesting spin on what Joe Biden could potentially do for his colleague in this matter.

...that is, if Obama actually wins this one. Despite the polls, I'm very worried that this foul negative campaigning game the McCain campaign is playing will actually works, or the Bradley effect that has apparently subsided in recent years will actually reappear (if it existed in the first place), or Obama got shot 1968-style because wingnuts actually believe he's a terrorist. And then we can witness a collective "lol, USA" from the rest of the world bigger than even the Bush years and the official end of Pax Americana.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

According to that image it looks like Obama is actually only looking to tax people who are making well above $250,000 so this really affects very few people...

Unless you're a supply-side economist, in which case you'll believe that this "taxing just the rich" will seriously slow down the economic activity of this group, creating a domino effect for the rest of the economy.

I happen to have a low opinion of supply-side economics, though; I'm far more convinced by Keynes that the MPC concept ("Marginal Propensity to Consume" how much more you'll actually spend if I give you an extra dollar to use) is for real and that it means tax cuts for the poor, or New Dealesque job programs (I like the better, more useful ones like, oh, "let's build infrastructure"), will actually do what the Bush tax cuts have failed to do...somewhat better, at least.

[Aquillion]

It's important to note that Obama's so-called "tax increase" on the rich is just allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire. That's all.

The Bush tax cuts were a bad idea. Everyone knows it now. Even McCain opposed them way back when. There are times when cutting taxes can help the economy in the short term, sure, but taxes under Clinton were already extremely low (among the lowest in the civilized world); cutting taxes at every single opportunity is not a viable economic policy.

[cors8]

Originally Posted by Aquillion

It's important to note that Obama's so-called "tax increase" on the rich is just allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire. That's all.

The Bush tax cuts were a bad idea. Everyone knows it now. Even McCain opposed them way back when. There are times when cutting taxes can help the economy in the short term, sure, but taxes under Clinton were already extremely low (among the lowest in the civilized world); cutting taxes at every single opportunity is not a viable economic policy.

I remember when McCain used to say how stupid it was to lower taxes in a time of war...

[karasuma]

Also, the main thing is our budget deficit is getting out of hand. If you cut tax, not spending and blow up the budget, that is call cheating. If I don't need to balance the budget, I can say free money for everyone and just let the young people and next generations pay them off later.

[Neki Ecko]

McCain Giving Up on Colorado
CNN reports that top officials of Sen. John McCain's campaign are "making tough decisions" as they now see Colorado, New Mexico and Iowa no longer winnable.

Instead, the campaign's "risky strategy" is counting on Florida, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Virginia, and a comeback in Pennsylvania.

The McCain campaign responds: "We see the race tightening both internally and in public polling. We are within striking distance in the key battleground states we need to win."

Great idea, give up on Colorado to go ahead a state that you are losing by double-digits, nice idea McCain

[Cherudim Arche]

Originally Posted by Neki Ecko

Great idea, give up on Colorado to go ahead a state that you are losing by double-digits, nice idea McCain

McCain sure likes coming up with suicidal strategies for certain states.

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by Dynames/ Virtue

McCain sure likes coming up with suicidal strategies for certain states.

Yep, it cant win the election without Colorado and New Mexico.

On a serious note, Obama is going to take some time off to see his grandmother that is serious ill right now in Hawaii for a couple of days. I hope that Madelyn Payne Dunham get well soon and it shows alot of character in Obama for doing this. I am glad to that I vote for him.

[Vexx]

Here in Oregon, everyone votes by mail.... we got our ballots in the mail today.
Last chance to convince me one way or another

[Aquillion]

Originally Posted by Neki Ecko

Great idea, give up on Colorado to go ahead a state that you are losing by double-digits, nice idea McCain

Not quite:

See here. They're not giving up on Colorado (or pulling advertising or anything), but a lot of people in the campaign feel they can't win it.

[mg1942]

You won't believe this...

Spoiler for :

I went to an early voting site today... .

Spoiler for :

..and voted for...

Spoiler for :

OBAMA!

Spoiler for :

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by mg1942

You won't believe this...

Spoiler for :

I went to an early voting site today... .

Spoiler for :

..and voted for...

Spoiler for :

OBAMA!

Spoiler for :

Are you serious about this, mg1942?

[SeedFreedom]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Here in Oregon, everyone votes by mail.... we got our ballots in the mail today.
Last chance to convince me one way or another

Vexx, can i start listing the billions of reasons to vote for obama?

[mg1942]

Originally Posted by Neki Ecko

Are you serious about this, mg1942?

Since the day I watched his keynote speech in 04



I feel like I'm drowning in the left-wing sentiments here. Not enough right-wing and (few) neutral parties to balance out the discussion. I did my best to fill the void