BayTSP using crawlers in order to obtain ip's from torrents and to send DMCA....

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Even if you have a static IP... if your system isn't on 24/7 - nothing really stops someone else from "borrowing" it while your system is down (unless the ISP has an active IP enforcer network monitor -- very unlikely). Almost all legal rulings to date refute the idea that IP=person.
However, the least-energy curve response (follow the guidelines) is best until the class action suits currently filed against the RIAA for their antics create some precedent.

I've always wondered about the thing with not being able to identify people by IP address. I would have thought any court accepting an "that wasn't my IP" defense would require you to show them your PC, which is probably a big disincentive to a lot of people out there who actually have a hard drive full of fansubs.

And like everyone else, I find the fact that Japanese producers will actually pay someone to notice foreign fans about downloading a show with no R1 completely insane since it makes no business sense whatsoever.

[chikorita157]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

The problem with BayTSP isn't their methods, it's their business model.

They essentially blackmail content companies into using their services, by telling gulliable accountants "Your TV program has been downloaded illegally a billion times! You just lost 4 billion dollar in revenue because of it! If you hire us we can lower that by 50, maybe even 80% and we'll only charge you 1 billion an episode! What a bargain, right?"

i.e. they use phantom math to make them believe that their services are saving companies money when all they are doing is reducing piracy (a little bit) without increasing sales.

BayTSP doesn't want piracy to stop. Hell, they want it to increase, because that'll make it just that much easier to sell their services. They are a bunch of crooks who have made a business selling snake oil to a dieing industry.

Yes, BayTSP's business model is flawed greatly and they are abusing the DMCA to do it. Also, not all ISPs will listen to BayTSP's threats because the ISP care more about their customers and cutting them off can make them lose their customers.

Piracy is not stealing because you aren't stealing a physical object nor it causes lost revenue because a sale wasn't made in the first place. File sharing is like sharing a music CD to a friend in that matter, but done electronically. BayTSP is just as bad as the MPAA and RIAA, but piracy is here to stay and why should they waste their effort to try and stop it with fruitless attempts of using DRM and sending DMCA notices that some ISPs won't care about... it doesn't make logical sense.. Instead, content companies should just focus on trying to license their product overseas or make it more accessible (meaning no region lock streaming) than waste their money on this witch hunt on people downloading unlicenced anime at the same time make money off of it...

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by chikorita157

Yes, BayTSP's business model is flawed greatly and they are abusing the DMCA to do it. Also, not all ISPs will listen to BayTSP's threats because the ISP care more about their customers and cutting them off can make them lose their customers.

There is no abuse of the DMCA here. This is exactly what the DMCA was meant to do. And all US ISPs will follow up on a valid, enforceable DMCA request. If they don't, they are then responsible legally in addition to the customer. (What they don't comply with is turning over any information because they are not required to. Just disable access to the infringing material.)

Instead, content companies should just focus on trying to license their product overseas or make it more accessible (meaning no region lock streaming) than waste their money on this witch hunt on people downloading unlicenced anime at the same time make money off of it...

Let me summarize it this way: MFI is going after people because they are basically stealing cable and hurting their deal with AT-X. There is no intention to make this available to others who haven't bought paid to watch it on that network. They have more to gain by doing this than making it available. It being unlicensed means nothing.
(I could easily make this a massive wall of text but I will stop here.)

[npcomplete]

With regards to boycotting, it hardly ever works for companies entrenched in an industry and for things things that existing customers could care less about (to be frank). That's like getting people to stop buying their Kraft Mac n' cheese in order to boycott Philip Morris.

The only effective and long term way around the problem is to have existing publishers die and new ones come in that won't deal with BayTSP and the like.

Originally Posted by bayoab

There is no abuse of the DMCA here. This is exactly what the DMCA was meant to do.

The real problem is the DMCA itself.

It almost makes me want to see all downloading stop.. then have the whole industry come crashing down in flames.

Let me summarize it this way: MFI is going after people because they are basically stealing cable and hurting their deal with AT-X. There is no intention to make this available to others who haven't bought paid to watch it on that network. They have more to gain by doing this than making it available. It being unlicensed means nothing.
(I could easily make this a massive wall of text but I will stop here.)

Yeah, like they're gonna increase AT-X viewers just by doing this... as if each downloader they stop automatically becomes a subscriber. Then it also doesn't make sense that they're targeting people outside of Japan

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by npcomplete

With regards to boycotting, it hardly ever works for companies entrenched in an industry and for things things that existing customers could care less about (to be frank). That's like getting people to stop buying their Kraft Mac n' cheese in order to boycott Philip Morris.

The only effective and long term way around the problem is to have existing publishers die and new ones come in that won't deal with BayTSP and the like.


The real problem is the DMCA itself.

It almost makes me want to see all downloading stop.. then have the whole industry come crashing down in flames.


Yeah, like they're gonna increase AT-X viewers just by doing this... as if each downloader they stop automatically becomes a subscriber. Then it also doesn't make sense that they're targeting people outside of Japan

Maybe BayTSP charges extra for geofiltering.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by npcomplete

Then it also doesn't make sense that they're targeting people outside of Japan

Often the concern is "reverse importation" of fansubbed material back to Japan. I've always found this implausible since raws are widely available regardless of subbing. Another, more plausible justification is protecting future revenues if the material gets an R1 license. Finally, there's just the simple belief that the material belongs to the copyright holder, and other people shouldn't be permitted to distribute copies illegally.

None of this has anything to do with the DMCA. It's applicability to file-sharing is the "safe-harbor" provision that enables ISPs to avoid being sued for infringing material being distributed by their customers. The law was originally envisioned in the context of web servers, where the ISP had no knowledge what kind of material their customers were distributing. It also covers the situations discussed here where the ISP has customers sharing files from machines connected to the ISP's network.

I have some minor objections to aspects of the DMCA "take-down" method, but it's fundamentally a reasonable application of "common-carriage" notions to hosting. It provides an avenue whereby the recipient of the notice can object to the infringement claim and even request that the material be restored to view pending a future court proceeding. It's especially important in cases where the infringing material is used for criticism and might be eligible for a "fair-use" defense.

The solution to a C+D letter in these cases is clear; stop sharing the program. You'll survive even if you can't watch Queen's Blade.

[Vexx]

Thanks, SeijiS, you beat me to it. The issue native Japanese companies have is "reverse importation". Japanese viewers don't have to subscribe to premium cable if they can get their fix over the internet (be it a raw or a sub). Obviously at some point, too few subscribers means the "black market" distribution collapses as well (no one to snap a raw). The authorities *do* go after raw uploaders in Japan -- though they've been rather ineffective at stopping it. Public Internet cafes make it almost impossible to catch anyone.

The "safe harbor" provision, though, is like some drug-induced wackjob version of "common carrier status" -- I would have much preferred that ISPs have to designate as "common carrier". I don't like the idea of a service provider also being a content pusher (Time Warner and Comcast) especially when they prefer their content come via cable broadcast packages rather than TCP/IP.

But until that happens, the DMCA take-down method is the most gentlemanly approach. Its like the old Native American practice of counting coup or paintball: I *could* have killed you, but didn't - you're in time out now.

OTOH, the new push for "3 strikes and we drop you as a customer" would break that truce - though ultimately I see it as completely against the interests of ISPs for whom the service is their prime revenue stream. The Time Warner/Comcast "content+service" business model would eventually shoot itself in the foot -- as they're also trying to do with their onerous version of metering (which has the primary purpose of keeping their cable package business model from becoming obsolete).

[Ryusiangel]

i been using mirc to get my stuff nobody has any issues with that? or is there anything new i should be worried bout?

[Vexx]

IRC protocols (mIRC is one of many ways to access IRC) are an old well-honed standby. It is impractical and costly to try and catch people using that (though not impossible). Either the xdcc-bot would have to be a honeytrap (in which case you're in the wrong channel anyway ) or they'd have to be sniffing traffic from within your ISP or the bot-server's ISP which means a warrant was issued and they are collecting enough packets to even know a particular file is being transmitted. There are other means but again, they're costly in terms of labor and time. No method is *completely* safe but direct download (http/ftp or irc-xdcc) is about as safe as it is going to get.
The bot server itself is probably the most at risk since anyone can tap a few files and use it as evidence that the bot was serving them. But that has its own host of challenges for them.

Basically, from the BayTSP perspective why bother when there are so many flies to catch in torrent clouds?

[AnimeKing503]

Originally Posted by geoflux

I received a nice little e-mail from my ISP (Cox Communications) that was forwarded from a company called BayTSP Inc claiming copy right infringement for torrenting Queen's Blade from here. Last time I checked, Queen's Blade was still unlicensed. Just thought I would let you guys know.

I've just received a C&D letter from Bay TSP for Queen's Blade as well. It took my college 4 weeks just to get back to me about this. I agree with everyone else though, if it not in the region yet I should have a right to sample it. I mean, if it is released in the region, then since I've sampled the series this will allow me to decide if I want to make the purchase of the said series.

[RaptorZX3]

i received 2 emails from Videotron's security service today, here's what it says:

Subject: Illicit Use of your Internet Access

Madam, Sir,

We received a complaint affirming that activities associated with your IP address may infringe intellectual property rights of a third party.

We would like to remind you that the reproduction of protected material constitutes an infringement to the exclusive right of its holder. This behaviour could expose you to legal action from this third party and to a judgment to pay damages. Generally, you must obtain the permission or
rights in order to reproduce any protected material.

Please note that Videotron will not take any action against you, but if legal actions were to be brought against you by the plaintiff, we would have no other alternative except than hold you responsible for any damages you may have caused. We thus ask you to cease any activity that may be considered an infringement of a third party’s intellectual property rights.

Here is the infringing material according to the complaint:

******
Evidentiary information:
Notice ID: 111718
Recent infringement timestamp: 2009-05-02T02:39:20.000Z
Infringed work: Queen's Blade
Infringing file name: [Russian-subs] Queen's Blade ~Rurou no Senshi~ - 01v2 [ENG](AT-X 960x720 x264 AAC)[6859EC8B].mkv
Infringing file size: 359126481
Protocol: BitTorrent
Infringing URL: http://nyaatorrents.info:3277/announce
Infringing IP address: (deleted by myself)
Infringing DNS name: (deleted by myself)

******

Because of privacy concerns, we cannot give any information regarding the plaintiff, as we do not provide any information to the plaintiff about you except if ordered by a court of law. If you want to know who the plaintiff is, you can search on the internet who is the copyright owner of the material referenced in the complaint.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Yours truly,


Internet Security
Vidéotron ltée

and another one later that day:

******
Evidentiary information:
Notice ID : 182632
Recent infringement timestamp : 2009-05-10T06:48:59.000Z
Infringed work : Queen's Blade
Infringing file name : [Russian-subs] Queen's Blade ~Rurou no Senshi~ - 05 [ENG](AT-X 960x720 DivX)[3B14CFC8].mkv
Infringing file size : 349725402
Protocol : BitTorrent
Infringing URL : http://toshokan.spb.ru/announce
Infringing IP address : (removed by myself)
Infringing DNS name : (removed by myself)

I called Videotron and they told me if i got this, it's because someone have the rights for this anime in Canada. So i want to know if it's true, is Queen's Blade licensed in Canada? Should i worry about that "infringement"?

And does that mean i would have to go in a StarBuck's Cafe or wherever there's a free wireless connection to download the remaining episodes?

[Vexx]

Methinks that BayTSP has overstepped its bounds if you're in Canada but I've not looked at the gritty details of the licensing to see if its North America or just the USA covered.

I do like the way Videotron handles it though.... "meh we got this you should know about it, eh?"

[RaptorZX3]

anyone use PeerGuardian because of anti-p2p groups now?

[Journeyman]

anyone use PeerGuardian because of anti-p2p groups now?

Me Though I harbor no illusions as to how much safety it gives you.

Those blocklists have be updated somehow. If BayTSP or any of other groups decides to gather information from new IP, it will take time to identify it, add it to the list and then make list available for all PeerGuardian clients to grab on next update.

Until all of that goes through, the number of "casualties" from new IP will be growing...

[RaptorZX3]

well it's like an antivirus, you're protected against new viruses when you have the latest definitions update.

[Journeyman]

well it's like an antivirus, you're protected against new viruses when you have the latest definitions update.

Sort of. What worries me is the fact that I, an ordinary PC user, can access those blocklists. If I can do it, anyone can, including these IP gatherers...
If I were to compare it with antivirus, it would be AVG I don't know where PeerGuardian is taking its blocklists from, but there are some hiccups every so often. Like BBC or Royal Bank of Scotland ending up blocked as anti-filesharing groups...



But even with all these flaws, it is worth keeping. Gives you time to get some experience and find other ways of avoiding the C&D letters.

[RaptorZX3]

that's why i mostly turn it on when i download torrents and other things, when i play online games, i turn it off

[RaptorZX3]

here's a screenshots of some blocked Anti-P2Ps on my PeerGuardian:



so it does seem to block BayTSP, i did downloaded Ep.7 and 8 of Queen's Blade and it seem to block BayTSP now.

[Ichihara Asako]

I was under the impression BayTSP just look at a list of peers on a torrent, they don't need to wait to connect to you. So if you're denying their connection, it means... nothing.

[Messerschmitt_Bf-109]

One reason I use streaming sites is because of things like this. And the fact I don't watch a show more than once, so I have no use to download it. What gets me is how anime is a hobby for those who have money. DVD prices are usually very high comparative to other entertainment types on DVDs. I don't make much money, and there is no way I could afford watching anime for very long. A streaming TV channel of some sorts would be better, but it would most likely cost quite a bit. If I could afford it, I would get a subscription of some sorts. Seeing as how a cheap way is not likely, anime/manga will be something I assume I will have to drop one day. Eventually streaming sites will go down, and I won't risk torrents(I have no idea how to use MIRC). Unless a streaming site is fairly cheap, this will be one hobby I will eventually have to cut.