AnimeSuki Forums

Lummie · 2011-01-01, 15:26

Let's see what's confirmed;

- 4 martial arts schools attempted to take his life leaving two masterclass martial artists aside. Said schools can come back anytime with more people.
- Jinie hinted that the alliance doesn't give a shit about his existence.
- Saehee will repeatedly be bothered because they know he can't lift a finger against them.

Even if he's not fully aware of how the Murim system works, there's a limit to being naieve, even in his situation where he thinks that he can cheerfully walk to school dismissing the fact that even Jinie won't be able to hold up much longer with stronger foes.

Shioon still has no powers? Fine, no prob, it's still acceptable after 11 chaps but that he keeps trying to convince himself that he's no longer part of the Murim [and won't be] despite the recent and upcoming future developments, is starting to get really annoying.

aliasxn · 2011-01-01, 16:04

I agree. It's not so much that he lost his ki, but the way he is emoing about it is what is annoying. There's no reason for him to stick with it out of loyalty because that's not really why his master did it. When Goomoryong destroyed his ki center he wasn't really thinking long term, it was all he could do to save his life in that situation.

KLGChaos · 2011-01-01, 16:12

That's exactly my problem with the while thing. The first part had him learning to fight and wanting to become stronger. Now, he's done a complete 180 and it doesn't make for a likable main hero, especially of an action manga. And I really don't want this to turn into one of those mangas with a useless male lead who let's all the hit girls around him do the fighting. There's too many of those as it is.

DarkLordOfkichiku · 2011-01-01, 16:41

Well, now, Shioon's problem is that he assuming too much here. Remember, he interpreted Goomoonryong's destroying of his ki-center as that Goomoonryong didn't want him to be a part of th emurim. That may or may not be so, actually, since Goomoonryong only did what he could to save Shioon back at the rooftop - he likely didn't think very long-term back then as you say. And really, I don't think he'd mind Shioon trying to get his power back so that he can defend himself or him turning to the Sunwoo clan for safety (after all, more than being a murim or not, he was always concerned about Shioon's safety and ability to live happily, so if either of those would provide that for Shioon, I don't think her'd mind).

Regardign the alliance, I don't think it's so much that they don't give a shit about him as that they have alrger problems to take care of. Alternatively, Kangsung may simply be as naive as Shioon hismelf is being here,assuming that the alliance's word that he's not to be killed and/or that no one shoulf be interested in killing a powerless, thrown away disciple...

As for what'll change his mind (if at all)? We'll see...

Shadow5YA · 2011-01-01, 17:03

I can see why Shioon didn't want to be a part of the Murim. The politics is a bit too complicated and someone like Shioon couldn't care less. He only picked up martial arts to fight for his own reasons. If he joins the Murim he'll just be cleaning up after the mess somebody else made. Shioon is involved, but at the same time it doesn't really have much to do with him as a person.

aliasxn · 2011-01-01, 17:39

I can understand why he wouldn't want to be a part of Murim, but when the alternative is death it isn't much of a choice. He is way past the point of no return, denial will only put him and his loved ones in danger, this should be obvious to him by now.

Kleeyook · 2011-01-01, 19:39

I hate it when the protagonist is the non-action guy with several action girls around him.

Just hope he'll do better soon, getting all powerful at the last chapter to beat enemies suck.

Shadow5YA · 2011-01-01, 19:41

Right now, Shioon doesn't really think that he'd die if he doesn't get involved. He sees it as a personal problem, and it was only recently that a civilian like Saehee got involved (which turned out to be a false alarm, anyway). Keep in mind that he still thinks the Alliance and the Sun Moon Clan are on his side.

With his woman still safe and no one else knowing about his involvement with the Murim, Shioon has no incentive to get involved with them again when there's really nothing he cares about on the line yet. Only when Goomoonryong shows up and tries to destroy his normal school life or Saehee gets put into real danger will Shioon step up, because right now he still thinks he has a choice.

Maybe it'd be a bit different if he was a seasoned fighter with a lot of experience fighting martial artists, but Shioon barely got involved in Part 1. He wasn't training in martial arts for his entire life like Goomoonryong; he got his talent through a magical pill and crammed for only a month. He has no obligation to the Murim, and he has no idea his ordinary life can be put in danger, especially with the "normal affairs and martial arts affairs stay separate" policy.

KLGChaos · 2011-01-01, 23:31

Given the persistence of the Murim people, what just happened with that one guy and all the stuff he went through, watching people die and kill each other, you'd think he'd wise up. He's just in complete denial and something bad's going to happen if he just stays that way.

Ukoku · 2011-01-02, 00:33

Most likely, it gonna take Jinie getting hurt for him to 'get his act together.'

DarkLordOfkichiku · 2011-01-02, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ukoku

Most likely, it gonna take Jinie getting hurt for him to 'get his act together.'

Well, either Jinie or Saehee at any rate. It seems like it always take someone he knows beong hurt that is needed to get him for him to start acting a bit indepently, sorta.

KrimzonStriker · 2011-01-02, 20:18

One thing I'd like to note in this riveting debate, the fact of the matter is Shioon himself does not place much value in his own life, which I thought would have been obvious after all his suicidal charges up till now, but perhaps that's too subtle now that he's lost his powers. Nevertheless, more often then not Shioon's actions are often a byproduct of either someonelse's effort or on their behalf, he has no direction of his own, an idea of what that may be, or an inclination to find out, even when he still had all his powers, he was simply going on blind faith and as we saw back then he could be extremely stubborn in his pursuit of it, hence why he continue to follow the path he believes Gyoon set for him. The same applies here, and which is why New Wave is a crucial step up from the previous Breaker. Because in this sense, rather then his body this time, what needs to be and is being trained at the moment is Shioon's spirit and mind. Which is why I think everyone should cool down for the time being about their complaints that all the previous progress from before is gone, in fact this is probably the first time real progress to actually be made to Shioon's character in the first place.

Bonta Kun · 2011-01-02, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

One thing I'd like to note in this riveting debate, the fact of the matter is Shioon himself does not place much value in his own life, which I thought would have been obvious after all his suicidal charges up till now, but perhaps that's too subtle now that he's lost his powers. Nevertheless, more often then not Shioon's actions are often a byproduct of either someonelse's effort or on their behalf, he has no direction of his own, an idea of what that may be, or an inclination to find out, even when he still had all his powers, he was simply going on blind faith and as we saw back then he could be extremely stubborn in his pursuit of it, hence why he continue to follow the path he believes Gyoon set for him. The same applies here, and which is why New Wave is a crucial step up from the previous Breaker. Because in this sense, rather then his body this time, what needs to be and is being trained at the moment is Shioon's spirit and mind. Which is why I think everyone should cool down for the time being about their complaints that all the previous progress from before is gone, in fact this is probably the first time real progress to actually be made to Shioon's character in the first place.

Problem is that was part of the old series, he was doing just that and then bam we have the reset and have to go through it again.
I always said this reset was bad and I still stand by that.

I miss my Veritas

KrimzonStriker · 2011-01-03, 03:50

You're not understanding my point at all quite frankly, he really hasn't changed all that much, before he was aimless and without any purpose, the only credit was that he found one in following Gyoon. But it still wasn't his own in the end, at most you can say he discovered a strong resolution to follow things through but that's it, so really how much can we say he's changed? This isn't a reset in my view, its a continuation of developing something that was always lacking in himself, hence why I think the shift from the martial aspect into the political realm is crucial.

Johnny · 2011-01-03, 04:45

Actually he kind of did have a reason of his own in the first one. He was getting his ass beat almost daily and didn't want to keep getting it beat. Toss in wanting to protect Saehee as well...

I'd say this new season he is just going with the flow aimlessly. Sadly it will take someone getting hurt before he decides to do something. He doesn't necessarily have to go to Sunwoo for the the help. Call it wild theory, but I think he'll get help from elsewhere. Don't ask me who though...

KrimzonStriker · 2011-01-03, 05:31

But wait, consider this, both those cases he followed peoples lead, the first because of Gyoon's strength and advise which inspired him and the other on behalf of Sahee. When in fact has he ever done something on his own initiative if you really think about it?

See that's the thing, beforehand other people gave him direction, goals, and purpose, without them he's stuck depending on their remnants, and given his past examples he follows them to the letter with no real inclination beyond that, even at the possible cost of his life, so really I don't think any of this should come as a real surprise to anyone in terms of character progression on Shioon's part.

Johnny · 2011-01-03, 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

When in fact has he ever done something on his own initiative if you really think about it?

Yeah, he blackmailed Gyoon on his own...

Shadow5YA · 2011-01-03, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny

Yeah, he blackmailed Gyoon on his own...

Only when those bullies told him they were going to make a move on Saehee. It still remains that he couldn't care less whether the Murim survives or dies. He only went there because his teacher, another person he cares about, was in danger.

Right now, Saehee is still perfectly fine and as clueless as ever, and Goomoonryong is also alive and probably doing whatever he wants to, and the little girl leader of the Sunwoo clan is also with her.

Unless Goomoonryong comes back and goes crazy or Saehee becomes a rape target again, Shioon doesn't care whether his martial arts abilities come back.

KLGChaos · 2011-01-04, 00:35

Yeah, and after 70 chapters of development in the first part, it's really disappointing to see that. Not really the type of manga hero you want to read about.

Anh_Minh · 2011-01-04, 02:10

Two things I wonder:
- who will fight Yoo Ji-Gun? Jinnie again? She doesn't seem to think she has a chance. Hyu So-Chun, so we can see if the rumors are true? Shioon?
- how is Shioon going to get out of this? Against Sera? I mean, even if he regains his power, the only attack he knows is the soul crushing strike. Can you picture him punching a girl in the face? With skull crushing strength? But if he doesn't... All he has is his own technique: the Puppy Dog Eyes. While it worked on Jinnie and Sosul (and he probably perfected it on Saehae before the series started), I don't think Sera's going to be susceptible.

2011-01-01, 16:04	Link #482
aliasxn Eye for an Eye Join Date: Apr 2008	I agree. It's not so much that he lost his ki, but the way he is emoing about it is what is annoying. There's no reason for him to stick with it out of loyalty because that's not really why his master did it. When Goomoryong destroyed his ki center he wasn't really thinking long term, it was all he could do to save his life in that situation. __________________

2011-01-01, 16:12	Link #483
KLGChaos The Shermain Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NY Age: 44	That's exactly my problem with the while thing. The first part had him learning to fight and wanting to become stronger. Now, he's done a complete 180 and it doesn't make for a likable main hero, especially of an action manga. And I really don't want this to turn into one of those mangas with a useless male lead who let's all the hit girls around him do the fighting. There's too many of those as it is. __________________

2011-01-01, 17:39	Link #486
aliasxn Eye for an Eye Join Date: Apr 2008	I can understand why he wouldn't want to be a part of Murim, but when the alternative is death it isn't much of a choice. He is way past the point of no return, denial will only put him and his loved ones in danger, this should be obvious to him by now. __________________

2011-01-01, 23:31	Link #489
KLGChaos The Shermain Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NY Age: 44	Given the persistence of the Murim people, what just happened with that one guy and all the stuff he went through, watching people die and kill each other, you'd think he'd wise up. He's just in complete denial and something bad's going to happen if he just stays that way. __________________

2011-01-02, 20:18	Link #492
KrimzonStriker Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	One thing I'd like to note in this riveting debate, the fact of the matter is Shioon himself does not place much value in his own life, which I thought would have been obvious after all his suicidal charges up till now, but perhaps that's too subtle now that he's lost his powers. Nevertheless, more often then not Shioon's actions are often a byproduct of either someonelse's effort or on their behalf, he has no direction of his own, an idea of what that may be, or an inclination to find out, even when he still had all his powers, he was simply going on blind faith and as we saw back then he could be extremely stubborn in his pursuit of it, hence why he continue to follow the path he believes Gyoon set for him. The same applies here, and which is why New Wave is a crucial step up from the previous Breaker. Because in this sense, rather then his body this time, what needs to be and is being trained at the moment is Shioon's spirit and mind. Which is why I think everyone should cool down for the time being about their complaints that all the previous progress from before is gone, in fact this is probably the first time real progress to actually be made to Shioon's character in the first place. __________________ "That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia

2011-01-01, 15:26	Link #481
Lummie Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009	Let's see what's confirmed; - 4 martial arts schools attempted to take his life leaving two masterclass martial artists aside. Said schools can come back anytime with more people. - Jinie hinted that the alliance doesn't give a shit about his existence. - Saehee will repeatedly be bothered because they know he can't lift a finger against them. Even if he's not fully aware of how the Murim system works, there's a limit to being naieve, even in his situation where he thinks that he can cheerfully walk to school dismissing the fact that even Jinie won't be able to hold up much longer with stronger foes. Shioon still has no powers? Fine, no prob, it's still acceptable after 11 chaps but that he keeps trying to convince himself that he's no longer part of the Murim [and won't be] despite the recent and upcoming future developments, is starting to get really annoying.

2011-01-01, 16:41	Link #484
DarkLordOfkichiku Senior Member Join Date: May 2008	Well, now, Shioon's problem is that he assuming too much here. Remember, he interpreted Goomoonryong's destroying of his ki-center as that Goomoonryong didn't want him to be a part of th emurim. That may or may not be so, actually, since Goomoonryong only did what he could to save Shioon back at the rooftop - he likely didn't think very long-term back then as you say. And really, I don't think he'd mind Shioon trying to get his power back so that he can defend himself or him turning to the Sunwoo clan for safety (after all, more than being a murim or not, he was always concerned about Shioon's safety and ability to live happily, so if either of those would provide that for Shioon, I don't think her'd mind). Regardign the alliance, I don't think it's so much that they don't give a shit about him as that they have alrger problems to take care of. Alternatively, Kangsung may simply be as naive as Shioon hismelf is being here,assuming that the alliance's word that he's not to be killed and/or that no one shoulf be interested in killing a powerless, thrown away disciple... As for what'll change his mind (if at all)? We'll see...

2011-01-01, 17:03	Link #485
Shadow5YA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	I can see why Shioon didn't want to be a part of the Murim. The politics is a bit too complicated and someone like Shioon couldn't care less. He only picked up martial arts to fight for his own reasons. If he joins the Murim he'll just be cleaning up after the mess somebody else made. Shioon is involved, but at the same time it doesn't really have much to do with him as a person.

2011-01-01, 19:39	Link #487
Kleeyook Yandere maniax Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Somewhere close to Valhalla Age: 34	I hate it when the protagonist is the non-action guy with several action girls around him. Just hope he'll do better soon, getting all powerful at the last chapter to beat enemies suck.

2011-01-01, 19:41	Link #488
Shadow5YA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	Right now, Shioon doesn't really think that he'd die if he doesn't get involved. He sees it as a personal problem, and it was only recently that a civilian like Saehee got involved (which turned out to be a false alarm, anyway). Keep in mind that he still thinks the Alliance and the Sun Moon Clan are on his side. With his woman still safe and no one else knowing about his involvement with the Murim, Shioon has no incentive to get involved with them again when there's really nothing he cares about on the line yet. Only when Goomoonryong shows up and tries to destroy his normal school life or Saehee gets put into real danger will Shioon step up, because right now he still thinks he has a choice. Maybe it'd be a bit different if he was a seasoned fighter with a lot of experience fighting martial artists, but Shioon barely got involved in Part 1. He wasn't training in martial arts for his entire life like Goomoonryong; he got his talent through a magical pill and crammed for only a month. He has no obligation to the Murim, and he has no idea his ordinary life can be put in danger, especially with the "normal affairs and martial arts affairs stay separate" policy.

2011-01-02, 00:33	Link #490
Ukoku Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Age: 34	Most likely, it gonna take Jinie getting hurt for him to 'get his act together.'

2011-01-03, 03:50	Link #494
KrimzonStriker Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	You're not understanding my point at all quite frankly, he really hasn't changed all that much, before he was aimless and without any purpose, the only credit was that he found one in following Gyoon. But it still wasn't his own in the end, at most you can say he discovered a strong resolution to follow things through but that's it, so really how much can we say he's changed? This isn't a reset in my view, its a continuation of developing something that was always lacking in himself, hence why I think the shift from the martial aspect into the political realm is crucial. __________________ "That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia

2011-01-03, 04:45	Link #495
Johnny Working the bags... Join Date: Mar 2009	Actually he kind of did have a reason of his own in the first one. He was getting his ass beat almost daily and didn't want to keep getting it beat. Toss in wanting to protect Saehee as well... I'd say this new season he is just going with the flow aimlessly. Sadly it will take someone getting hurt before he decides to do something. He doesn't necessarily have to go to Sunwoo for the the help. Call it wild theory, but I think he'll get help from elsewhere. Don't ask me who though...

2011-01-03, 05:31	Link #496
KrimzonStriker Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	But wait, consider this, both those cases he followed peoples lead, the first because of Gyoon's strength and advise which inspired him and the other on behalf of Sahee. When in fact has he ever done something on his own initiative if you really think about it? See that's the thing, beforehand other people gave him direction, goals, and purpose, without them he's stuck depending on their remnants, and given his past examples he follows them to the letter with no real inclination beyond that, even at the possible cost of his life, so really I don't think any of this should come as a real surprise to anyone in terms of character progression on Shioon's part. __________________ "That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia

2011-01-04, 00:35	Link #499
KLGChaos The Shermain Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NY Age: 44	Yeah, and after 70 chapters of development in the first part, it's really disappointing to see that. Not really the type of manga hero you want to read about. __________________

2011-01-04, 02:10	Link #500
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	Two things I wonder: - who will fight Yoo Ji-Gun? Jinnie again? She doesn't seem to think she has a chance. Hyu So-Chun, so we can see if the rumors are true? Shioon? - how is Shioon going to get out of this? Against Sera? I mean, even if he regains his power, the only attack he knows is the soul crushing strike. Can you picture him punching a girl in the face? With skull crushing strength? But if he doesn't... All he has is his own technique: the Puppy Dog Eyes. While it worked on Jinnie and Sosul (and he probably perfected it on Saehae before the series started), I don't think Sera's going to be susceptible.