Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 3 Discussion / Poll

[wissenschaft]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

I actually like that aspect as well, giving it the 08th MS Team vibes where the Gundams are simply slightly more powerful MS instead of the god-like mecha we're commonly used to. Gundams being ultra-powerful war machines works in premises like those of Wing and 00, but for a series like this the Gundam simply being a unique-looking antique works better.

Even at its best Crank and Eins don't express awe at the Gundam Barbatos itself, but rather at the actions of the pilot, and of course they're more surprised that the CGS has mobile suits at all, rather than said mobile suit being a Gundam.

Futhermore, they even show surprised that such an antique mobile suit is being used in battle. I hope to see Barbatos grow in power as more and more tech is scavenge off the battlefield.

[Twi]

The suit is 300 years old. If I was in a Grave my first question would be how they kept that antique running so long before he kills a few of my squad-mates. Afterwards, my question would be, how do I avoid being killed by this mace coming my way?

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by bumbayker

I like how the Gundam isn't anything special in this show.

Relative to a lot of other Gundams in other shows, probably not yet but background story wise the Gundams are supposedly capable of high output because they have the parallel Ahab Reactors system thingy. It also mentioned that keeping the reactors in synch is difficult and a good reason why not many Gundams were made. My guess is that output is going to increases eventually.

My feeling is that it would get that eventually especially given how the world was badly damaged 300 years ago and the Gundams were only deployed late on in hat war, anime logic dictates a high probability that the Gundams caused it.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by wissenschaft

Futhermore, they even show surprised that such an antique mobile suit is being used in battle. I hope to see Barbatos grow in power as more and more tech is scavenge off the battlefield.

I hope to see that too. So far one advantage of not having the Barbatos being OP is that Mika's feats and victories can be a testament to his piloting skills rather than just bbeing about having a powerful Mobile Suit.

[monster]

Originally Posted by the one above all

So far one advantage of not having the Barbatos being OP is that Mika's feats and victories can be a testament to his piloting skills rather than just bbeing about having a powerful Mobile Suit.

It's both. It's always been about both. You need a tool that can do the job and you need to be able to use the tool properly.

And don't forget that Mikazuki's piloting skill is aided by his connection to the mobile suit via those surgeries he's had.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

I actually like that aspect as well, giving it the 08th MS Team vibes where the Gundams are simply slightly more powerful MS instead of the god-like mecha we're commonly used to. Gundams being ultra-powerful war machines works in premises like those of Wing and 00, but for a series like this the Gundam simply being a unique-looking antique works better.

Even at its best Crank and Eins don't express awe at the Gundam Barbatos itself, but rather at the actions of the pilot, and of course they're more surprised that the CGS has mobile suits at all, rather than said mobile suit being a Gundam.

I'm enjoying this aspect a lot too.

One thing I'm certainly not missing from previous shows is how often the "new mecha" makes a huge splash on debut and seem godly... and then become pretty ordinary in an episode or two. Seemed like marketing was driving the story too much. Not getting that sense from this series at all.

[Skaddix]

Originally Posted by monster

It's both. It's always been about both. You need a tool that can do the job and you need to be able to use the tool properly.

And don't forget that Mikazuki's piloting skill is aided by his connection to the mobile suit via those surgeries he's had.

Yeah but lately we have seen one gundam tear through dozens of other mecha at the same time. Mika is not doing that. U dont get to see how great the pilot is when their gundamn utterly outclasses the competition where the other guys might as well have bows and arrows while the protag is rolling in with an Abrams tank.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Yeah but lately we have seen one gundam tear through dozens of other mecha at the same time. Mika is not doing that. U dont get to see how great the pilot is when their gundamn utterly outclasses the competition where the other guys might as well have bows and arrows while the protag is rolling in with an Abrams tank.

You can see how great of a pilot they are by how well they operate those powerful machines. In fact, this very episode reaffirms the purpose of getting those back surgeries were to allow these kids to better pilot the machines. That's what it's all about, pilot and machine working together.

A one-sided battle may take away the entertainment value for some people, but it doesn't take away the pilot's achievement in operating a powerful machine. Similarly, an even match doesn't take away the value of the machine.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

One thing I'm certainly not missing from previous shows is how often the "new mecha" makes a huge splash on debut and seem godly... and then become pretty ordinary in an episode or two.

IIRC there is no such thing as Gundam making a huge-splash debut then become ordinary in just one or two episodes. If there is, please name the Gundam series that do that. The Gundams either overpowered the other mechs for a good dozen of episodes (more or less) until the enemies can catch up to the Gundams’ technology and spawning powerful MSs that can rival the said Gundams (like in MSG, Zeta, ZZ, Wing, 00, AGE, etc), or the Gundams are more or less the same level as the enemies’ MSs from the get go (like in Victory, 08th MS Team, 0083, etc). SEED (& Destiny to some extend) is a rare series where the Gundams are truly overpowering other MS models (partly thanks to PSA and the likes) from beginning to the end of the series. The only way to equally fight a Gundam in SEED is to deploy another Gundam (even Wing still has Tallgeese, Vayeate & Mercurius that can rival the Gundams).

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

IIRC there is no such thing as Gundam making a huge-splash debut then become ordinary in just one or two episodes. If there is, please name the Gundam series that do that. The Gundams either overpowered the other mechs for a good dozen of episodes (more or less) until the enemies can catch up to the Gundams’ technology and spawning powerful MSs that can rival the said Gundams (like in MSG, Zeta, ZZ, Wing, 00, AGE, etc), or the Gundams are more or less the same level as the enemies’ MSs from the get go (like in Victory, 08th MS Team, 0083, etc). SEED (& Destiny to some extend) is a rare series where the Gundams are truly overpowering other MS models (partly thanks to PSA and the likes) from beginning to the end of the series. The only way to equally fight a Gundam in SEED is to deploy another Gundam (even Wing still has Tallgeese, Vayeate & Mercurius that can rival the Gundams).

00 Gundam comes to mind--its debut had it stunningly crush two opponents, shooting an Ahead so hard that almost half of it disintegrated, in a single blast. It bisected a GN-XIII through its own lance, cutting said lance in half cleanly down the middle.

And then its performance went average to bad until it got the 0-Raiser.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

00 Gundam comes to mind--its debut had it stunningly crush two opponents, shooting an Ahead so hard that almost half of it disintegrated, in a single blast. It bisected a GN-XIII through its own lance, cutting said lance in half cleanly down the middle.

And then its performance went average to bad until it got the 0-Raiser.

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[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

TL;DR…

 

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1) In episode 3, the Rescue Allelujah operation, the 00 did very little of note--it killed two Tieren at most before flying into a building, where it stayed for almost the entire remainder of the show. After Setsuna got back into it, he only fired a few blasts to scatter some enemies, and didn't hit any of them. Then in the next episodes, it killed the Trilobyte, then got thrown about by Graham's Ahead, and was interrupted before it could do anything to change the course of the battle. Then it doesn't get used in battle until episode 6, where it fares poorly against that same Ahead, and is forced to use Trans-Am to get the upper hand, and then even that fails. Its next sortie sees it thrashed, but given that it's Saachez he's fighting against then, I'll give it a pass.

Really, up until it got the 0-Raiser upgrade, the 00 Gundam did nothing really spectacular except for its debut, where it, I repeat, vaporized half of an Ahead in a single blast. A feat never repeated with the base weaponry ever again.

2) Normally I'd agree, but due to the second season format, season 2 is written and depicted in a way that follows beginning-of-show Gundam formula, as generally speaking when the protagonist gets the upgraded Gundam he still has the skills to back up and generally requires an enemy ace with an equally powerful machine to keep the tension up. Setsuna's starting performance in the second season is instead a little lackluster, much like early Gundam protagonist performances (when they're still rookies). So mid-series upgrade or not, I feel the 00 Gundam counts.

3) I was just giving an example. Overall you're correct, as the full shows that preceded IBO came in two flavors: the protagonist Gundam either continued to perform amazing feats (Build Strike and Build Burning Gundams), or didn't perform that spectacularly in their starting battle (Gundam AGE-1 Normal, where the impressiveness was that he managed to kill an until-then unkillable opponent at all). Before that, it was the 00, which fit Kari's claim, and the Exia, which was more along the lines of the Build Strike's performance.

[Skaddix]

Does BUild Strike count as dominating early? They got rekt by Tatsuya.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Does BUild Strike count as dominating early? They got rekt by Tatsuya.

Still had a phenomenal fight against Gonda while under-equipped, and still managed a pretty slick move in warding off Tatsuya before he was trounced. And then still did really well, battle-wise, in every fight after that point. It counts.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

1) In episode 3, the Rescue Allelujah operation, the 00 did very little of note--it killed two Tieren at most before flying into a building, where it stayed for almost the entire remainder of the show. After Setsuna got back into it, he only fired a few blasts to scatter some enemies, and didn't hit any of them. Then in the next episodes, it killed the Trilobyte, then got thrown about by Graham's Ahead, and was interrupted before it could do anything to change the course of the battle. Then it doesn't get used in battle until episode 6, where it fares poorly against that same Ahead, and is forced to use Trans-Am to get the upper hand, and then even that fails. Its next sortie sees it thrashed, but given that it's Saachez he's fighting against then, I'll give it a pass.

Really, up until it got the 0-Raiser upgrade, the 00 Gundam did nothing really spectacular except for its debut, where it, I repeat, vaporized half of an Ahead in a single blast. A feat never repeated with the base weaponry ever again.

2) Normally I'd agree, but due to the second season format, season 2 is written and depicted in a way that follows beginning-of-show Gundam formula, as generally speaking when the protagonist gets the upgraded Gundam he still has the skills to back up and generally requires an enemy ace with an equally powerful machine to keep the tension up. Setsuna's starting performance in the second season is instead a little lackluster, much like early Gundam protagonist performances (when they're still rookies). So mid-series upgrade or not, I feel the 00 Gundam counts.

3) I was just giving an example. Overall you're correct, as the full shows that preceded IBO came in two flavors: the protagonist Gundam either continued to perform amazing feats (Build Strike and Build Burning Gundams), or didn't perform that spectacularly in their starting battle (Gundam AGE-1 Normal, where the impressiveness was that he managed to kill an until-then unkillable opponent at all). Before that, it was the 00, which fit Kari's claim, and the Exia, which was more along the lines of the Build Strike's performance.

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So yeah, Kari-no-Sugata. As you can see, there is no such trend of Gundam that curbstomp opponents in its debut then suddenly turned ordinary in the next episode or two. As Rising Dragon suggested, there’s only one solid example (more or less) that match your statement, and one (or two) example(s) cannot be described as “often”.

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Does BUild Strike count as dominating early? They got rekt by Tatsuya.

Tatsuya & his Amazing Zaku is world-championship material. Certainly not the same as facing goons. That's like if Wing already have to battle Tallgeese or Mercurius in episode 2-6 in Gundam Wing show.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by wissenschaft

Futhermore, they even show surprised that such an antique mobile suit is being used in battle. I hope to see Barbatos grow in power as more and more tech is scavenge off the battlefield.

About that I hope that as they had to plan how to survive financially, they will note they need to look for some abandoned strongholds of the previous war to find out some power-up packs or just spare parts. I'd prefer it instead of having Kudelia's benefactor make them (mary-)popping out of his bag.
It would be a nice detail they could take care of. And I'm expecting them doing so.

[Benigmatica]

Damn, those kids just took out most of the First Group by killing them (except for two people).

On the other hand, it's sad that Crank Zant was defeated and handed his death sentence to Mikazuki Augus. He'll surely be missed!

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

Damn, those kids just took out most of the First Group by killing them (except for two people).

Actually, it's the other way around. They only shot-to-death two people from 1st Group as examples, keep the accountant, and also keep Todo coz he was willing to work with the 3rd Group. As for the rest of the 1st Group members, well, they were provided some choices which are: 1) to keep working on CGS but under the 3rd Group, 2) to leave the CGS and received their due payment or 3) to be shot dead. Sane people from 1st Group will not choose to 3rd option, while pride and bad-blood might prevent many of them to choose the 1st option. So that leaves the 2nd option which I guess taken by the majority of them.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

Damn, those kids just took out most of the First Group by killing them (except for two people).

Eh, pretty sure most got out alive with severance pay given by Orga.