Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 3 Discussion / Poll

[Skaddix]

Well Orga is the leader of course he has good people skills and long term planning skills (severance packages for the kids who wanted to leave sure but for the first group and not just killing them all but worried about negative reviews?).

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Thess

So? She didn't object at all when Orga send Mika. You're still dancing around the issue, she consciously made a choice to endanger his young life in hiring them for a dangerous mission anyway.

I was trying to raise one small point only but it seems I wasn't clear enough.

Within the story, I don't have any problem with Kudelia having the courage to take decisions which means that children will fight and possibly die. Her resolve clearly took a knock with the sudden death of dozens of children and her father betraying her. Seems like she's got it back (and more) now.

Here's my first ever comment on her, back in episode 1:

Aina might seem a bit bland at first but I see a lot of potential in her. Though she doesn't actually do much in the episode (making it easy to overlook her) she has clearly been active. In fact, she's dangerous enough that her own father sold her out! She's considered the figurative leader of the independence movement already. She is young and naive but she knows she has a lot of learn and is trying. There's a lot of things she's not - she's not some hopeless romantic, she's not preaching, she's not stuck-up or easily offended/annoyed etc. Though she was shocked at the possibility of being killed she quickly got over it and offered to help. I hope she is developed well as she could become an excellent female lead.

It'll be interesting to see how she reacts to finding out her father sold her out. If she deals with it reasonably well then I'm going to bet on the following: she finds out without him realising it until too late and at some point Gjallarhorn will take him hostage and threaten to kill him unless Aina surrenders. I would bet that Aina refuses to surrender and then Gjallarhorn are in a real pickle (assuming they did it publicly) since if they back down they look weak and stupid and if they go ahead and kill him then that'll turn all the city lords on Mars against them. In short, I'll bet that it won't be the daughter's death that becomes an "icon" of Mars independence but daddy's instead. And when that happens I'll consider it poetic justice and laugh.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Thess

So...? He was suicidal in his attack to the kids and for absolutely NOTHING but his own personal honor. He didn't think of any of the kids or how his unit would benefit from this. Because he'll just be replaced and he only delayed the inevitable. As for his superiors, there's an inspection going on right now, he could have easily ratted them out and at least die for a more noble cause. He chose this way to go, but this didn't benefit anyone except for Crank himself. He never took risks, he never talked about this with his people, he only satisfied his own sense of ego.

This is why it's contrasted to Orga's actual good leadership, one that's not founded on a misguided and selfish sense of honor, one that takes chances and looks at the future and actually seeks to improve and change. That's probably why he gets along with Kudelia, he feels responsible too. He also talks to his men: Mika, his pals, even the 'slaves' (human debris) opinion mattered. He took everything into consideration. Crank simply didn't want to listen Ein, he didn't talk to anyone of his unit.

I don't think Crank is a bad person, but his actions will do more hurt than good. He was misguided and he was obviously foiling Orga here.

That... doesn't really spare the kids, though. He only wants to save his own sense of honor and conscience, in his misguided, delusional intentions, he just made them more an enemy of his organization. He just didn't want to deal with the fact he killed kids.

You don't even listen what Crank himself said. if he won, he would fulfill primary objective of his superiors and kids would not be obstacle anymore. Letting them go would be possible. Loosing "wasn't option" means he did not even considered to give away his life for honor sake. It means his death would me meaningless. he went there to win not escape through dying.

So? She didn't object at all when Orga send Mika. You're still dancing around the issue, she consciously made a choice to endanger his young life in hiring them for a dangerous mission anyway.

They are mercenary, they will endanger their life with or without her, reason why she hired Tekkaden is to help them to survive not to kill them. Don't forget by that time Orga already refused give up on Kudelia they already became enemy of Gjallarhorn.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

You don't even listen what Crank himself said. if he won, he would fulfill primary objective of his superiors and kids would not be obstacle anymore. Letting them go would be possible. Loosing "wasn't option" means he did not even considered to give away his life for honor sake. It means his death would me meaningless. he went there to win not escape through dying.

They are mercenary, they will endanger their life with or without her, reason why she hired Tekkaden is to help them to survive not to kill them. Don't forget by that time Orga already refused give up on Kudelia they already became enemy of Gjallarhorn.

I'm actually not too sure about they can be letting go if they give up on Kudelia, remember ??? the commander was ordering that all witness to be eliminated, Sure he might agree with Crank on the spot, but i doubt he truly plan to let goes of Mika and co. In fact, i think that, the very moment when they were aware that the attacker is Gjarllarhorn they no longer have an option beside fight against them.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

You don't even listen what Crank himself said. if he won, he would fulfill primary objective of his superiors and kids would not be obstacle anymore. Letting them go would be possible. Loosing "wasn't option" means he did not even considered to give away his life for honor sake. It means his death would me meaningless. he went there to win not escape through dying.

Is Gjallarhorn going to stop attacking with his death? No? Did you forget he was ordered to wipe out all witnesses? Maybe you should refresh your mind. Then he did this out of nothing but a meaningless sense of honor and personal pride and because he couldn't stomach his own actions. His men would probably get affected anyway and forced to battle the group. We know Ein's not going to drop from the show, he's in the opening.

He didn't do this because he's a good leader, but because he was a sentimental proud old man who had misguided good intentions but a stupid sense of 'honor'. He's not the leader Orga is, who actually does think about his men and consults them, and he's willing to take real risks to change the situation for real, not to make himself feel better.

Tongue in cheek episode title. That's why Mika simply killed him and forgot about him.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

They are mercenary, they will endanger their life with or without her, reason why she hired Tekkaden is to help them to survive not to kill them. Don't forget by that time Orga already refused give up on Kudelia they already became enemy of Gjallarhorn.

Do you think I'm attacking Kudelia? I think her decision to consciously have children fight for her sake is a good one. I don't think she's morally superior to anyone in the Tekkaden group though. That's probably is the point if she wants to shake hands with Mika one day.

[Router25]

Tekkaden? That kinda sounds like

Spoiler for franchise relation:

Something ELSe ehehehhe

[Psyco Diver]

I'm getting a distinct Heero Yuy/Relena Peacecraft vibe from Mika and the Princess

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Psyco Diver

I'm getting a distinct Heero Yuy/Relena Peacecraft vibe from Mika and the Princess

Mika isn't threatening to kill Kudelia every opportunity he gets

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Mika isn't threatening to kill Kudelia every opportunity he gets

Probably a good thing, that. He's proving quite more effective at pulling that trigger than Heero.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Mika isn't threatening to kill Kudelia every opportunity he gets

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Probably a good thing, that. He's proving quite more effective at pulling that trigger than Heero.

LOL yeah, but let’s face it, Heero never really wanted to kill Relena. That’s why he kept on making such empty threats to her. Heck, maybe that’s his way of saying “I love you” or “Hey, you look hot today” .

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

I'm actually not too sure about they can be letting go if they give up on Kudelia, remember ??? the commander was ordering that all witness to be eliminated, Sure he might agree with Crank on the spot, but i doubt he truly plan to let goes of Mika and co. In fact, i think that, the very moment when they were aware that the attacker is Gjarllarhorn they no longer have an option beside fight against them.

Crank couldn't give any guarantee, that much is true, but if they handed Kudelia, there would be room for negotiation at least. Not just Crank but kids too were aware of that option as their chance for survival and if Orga didn't decide overrule that notion they might just do it, even without duel.

Originally Posted by Thess

Is Gjallarhorn going to stop attacking with his death? No? Did you forget he was ordered to wipe out all witnesses? Maybe you should refresh your mind. Then he did this out of nothing but a meaningless sense of honor and personal pride and because he couldn't stomach his own actions. His men would probably get affected anyway and forced to battle the group. We know Ein's not going to drop from the show, he's in the opening.

He didn't do this because he's a good leader, but because he was a sentimental proud old man who had misguided good intentions but a stupid sense of 'honor'. He's not the leader Orga is, who actually does think about his men and consults them, and he's willing to take real risks to change the situation for real, not to make himself feel better.

Tongue in cheek episode title. That's why Mika simply killed him and forgot about him.

Of course Gjallahorn will not stop attacking with his death. You should rewatch this episode. Crank came there to WIN duel not to die. Loosing was not option for him, because that would mean death sentence for kids. Plan was beat Mika, get Kudelia and negotiate on Dekkaden behalf. Dying wouldn't help anyone.

Crank isn't leader Orga is. No one is. That doesn't his values are inferior or that he made stupid choice. True fact is he took real risk and that's why he died without archiving anything. Not everyone can be winners and it doesn't matter how good or capable loosers were. Only thing that matter is they were beaten by someone better. It would be same for Orga if Mika didn't win.

But yes he didn't do it because he was good leader, he did because he was good person.

Do you think I'm attacking Kudelia? I think her decision to consciously have children fight for her sake is a good one. I don't think she's morally superior to anyone in the Tekkaden group though. That's probably is the point if she wants to shake hands with Mika one day.

No I don't think you attacking her and I am aware you meant it in good way... just you don't exactly understand her motivation and overall standpoint in whole affair. but to be honest I do think she is morally superior than lot of people in Dekkaden. One doesn't have luxury to be moral when fighting for own survival. Rember there was plenty of people who would just hand her down to Gjallahorn without hesitation. Which would be in matter of fact pretty good choice... just not morall one.

[Skaddix]

Crank is not in charge he cant guarantee trade for Kudelia and will leave you alone so Orga was right.

His boss basically said kill everyone leave no witnesses giving up Kudelia gets them nothing.

[QSTraderDG86]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

LOL yeah, but let’s face it, Heero never really wanted to kill Relena. That’s why he kept on making such empty threats to her. Heck, maybe that’s his way of saying “I love you” or “Hey, you look hot today” .

Lulz. Yeah, Heero ultimately *wasn't* a cold-blooded no-fucks-given killer. Heck, how little of a body count did he even rack up? He mostly just trashed legions of mobile dolls with the Wing Zero...otherwise, yep, that would have been a massacre. Ultimately, Wufei was lucky Heero was throwing the fight, otherwise, welp, RIP Wufei.

And yeah, Mika's a lot more trigger-happy than Heero.

As for the episode...mmm...decent, I suppose. Crank was indeed going on a suicide mission. Thinking you're going to 1v1 the Gundam? Cool story, bro.

Kudelia isn't useless, but I doubt she's going to be giving Mika his mid-series upgrade, or jacking a capital ship (Lacus...can't ever have enough Lacus), but we'll see.

Either way, while mars is a pretty badass place, none of the characters so far really amaze me. I suppose it's just that they're all fairly undeveloped, Mika's a Heero/Setsuna knockoff (and the Heero-wannabe iteration was never as cool as the original), Orga's somewhat interesting, but doesn't have the badass fighting skills to go along with the leadership aspect, and I'm hoping Kudelia still does epic things. Still, having a crush on Mika? Come on, you can do better than *that*!

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by QSTraderDG86

Lulz. Yeah, Heero ultimately *wasn't* a cold-blooded no-fucks-given killer. Heck, how little of a body count did he even rack up? He mostly just trashed legions of mobile dolls with the Wing Zero...otherwise, yep, that would have been a massacre. Ultimately, Wufei was lucky Heero was throwing the fight, otherwise, welp, RIP Wufei.

Kudelia isn't useless, but I doubt she's going to be giving Mika his mid-series upgrade, or jacking a capital ship (Lacus...can't ever have enough Lacus), but we'll see.

Either way, while mars is a pretty badass place, none of the characters so far really amaze me. I suppose it's just that they're all fairly undeveloped, Mika's a Heero/Setsuna knockoff (and the Heero-wannabe iteration was never as cool as the original), Orga's somewhat interesting, but doesn't have the badass fighting skills to go along with the leadership aspect, and I'm hoping Kudelia still does epic things. Still, having a crush on Mika? Come on, you can do better than *that*!

BS, Heero had more than enough of a body count to be considered a mass murderer. He killed plenty of OZ soldiers in the first 1/3 of the show and plenty more before (along with other people during his training and before Operation Meteor

Lacus fanboy much? She seriously does not need to do any of those things to be a good character/important to the plot

Mars is a badass place? Seriously? Its a hellhole from everything we've seen so far. Even in other Gundam series anything to do with it usually involves a giant mess

Mika's still a developing character and he has plenty of traits that set him apart from the others, calling him a knockoff is lazy thinking at best

Orga needs "badass fighting skills to go along with the leadership aspect"? What the actual F***?! Im at a loss for words.....

Kudelia, WILL do epic things, thats for sure, but probably not the "epic" things you seem to be looking for. Also sometimes its the smallest things that matter the most

[bumbayker]

I like how the Gundam isn't anything special in this show.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by QSTraderDG86

Lulz. Yeah, Heero ultimately *wasn't* a cold-blooded no-fucks-given killer. Heck, how little of a body count did he even rack up? He mostly just trashed legions of mobile dolls with the Wing Zero...otherwise, yep, that would have been a massacre. Ultimately, Wufei was lucky Heero was throwing the fight, otherwise, welp, RIP Wufei.

And yeah, Mika's a lot more trigger-happy than Heero.

Uh, don’t get my comment wrong though. I’m not siding with Heero (nor Mika). Both of them have flaws.

Spoiler for Gundam Wing's plot points:

And speaking of body counts, so far, Heero still left Mika in the dust. Beside the 5 kills that we’re shown, Mika also destroyed a number of enemy MWs. On the other hand, how many military facilities and factories full of people that Heero blew up? And don’t forget that he also obliterate a shuttle full of pacifists. Heck, in episode one, Heero was more than willing to shoot down a space shuttle full of civilians (Relena & her “dad” was inside of it too) just because it was in his way (thank god for Zechs). So, early in the series, Heero is even more ruthless than Mika. Remember, Heero was never nice to anybody (he was even rude to Relena early on), but Mika already show care and compassion to others this early on (see how he attentively asked his friend about the wound on his face during meal, how he asked Yukinojo about how many of his comrades died, how he cherished Atra’s gift, and heck, he’s even being nice to Kudelia by tolerating her less-than-stellar cooking). Heero didn’t kill Relena coz he found her strangely attractive (I guess?), and she’s not really his official target. Compared that to how he eliminated his designated targets and you’ll find him just as cold-blooded as Mika (if not more).

So yeah, when it comes to comparing and analyzing characters from other series, I’d rather take off my nostalgia glasses and give my fair judgment (huge fan of Wing here, as that was my first Gundam).

[QSTraderDG86]

Originally Posted by Skye629

BS, Heero had more than enough of a body count to be considered a mass murderer. He killed plenty of OZ soldiers in the first 1/3 of the show and plenty more before (along with other people during his training and before Operation Meteor

Lacus fanboy much? She seriously does not need to do any of those things to be a good character/important to the plot

Mars is a badass place? Seriously? Its a hellhole from everything we've seen so far. Even in other Gundam series anything to do with it usually involves a giant mess

Mika's still a developing character and he has plenty of traits that set him apart from the others, calling him a knockoff is lazy thinking at best

Orga needs "badass fighting skills to go along with the leadership aspect"? What the actual F***?! Im at a loss for words.....

Kudelia, WILL do epic things, thats for sure, but probably not the "epic" things you seem to be looking for. Also sometimes its the smallest things that matter the most

I am *indeed* an unapologetic Lacus fanboy. Pink princess of the universe FTW! As for Orga...yeah, he has the leadership, but it'd be even more awesome if he rekt someone in a mobile suit.

As for Mars being a badass place, what I meant was that the only way to survive there for a long time is to be a badass. It's a world of badass, so to speak, precisely *because* it's a hellhole.

And I'm hoping for epic Kudelia things indeed.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by QSTraderDG86

I am *indeed* an unapologetic Lacus fanboy. Pink princess of the universe FTW! As for Orga...yeah, he has the leadership, but it'd be even more awesome if he rekt someone in a mobile suit.

As for Mars being a badass place, what I meant was that the only way to survive there for a long time is to be a badass. It's a world of badass, so to speak, precisely *because* it's a hellhole.

And I'm hoping for epic Kudelia things indeed.

A world of badass implies that everyone within it is some awesome badass. This is not the case. Mars is just a shithole, plain and simple, with most of the people in it being damn unlucky simpletons. There are very few badasses witnessed so far.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by bumbayker

I like how the Gundam isn't anything special in this show.

Yet

So far the only ppl who have experience with the machine are simply ppl who know nothing about them, I would assume that higher-ups and higher social classes (especially engineers or those educated well in history) will recognize it for what it is.

Based on the CGS website too it seems one of the members of CGS (think it was Hojo? this was posted on another thread) have an inkling of what they are based on some docs/images he found in a scrapyard

Originally Posted by QSTraderDG86

I am *indeed* an unapologetic Lacus fanboy. Pink princess of the universe FTW! As for Orga...yeah, he has the leadership, but it'd be even more awesome if he rekt someone in a mobile suit.

As for Mars being a badass place, what I meant was that the only way to survive there for a long time is to be a badass. It's a world of badass, so to speak, precisely *because* it's a hellhole.

And I'm hoping for epic Kudelia things indeed.

Honest you are at least lol

While it would be cool for Orga to fight, IMO its unnecessary, we have had plenty of good commanders who never fought personally yet did epic things (Bright Noa for instance). Who knows though, he may sortie in the future under dire circumstances

Poor choice of words then to describe Mars, its easy to misinterpret if all you say is "Mars is a badass planet", which even then, sounds odd

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by bumbayker

I like how the Gundam isn't anything special in this show.

I actually like that aspect as well, giving it the 08th MS Team vibes where the Gundams are simply slightly more powerful MS instead of the god-like mecha we're commonly used to. Gundams being ultra-powerful war machines works in premises like those of Wing and 00, but for a series like this the Gundam simply being a unique-looking antique works better.

Even at its best Crank and Eins don't express awe at the Gundam Barbatos itself, but rather at the actions of the pilot, and of course they're more surprised that the CGS has mobile suits at all, rather than said mobile suit being a Gundam.