2017-02-09, 10:44 | Link #941 | |||||
The Mage of Four Hearts
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 33
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I recently participated in a conversation with a gentleman on another site, who professed to be a longtime Green Party supporter who voted for Clinton this time around. When asked why, he responded that he did not see the point of voting Green, not just because of the imminent danger posed by Trump, but because of the fact that in his estimation, the Green Party had not accomplished much of anything throughout the time he had been affiliated with them, so he believed the party as a whole was simply unready for power. While I am not an American, I live in a country where there are only two viable political parties. There are third parties, but frankly, I would say the same of them. While I acknowledge the difficulties present in the political system for third parties, I can't really in good conscience vote for a party that doesn't seem to have prepared themselves for actually taking power. Quote:
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I must say, you seem to have this idea that the Republican and Democratic Parties are immutable objects, when history and current events show that simply isn't true. Personally, I think working to change the two main parties is more efficient than hoping that a third party will someday buck the system.
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Last edited by Endscape; 2017-02-09 at 11:20. |
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2017-02-09, 10:52 | Link #942 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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That doesn't negate the intention of the framing of that amendment. Even the issue of slavery is still within the context of protecting the people (that mattered at that time anyway) against potential "abuse" from the government. Likewise, the issue of a standing army is in the context of a republican government, thus it's about protecting the people from a corrupt military leader who might try to overtake the government of the people through force. That's probably also why the commander-in-chief and the Secretary of Defense are both a civilian office. |
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2017-02-09, 11:05 | Link #943 | |
Sekiroad-Idols Sing Twice
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@ monster Ummm, yes. Check my post that frivolity responded to
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2017-02-09, 11:11 | Link #944 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2017-02-09, 13:27 | Link #946 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: A city with a small mountain in the middle
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The Chicago case shows the wide disparity in views between city folks and countryside boys. And that's not even saying that the neighboring states, which are very rural, also has very lax gun laws. It's a real shame that people can't get on the same page to fight the problem at the roots. Last edited by Toukairin; 2017-02-09 at 13:38. |
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2017-02-09, 13:59 | Link #947 | |
Sekiroad-Idols Sing Twice
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As for why a universal background check hasn't been passed yet, that's on congressional Republicans. Taking money from NRA leaders tends to make lawmakers not do anything the NRA doesn't want them to do (though I should stress I'm moderate on the issue because I know firearms are part of a lot of life styles: hunting, firing ranges, protecting yourselves from bears when you're hiking in the woods, hunting the lochness monster...) One more thing to note: it's not a matter of our lawmakers not being able to get on the same page so much as it is competing special interests conflicting with each other. There are going to be philosophical differences, of course, but adding one corporation that pulls Republicans in one direction and adding another business that pulls Democrats in another direction creates more gridlock than is healthy. When they do agree with each other, it's to screw over the American people outright or push them 10% in the right direction. Gun laws are just one side effect of the greater disease of legalizing corporate money into the political system
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Last edited by Akito Kinomoto; 2017-02-09 at 14:13. |
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2017-02-09, 15:08 | Link #948 | |||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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If you really want to dethrone one of the big two parties, you need to start small and work your way up. You can't change the mind of a nation in one go, and you can't convince them to put their fate into the hands of a party that's never proven itself. But on a small scale, a town or something, you can. Once you've succeeded at that, try to: 1. hope your newly elected officials do a good job, to showcase not only your ideology but your people. 2. build a virtuous (this being politics, I use the term reluctantly) circle of notoriety and money. Make more and more people think that it's ok to vote for your guys, and like I said, work your way up. Attract some professional talent. Surprisingly, politics isn't some unskilled job anyone can do. It's not fun, I know. Not as fun as dreaming of winning it all in one go, with little effort. You'd better dream of winning the lottery. No matter who the President is, as a millionaire I think you'll do all right (as long as you don't let it go to your head and lose everything). (Or, you know, you could try to influence one of the big parties to change, but it isn't all that easier.) Quote:
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2017-02-09, 16:45 | Link #949 |
#1 Akashiya Moka Fan
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You know, for all the debate we go on in this thread about the billion little nuances of politics... it's taken far too long for me to realize a simple truth of humanity that's been true since the end of the barter system, and this era is proving it the best: Money is Power. We all talk about a President who we can relate to should be in office, but in addition to what's in the Constitution, there's another one (especially since apparently Mark Zuckerburg is thinking about it): You have to be a billionaire.
And for all those grassroots campaigns? the only way they work is if they have millions or billions in funding. It seems that now, the only way you can even begin to change the country is by havong millions or billions... and what percentage of the population has that kind of money?
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2017-02-09, 16:54 | Link #950 |
Nope.
Fansubber
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Elsewhere
Age: 31
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I don't have the time or proper mindset right now (remember, I'm mentally unhealthy thanks to America's awful society and culture :^)) to post a response to every single one of you arguing with me. You don't understand the meaning of chance. You don't understand what it takes to change. You don't understand anything at all but status quo and 👻scary monsters👻. If Trump is really a devil then let him ruin the US. It deserves it for what it's done, and for its political weakness.
Nobody who voted for a third party candidate, in ANY state, did anything wrong. You're the ones in the wrong for perpetuating the "lesser of two evils" mindset. Those are the facts. That's the truth.
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2017-02-09, 17:42 | Link #951 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2017-02-09, 17:50 | Link #952 |
Part-time misanthrope
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Wrong?
Chance: 3rd parties had 0% chance of winning the presidential election. Yes, zero. Change: Did voting for 3rd party in the presidential election change something? Anything? No. The point isn't that people support the status quo. Nor that they necessarily dislike 3rd parties. It's not even that 3rd party voters are wrong in what they support. It's that these voters wanted to achieve something but effectively took themselves out of the decision process when they had the choice of participating in it and then absolve themselves of being accountable for getting Trump who irrefutably is the worse choice between the two of them. I argued myself with many of those who think along these lines whether or not it was irresponsible to vote 3rd party and in the end we settled to disagree over that point and let it rest but that doesn't change that those voters share a responsibility for the result. |
2017-02-09, 18:01 | Link #953 | |
Sekiroad-Idols Sing Twice
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That's right. We know compromise is a thing. You can stop accusing us of going "well if we put the pixie dust on this everything will be aaall better!" But what are you going to accomplish if you're compromising up-front (like Hillary or Obama)? The compromise of the compromise. Dafuq? Hillary and her supporters screwed this up for everybody when we kept telling them how not to, every step of the way. And now more than ever, we need to save ourselves. We need Justice Democrats You can be an ally within (JD) or outside (3rd Party), but don't actively get in the way #JusticeDemocrats
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2017-02-09, 18:30 | Link #955 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
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The court decided not to lift the suspension to Trump's travel ban.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38927175 |
2017-02-09, 18:31 | Link #956 | |
Marauder Shields
Join Date: Sep 2012
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Federal appeals court maintains suspension of Trump’s immigration order
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Last edited by Dauerlutscher; 2017-02-09 at 18:31. Reason: too late^^ |
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2017-02-09, 18:47 | Link #957 | |||
Nope.
Fansubber
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Elsewhere
Age: 31
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No, because it's the truth. I wanted to emphasize it.
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Most of what I'm hearing in terms of arguments here is "la la la, I don't hear you because this is this way! Sometimes I am so clever I don't even know what I'm talking about!!" Too bad most of the people I'm arguing with are either so far left they have no self awareness and the rest are Australians who don't have to actually deal with this crap. Just go away.
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2017-02-09, 19:19 | Link #959 |
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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Nah, he's telling you guys to stop getting off to your pretentious hoity-toity comments and reflect upon what you're saying. He's voting for who best represents his own views, this is how the election process is supposed to work. His responsibility is to vote, it's not to pander to the ideologies of others.
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Last edited by Demi.; 2017-02-09 at 19:29. |
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