Fate/ Series Q&A

[AC-Phoenix]

So whats the exact difference between Pseudo Servants like Jeanne d'Arc Ruler and Ishtar?
It feels like there is a difference, in the way the work, might be just me though and there is no difference at all.

[GDB]

Jeanne in Apocrypha is basically no different from a Pseudo Servant who took complete control. But the level of control varies from complete (Jeanne in Apo), a mix (Ishtar), to basically not existing (Zhuge Liang).

That said, I believe Zhuge Liang is the only one who isn't 50%+ in control, because he's just too lazy and decided to leave it all to Waver.

[Random14]

Jeanne in Apocrypha is a strange case anyway.

Spoiler for Apocrypha:

I think normally Jeanne can manifest on her own, the problem in Apocrypha was that the Ruler spot was still taken by Amakusa which is why Jeanne had to borrow someone for the war. Something like that, I think.

Many of the other pseudo-servants we see are Divine Spirits that are too powerful normally to fit into a Servant container (Euryale and Stheno are an exception as really weak Divine Spirits), so they instead use someone else as a vessel, someone with a compatible nature and a connection to a holy grail (war). And the host is usually pushed aside by the stronger Divine Spirit but often its a merger rather than complete loss of control.

No idea why Zhuge Liang is a pseudo-servant, I thought he was just human. But then most pseudo-servants are mainly just excuses to bring in popular characters from previous Fate works anyway.

[GDB]

I don't think a connection to the war is necessary, it's just that like you said most are just excuses to bring in popular characters.

That said, they don't have to be divine.

Spoiler for List of non-divine Pseudo Servants in JPN:

Jeanne (in Apo, not in FGO), Zhuge Liang, Sima Yi, Muramasa, and Rasputin are all examples. If we don't include Jeanne, that's about a third of the pseudo servants in the game being non-divine.

[maximilianjenus]

Is not galahad a pseudo servant too ?

[GDB]

No, that's a demi-Servant.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by GDB

No, that's a demi-Servant.

Demi-Servant: a servant summoned into a living human. Ex: Mash and possibly the Ainsworth summons from Prisma.

pseudo servant: A heroic spirit possesses a compatible being to limit/boost them selves to get around a summoning Limitation. Both beings are summoned together . Ex: Zhuge Liang , Lobo Orion/Artimis, Muramasa, ganesha, Kuro, Abby.

ganesha is also less than 50% in control but that's because he's even more of a Neet than his host.

[AC-Phoenix]

So... regarding the Death Apostle Ancestors:

Was them not existing as an organization in Fate retconned? Some reasons why I believe that to be the case:


Primate Murder for example, got referenced by Avenger, so we know that he is active. However, if Primate Murder is Primate Murder, then it likely also belongs to Altrouge, which seems to be the main difference between PM and

Spoiler for Major FGO spoiler:

Fou/Cath Palug, when he is Merlin's pet/familiar

Moreover, with the exception of /GO, the fate universe seems to be the perfect ground for PM to exist. GO seems to be the anomaly here, where everything went pretty much the perfect way for humanity.

Then, in Melloi Case files we see the Forest of Einmashe, meaning Einmashe himself also exist.

We see another DA, who is presumable also a DAA, in /Zero too, when Kiritsugu shoots him down along with the plane.
ORT too got referenced at some point, and lets not forget about Zeltrecht, who is a confirmed DAA

The general assumption, as to why they don't exist as an organization i, /Fate, seems to be, that they can never form their organization in a world where Servants exist. All the Church and the Mage association would have to do is summoning a Servant to take care of them.
And yet , there is a gaping hole in this argument in the form of Ilyasviel von Einzbern:
When she summoned Berserker, a few months before the grail war even started, she had to supply all the mana he used on her own.
Now from the original VN, we know that Ilya originally wasn't very close to Herakles at all and in fact kind of hated him as every single move he made caused her enormous pain.
Now, lets keep in mind that we aren't talking about a Magi with a normal amount of Mana here, but Ilya, whose circuits shocked even some talented mages.

Long story short: We know that summoning a Heroic Spirit without a grail helping the Master isn't an easy feat, and that it would put a lot of stress on the Master's body. Leaving only Pseudo and Demi Servants as an option.

Now to the Holy Church: Exorcists and Executors still exist, despite being not really needed when you can just throw a Servant against the DAs instead.
But if the various sub-departments in the Holy Church exist, they'd automatically rank each DA according to the level of threat they pose.

Another point is that there are DAAs who could probably tank Excalibur, such as PM and probably everything from Rank 10 upwards.

All this kinda brings me to the solution that they still exist as an organization, but just try not raising as much attention as they do in Tsukihime.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

The general assumption, as to why they don't exist as an organization i, /Fate, seems to be, that they can never form their organization in a world where Servants exist. All the Church and the Mage association would have to do is summoning a Servant to take care of them.
And yet , there is a gaping hole in this argument in the form of Ilyasviel von Einzbern:
When she summoned Berserker, a few months before the grail war even started, she had to supply all the mana he used on her own.
Now from the original VN, we know that Ilya originally wasn't very close to Herakles at all and in fact kind of hated him as every single move he made caused her enormous pain.
Now, lets keep in mind that we aren't talking about a Magi with a normal amount of Mana here, but Ilya, whose circuits shocked even some talented mages.

A few things to note:

• As a Berserker, he naturally takes more mana than normal Servants.
• As Heracles, he's a top tier Servant, so his mana requirements are likely much higher (this is why Gilgamesh summoned "weaker" Servants for the most part in Babylonia, because otherwise he wouldn't have the mana to sustain them).
• Fate/Zero showed that magi can pool their mana for a single Servant.

Also, we know that humans who go on to become Heroic Spirits have the ability to kill DA. I know we got a short story where Dantes killed one or two of them, for example.

That's not to say DA don't exist, they just never organized.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by GDB

A few things to note:

• As a Berserker, he naturally takes more mana than normal Servants.
• As Heracles, he's a top tier Servant, so his mana requirements are likely much higher (this is why Gilgamesh summoned "weaker" Servants for the most part in Babylonia, because otherwise he wouldn't have the mana to sustain them).
• Fate/Zero showed that magi can pool their mana for a single Servant.

Also, we know that humans who go on to become Heroic Spirits have the ability to kill DA. I know we got a short story where Dantes killed one or two of them, for example.

That's not to say DA don't exist, they just never organized.

Them not having organized being illogical is kind of my point. We don't have a single reference of Servants being summoned outside of grail wars being a usual thing, and yet that being the case would be the only other solution than " They just keep a lower profile". The list in itself also seems to be something the Church created, rather than they made themself.

Going by the anime's outro we also can't be absolutely certain about how many Servant's Gilga has summoned up to that point. He is also in a different position than Ilya, or even the Mage Association, given he has a Holy Grail.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Going by the anime's outro we also can't be absolutely certain about how many Servant's Gilga has summoned up to that point. He is also in a different position than Ilya, or even the Mage Association, given he has a Holy Grail.

We know from the game that he summoned Benkei, Ushiwakamaru, Leonidas, Amakusa Shirou, Ibaraki Douji, Fuuma Kotarou, and Tomoe Gozen.

Also not positive, but pretty sure it was said he never used the grail.

[kagato3]

Gill wouldn't need the Grail he's a demigod from the age of gods where the amount of mana in the air is enough to kill even the most powerful of modern magi by smothering them.

As for the DAA it's been stated that Human Order is too strong for the group to exist in timelines that allows for the summoning of servants. And if the Moon Cell exist then it is unclear if Type Moon can exist and therefore Altrouge.

[maximilianjenus]

Did we ever get a "good version" of heracles?

I mean, there is the berserker one, and in strange fake he is not heracles but alcydes.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

Did we ever get a "good version" of heracles?

I mean, there is the berserker one, and in strange fake he is not heracles but alcydes.

My guess is that they are saving him for a Grand Servant. My guess is Grand Saber

[AC-Phoenix]

So.. While playing FGo I realized something what happened to..

Spoiler for Scene from First Order:

The scene where Mash technically dies right before Fuyuki

in the game?

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

So.. While playing FGo I realized something what happened to..

Spoiler for Scene from First Order:

The scene where Mash technically dies right before Fuyuki

in the game?

She never died The spirit that was with in her finally allowed her to use more of it's power as it had pretty much been keeping her alive for a decade and they were Ray shifted before the smoke fully overcame them both.

[AC-Phoenix]

So a CCC question, after I saw the scene in question...

Why do people actually think the nine-tailed fox in it is Amaterasu? She is is introduced as "????:" the entire time, and at least the translated text leaves a lot of room for it actually being nine-tails Tamamo, rather than Amaterasu.
I mean, it also leaves room for the nine-tails there being Amaterasu, but is there a specific reason why people don't just think that's tamamo somewhen before cutting her tails?

[Tenzen12]

Probably

Bigger=more important