AnimeSuki Forums

Solachinx · 2010-08-18, 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judoh

However we also know a couple of things from episode 1. Without George marking Maria's rose Maria would have never received the letter.

OH YEAH! That's true, you see the lasst time I played the game was about in May and it was at the part at thr portrait; back then I wasn't trying to solve it and was doing it for entertainment, but now I'm more interested in the mystery part.

It's true that that's a bit suspicious, so I'll make a note of it, but then again it could just have been an accident. Then again, everything in a mystery can be taken as one thing or another. I guess I'll have to get further into the story to start pointing at one specific person ^^;

**Klashikari** · 2010-08-19, 08:36

I just hope people will finally stop posting ulterior episode spoiler in specific thread... Isn't that hard to just post the said speculation or observation in the thread of the episode that contributed to this train of thought?

These threads are used as grounds of thought and opinions for people who are lagging behind or wish to see the thought progression (be it because of the anime, or by curiosity).

TehChron · 2010-08-20, 19:45

Why do we assume that Battler is the Detective in this episode?

Doesn't he disqualify himself when he shoots at that magically regenerating Golden Butterfly, and then witnesses aforementioned regeneration?

Judoh · 2010-08-20, 20:26

You're remembering it wrong. Battler never shot a gun in episode 1.

Natsuhi sees butterflies and shouts at someone the narration says appeared in the form of Butterflies and they have a duel. All Battler did was threaten the person in front of the portrait later. And he doesn't actually shoot the gun he got from Natsuhi. The clock turns to midnight and the game ends with him being laughed at.

LyricalAura · 2010-08-20, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I just hope people will finally stop posting ulterior episode spoiler in specific thread... Isn't that hard to just post the said speculation or observation in the thread of the episode that contributed to this train of thought?

These threads are used as grounds of thought and opinions for people who are lagging behind or wish to see the thought progression (be it because of the anime, or by curiosity).

It's probably a lost cause. Nobody bothers to read the rules on the first page, so there's this mistaken perception that the EP1 thread allows any discussion of EP1 content regardless of whether the clues came from a later game or not.

On the other hand, the rules are kind of schizophrenic about whether the episode threads can be used for theory-building or not, so there's not a clear place for people to theorize when they can't use Spoilers and Speculations.

Dlanor .A. Nox · 2010-08-20, 23:25

Only the anime shows Battler shooting the gun but even then the anime isn't exactly the best source for FACTS.

TehChron · 2010-08-21, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dlanor .A. Nox

Only the anime shows Battler shooting the gun but even then the anime isn't exactly the best source for FACTS.

That's true, but hasn't Ryukishi also stated that there are a lot of tips to be found in the anime with relation to the corresponding episodes, that aren't mentioned in the VN? Perhaps the butterfly thing is one of those?

Meltyred · 2011-06-29, 13:28

Sorry to necro this thread, but I have another theory (which I did not think was said after browsing through all pages)

Spoiler for Theory of muders:

There were 2 sets of culprits, one was one of the 4 whose faces were smashed and is a Ushiroumiya blood relation.(will explain later)
Next is none other than Kinzo himself.
Firstly, the 1st 6 murders, this might be as what a few other members suggested, a fight broke out and such, and so the rest can be left to our imaginations and such.What is known, however, is that out of the "dead" people, 4 could have been switched and 2 of them fits my theory.
As to who could be the substitute dead body, it could be even the ship captain. (who knows?)
Next, Kinzo causing the murders with the remaining culprit and causing 7 of the deaths. He could easily send the letters, have the servants and nanjo be his accomplices (even if they did get killed, also makes what kannon said sound more believable). This basically enables him to create the closed room scenario of Eva and Hideyoshi's deaths and managed to get out after.
So what was Natsuhi saying when she said she talked to Kinzo? Well, nanjo's line when he was being susupected let me think that she could possibly be slightly insane and see hallucinations, which would also explain her frequent headaches.
Now moving on, "Kinzo's" body. That could easily be the other culprit, according to my theory and also Kinzo does have a motive, basically killing everybody else to revive Beatrice. Another thing that would identify Kinzo as the corpse would be his key, which was left there on purpose to give the illusion that Kinzo was indeed dead. (Most likely at that time nobody was in the right state of mind to question why his key was so conveniently found there. (Genji might have realised it but he is always on Kinzo's side so it doesn't matter.)
Moving on, Natsuhi's death. It was said that the guns were merely a collection so it could have been possible that Kinzo had shot Natsuhi with the same model yet different gun and merely replaced it.
About Nanjo, Kumasawa and Genji's death, Kinzo could have simply gotten in with the master key or anything, as the bodies of Shannon and Gohda weren't checked.Which would also explain why Maria said that one of them was shocked (saying something like "it can't be". Maria could easily be fooled into saying that Beatrice was disguised as Kinzo, and seeing as Maria has showed signs on not having common sense and also due to her wishing for witches to exist so much she could have easily accepted it.
Only thing I haven't really figured out is the marks on Natsuhi's door, of course it could be another sign of her insanity.
So according to this theory, the list of culprits narrow down to
Rosa/Rudolf and Kinzo

LyricalAura · 2011-06-30, 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meltyred

Sorry to necro this thread, but I have another theory (which I did not think was said after browsing through all pages)

Spoiler for Theory of muders:

There were 2 sets of culprits, one was one of the 4 whose faces were smashed and is a Ushiroumiya blood relation.(will explain later)
Next is none other than Kinzo himself.
Firstly, the 1st 6 murders, this might be as what a few other members suggested, a fight broke out and such, and so the rest can be left to our imaginations and such.What is known, however, is that out of the "dead" people, 4 could have been switched and 2 of them fits my theory.
As to who could be the substitute dead body, it could be even the ship captain. (who knows?)
Next, Kinzo causing the murders with the remaining culprit and causing 7 of the deaths. He could easily send the letters, have the servants and nanjo be his accomplices (even if they did get killed, also makes what kannon said sound more believable). This basically enables him to create the closed room scenario of Eva and Hideyoshi's deaths and managed to get out after.
So what was Natsuhi saying when she said she talked to Kinzo? Well, nanjo's line when he was being susupected let me think that she could possibly be slightly insane and see hallucinations, which would also explain her frequent headaches.
Now moving on, "Kinzo's" body. That could easily be the other culprit, according to my theory and also Kinzo does have a motive, basically killing everybody else to revive Beatrice. Another thing that would identify Kinzo as the corpse would be his key, which was left there on purpose to give the illusion that Kinzo was indeed dead. (Most likely at that time nobody was in the right state of mind to question why his key was so conveniently found there. (Genji might have realised it but he is always on Kinzo's side so it doesn't matter.)
Moving on, Natsuhi's death. It was said that the guns were merely a collection so it could have been possible that Kinzo had shot Natsuhi with the same model yet different gun and merely replaced it.
About Nanjo, Kumasawa and Genji's death, Kinzo could have simply gotten in with the master key or anything, as the bodies of Shannon and Gohda weren't checked.Which would also explain why Maria said that one of them was shocked (saying something like "it can't be". Maria could easily be fooled into saying that Beatrice was disguised as Kinzo, and seeing as Maria has showed signs on not having common sense and also due to her wishing for witches to exist so much she could have easily accepted it.
Only thing I haven't really figured out is the marks on Natsuhi's door, of course it could be another sign of her insanity.
So according to this theory, the list of culprits narrow down to
Rosa/Rudolf and Kinzo

Well then, I'll just pick at a few details here and there.

Who gave Maria the umbrella?
How did Rosa/Rudolf transport the six bodies to the garden shed in the middle of a violent storm?
Considering that Eva was found lying on her bed, why was she wearing shoes?
According to Battler's observation, it would have been hard to kill someone by stabbing them through the skull, and yet Eva and Hideyoshi had no other wounds. How did Kinzo drive the picks in, and why were there no signs of a struggle?
If there are several culprits, why are all of them going around stabbing people with the same set of ice picks?

This is just some food for thought, so don't take it to mean your theory is necessarily right or wrong.

Meltyred · 2011-06-30, 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

Well then, I'll just pick at a few details here and there.

Who gave Maria the umbrella?
How did Rosa/Rudolf transport the six bodies to the garden shed in the middle of a violent storm?
Considering that Eva was found lying on her bed, why was she wearing shoes?
According to Battler's observation, it would have been hard to kill someone by stabbing them through the skull, and yet Eva and Hideyoshi had no other wounds. How did Kinzo drive the picks in, and why were there no signs of a struggle?
If there are several culprits, why are all of them going around stabbing people with the same set of ice picks?

This is just some food for thought, so don't take it to mean your theory is necessarily right or wrong.

1. Kinzo or the other culprit did. (they could have been working together and Kinzo already planned to kill the other person from the start). This theory might have been Rosa being the other culprit, and she could fool maria because despite how knowledgeable she was in the arts of occult, she had little to none common sense and was extremely naive.
2.Kinzo helped. (He is the master of the mansion, it would not be weird to have a set of master keys, also it was possible that they had a discussion there and the killings happened in the shed.)
3.Kinzo could have used a ice pick gun(or even a crossbow, close enough) . (He even had a collection of rifles, this ain't weird at all compared to that)
4.Like I said, he was already missing before Natsuhi entered his study so he had lots of time to kill multiple people and probably already killed the other culprit. (And if they were already working together to some extent, it wouldn't be weird to do that .)
And it's Kinzo, he obviously does want to make it look as occult as possible.

I have another theory about kinzo being dead already from the start but it kinda has a loophole so I won't throw it out yet.
I'd love to have it proven wrong though.

Jan-Poo · 2011-06-30, 04:34

why you think there's a need for an additional killer? With the premises you are postulating couldn't it have been Kinzo doing all the killings with the help of his accomplices?

Meltyred · 2011-06-30, 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

why you think there's a need for an additional killer? With the premises you are postulating couldn't it have been Kinzo doing all the killings with the help of his accomplices?

Cause Shannon's death seemed too random.
1. If Kinzo was behind this and the servants were in on it, then most likely Shannon would not have been killed, and more likely some other person instead. (wouldn't seem weird for kinzo to call both kumasawa and gohda might have just been following krauss)

Of course, it might have just been a accident that Shannon passed by. (then they had 6 people so there was no need for further deaths)
While thinking about this, we have no idea where Nanjo was at the end of the first night. (weird....)
Course Kinzo being the one behind it all is also plausible as everyone else shut themselves in the mansion and if it was Kinzo, he could have found a lock remover and used one of the dead bodies to fake his own death. (the having 2 culprits part makes this much easier to execute.)

haguruma · 2011-06-30, 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meltyred

Of course, it might have just been a accident that Shannon passed by. (then they had 6 people so there was no need for further deaths)

But then why did someone use the paint to draw claw marks on Natsuhi's door?
In your theory, was that done before or after Shannon became an accidental victim?
What reason is there for someone to draw that at Natsuhi's door of all people?
Why not Eva's and Hideyoshi's room?
Why didn't the culprit also smear paint around the guesthouse when he was already out there to put the bodies in the garden shed?

Like everyone else, I'm not saying your reasoning is wrong, but you have to have solid prove to declare somebody guilty.

Meltyred · 2011-06-30, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by haguruma

But then why did someone use the paint to draw claw marks on Natsuhi's door?
In your theory, was that done before or after Shannon became an accidental victim?
What reason is there for someone to draw that at Natsuhi's door of all people?
Why not Eva's and Hideyoshi's room?
Why didn't the culprit also smear paint around the guesthouse when he was already out there to put the bodies in the garden shed?

Like everyone else, I'm not saying your reasoning is wrong, but you have to have solid prove to declare somebody guilty.

That's the flaw that I can't get rid of, since I don't believe in magic,I don't know what they are for, though the substance could be red wax, which explains the stickiness.
What I do not get it how it was Natsuhi's door, and how it was painted on to the door. We can also not say that the paint on Eva's and Hideyoshi's room was not there when Kannon and Genji arrived, as if there is a culprit, there may be a liar and since it wasn't seen in battler's presence, we have no way of telling.
But if Battler was the culprit (who knows?), everything has to be thrown out the window.

AuraTwilight · 2011-06-30, 20:40

Quote:

But if Battler was the culprit (who knows?), everything has to be thrown out the window.

If Battler is the culprit, there's no point trying to solve this game because we have no way of telling what's true.

Meltyred · 2011-06-30, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

If Battler is the culprit, there's no point trying to solve this game because we have no way of telling what's true.

The ultimate troll.

haguruma · 2011-07-01, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meltyred

What I do not get it how it was Natsuhi's door, and how it was painted on to the door. We can also not say that the paint on Eva's and Hideyoshi's room was not there when Kannon and Genji arrived, as if there is a culprit, there may be a liar and since it wasn't seen in battler's presence, we have no way of telling.

Those are good questions.
But at least behind Eva's and Hideyoshi's door there were their corpses...so there was a similar reason for the magic symbol as with the garden shed.
But what reason could have been there to paint incoherent scratchmarks on Natsuhi's door?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meltyred

The ultimate troll.

Maybe. But I think what AuraTwilight is trying to say is: If you start doubting the perspective you might as well stop reasoning now. If you start to think "it's impossible", then it really becomes impossible.

Meltyred · 2011-07-07, 08:15

They put in a theory on episode one in a abridged series....
What.

Spoiler for Video that has no relation to the game.:

cereal_killerxx · 2011-07-13, 15:17

Just finished Episode 1. I'm hooked.

zibbazabba905 · 2011-07-13, 15:41

continuing this from the translation thread

When I read through (most of the series) it was an extremely rainy month, and almost every day I was reading it would just downpour. perfect background setting.

Hooked from EP1? I've had a hard time getting people to read this getting bored with the first half of EP1. I kind of think the tea party should happen in the beginning to hook people in

2010-08-19, 08:36	Link #482
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	I just hope people will finally stop posting ulterior episode spoiler in specific thread... Isn't that hard to just post the said speculation or observation in the thread of the episode that contributed to this train of thought? These threads are used as grounds of thought and opinions for people who are lagging behind or wish to see the thought progression (be it because of the anime, or by curiosity). __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2010-08-20, 20:26	Link #484
Judoh Mystery buff Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Gone Fishin!	You're remembering it wrong. Battler never shot a gun in episode 1. Natsuhi sees butterflies and shouts at someone the narration says appeared in the form of Butterflies and they have a duel. All Battler did was threaten the person in front of the portrait later. And he doesn't actually shoot the gun he got from Natsuhi. The clock turns to midnight and the game ends with him being laughed at. __________________ Judoh's George Culprit Analysis George steals candy from kids! Archive of Ryukishi interviews Gold truth theories:"

2010-08-20, 23:25	Link #486
Dlanor .A. Nox The Death! Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Purgatorio	Only the anime shows Battler shooting the gun but even then the anime isn't exactly the best source for FACTS. __________________

2011-06-30, 04:34	Link #491
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	why you think there's a need for an additional killer? With the premises you are postulating couldn't it have been Kinzo doing all the killings with the help of his accomplices? __________________

2011-07-07, 08:15	Link #498
Meltyred Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	They put in a theory on episode one in a abridged series.... What. Spoiler for Video that has no relation to the game.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fnpn...el_video_title

2010-08-20, 19:45	Link #483
TehChron Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010	Why do we assume that Battler is the Detective in this episode? Doesn't he disqualify himself when he shoots at that magically regenerating Golden Butterfly, and then witnesses aforementioned regeneration?

2011-06-29, 13:28	Link #488
Meltyred Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	Sorry to necro this thread, but I have another theory (which I did not think was said after browsing through all pages) Spoiler for Theory of muders: There were 2 sets of culprits, one was one of the 4 whose faces were smashed and is a Ushiroumiya blood relation.(will explain later) Next is none other than Kinzo himself. Firstly, the 1st 6 murders, this might be as what a few other members suggested, a fight broke out and such, and so the rest can be left to our imaginations and such.What is known, however, is that out of the "dead" people, 4 could have been switched and 2 of them fits my theory. As to who could be the substitute dead body, it could be even the ship captain. (who knows?) Next, Kinzo causing the murders with the remaining culprit and causing 7 of the deaths. He could easily send the letters, have the servants and nanjo be his accomplices (even if they did get killed, also makes what kannon said sound more believable). This basically enables him to create the closed room scenario of Eva and Hideyoshi's deaths and managed to get out after. So what was Natsuhi saying when she said she talked to Kinzo? Well, nanjo's line when he was being susupected let me think that she could possibly be slightly insane and see hallucinations, which would also explain her frequent headaches. Now moving on, "Kinzo's" body. That could easily be the other culprit, according to my theory and also Kinzo does have a motive, basically killing everybody else to revive Beatrice. Another thing that would identify Kinzo as the corpse would be his key, which was left there on purpose to give the illusion that Kinzo was indeed dead. (Most likely at that time nobody was in the right state of mind to question why his key was so conveniently found there. (Genji might have realised it but he is always on Kinzo's side so it doesn't matter.) Moving on, Natsuhi's death. It was said that the guns were merely a collection so it could have been possible that Kinzo had shot Natsuhi with the same model yet different gun and merely replaced it. About Nanjo, Kumasawa and Genji's death, Kinzo could have simply gotten in with the master key or anything, as the bodies of Shannon and Gohda weren't checked.Which would also explain why Maria said that one of them was shocked (saying something like "it can't be". Maria could easily be fooled into saying that Beatrice was disguised as Kinzo, and seeing as Maria has showed signs on not having common sense and also due to her wishing for witches to exist so much she could have easily accepted it. Only thing I haven't really figured out is the marks on Natsuhi's door, of course it could be another sign of her insanity. So according to this theory, the list of culprits narrow down to Rosa/Rudolf and Kinzo

2011-07-13, 15:17	Link #499
cereal_killerxx Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007	Just finished Episode 1. I'm hooked.

2011-07-13, 15:41	Link #500
zibbazabba905 twuth it EASY. Join Date: Jun 2010	continuing this from the translation thread When I read through (most of the series) it was an extremely rainy month, and almost every day I was reading it would just downpour. perfect background setting. Hooked from EP1? I've had a hard time getting people to read this getting bored with the first half of EP1. I kind of think the tea party should happen in the beginning to hook people in