[Manga] Naruto Chapter 631 Discussion Thread

[Fardle]

Hi, signed up just cuz i needed a place to vent after this chapter >.> sounds fishy to me. i mean... sasuke turns up. btw i'm a good guy now. his dad shows up with all other previous hokages... which... i'm pretty sure weren't able to be edo'd because... OH YER, they're trapped inside the deathgod. all the souls sealed away. team 7 is reformed? BS. sakura is weak. sasuke is a douche (in a cool way). it just doesn't add up. this is either a preview of infinite tsukuyomi or another genjutsu. or ya kno. terrible terrible writing.

Also... way to bring back narusaku shortly after that xmas rush which was like "FU SAKURA! U GOT NO CHANCE!" due to the scene from hinata... ruined my xmas present QQ

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

well in obito's own words it was because of more than just rin. because rin and then rin and on account of rin he rinned. rin rin rin he loved rin

I was wondering why was Obito impersonating Madara even when it didn't make sense, but it seems we can make sense of it: he wanted to escape the reality. He can escape the reality of being Obito if he thinks of himself as another person, if he tries to erase his original personality along with his painful memories by being someone else.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I was wondering why was Obito impersonating Madara even when it didn't make sense, but it seems we can make sense of it: he wanted to escape the reality. He can escape the reality of being Obito if he thinks of himself as another person, if he tries to erase his original personality along with his painful memories by being someone else.

yea i agree. i dont have a problem with him being madara at all times up until his recent revelation. he put himself permanently in character to escape reality. there are some people in real life who do actually do this as a type of coping mechanism. they use their phony personality so much that they literally forget what they used to be like prior to it

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Well you mustn't have discussed much about the subject then and in any case you seem to have some difficulty understanding what I'm coming across. You keep repeating how Gaara had no choice and how Sasuke could have chosen another path as if it has anything to do with my argument (and on the subject considering the fact that we've learned that Uchiha are genetically driven to this coupled with what's been done to him by Itachi make it pretty close to the driven crazy by Bijuu/father Gaara bit). What I am saying and which you called shallow for some reason and yet apparently can't answer at all is that Gaara used to be quantitatively one of the most deranged character in the story. We are talking uncontrollable shaking, mad chuckle and bloodlust, dribble of drool along the shin, unfocused eyes and delusion here. As I've also pointed out your claim that Gaara only attacked and murdered those who attacked him first is so vastly false that I wonder if you remember who his character used to be at all. Gaara lived for the death of others and nothing else. He didn't care about his family or village or anything of the sort. He lived for himself and the trill of carnage.

First of all, I said he only killed when attacked, on missions and results of insomnia. All I'm saying is Gaara was understandable once you knew his background. Sasuke was less understandable. You can feel sympathetic that he lost his entire clan, but his superior attitude easily made you forget that. That's all I'm saying. Just because I said Gaara wasn't worse than Sasuke doesn't mean Sasuke was worse than Gaara. I don't rank characters like that. This all started when Gaara was mentioned out of nowhere where it didn't make sense to me because they are two different characters.

He was nonetheless reformed with a speech from an insane killer feared and hated by all to the loved, respected and wise leader of his village. And yet you do not see the reason his case would be brought for as an example explaining why there is nothing extraordinary with the notion that the same could happen with Sasuke who for all his crazy rant and betrayal never fell into such depth of frenzied madness. Once again my question is why? And more importantly considering Naruto wishes it, what could possibly make you think Naruto will fail?

Naruto does not change people only from words , but from his actions that show his determination. Kurama basically said that. I dislike when people use the terms talk-no-jutsu or plot-no-jutsu.

Why would he? He chose the life that he has? The fact he chose it himself gave him mental fortitude.

I never said Naruto would fail. Whether Naruto fails or not is subjective since it hasn't happened yet. Because you assume everything will be alright with Sasuke, I can't argue with that because that's you opinion. I hope so too.

However, I was just presenting my opinion of Sasuke as he is still the same as when he was wanting revenge, only changing that goal. He is still cold and indifferent. The fans that automatically calling him good now are saying that so casually when the situation is more complex than that. As in Sasuke still hates the village, but instead of just destroying it, he wants to change it to the way he thinks his best. That change doesn't necessarily call for a 180 change in personality.

You do realize he just arrived right? The following chapters will have them fight side by side and possibly later against one another to end the issue for good. Nobody said Sasuke is redeemed already, the point is that it's in the process right now.

Other posters said otherwise. I wasn't talking about you specifically, but from what I've been hearing from surfing around the net.

Yes Hashirama preceded Itachi who preceded Naruto, thanks for the information that was absolutely the point I was making. Now instead of making this kind of arbitrary statement could you finally answer the fact that Sasuke is perfectly aware and freely admited that his Uchiha of a brother followed the same philosophy than the leader of the Senju who in turn also has exactly the same discourse than Naruto and following this fact explain why Sasuke would be pissed off by something he has known for many chapters now.

Because Sasuke has never been one to act mature when his family his mentioned by someone other than him.

I feel a little like a broken record by now but how does this has anything whatsoever to do with what I told you? And more importantly what sort of reasoning is this? You're saying that because when Sasuke intended to destroy Konoha he had promised Naruto he'd strike at him first he still intend to do so now that he doesn't want to destroy Konoha because... He doesn't care about the rookies opinion of him? How does that make any kind of sense? You could as well have said that he still wishes to kill him because he still wears a purple belt.

The point is that Sasuke wanted to kill Naruto while he was at the battlefield, and not at the village. Both of them made a promise to each other and Sasuke remembered that promise. Both of them don't go back on their words.

I've already answered this in my previous post, you are talking about the opinion of side characters as if they matter when I'm talking about the way those characters are presented to us, the audience. And even if I were to take characters into consideration it's not like fodders or even Shika and Shino's opinion matters in any meaningful way. The only person whose opinion counts for something is Naruto who wishes for Sasuke to be reformed and since Naruto is always vindicated so it shall be.

You say that, but Kishimoto has proven to put these side characters in the spotlight from time to time. Of course these characters matter. From what your saying, the audience thoughts are what count for whether criminals or Sasuke are forgiven and not the actual people in the story. However, the Naruto world is the Naruto world, and what goes on in there is completely out of the hands of us fans. In addition, at the end of the day the masses counts more than ours do, and even more Kishimoto who decides what they think. If what you said was true about Naruto's opinion being the only one that mattered, Sasuke would have been brought back a long time ago.

I'm not sure where this come from to be honest, you presented your opinion, so did I and we've debated about it. If you don't want to look at the details and guess what they means for the future of the story then don't.
In the other hand I really wouldn't call this story to be quite complex, it has a few twists but by and large the plot is pretty straight forward.
Oh and incidentally Obito did start all this because of Rin. She's the cause of his denial and the catalyst of his entire view that this world doesn't deserve to exist as it is.

All I said is making assumptions come along with the discussion. Nevertheless, I don't like when people imply the story is predictable and then complain about it(not talking about you), especially when in the end, their guesses were wrong. About Obito, now your taking you own opinion over what was stated in the manga.

[King Golden]

Heh. The Minato-Sakura-Naruto interaction got a laugh out of me. And assuming Hinata's "...!" face means she was listening... ahahaha

Madara's deranged happiness at seeing Hashirama, only to be casually(well, casually may be a bit off, seeing as Hashi screamed the equivalent of "STFU I'M BUSY!") brushed aside... This too made me laugh, indeed it did.

My first thoughts on Minato having the So6P-esque demon chakra cloak was, "Wow, now he's really Konoha's Yellow Flash."

And I think I read it in this thread, someone suggesting that Minato was able to achieve it since he was locked into eternal struggle with Kurama's yin chakra within the Death God's belly. That explanation is OK by me. Especially considering that Minato has been 'dead' for 16 years and would've consequently been in a war with the Kyuubi's chakra for that time. So it's conceivable that a genius of his stature could've worked out a way to subsume the chakra and use it. The battle to 'conquer' the Kyuubi's yang chakra was hard for Naruto because he had to defeat Kurama(chakra tug of war with a demon) to get it. Minato presumably didn't have that issue, as all that got sealed into the Death God was pure chakra.

But I would've preferred that the yin chakra produce... Well, anything else, really. I mean, I don't think the bloody demon cloak would've suited Minato, lol. But c'mon, couldn't we have gotten something else? It's not a big thing, just didn't like seeing Naruto's ultimate trump card AND his So6P parallel be usurped by his deceased father.

As for Sasuke declaring he wanted to become Hokage.. yeah, it creates a context for the final battle, Naruto v Sasuke. But I don't think that Sasuke's declaration means that he has all of a sudden discarded his homicidal designs... I think he's, yet again, changed where he thinks that hatred needs to be aimed.

Hashirama murdered his best friend in defense of the village. Itachi murdered his entire family, mom, dad, uncles, aunts, cousins, diluted cousins, etc etc, in defense of the village. As messed up as Sasuke is and was genetically predisposed to be, it wouldn't be surprising to me if the lesson he gleaned from Hashi's story and the truth of Itachi's life/death wasn't "defend the village above all else" but "kill any and everyone who threatens the village." I believe Sasuke is now as virtually every ninja before him was: a killer who's very willing to continue the cycle of killing people.

Naruto, on the other hand, is no killer, his whole purpose in life is to break the cycle of hatred through forgiveness... He's never killed anyone. Not in defense of the village, not as part of a mission to benefit the village, not even in self-defense. So, in that respect, he stands apart from all the previous(and even current) Kages and all the other ninja before him. Naruto is different from the system, he isn't and won't ever be a true part of it. Even when he said he and Sasuke would both die if they fought, I feel like he meant they'd both collapse of chakra exhaustion and die in each other's arms rather than actually deliver killing blows to one another.. lol.

I mean.. come on.. Naruto passed out and collapsed in the snow while just thinking of Sasuke.. you think he's gonna kill him? lol

[Monster0]

I thought yang already had a little yin,and Yin had a little yang.And the way chakra can gather itself seems like it don't matter if it's split. There's some splaining to do lucy.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by King Golden

As for Sasuke declaring he wanted to become Hokage.. yeah, it creates a context for the final battle, Naruto v Sasuke. But I don't think that Sasuke's declaration means that he has all of a sudden discarded his homicidal designs... I think he's, yet again, changed where he thinks that hatred needs to be aimed.

Hashirama murdered his best friend in defense of the village. Itachi murdered his entire family, mom, dad, uncles, aunts, cousins, diluted cousins, etc etc, in defense of the village. As messed up as Sasuke is and was genetically predisposed to be, it wouldn't be surprising to me if the lesson he gleaned from Hashi's story and the truth of Itachi's life/death wasn't "defend the village above all else" but "kill any and everyone who threatens the village." I believe Sasuke is now as virtually every ninja before him was: a killer who's very willing to continue the cycle of killing people.

Thank you!

Naruto, on the other hand, is no killer, his whole purpose in life is to break the cycle of hatred through forgiveness... He's never killed anyone. Not in defense of the village, not as part of a mission to benefit the village, not even in self-defense. So, in that respect, he stands apart from all the previous(and even current) Kages and all the other ninja before him. Naruto is different from the system, he isn't and won't ever be a true part of it. Even when he said he and Sasuke would both die if they fought, I feel like he meant they'd both collapse of chakra exhaustion and die in each other's arms rather than actually deliver killing blows to one another.. lol.

I mean.. come on.. Naruto passed out and collapsed in the snow while just thinking of Sasuke.. you think he's gonna kill him? lol

Yeah, the only time he really aided in killing someone was Kakuzu, taking two hearts one blow and leaving him vulnerable for Kakashi to finish off. The same could be said for Sakura. She aided in killing Sasori, but Chiyo was the one who delivered the final blow to him. Both Naruto and Sakura haven't really killed anyone.

True, Naruto would never kill Sasuke, no matter what. Sasuke is still a friend to him, and he promised Itachi. I believe that's what will make Naruto different from Hashirama, when dealing with Sasuke.

[Cookie-Monster]

Anyone else found it a bit annoying how Sasuke totally ignored Naruto? He talked to sakura, shikamaru, kiba etc, but didn't even so much as look at Naruto =)

[Kurohane]

^ I did. In fact, the way he acted cold to everyone was annoying. Sasuke ignoring Naruto turned the annoyance into rage.

[itachi-san314]

^really? do you guys remember anything about sasuke's character? (that's mostly directed to Kurohane, but come on..) sasuke acknowledging naruto would be the most out of character thing he could possibly do. and his acting anything but coldly to the k11 would be equally annoying. you're both just annoyed with his character trait, not this particular incident. i found it nostalgic because it was nearly identical to how he treated everyone back when he was living in konoha

[Cookie-Monster]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

^really? do you guys remember anything about sasuke's character? (that's mostly directed to Kurohane, but come on..) sasuke acknowledging naruto would be the most out of character thing he could possibly do. and his acting anything but coldly to the k11 would be equally annoying. you're both just annoyed with his character trait, not this particular incident. i found it nostalgic because it was nearly identical to how he treated everyone back when he was living in konoha

errr sasuke acknowledged naruto many many times throughout the manga. Perfect example is when Naruto saved Sakura, and tobi arrived to teleport sasuke away. Sasuke stopped him because he wanted to listen to Naruto's speech.

Infact i'd say Sasuke tends to ignore naruto whenever he (sasuke) is feeling most cocky. Whenever his confidence/morale is shaken is when he starts acknowledging Naruto more.

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

^really? do you guys remember anything about sasuke's character? (that's mostly directed to Kurohane, but come on..) sasuke acknowledging naruto would be the most out of character thing he could possibly do. and his acting anything but coldly to the k11 would be equally annoying. you're both just annoyed with his character trait, not this particular incident. i found it nostalgic because it was nearly identical to how he treated everyone back when he was living in konoha

That certainly hasn't changed at all. I don't remember him ever being the supportive type.

On another note... Sasuke and Naruto are still both Genin.... Can you imagine if the two of them showed up to the Chuunin exams in their current state? There would have to be massive restrictions placed on them to keep other competitors from leaving immediatly. Anyone who showed up to the war would just flip out: "Man this is BS I'm going home. The freakin kage can whine all he wants after he beats them himself."

I honestly cant see either of them taking part without it becomeing a one sided slaughter. mabey they can just take the Jounin one... or Sakura will become the leader of team 7 after Kakashi gets killed by Obito in the next chapter or so.

[Cookie-Monster]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

or Sakura will become the leader of team 7 after Kakashi gets killed by Obito in the next chapter or so.

OH GOD NO

(Btw I'm not scared of sakura becoming leader, or kakashi dying. What scares me is the next chapter switching back to obito/kakashi)

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Cookie-Monster

Anyone else found it a bit annoying how Sasuke totally ignored Naruto? He talked to sakura, shikamaru, kiba etc, but didn't even so much as look at Naruto =)

Originally Posted by Kurohane

^ I did. In fact, the way he acted cold to everyone was annoying. Sasuke ignoring Naruto turned the annoyance into rage.

What would you have liked for him to say to Naruto?

Originally Posted by Cookie-Monster

errr sasuke acknowledged naruto many many times throughout the manga. Perfect example is when Naruto saved Sakura, and tobi arrived to teleport sasuke away. Sasuke stopped him because he wanted to listen to Naruto's speech.

Infact i'd say Sasuke tends to ignore naruto whenever he (sasuke) is feeling most cocky. Whenever his confidence/morale is shaken is when he starts acknowledging Naruto more.

I don't think these people are looking for simple “acknowledgment”; it sounds like they just want yet more fan-service in the form of Sasuke being envious or somehow humbled by Naruto because of his progress, and/or that his father happened to be the fourth Hokage. However, the fact of the matter is that after Sasuke left Konoha hundreds of chapters ago, he really didn't give a rat's ass about his and Naruto's rivalry, and has instead been working through his own issues. Even when he was taunted by Zetsu and Obito that Naruto might be stronger than him when the news first hit that Pein was defeated, Sasuke stated he didn't care and continued on his agenda.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Cookie-Monster

Perfect example is when Naruto saved Sakura, and tobi arrived to teleport sasuke away. Sasuke stopped him because he wanted to listen to Naruto's speech.

you do realize that scene took place over several chapters right? so far sasuke and naruto have shared only a couple panels. if you think my position is that the 2 will never talk this whole scene then that is silly. my point is that sasuke doesn't acknowledge naruto when he sees him and he didn't in the scene you referenced either

Originally Posted by Midnight Commander

What would you have liked for him to say to Naruto?

oh hi naruto! it's me sasuke! boy you sure got big and strong!

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

you do realize that scene took place over several chapters right? so far sasuke and naruto have shared only a couple panels. if you think my position is that the 2 will never talk this whole scene then that is silly. my point is that sasuke doesn't acknowledge naruto when he sees him and he didn't in the scene you referenced either

oh hi naruto! it's me sasuke! boy you sure got big and strong!

All right who wants a hug! Common get over here big guy how the hell are ya! Man last time I saw you was what that time I tried to kill you guys? Man we sure did some crazy stuff back then! Heck gimme a bro fist while I gotcha here....

just like that i guess....

[Artful Dodger]

I don't understand whats up with everyone and all this “acknowledgment” talk? How much more do you want Naruto to be acknowledged? He is already heralded as the hero of Konoha, and is certainly the most powerful in his village –a shoe-in for the Kage title, theres no comparison. The Kages of all the ninja villages acknowledged him, and even left Obito up to him(when at first they didn't even want him in the war). All the bijuu pretty much acknowledged him as the second sage of 6. ...Not to mention he's also acknowledged as the “chosen one” who will bring peace to the ninja world... What more do you guys want?

I remember one person several chapters ago even complaining about Madara not being "surprised" over Naruto's use of the kyuubi's chakra. I mean, really, how much do you guys want everyone to fawn over him?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

All right who wants a hug! Common get over here big guy how the hell are ya! Man last time I saw you was what that time I tried to kill you guys? Man we sure did some crazy stuff back then! Heck gimme a bro fist while I gotcha here....

just like that i guess....

haha, well that would be pretty funny. maybe that's how infinite tsukiyomi will go

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

I don't understand whats up with everyone and all this “acknowledgment” talk? How much more do you want Naruto to be acknowledged? He is already heralded as the hero of Konoha, and is certainly the most powerful in his village –a shoe-in for the Kage title, theres no comparison. The Kages of all the ninja villages acknowledged him, and even left Obito up to him(when at first they didn't even want him in the war). All the bijuu pretty much acknowledged him as the second sage of 6. ...Not to mention he's also acknowledged as the “chosen one” who will bring peace to the ninja world... What more do you guys want?

it's classic human nature. people fall for the one guy/girl who doesn't like them and desperately want acknowledgement from that one person who doesn't give it to them, generally ignoring and taking for granted all the people who do acknowledge and like them... even though every other character has expressed some form of acknowledgement toward naruto, people can't get over that one character who refuses to do it... even though it's been a staple of his character since day 1... come on sasuke, just a wink at least?

[Cookie-Monster]

lol what are you guys talking about!

You act as if Sasuke's actions thus far are not meant to be noticed. As if its supposed to be simply his character and a non-issue. Him suddenly arriving, exchanging words with the other genin, even managing a half-smile of sakura, and he doesn't even bother LOOKING at naruto ;

No one is saying he should apologize or give naruto a big hug, but seriously ... not even some eye-contact?

The obvious part is of-course all of his antics were meant directly for Naruto's ears. He didn't say he was going to become hokage because he wanted approval from the cannon fodder. He said it because he wanted naruto to hear it.

What is irritating is how un-savory his whole attitude is.

Talk to the people who gave up on you ages ago and badmouthed you.
Ignore the one guy who all those years never bad mouthed you and tried to help you reach the exact position you now are.

You can look at it from any angle you want. Bottom line is that Sasuke's animace towards Naruto stems from at best being 'childish', to at worst being butt-hurt.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Cookie-Monster

The obvious part is of-course all of his antics were meant directly for Naruto's ears. He didn't say he was going to become hokage because he wanted approval from the cannon fodder. He said it because he wanted naruto to hear it.

this. you seem to understand... sasuke isn't the type to give direct acknowledgement to naruto. he never has done that. doing it in this roundabout way is exactly like his character

What is irritating is how un-savory his whole attitude is.

and that's the way he's always been...