AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2004-09-10, 20:32   Link #21
Forse
r00t for life
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: /dev/null
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Paper
First off, I applaud the Russian President for not negotiating with them. Not only was it the right decision but it will be more benifical in the long run. Even if they kill all the children and hostages they won't have their demands filled and few others will ever consider a similar strategy seeing how poorly it works out. Second of all, what the hell are you people saying? Seriously, I doubt a single one of you has even the slightest of clues as to why the Chechens are doing this. 200 people dead, that's all? To quel the Chechen's indendancy movement the Russians preformed wholesale slaughter of the Chechnens. Over 100,000 have been confirmed dead with an additional ~100,000 still missing, many of which are women and children from a country with a population not much larger than 800,000 when it all started. Did I mention that many of the women who weren't killed were raped and beaten to the verge of death?

A hand grenade in a gymnasium versus the nerve gas the Russians used on Chechen cities, a couple hundred deaths versus the hundreds of thousands of dead, dying and missing. At this point there is little the Chechens can do that would be comparable to what the Russians have done to them. These people want freedom, but those vocal about it tend to be found dead in the morning or just disappear entirely only to turn up in a mass grave a couple months later. Their cities and infrastructure have been destroyed, all their industries have been demolished. The Russians have bombed their hospitals and schools, terrorized their people, done some things that could be considered war crimes and even tried some of their soldier for war crimes.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this but when did independance and freedom from oppression become the goals of madmen and 'angry unemployed people that release [their] stress by doing stupid things'? To think along those lines would undermine some of the greatest moments in American history, the histories of countless other nations and nearly every social revolution in human history.

Now don't misunderstand, I don't support their current actions (I honestly believe they should all be lined up and publicly executed for endangering the lives of children). But to blame one side exclusively when boths sides of the conflict have been terrorizing each other for years is a large over sight. Also, I would strongly advise against comparing the situation to one you saw in a game.

Oh you seem like an expert...good one. First of all it's easy to sit in front of your computer and play "how is right and who is wrong". I have friends in Chechnya and let me tell you; unless you're there you don't know the meaning of being scared. Yes Russians might've done some horrible things to Chechen people I agree, but that was sometime ago now and remember Stalin sent them all to Siberia, and Russia brought them back and gave them some kind of autonomy. Also taking kids hostage will resolve in one thing, more angry Russians. And that means more cruelty for Chechnya; you see it's never ending cycle. If Chechens continue this it will resolve in large scaled military strike and trust me...no one will benefit from that.
Forse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-09-10, 20:36   Link #22
hobobaggins
だいすきが大好きです!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 29
Send a message via AIM to hobobaggins
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grona
Small papers dont usualy (i'm assuming its a small paper) just dont cover that sort of thing. Our only paper around here never even had it on the front page at all. I guess they just dont bother since people hear about it from larger sources, and local news is just in more demand. Of course I hardly heard anything about the rape comitted by american solders on any of the news stations (except Newsworld twice) and certanly not in print. So I guess its a matter of what they want to print.
uhh... "san fransisco chronicle?"

Quote:
The City and County of San Francisco (population 776,773), the fourth-largest city in the state of California, United States, is a consolidated city-county situated at the northern tip of the San Francisco Peninsula that forms San Francisco Bay.
its the fourth largest city in the state so i think that they should be more concerned with more worldly matters, rather than month-old debates on which of the candidates lied on what.
hobobaggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-09-10, 20:49   Link #23
StoneColdCrazy
Noumenon
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Surrey, England, land of rubbishness.
Age: 38
Send a message via ICQ to StoneColdCrazy Send a message via MSN to StoneColdCrazy
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobobaggins
its the fourth largest city in the state so i think that they should be more concerned with more worldly matters, rather than month-old debates on which of the candidates lied on what.
I'm afraid that really doesn't surprise me, though. Perhaps it's because I live in Europe and so 'local' news often stretches to a dozen different countries, but US news always seems very introverted and self-obsessed. CNN world service, which we get over here, is brilliant and truly international, but hardly anybody watches that in the US. Fox, regular CNN and ABC are mostly inward-looking, but then I suppose America sits on a continent with only two other countries, plus the Carribean.

Then again, the election is drawing interest from all over the world - it is a big event, America is a major world power and Bush is both loved and hated. Finding out what happens to Bush interests me far more than Clinton, Bush Sr or Reagan.

SCC
StoneColdCrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-09-10, 20:57   Link #24
dreamless
/Ultimate Magic Attack!!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
well, we need to make it clear that those chechnyan "animals" that did the horrible things in this incident are already killed or captured, sure there are many more chechnyan "animals" out there on the loose, but most of the chechnyans are good humans, and they are against terrorism. Also we shouldn't forget that there are still many many Russian "animals", Arabian "animals", Japanese "animals", Chinese "animals", American "animals", etc. etc, actually "animals" in human guise all over the world on the loose, or worse, in positions of power. And some chechnyan "animals" killing Russian people doesn't grant Russian "animals" the right to kill chechnyan people (not that they need the right anyway).

I still don't understand how the whole thing turned out like this... I think in the report it says when Russians were negotiating with the terrorists and sending people to take dead corpses out, somehow explosives were accidentally triggered at that time, and the terrorists panicked and started shooting everyone on sight... I hope it's the truth, not Russians special forces did something stupid to trigger the explosives... the result is definitely a mess, over 300 dead over 700 hurt, that means almost no one comes out unhurt...

Quote:
Yes if this was an independant nation claiming that another independant nation was part of it it would be different. But this is a state wishing to seperate from a country they didn't want to be part of in the first place.
hmm... last time I checked all the major countries in the world and the UN still don't consider Taiwan as an independent country, and officially Taiwan is still just a province of China, even in Taiwan's own official map...
dreamless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-09-11, 15:10   Link #25
Mr_Paper
Hmm...
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Looking for his book...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forse
Oh you seem like an expert...good one. First of all it's easy to sit in front of your computer and play "how is right and who is wrong". I have friends in Chechnya and let me tell you; unless you're there you don't know the meaning of being scared. Yes Russians might've done some horrible things to Chechen people I agree, but that was sometime ago now and remember Stalin sent them all to Siberia, and Russia brought them back and gave them some kind of autonomy. Also taking kids hostage will resolve in one thing, more angry Russians. And that means more cruelty for Chechnya; you see it's never ending cycle. If Chechens continue this it will resolve in large scaled military strike and trust me...no one will benefit from that.
I have a friend who moved to Canada 2 years ago from Chechnya, good person but they avoid discussion of Chechnya like the plague. Yes Stalin did deport and move many Chechens, majority actually went to Kazakhstan, after the end of World War Two (1944) under suspition of their aiding Germany during the war. However, a little more than a decade later, they were allowed to return (~1956) only to find their homes and cities occupied by transplanted Russians. I don't like Stalin much but this was a very wise move on his behalf, the state was now occupied primarily by those loyal to him which reduced the chance of revolt and uprising (It should be noted that major conflict did not resume until after the death of Stalin - he must have studied Machiavelli).

I'm not trying to say that one side is more right than the other, I'd just like people to realize that the two sides involved have been going at each other like this for almost a century now (it began with the 1917 overthrow of the Czarist government).
Mr_Paper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-09-11, 18:12   Link #26
Antonik
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvenPath
It looks like the chechen rebels are hanging with the wrong people.
Chechens are muslim, its like them allowing thier brethern to help them. Russia won't grant chechenya independance becuase all they want to do is spread islam like other islamic states. WHen chechnya was briefly independed they invaded Georgia, thats why russians moved in and had a schrimish with them.

Chechnyans right now harbor terriorts, its more or less a terrorts paradise, there no government they can do whatever they want. Its also a pathway for terriorists, they can get into russia and then rest of Europe thru chechenya.
Antonik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-09-11, 19:05   Link #27
dreamless
/Ultimate Magic Attack!!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonik
Chechens are muslim, its like them allowing thier brethern to help them. Russia won't grant chechenya independance becuase all they want to do is spread islam like other islamic states.
Hmm... I'm not entirely sure on this, but I don't think the Muslims try to spread Islam and convert everyone into Muslims like, for example, the Christians do. Actually I think the Muslims won't easily let some non-Muslims getting converted even if they wish for it. I have some Muslim friends myself, and they have told me that they won't allow me to be converted into a Muslim even if I wanted to.They are more like a religious and ethnical group rather than just a religious one...
dreamless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-09-12, 01:41   Link #28
whatever123
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 36
Send a message via MSN to whatever123
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
Hmm... I'm not entirely sure on this, but I don't think the Muslims try to spread Islam and convert everyone into Muslims like, for example, the Christians do. Actually I think the Muslims won't easily let some non-Muslims getting converted even if they wish for it. I have some Muslim friends myself, and they have told me that they won't allow me to be converted into a Muslim even if I wanted to.They are more like a religious and ethnical group rather than just a religious one...

actually you are wrong about this, i don't know about what your friends told you but muslims always try to spread their religion, there are a lot of organizations dedicated to the spread of islam
__________________
whatever123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.