AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Macross

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-12-09, 09:07   Link #41
Yot-chan
Minmay Guard
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Did someone from the MacrossWorld flamewars slither over here?
Youtube, actually:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Robotechtehbest

I get the feeling he's actually a Macross fan PRETENDING to be a rapid Robotech fan.
Yot-chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-09, 09:42   Link #42
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Youtube, actually:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Robotechtehbest

I get the feeling he's actually a Macross fan PRETENDING to be a rapid Robotech fan.
Oh, *that* guy. Yeah, well, who really cares. I loved Robotech when I didn't have the chance to see Macross, now I love Macross, because it simply has a better narrative and a much better expanded universe ( see: Macross Frontier and all the other series which came before. Yeah, even Macross 7 ).
__________________
magnuskn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-11, 20:07   Link #43
Zinjo
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotechtehbest View Post
Harmony Gold legal use macross, Harmony Gold did buy to Tatsunoko Macross Rights. So Macross Fanboy no complain, Robotech legal use Macross design.
go www.robotech.com, it say "CAN USE ALL ROBOTECH", so can use macross design too. By contract Harmony Gold use too macross sequel design.
Ah yes, another RT fanboy.

My friend what you have been told on the RT fan boards is misleading. Tatsunoko owns the "Maker's Rights" to SDFM, which means they own the animation that they created for the series, outside of Japan. BigWest has "Author's Rights" what we call here "Intellectual Property" rights, which means the story, the designs, the franchise itself is owned by those who created it.

Harmoney Gold can only own what Tatsunoko can sell and that is title to the animation itself. One of the reasons I believe all subsequent Macross shows tend to reference art and scenes from DYRL and not SDFM.

HG owns an erroneous trademark on a name that they have tenuous legal rights to. The only way they could control the importation of Macross named productions in the West and protect their little RT franchise from superior BigWest productions. To further their control they've gotten into bed with Manga Entertainment, the only other licenser of Macross material in the US.
Zinjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-11, 20:24   Link #44
Zinjo
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
And I am not too sure if I'd agree to the claim that Macross not being a major title for Bandai. Certainly it is the second largest mecha franchise in Japan. I think the issue here is that Bandai doesn't really care about the anime market here in North America. After all, East Asia is where all the money is (for now). Moreover, since Gundam will never suffer from the same legal issues, we can't really use it as a gauge. On a further note, anime merchandise sales in NA pales in comparison when the East Asian market is considered. Therefore, how much emphasis do Japanese companies place on our market begs to be asked.

- Tak
I suspect that is the biggest reason why BW isn't fighting to get it's TM back. The cost benefit ratio is too low for the West. Asia is still an open market for Macross merch and that is where the focus is going to be. Follow the money and the rest will make sense. RT is a niche within a niche market in the West, so HG will agressively try to protect it, but the reality is that HG made its money from licensing foreign films, dubbing them and them selling them in the West. RT was more an accident for them rather than a conscious business plan.

They abandoned the franchise in the 90's due to lack of interest and the better ROI on doing their regular business of import sales. It wasn't until DVD became mainstream and the Anime market matured that they started peddling the show again.
Zinjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-12, 07:52   Link #45
ReddyRedWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
A one year anniversary before a response.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/inde...dpost&p=798935

All there is to know about Macross IP rights.

@Yot-chan

I've seen this idiot's claims ripped to pieces at 4chan's /m/. For that matter anything Robotech.
ReddyRedWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-12, 18:00   Link #46
Tak
Catholic = Cat addiction?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
I find it rather surprising that nobody ever posted the original court documents, but they are located here

It is actually a bit more in depth than what was written in Macross World.

The original case is the pdf file on the left, with supplementary documents to the right. Two most notable sections of the court ruling are:



Which states that Tatsunoko Productions possesses the rights to merchandising and licensing of SDF: Macross overseas while obtaining all of the profit generated from the overseas market only. However, the oft-missed point is that, domestic profit is to be shared. So yes, Tatsu gets a piece of the pie for the domestic market, as well.

Then here is the other key factor:



This article indicates that Studio Nue possesses the intellectual property rights listed from index 1 - 41 of the supplementary material. They are the sole party able to utilize the properties listed from 1 - 41 and manipulate the said properties as they see fit. This excludes Tatsunoko Productions entirely.

No where on the court document indicates that Tatsu has the right to manipulate the original series or any of its sequels internationally and/or domestically. Therefore, it certainly does not give them the right to all future derivatives of Macross overseas. That was not part of the original document. Based on my personal interpretation, this may also mean that HG committed an illegal act by creating Robotech or the more recent Shadow Chronicles.

So this is the original court statement and proceeding document. Does it change anything? Not quite, but since I never saw a single post of the original document, I suppose I should do that for everyone.

Again, no legal action was brought against HG for obvious profit reasons. To be honest, I am less interested in seeing Macross merchandise legally being retailed here than to actually see Harmony Gold choke on its own words and burn in legal hell.

- Tak
__________________
BLESSED IS OUR GOD, THE LORD OF MIRACLES, FOR HE HAS SUPPLIED AN ENTIRE BATTALION WITH JUST FIVE ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TWO GRENADES!!

Remember, the toes you step on today may be connected to the @ss you have to kiss tomorrow.
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-12, 20:28   Link #47
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
Also, preventing a Robotech movie would be high on my list. Although, as people discussed extensively ( only 60+ pages for the first thread. ) on MW, it'd probably be a re-imaging which has the "Robotech" title slapped on it.

And welcome back, Tak. Get yourself over to the light novel thread, where important developments have happened. I want your opinions on them.
__________________
magnuskn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-12, 20:59   Link #48
Bri
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
The court documents were discussed in depth in older versions of the thread on MW. Feel free to read it at leasure but it's a massive thread.

The way I understand it, the current status quo after the lawsuit in Japan is in short: Big West/Studio Nue and Tatsunoko share the copyright to SDFM, Big West and SN own the moral rights which is pretty much the designs and the right to make derivatives (aka authors right), Tatsunoko owns the economic rights which translates in them owning the footage of SDFM. Tats controls the distribution of SDFM ouside of Japan and has the world wide merchandise licensing rights again outside of Japan due to the original production agreements. Which in turn allowed HG as a licensee to use the footage and edit it but not create any derivatives other then merchandise (which oddly contains books comics and videogames). This explains why games like RT: Battlecry can use Macross character designs but RT animated sequels like Sentinels and Shadow Chronicles can't.

The problem with Harmony Gold is that they trademarked the name "Macross" in 1999-2001 in North America and most of Western Europe. The trademarks allows HG to prevent the sale of any shows or merchandise using the name Macross in these countries without HGs consent. Big West tried to get the trademark in the US at the same time as HG but the trademark agency awarded it to HG. HG recently prolonged all those trademarks (they last 10 years) to the end of the next decade.
Bri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-12, 23:53   Link #49
Tak
Catholic = Cat addiction?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
Which in turn allowed HG as a licensee to use the footage and edit it but not create any derivatives other then merchandise (which oddly contains books comics and videogames). This explains why games like RT: Battlecry can use Macross character designs but RT animated sequels like Sentinels and Shadow Chronicles can't.
However, I have noticed a lack of new merchandise and/or other relevant materials being created as of late, perhaps it had something to do with the decision of the Japanese court, which barred Tats from creating any derivatives. Tats did attempt to appeal, but failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
Big West tried to get the trademark in the US at the same time as HG but the trademark agency awarded it to HG. HG recently prolonged all those trademarks (they last 10 years) to the end of the next decade.
Not surprising, HG is an American corporation, and Big West at the time was standing on shaky legal grounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
And welcome back, Tak. Get yourself over to the light novel thread, where important developments have happened. I want your opinions on them.
Define 'important developments', because I have very specific and narrow requirements, such as Alto and Sheryl having kids...

- Tak
__________________
BLESSED IS OUR GOD, THE LORD OF MIRACLES, FOR HE HAS SUPPLIED AN ENTIRE BATTALION WITH JUST FIVE ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TWO GRENADES!!

Remember, the toes you step on today may be connected to the @ss you have to kiss tomorrow.
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-13, 04:28   Link #50
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Define 'important developments', because I have very specific and narrow requirements, such as Alto and Sheryl having kids...- Tak
How about confirmation of them having made love during episode 22, plus a very sweet "after the fact" scene being in the light novels?
__________________
magnuskn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-13, 11:22   Link #51
Tak
Catholic = Cat addiction?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
How about confirmation of them having made love during episode 22, plus a very sweet "after the fact" scene being in the light novels?
Well, see... I knew that. In fact, I was the only person to stand firm on the belief here, remember?

- Tak
__________________
BLESSED IS OUR GOD, THE LORD OF MIRACLES, FOR HE HAS SUPPLIED AN ENTIRE BATTALION WITH JUST FIVE ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TWO GRENADES!!

Remember, the toes you step on today may be connected to the @ss you have to kiss tomorrow.
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-13, 11:57   Link #52
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Well, see... I knew that. In fact, I was the only person to stand firm on the belief here, remember?

- Tak
Rather the first person ( although in chat, not on the board ), but as soon as I got convinced, I stayed there right with you.
__________________
magnuskn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-19, 11:51   Link #53
ecs05norway
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Last year, Catalyst Game Labs (successors to FASA as owners of the Battletech franchise) announced that they had received licenses to resume use of the anime-derived mecha designs they had dropped use of. At first they stated they had recovered licenses for all of the original art, including the items from Macross, Dougram, and other licensees.

They then retracted that announcement, stating that they were not able to proceed with the Macross designs but did confirm their rights to the other licensed material.

Part of the announcement stated that they had been presented with what purported to be a closed legal decision granting Palladium Books permanent exclusive rights to any Macross-derived game material in the US.

Does anyone have more detail on this? Verification?
ecs05norway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-19, 12:26   Link #54
BetoJR
A blast from the past
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 46
Eh? Palladium Books? They ever did publish that book on the Shadow Chronicles?
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-08-27, 07:21   Link #55
Gravitas Free Zone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Looks like I'll wake the thread after seven years.

Stuff happened! Harmony Gold visited the courts again and went after Harebrained Schemes regarding the new Battletech game and there's been rather a lot of confusion. But documents surfaced regarding arbitration with Tatsunoko and Tatsunoko's countersuit and... good grief.

Here's a looooooooong reading of documents. Summaries and such around the 50 minute mark.

YouTube
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
Gravitas Free Zone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-08-27, 23:58   Link #56
Convoy
Knight of Infinity
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Island 1, Macross Frontier
Wow oh wow. Could Harmony Gold's reign of terror finally come to an actual end in our lifetimes?
Convoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-08-29, 18:41   Link #57
Gravitas Free Zone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Convoy View Post
Wow oh wow. Could Harmony Gold's reign of terror finally come to an actual end in our lifetimes?
I'm somewhere between "...maybe?" and "I'll believe it when I see it."

Since no small part of the entire legal FUBAR is Tatsunoko's own fault from ~34 years ago, there is a touch of schadenfreude there from watching them end up in the middle of this thing.
Gravitas Free Zone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-08-29, 20:57   Link #58
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
Gotta watch that video when I get back to Germany, I got a pretty terrible connection here. Anyone wants to summarize?
__________________
magnuskn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-08-30, 16:45   Link #59
Father Hentai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Gotta watch that video when I get back to Germany, I got a pretty terrible connection here. Anyone wants to summarize?
I copy this from mechwarrior online unit site that tries to explain why HG is bitchin' around again. I wrap it in spoiler tags, as the summary is in German:

Spoiler for HG vs. ... whoever has/is using mecha designs which are far identical to RT franchise...:
__________________
Born the same day as Satoshi Urushihara... Ill fated?
Father Hentai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-08-30, 18:09   Link #60
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
Thanks, very helpful!
__________________
magnuskn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.