Learning Japanese

[iLney]

Thx everyone ^^

BTW, does this make any sense?
句 は 獏.

(Just try to utilize the stuffs I've learn)

[Ja-Y-Ce]

Originally Posted by iLney

Thx everyone ^^

BTW, does this make any sense?
句 は 獏.

(Just try to utilize the stuffs I've learn)

Ermm, no?

I would thought that 句 = sentence, phrase while 獏 = tapir (animal) - if i am taking in the translation literally?

not too sure am i right or wrong though.

[iLney]

Ehh, it's supposed to be: this phrase is vague

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by iLney

Ehh, it's supposed to be: this phrase is vague

1: This is where grammar (bolded) is needed, particles and all.
2: Unlike chinese 1 kanji doesn't equate to 1 meaning or have 1 reading. (sadly)
So words for 'phrase'... well there are a few, but it's usually composed of two kanji for more depth.

An example for that I suppose would be:
この語句は不分明です。
Kono goku wa fubunmei desu.

With Japanese again, sadly I find there to be like 3-4 ways (or more) to say 1 word in english because they specify it to each situation or noun.
(example is the word 'full')

The house is full.
The carpark is full.
I am full.

Translates to:
満員 (man-in) = full of members
満車 (main-sha) = full of cars
おなかがいっぱい (onaka ga ippai) = stomach is full

So to say 'this phrase is vague' - depends.
Is it a phrase from a poem? An idiom expression? Because in Japanese, there are seperate words for each one, lol. Always have to find the most suitable word to match the situation, this also bring extra pain for Eng->Jp translations, so I don't do them as often as I should. >.>
(least not by text)

Makes learning vocab a bitch in my opinion. I'd think i've learnt the word for something, only to see it has like 10 branches of it depending on the situation with natives will use naturally. x.x
(I love this language, really I do!)

But that's where kanji become this puzzle game which I like, gives clues as to what it may mean if you know the meanings for each character.

[Ja-Y-Ce]

Originally Posted by iLney

Ehh, it's supposed to be: this phrase is vague

yup, actually i thought it should be something along what Mystique has mentioned この語句（ごく）は不分明です or 句は不明瞭である

or errmm, is "獏" the wrong kanji to be used? Are you trying to use this "朦"? Sorry, is the closest kanji that i can think now to be something along the line of being "blur" "vague"

or maybe there is really such an idiom or poem. If so, maybe you can type the full sentence out.

[iLney]

EEK....

But it sounds fun ^_^
for this:

この語句は不分明です。

kono (This) word phrase wa(as for) ? ? bright desu (is).

=> this sentence is not very clear? Right?

Originally Posted by Ja-Y-Ce

yup, actually i thought it should be something along what Mystique has mentioned この語句（ごく）は不分明です or 句は不明瞭である

or errmm, is "獏" the wrong kanji to be used? Are you trying to use this "朦"? Sorry, is the closest kanji that i can think now to be something along the line of being "blur" "vague"

Oh, I see.... I mess up something. I just cpy paste from my Word using a reading found on google.

It is supposed to be "water" + "graveyard" = vague. Instead of "pack of wild dog" + graveyard

[Ja-Y-Ce]

Originally Posted by iLney

EEK....

But it sounds fun ^_^
for this:

この語句は不分明です。

kono (This) word phrase wa(as for) ? ? bright desu (is).

=> this sentence is not very clear? Right?

不分明 = obscure;vague

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by iLney

EEK....

But it sounds fun ^_^
for this:

この語句は不分明です。

kono (This) word phrase wa(as for) ? ? bright desu (is).

=> this sentence is not very clear? Right?

Literally fubunmei = not clear, but in english it can be written simply as 'vague' (the flip side of the coin)
That makes translation flow a bit smoother, something i keep tabs on when watching fansubs.

the は is a subject particle, I can only suggest you reading up on official texts for it, rather than risk explaining it wrong ^^;;
が　is another subject particle.
Here's a tip, try to not literally break down each part to fit the english structure cause it'll never work, lol.

Just remember it as a whole, see the pattern structures and memorise and utilise those. Japanese has that advantage over English, I believe, they're more fixed with their grammatical structures.
この＜subject>は<adjective>です。
or
これは<adjective><subject>です。

the first being:
This phrase is vague.
the second being
This is an unclear/vague phrase.

[iLney]

Oh, I see. This is the word for vague that I learn: "漠"

BTW, "不分明" I recognize "bright" (the last kanji). The first two must mean something like "not"?

[Mystique]

The key kanji there is 不
That character is useless on its own, but negates a hell of a lot of words in japanese when joined. Look up the word 分明 and see what you get
Also if you type in 不 in the dictionary, check out all the other character combos that are attached to it and see their meaning in english.
In this aspect, is where kanji becomes a little fun for me.

It's also kinda like the english equiv of 'un'

Unlucky
Unhappy
Unclear
etc....

edit:

Originally Posted by iLney

Oh, I see. This is the word for vague that I learn: "漠"

I see what u mean by that kanji, but like I said, it usually has to be joined to another kanji for deeper meaning:
漠然 【ばくぜん】 (adj-na,n) obscure, vague, equivocal, (P)
漠然と 【ばくぜんと】 (adv) vaguely, (P)
漠然たる 【ばくぜんたる】 (adj-t) vague, obscure, hazy
漠漠 【ばくばく】 (adj-na,n) vast, vague, obscure

So you can say 'bakubaku' (go onomateopeia!) xD
or 'bakuzen' - but i have a feeling that 'bakuzen' would only be used in formal situations like news reports or essays. Need a native to confirm for me though
A single kanji in Japanese tends to give you the nauance rather than an actual single word in english.

[Ja-Y-Ce]

Originally Posted by Mystique

The key kanji there is 不
That character is useless on its own, but negates a hell of a lot of words in japanese when joined. Look up the word 分明 and see what you get
Also if you type in 不 in the dictionary, check out all the other character combos that are attached to it and see their meaning in english.
It's kinda the english equiv of 'un'
Unlucky
Unhappy
Unclear
etc....

In this aspect, is where kanji becomes a little fun for me.

yup, cos literally "不" means "not" - which is negative...

Anyway, out of curiosity - why is "漠" = "water" + "graveyard"?

the "water" i can understand but why is it "graveyard"? unless, you are talking about this "墓"?

[iLney]

Ah, I see. One more question.

If you write "この語句は不分明です" for example, without any space between, will it cause confusions? Like ....の.....は..... In this case, I recognize <kono> but what happens in other cases?

[7thMethuselah]

Originally Posted by iLney

Ah, I see. One more question.

If you write "この語句は不分明です" for example, without any space between, will it cause confusions? Like ....の.....は..... In this case, I recognize <kono> but what happens in other cases?

The japanese don't use spaces at all . The structure of a sentence is easy to recognise thanks to the kanji. The kaji make up the core building blocks if you like : the nouns, the verbs etc. The hiragana connect them to give the sentence a meaning, I'm referring to particles which point out the function of words in a sentence, and the hiragana used to conjugate verbs and words. As such in a full japanese text it is very easy to see where one words ends and where the next starts.

[iLney]

Oh I see.

So instead of わたしは, I must write 吾は ? (That's the only "I" I know now).

Thx

[Ja-Y-Ce]

Originally Posted by iLney

Oh I see.

So instead of わたしは , I must write 吾は ? (That's the only "I" I know now).

Thx

Guess we need a native Japanese here for more clarification on the hiragana and the kanji.

As for me, i would thought that both are ok and it depends on each individual's preference - as long as you know what is their meaning.

Eg. there are certain books that will simply just use " わたしは" but there are some that will use as "私は". Or even maybe "べんきょうします" --> "勉強します"

Regardless of what, we (as the students learning Japanese Language) "ought" to know both of them?

[Alchemist007]

私は is what I've been told to use in my class, after learning kanji a bit.

[Synria_]

Quick question here, I have audiobooks that I play on my car and I listen whenever i'm on the road.

Something that i noticed from the opening as far as the numbers go, they pronounce 6 (in my ears) as LOKU. The section im on is about time. So they go something like lokuji ka ischjiini (6 or 7 o'clock).

This is where I am stuck because I can't seem to hear it properly. Does 6 have the R or L sound and as far as 7 goes, I hear it as Issschi (s sounds like when you say hiss)... or does 7 start with the "sh" sound rather than how I have it starting with a plain "I" sound...

Thanks

[jedinat]

Originally Posted by Synria_

This is where I am stuck because I can't seem to hear it properly. Does 6 have the R or L sound and as far as 7 goes, I hear it as Issschi (s sounds like when you say hiss)... or does 7 start with the "sh" sound rather than how I have it starting with a plain "I" sound...

The Japanese "r" sound is something between R and L... pronounce "r" but hit the top of your mouth with your tongue. (6 is roku) 7 is shichi (or nana)... but the "sh" is kind of soft, sort of between "s" and "sh"

[Guernsey]

Originally Posted by Guernsey

I have a question for translators or other people who speak the language fluently to ask this question: How do you pronounce English, Spanish, French, German and other names from other countries and nationalities in Japanese? I had only seen a few shows (forgive me if I only based this off the anime I watch) but how would lets say a voice seiyuu pronounce them?

Edit: Forgive me, I didn't realize you guys were already doing that already but I have another question on how to discern certain Japanese dialects.

I just want to repeat that question as well as ask this: Can singiing along with a song in a different language helps you learn it better? Also, where do I find informarion on how to pronounce numbers in Japanese.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Guernsey

I just want to repeat that question as well as ask this: Can singiing along with a song in a different language helps you learn it better? Also, where do I find informarion on how to pronounce numbers in Japanese.

In Japanese.... song lyrics are "poetic" and often *terrible* grammatically. They stick words, motifs, and imagery together hodge-podge to create a feeling (often splashing Engrish in for coolness). Not a great place to learn the language, but not bad for "spot the word" gaming.