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Old 2014-11-08, 11:02   Link #41
oompa loompa
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Eh... Personal opinion, guys?

Why do i have a feeling i just touch on some Blizzard fans nerve here. Like "because it's released by XYZ, it can't be wrong" argument.

Still think the design looks fairly cheap and the character theme all messed up.
No you're absolutely right, but that is their style. As of now its PC only, and they want to reach a wide audience, so the game will probably have low reqs; same thing with SC2 and its not so great visuals. Because the visuals aren't so great, they often have really distinct cartoony designs, it's just their thing. If you're really into awesome realistic graphics, blizzard games are not what you want.

As an avid blizzard fan who visits a lot of the forums, it's also true that their games just aren't the quality that they used to be, the original WoW was probably their last really good game.
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Old 2014-11-08, 11:05   Link #42
Last Sinner
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The only thing of Blizzard that one could say is similar to LoL is Heroes of the Storm.

The posts I'm seeing around is that Overwatch is Blizzard's pitch to a [b]new generation.[/url] Which is fair enough - WoW has been around for a decade and is mainly the long-term players. Starcraft is also for the keepers. Diablo started in the old school days. Hearthstone and Overwatch are Blizzard adapting to how the gaming world has changed and getting the timing right - unlike with Heroes of the Storm.

@Risingstar - You don't seem to get the notion that the more you refine visuals, the less people can play it because their PCs aren't jazzed up. To get to more people, you have to give them a level they can reach. My PC is nearing 6 years running and it will still be a while before I can afford to replace it. However, functionally, it has been just fine and plays the things I want to play. No one is disputing the validity of your opinion.

@Oompa - Personally, I felt WoW finally hit its stride most in WotLK. But that's me. I did play from early vanilla but there were plenty of issues and limited options back then. Wrath and Cata fixed so many of them but I will freely admit that the later parts of Pandaria and what's coming with Warlords of Draenor made me walk away 11 months ago.
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Last edited by Last Sinner; 2014-11-08 at 11:15.
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Old 2014-11-08, 11:31   Link #43
Jazzrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Eh... Personal opinion, guys?

Why do i have a feeling i just touch on some Blizzard fans nerve here. First clue is "because it's released by XYZ, it can't be wrong" argument.

Still think the design looks fairly cheap and the character theme all messed up.
Hey if you don't want replies, don't post. You want to call it cheap, iterate on it instead of thinking it's fanboys being defensive when i said it's not.
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Old 2014-11-08, 11:35   Link #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
Hey if you don't want replies, don't post. You want to call it cheap, iterate on it instead of thinking it's fanboys being defensive when i said it's not.
Funny, I thought Blizzard forums were a haven for raging against Blizzard. Or in-game. Every fanbase has blindly loyal fans but I wouldn't call theirs to be a majority of that.
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Old 2014-11-08, 11:47   Link #45
oompa loompa
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Funny, I thought Blizzard forums were a haven for raging against Blizzard. Or in-game. Every fanbase has blindly loyal fans but I wouldn't call theirs to be a majority of that.
TeamLiquid is a little better, but goddamn are the battle.net forums cancerous; you're absolutely right about them raging on blizzard. I still like TL because there are a very large amount of posters who make great posts, and put ludicrous amounts of effort into their analysis. I also will take back what I said earlier and agree with you; the first few WoW expansions were pretty great, maybe it was because I was a kid, but for me vanilla WoW just blew me away. It also helped that I loved WC3 and the universe in general. OTOH, SC2 butchered one of the best sci-fi stories in games; I mean I remember when Kerrigan was voted the best video game villain on gamespot, and then they turned her into an emo.. thing
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Old 2014-11-08, 11:48   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oompa loompa View Post
TeamLiquid is a little better, but goddamn are the battle.net forums cancerous; you're absolutely right about them raging on blizzard. I still like TL because there are a very large amount of posters who make great posts, and put ludicrous amounts of effort into their analysis. I also will take back what I said earlier and agree with you; the first few WoW expansions were pretty great.
All good.

And agreed, TeamLiquid are a decent community. I've found them to be a useful source of info for Hearthstone.
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Old 2014-11-08, 12:09   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Funny, I thought Blizzard forums were a haven for raging against Blizzard. Or in-game. Every fanbase has blindly loyal fans but I wouldn't call theirs to be a majority of that.
No, that's called the vocal minority. It's the same for every game/product/services, only a small fraction of the userbase visits the forum and even smaller portion of that actually post on it.
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Old 2014-11-08, 12:19   Link #48
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I wrote this off as soon as I read team-based shooter. I dislike TF2 and Unreal but I'm glad I forced myself to watch the trailer. It looks really fun. Barely any guns.
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Old 2014-11-08, 15:12   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
Also, why the MOBA comparisons? Have they mentioned that specifically? The only FPS MOBA I know is SMITE, but it still has the usual MOBA fair with minions, items, lanes and so on. This has none of that. In fact I see King of the Hill and Escort, which are straight up FPS modes. Hell, the game has more in common with Unreal Tournament than League of Legends.
It's not so much the gameplay, but idea that the game is centered around specific hero-based ability sets. In that regard, I believe this is blizzard's attempt at bringing that particular aspect of MOBAs and fighters, along with intricacies of individual play-styles and matchups, into a shooter.

It's because of this that I think it might be wiser to approach the balance of the game from the perspective of a MOBA. Selection and composition would be essential parts of the strategy, especially if it becomes that case that heroes are single-pick only. The community would probably have to get involved in a tier list if (more like when) the roster is expanded.
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Old 2014-11-08, 15:15   Link #50
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Man, Chris Metzen REALLY wanted to make this game He sounded really enthusiastic when he talked about doing something not cynical or dark lol

EDIT:

Quote:
The child in the cinematic made Chris Metzen's inner six year old do cartwheels. He hopes everyone loves the game, but almost doesn't care.
After seeing the story pitch, Metzen said "If we don't make this story, I don't want to work here". Everyone was excited for Overwatch.
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Old 2014-11-08, 16:24   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
Hey if you don't want replies, don't post. You want to call it cheap, iterate on it instead of thinking it's fanboys being defensive when i said it's not.
Sure.

Can you tell me what is the theme/lore behind those introduced characters? Good character design should immediately give you a hint about their story, their background, or even the lore behind their world.

Here however we have a bunch of characters mixed between human (with different cultures and ethnics,) other creatures, alien races, cyborg, robot. Using uncoordinated set of weapons. Randomly team up with each other for unknown reasons. To fight against another team of similar mixtures for unknown reasons. In a tournament set up to win some unknown things, on map that neither futuristic nor fantasy.

What we were having seems to be a case of a team decided on game mechanics first (sniper guy, booster guy, turret summon guys, stealth guys...etc..), THEN design game characters to fit such mechanisms (stealth guy is assassin looking, tank guy is huge with full body armour, turret guy is a dwarf), before even write a story or universe lore trying to fit the characters in.

That or the set up was depending on a the lore of a very complicated universe that no one is familiar with, and the game definitely won't have time to explain
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Old 2014-11-08, 17:13   Link #52
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Sure.

Can you tell me what is the theme/lore behind those introduced characters? Good character design should immediately give you a hint about their story, their background, or even the lore behind their world.
Superhero comic inspired characters. A mix of heroic and villainous characters of various backgrounds set in a comic book style fantasy world.

There, that wasn't so hard now was it, and I didn't even have to pull out the synopsis.
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Old 2014-11-08, 17:20   Link #53
oompa loompa
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Superhero comic inspired characters. A mix of heroic and villainous characters of various backgrounds.
Exactly, I can agree with this

Some were pretty obvious; Indian Engineer, (y'know, because we're all doctors, lawyers, and engineers) obviously a tribute to portal. Japanese dude with old style-bow saying old style things ---> samurai, monkey dude was a tribute to beast (I think thats his name) from X-men, dwarf who is a craftsman, tribute to the many dwarven characters from WC universe, and thats just off the top of my head. Except tracer. As far as I'm concerned that (insert expletive) has nothing going for her. I expect the characters to follow their archetypes personality wise too.

As far as lore goes.. I don't even know if the game will have a single player, there doesn't seem to be any sign of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post

What we were having seems to be a case of a team decided on game mechanics first (sniper guy, booster guy, turret summon guys, stealth guys...etc..), THEN design game characters to fit such mechanisms (stealth guy is assassin looking, tank guy is huge with full body armour, turret guy is a dwarf), before even write a story or universe lore trying to fit the characters in.
Well, yes. If it's a multiplayer game only that would make a lot more sense right? Tell me if I'm wrong, but surely some of the dota and LoL characters seem random too?

What I will say is that it seems really different from the other blizzard games made so far. Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo have incredibly rich lore behind them, this seems the polar opposite; the setting is super generic and the characters are heavily (and intentionally) influenced by comic book and game characters
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Old 2014-11-08, 17:33   Link #54
Chaos2Frozen
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No single player, only mutliplayer.

Metzen talks about exploring the story outside the game. This could mean anything but my speculation base on their wording is that they're probably thinking of an animation series or other medias.

They have been flexing their animation muscles in WoW lately so it seems like a natural progression.
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Old 2014-11-08, 17:46   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oompa loompa View Post
Some were pretty obvious; Indian Engineer, (y'know, because we're all doctors, lawyers, and engineers) obviously a tribute to portal...
It would have worked just as well for her to be the medic... but what they did 'makes sense' in that the woman who is, is Swiss, and that country as I recall is where the Red Cross is headquartered.

Quote:
...monkey dude was a tribute to beast (I think thats his name) from X-men...
Correct; that is the nom de guerre you were looking for (with Hank McCoy being his actual name). You could also draw the parallel to Bruce Banner for obvious reasons...

Quote:
...dwarf who is a craftsman, tribute to the many dwarven characters from WC universe...
Almost too obvious, especially with what his capstone skill is called. Having this role be filled by a Scotswoman would've been an amusing nod to Marjorie Scott.

Quote:
As far as lore goes.. I don't even know if the game will have a single player, there doesn't seem to be any sign of that.
Well, there's enough lore between the character bios and the cinematic trailer to give one a good idea of the setting. And if they want to add a single-player survival challenge at some point, it'd be completely justified in-universe as a VR training session or somesuch.
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Old 2014-11-08, 17:58   Link #56
Chaos2Frozen
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A summary (lol) of the Overwatch creative panel from a while ago.

It's a big one

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...atch-Origins#_

Spoiler for size:




Spoiler for Q&A:
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Old 2014-11-09, 02:30   Link #57
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Superhero comic inspired characters. A mix of heroic and villainous characters of various backgrounds set in a comic book style fantasy world.

There, that wasn't so hard now was it, and I didn't even have to pull out the synopsis.
That falls under "the set up was depending on the lore of a very complicated universe that no one is familiar with, and the game definitely won't have time to explain."


It likes you show an Avenger movie to a guy who doesn't know and can't access to Marvel Universe movies or comics. He will pose the same question. Why a thunder God using magic, partner with a cyborg, and a green monster, and a government spy, and a soldiers trying to fight up bad guys of an ice God, a robot, an ex-scientist, and a government assassin. What is their intention? Why do they even agree to work together.

But if the Avengers have a clear goal of "protecting humanity" under SHIELD to at least get the audience in the same track. We don't even have the generic of "one side bad, the other side good" here. Just some generic character design chosen to.. fight against each other, in a tournament for some random reason (money, frame, elixir of youth)?
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Old 2014-11-09, 02:43   Link #58
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
That falls under "the set up was depending on a the lore of a very complicated universe that no one is familiar with, and the game definitely won't have time to explain."


It likes you show an Avenger movie to a guy who doesn't know a thing about Marvel Universe. He will pose the same question. Why a thunder God using magic, partner with a cyborg, and a green monster, and a government spy, and a soldiers trying to fight up bad guys of an ice God, a robot, an ex-scientist, and a government assassin. What is their intention? Why do they even agree to work together.

But if the Avengers have a clear goal of "protecting humanity" to at least get the audience in the same track. We don't even have the generic of "one side bad, the other side good" here. Just some generic character design chosen to.. fight against each other, i guess?

Avengers? Why not say Guardians of the Galaxy? Now that was something very few had heard of, and guess what? Most people still roll with it. "Oh it's a super hero movie", "Oh it's aliens in space".

I'm pretty sure anyone could tell there were two sides in that trailer.

I don't really see how these characters were generic, I mean- Robot Monk? Japanese Archer? Armored Gorilla?

Actually I'm not even sure why all this is an issue; this is a multiplayer game first which I might not like but it is what it is and there won't be a campaign. The backstory of the setting has already been told to us, the back story of a particular hero has also been revealed. And they were already planning on some means to tell this story outside of the game. So eventually all of this would be covered.
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Old 2014-11-09, 02:45   Link #59
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I'm not entirely sure I understand what the problem risingstar has with this game is honestly. Something about a lack of plot when that isn't even necessary in this kind of game?

I'd have to strongly disagree about the generic character designs though. They seem extremely varied to me and don't look like each other at all.~
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Old 2014-11-09, 03:04   Link #60
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Avengers? Why not say Guardians of the Galaxy? Now that was something very few had heard of, and guess what? Most people still roll with it. "Oh it's a super hero movie", "Oh it's aliens in space".

I'm pretty sure anyone could tell there were two sides in that trailer.

I don't really see how these characters were generic, I mean- Robot Monk? Japanese Archer? Armored Gorilla?
That's why they spent half of the movie exploring about the background of each of them. I will give Blizzard this if each of the Pvp map was designed to tell the story of each character involved. But chance of that to happen?

How can you not seeing any of them generic and full of cliche?
  • archer: traditional weapon (bow), Asians, Yakuza tatoo, samurai hair, wearing that judogi~ish dress. It's like the designer went and google "Japan" and pick whatever come up to put into his design.
  • assassin guy: in black, hoof, white mask, smoke bomb, even have a shredder~ish hand gloves.
  • beast-like character: a gorilla, give him a full amour cause it was never done before except in pretty much any scifi or fantasy setting
  • mechanic-like: dwarf, with dwarf beard, robotic arm, even over-face soldering protection
  • healer: angel, with white hair, white and golden theme dress, and even a half halo on it.
  • sniper: dark elf
  • magic user: Ghandi robot
  • tank paladin: Big hammer. Checked. Full amour . Checked. Massive oversize. Checked
  • Booster guy/girl: gundam-ish looking. With missle barrages from shoulders to boost

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
I'm not entirely sure I understand what the problem risingstar has with this game is honestly. Something about a lack of plot when that isn't even necessary in this kind of game?

I'd have to strongly disagree about the generic character designs though. They seem extremely varied to me and don't look like each other at all.~
Why the lack of theme and plot acceptable as long as the PvP works?.

I blame COD and Battlefield as main culprits for shooting game to have a single player campaign of 5-6 hours, and every FPS moves to multiplayer-focused nowadays

Edit: Well to be fair, now think back, i guess the same argument was used in echi anime, and there is no need for plots or character designs as long as they have bewbs. Guess modern FPS is moving in that direction
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