2013-06-08, 18:09 | Link #28761 |
temporary safeguard
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Germany
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They are collecting data.
The data crunching can happen now, later, never, or whenever you become a person of interest for anyone with influence power to start up the crunching. Also their data collecting can be about one thing now, but that can and will surely change in the future. The data will still be there for that new purpose. We can not know yet, what implication our records will have later on. This has little to do with 'privacy', hurt feelings, or 'if it bothers you'. This is about power. Knowledge is power. With the right information, you can rule over anyone, pressure anyone, shut down any opposition. I think we are right to be concerned about it. On the other hand this is hardly news. You kept that thing up and running after all. Now the listening simply got privatized. |
2013-06-08, 18:54 | Link #28763 |
blinded by blood
Author
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They're collecting metadata. Not actual data. If they want to access the actual data, they have to get a court order--this is nothing new, it's been going on for years. Where were ya'll back then, when the Patriot Act first went into play?
The reason nobody really cares much about this is because we can't do anything to stop it. We're jaded and dead to it all. I read about this and I didn't even get outraged, though this was partially because I knew the headlines to be exaggerating and inflammatory. I just don't care. I have more important things to worry about--like putting food on the table. Everything I post on Facebook is public, anyway, and completely meaningless and/or inane. We're tired of living in fear. It's very stressful and severely impacts your quality of life. What are we supposed to do against this sort of thing? We can't do anything. Idiots keep voting these other idiots back into office. Nothing's going to change. The system's rigged; the hens are selling their chicks to the fox so he doesn't even have to raid the henhouse. So yeah. I don't care. I really, really don't. I don't have the energy to care. I've been poor, homeless, ground down by the system in the last seven years. I just don't give any fucks anymore.
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2013-06-08, 19:40 | Link #28764 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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Pretty much. Screwing over citizens' rights is the only thing both political parties agree on unanimously. You can't even vote against them, due to how corrupt it all is. |
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2013-06-08, 20:20 | Link #28767 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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And to me it's sickening how you keep bringing your bias from other countries' policies and standards into a discussion about the rights US citizens have. This is not Korea, it's not Japan, it's not China, etc. This is the USA, and citizens have rights.
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2013-06-08, 20:25 | Link #28768 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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I live next door to the US, you know, and even quite a few Canadians believe Americans have an entitlement issue. Heck, I grew up in the States, so where does your accusation of "bias from other countries' policies" come into play here?
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2013-06-08, 20:33 | Link #28769 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
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Possibly how you used to always parade around (or state it and then others would parade it around to hype you up) that you were Xth in line to the crown or whatever for Korea and/or Japan. Further how many of your posts when it comes to international incidents seem to be from the perspective of a South Korean, especially when it has to do with the general Korea/Japan/China region.
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2013-06-08, 20:51 | Link #28772 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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Quote:
Given that any organization is going to need a warrant to get the hands on whatever was collected, there is nothing substantially different from the authorities needing to get a warrant to go through your bank/transaction records. In short, everything is within the rights that are protected. |
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2013-06-08, 21:09 | Link #28773 |
blinded by blood
Author
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The word "entitlement" should not be used in regards to government, period. We've paid for those rights; most of us in tax dollars, some of us in blood.
The government is made up of people just like us--they aren't inherently better or worse than any other random American human. You can call it "entitlement" when they start giving stuff away for free. Of course, this will never happen. Nothing in life is free.
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2013-06-08, 21:47 | Link #28774 |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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The way I interpret what you're saying is that Americans have it better than the citizens of many other countries, and they should basically suck it up. It's true that Americans have it better than many others out there, but in my view, your thinking is backwards. Americans shouldn't stop making demands because other people have it worse. People everywhere should be striving for a higher standard of governance, not a worse one. It's not some kind of race or competition.
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2013-06-08, 22:10 | Link #28775 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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Brother-in-law of Chinese Nobel winner jailed for 11 years
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...95800R20130609 Mississippi aims to curb teen pregnancy with umbilical blood law http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9560SL20130607
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2013-06-08, 23:27 | Link #28776 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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Quote:
Now, if we have the situation where the government does not need to go through the regular process to obtain information, then it's an infringement of rights. Before then, there is no particular violation, and all this uproar is nothing but entitlement. |
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2013-06-08, 23:36 | Link #28777 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
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U.S. Internet Spying Draws Anger, and Envy:
"Europe’s reaction Friday to news of a sweeping international digital surveillance program by the U.S. government ranged from the outrage of citizens and politicians to the muted envy of some law enforcement agencies on this side of the Atlantic." "While privacy advocates condemned the U.S. surveillance program, official reaction from European capitals was more muted. That might be in part, analysts said, because some governments already have, or would like to wield, similar powers to monitor Internet communications." "“There will be a lot of jealousy among services that the U.S. has these powers,” said Simone Halink, a spokeswoman for Bits of Freedom, a Dutch digital rights group. “The fact that a powerful government is doing this, and saying it is doing it in accordance with the law, is alarming and a reason for increased vigilance.”" See: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/08/bu...anted=all&_r=0 |
2013-06-08, 23:55 | Link #28778 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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My uproar personally is that all of this information collecting has helped prevent what crimes, exactly? Stopped terrorists? Nope. Stopped shootings? Nope. Any crime? Nope. All of this information, and they're just as helpless to protect their citizens as they were a decade ago. So what's the point of spending all of this time and money for something with no tangible benefit? Surely we have more productive things that can be done with our limited resources. Or is this another case of feeding the beast? Homeland Security is now a money making business, just like the military industrial complex. Contractors rake in millions, if not billions, helping the Government tap phones and collect data. Clearly it's in someones interest to keep all this going even if there's no public benefit to it.
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2013-06-09, 00:11 | Link #28779 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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This argument about entitlement and rights are humourous! Please continue! [/sarcasm]
Entitlement and rights are more or less the same thing. In this case of "cyberspying", it is more of the interpretation of liberty rights - the government thinks that it has the liberty rights to the information of the people, whereas the people think that they have claim rights to their personal information because it is known as "respect for human privacy" not to touch them; the words of liberty and claims are so inverse in a sense that the freedom of rights blur into gray. If it is taken in the context of Asia as GDB has highlighted, "rights" here is synonymous with "privilege" and both are not independent terms; thanks to a history of electing and allowing would-be megalomaniacs to rule over the indifferent crowd. In the West, power is challenged, but over in the East, power is feared. We all live in the same world with different concepts - apparently from the point of governance, sometimes "whatever works" can be taken out of hand. Quote:
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Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2013-06-09 at 00:25. |
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2013-06-09, 00:43 | Link #28780 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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