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Old 2018-10-12, 23:28   Link #521
Devaki
Kiseki no Yūsha
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
^^ @tiger yeah, the childhood love story were only added when it get serialized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
I said it is same pattern, not the same level.
it is the same level? nope.
it is the same pattern? yes.
also, it is not just childhood promise, but Author show us that Ichijou love Onodera for the entire series except the ending.
Having a wife who has been with you all time and having a childhood crush which you can't remember her identity years later definitely is not the same pattern at all.

You don't just develop another relationship while you have your wife in which you consciously choose to marry and has been living together as a family since then, unless it was forced marriage.

In Nisekoi case, they got separated and reunited years later but Raku doesn't remember who she was and it happen that the current girl he has a crush on is the promised girl, until Main Heroine came and break that premise
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Old 2018-10-12, 23:31   Link #522
wuhugm
Salted Tiger
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hell of Cliches
^That locket crap was so ridiculous that it was a wonder it didn't just get axed right off the bat

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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Btw Working! Got decesively finished without any sudden last chapter twists.
Working is in the list already~
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Old 2018-10-13, 00:55   Link #523
Hujan
One Who Search The Truth
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cloud in the Sky
^^it looked like we had different opinion on what the meaning of pattern,

IF there is a story of MC who rape prostitute and a story of MC who rape virgin, for me it has the same pattern, that is a story with rapist MC. but for you it is not, because the victim is different, one is used to sex while the other is not, it is not the same pattern for you.

or if there is a story about a cheating wife and another is cheating girlfriend, for me it has the same pattern that is a story with cheating partner, while for you it is not, because one is wife while the other is girlfriend.

in Nisekoi, the pattern for me is "MC love a girl, then new girl appear, MC change to love the new girl, and choose the new girl", so for me, no matter the story just crushing on a girl, or going out already or even married already, as long as the MC love the new girl, it is the same pattern for me, while it is not for you right?
so we just had a different opinion on the meaning of pattern.

@tiger, if you put it that way that the premise in Nisekoi is fake relationship then it is indeed a big farce with gigatic fillers. just that, IF Chitoge lose it will change from shit to masterpiece. at least for me.

EDIT : Somehow I remember again about this series, isn't KimiKiss qualify for this? of course it depend on who you consider as main heroine.
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Last edited by Hujan; 2018-10-13 at 01:08.
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Old 2018-10-13, 02:09   Link #524
wuhugm
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^Oh yeah, Kimikiss Pure Rouge added, Yuumi was the main heroine
Mao was more like the female MC

Nisekoi's childhood subplot is fake shit
You should not even think it as the premise
Like the title said, Nisekoi, Fake Love, It was always about Chitoge
Childhood plot is merely silly afterthought, no one is buying it
Had another girl except Chitoge won, then it might became surprise masterpiece
But no, it's just obvious trash
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Old 2018-10-13, 06:37   Link #525
Tenzen12
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I wonder. From moment Yumi was introduced everything abou
T her screemed shallow love interest just waiting to get dumped ". Possibility that she could be considered main heroine never even crossed my mind.

As for Working! I just wanted point it's there rightfully.
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Old 2018-10-13, 09:17   Link #526
wuhugm
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^No one was more prominent than Yuumi
Mao was but she behaved like MC
Just like Mikoto in Toaru
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Old 2018-10-13, 09:56   Link #527
Devaki
Kiseki no Yūsha
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
^^ @rain

I get what your point about the pattern, raping a prostitute or a virgin is still about raping, so does with cheating a wife or a girlfriend still about cheating, right?

It's just that I put my though based on this quote....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
rather make eternal love (like the premise of the story) win, he make new love win.
IF there is a sequel with the same pattern, the story will be like this.
Ichijou had married with Chitoge, then at his workplace, there is a new heroine suddenly appear that got close to him, in the end He realized that the one he truly love is the new girl, not his wife (just like what happen to Onodera).
Again, I assume you're comparing "what if" scenario above with the promised childhood love in Nisekoi, because the situation are different.

In Nisekoi Raku is literally forgot who is the promised girl's identity, while both he and Onodera likes each other but neither of them has yet to confess, so they're not even in boyfriend-girlfriend status, if one eventually fall in love with another person that's indeed finding a new love pattern for good and cannot be called as cheating because they're not tied by any relationship.

But your "what if" scenario is down right a cheating pattern and cannot be about finding a new love anymore, it's a common sense because married couple are tied by law and social weight, one cannot simply move on to another that easy in the name of love only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
or if there is a story about a cheating wife and another is cheating girlfriend, for me it has the same pattern that is a story with cheating partner, while for you it is not, because one is wife while the other is girlfriend.

in Nisekoi, the pattern for me is "MC love a girl, then new girl appear, MC change to love the new girl, and choose the new girl", so for me, no matter the story just crushing on a girl, or going out already or even married already, as long as the MC love the new girl, it is the same pattern for me, while it is not for you right?
so we just had a different opinion on the meaning of pattern.
Huh?? this sounds contradict each other....

So when a male MC love another girl outside his girlfriend/wife you still count it as finding a new love pattern.

But when a wife/girlfriend love another guy outside her husband/boyfriend is count as cheating pattern?? ok then.
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Old 2018-10-13, 10:14   Link #528
Tenzen12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuhugm View Post
^No one was more prominent than Yuumi
Mao was but she behaved like MC
Just like Mikoto in Toaru
Well Mikoto is pretty much closest thing to main heroine To aru have so it fits.

Also Yumi whole "prominent role" was really just being plot device for MC and Mao to get together. Jazz guy was more prominent then her even though he had same role.
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Old 2018-10-13, 11:05   Link #529
Hujan
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^^so we had a different opinion about a certain terms again.
this time it is about the word "cheating".
cheating for me is an 'act' not 'the feeling'.
people can cheat without feeling of love, for example a wife can have sex with her neighbor without loving him, and I still consider that as cheating.
while a husband can love another girl who is not his wife but not make a move on her and still faithful to his wife, isn't cheating for me. I know a person who is like that. he met his first love but don't make a move and ask his wife to marry again (polygami) but his wife didn't agree, and he choose to stay faithful to his wife, not met or contacting her again.
and I don't consider this as cheating.
so of course a husband or wife can found a new love without cheating.
for example, husband met a new worker (girl) in his workplace. they interact as a fellow worker, (un)fortunately, love sprouted from that interaction, and somehow he come to know that she also love him. so he divorce his wife and get together with his new love.
I don't consider that as cheating cause there is no 'act' of cheating, they just intearct like a co-worker when he is still someone else husband.
again, the problem is just our different opinion in the meaning of some words.
that's why I never say that cheating wife/girlfriend means she love another guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaki View Post
Huh?? this sounds contradict each other....

So when a male MC love another girl outside his girlfriend/wife you still count it as finding a new love pattern.

But when a wife/girlfriend love another guy outside her husband/boyfriend is count as cheating pattern?? ok then.
again, I never said that love another guy = cheating. I just said cheating wife/girlfriend, right?
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Old 2018-10-13, 13:29   Link #530
Devaki
Kiseki no Yūsha
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
^^ @rain

I'm don't know what kind of social situation and culture around you, but if you bring even slightest about polygamy then I won't continue this discussion any further.

Even politely asking your wife to do that practice is considered a serious betrayal depending on which society you are.

Secretly love someone else is also a betrayal against your spouse even if he/she doesn't know about it, this is not just a "different opinion", this is the basic social idea centered about marriage.

Because unlike dating, marriage is legalized and tied by law, furthermore it's should be about commitment between two people which mean once you seal deal/tied the knot, you're life partners for the rest of your life, there should never be question or room for the third person, ever.

Incompetent people who think they can still fall in love with another person after marriage should never be married in the first place.

Sometimes thing didn't worked out between two people and they may divorced, but the reason didn't always because there is the third person.

Notice how Anime/Manga in general you found the word "suki/like" (好き) is used all the time rather than "ai shiteru/ I love you" (愛してる) for a love confession, they simply didn't use the later because that word has deeper emotional meaning and need a certain amount of commitment to say it, usually only when you're ready for marriage.

Unlike the former which implying more about physical attraction, thus easier to say if your intention only to going out with that person for the time being.
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Old 2018-10-13, 14:16   Link #531
Tenzen12
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Well, I think there is difference between "secretely love" someone in sense of cherishing that feeling and simply feeling it. You can be attracted to someone else then your partner, you might be even able emotionaly connect with them it's not really something that can be controled easily, but ultimately loving someone means put them always on first place.

That's at least as I see it.
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Old 2018-10-14, 17:59   Link #532
Hujan
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Join Date: Feb 2016
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^^ I will stop this discussion when you clearly push your ideal toward me.
when you say
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaki View Post
I'm don't know what kind of social situation and culture around you
then you say
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaki View Post
Even politely asking your wife to do that practice is considered a serious betrayal depending on which society you are.

Secretly love someone else is also a betrayal against your spouse even if he/she doesn't know about it, this is not just a "different opinion", this is the basic social idea centered about marriage.
you clearly know that is depending on which society you are, polygamy can be betrayal, but also can be not. then you say basic social idea centered about marriage, without the word 'depending on which society you are' mean you push your society idea to me. asking polygamy is not betrayal but it is indeed hurting his wife feeling. I know many people who is in his 'second puberty' fall in love with other person, but they stay faithful.

at least I am agree with what Tenzen said,
'You can be attracted to someone else then your partner,' because we can't control the feeling but we can control the action.
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Old 2018-10-16, 17:57   Link #533
Devaki
Kiseki no Yūsha
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
^^ @rain

Of course we better stop.

Bringing polygamy is like a poison and would only make this long-long posts stray further, when the starting point of this debate are marriage life between two people and what you consider as cheating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
you clearly know that is depending on which society you are, polygamy can be betrayal, but also can be not. then you say basic social idea centered about marriage, without the word 'depending on which society you are' mean you push your society idea to me.
So why you said I push my ideal to you then?

Also you're mixing words, 1st quote about polygamy 2nd is about secretly love someone in standard marriage, choose one which you're going to reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
asking polygamy is not betrayal but it is indeed hurting his wife feeling. I know many people who is in his 'second puberty' fall in love with other person, but they stay faithful.
Sure, you do know about it after all.

If not on social level, then it's betrayal against individual's feeling, thanks for clarifying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Well, I think there is difference between "secretely love" someone in sense of cherishing that feeling and simply feeling it. You can be attracted to someone else then your partner, you might be even able emotionaly connect with them it's not really something that can be controled easily, but ultimately loving someone means put them always on first place.

That's at least as I see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
at least I am agree with what Tenzen said,
'You can be attracted to someone else then your partner,' because we can't control the feeling but we can control the action.
This why you should worry, it's better not to underestimate power of attraction, "cherish the little feeling" sounds noble on paper but without ability to find the expression for, it will grow stronger overtime and eventually become desire.

And that very desire need to fulfilled with physical action otherwise you're suffering yourself, then you know the rest what will going to happen.
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Old 2018-10-16, 18:22   Link #534
wuhugm
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Just stop it
Only the people involved will know how it feels
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