Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[tetsuo69]

Originally Posted by hero147

I wanted more Gundam. When I saw the PV for the new gundam series, I decided that I want more Gundam Seed. =)

No Diss to the new Gundam Age though. It just doesn't look like my slice of the pie.

i feel the same way it even makes 00 good to me.

[D-KLAC]

yes we need GS era to come back to SAVE us from this.

really give next year will be 10th year of GS maybe GS movie or something to GS era will rise?

[rakusukira]

I'd vote for a REMAKE of Destiny..

and please.... no more Shinn Asuka..

but they would need A LOT of money to do that.. anyway, GS ERA FTW!!!

[D-KLAC]

well depends give still more to do on GS era like prequel series besides saw trailer amv style of first class on GS era http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTKVkPi2AwA maybe do more past of GS from years before start of ep.1 of GS.

yet pull next generation series like star trek & degrassi focus on new generation with original still there now older.

also GS movie still owe us come i would even help on it.

really so much yet next year is 10th year of GS era.

truly GS era is the real gundam series of this generation.

[Washu-Chan]

Fukuda once said in a 2003 interview that Orb was supposed to represent his idealistic version of Japan.

What does he mean by that, and how was Orb in SEED different from Orb in Destiny?

[rakusukira]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Fukuda once said in a 2003 interview that Orb was supposed to represent his idealistic version of Japan.

What does he mean by that, and how was Orb in SEED different from Orb in Destiny?

ORB in SEED was very much true to their ideals.

1.) ORB must not meddle in affairs of war
2.) ORB must not attack another nation
3.) ORB must not side with either faction

in SEED, EAF was forcing ORB to submit to them so that they could use the Morgoenrate facilities to supply them with power in the military. ORB refused and Uzumi blew up Morgoenrate . however, ORB did meddle in affairs of war by joing the TSA and ended the war.


ORB in Destiny was not very true to ideals. Aside from the fact that an 18 year old girl is ruling the country, ORB was afraid to be attacked again by EAF. the other "royal" families that were part of the assembly of ORB were very much EAF sympathizers ( the Seiran family to be exact). Cagalli wasn't much of a capable leader that time and so crumbled under the influence of the assembly and succumbed to EAF. not to mention that running away in the Archangel only made matters worse because the Seiran family took over for a short while .

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by rakusukira

ORB in SEED was very much true to their ideals.

1.) ORB must not meddle in affairs of war
2.) ORB must not attack another nation
3.) ORB must not side with either faction

in SEED, EAF was forcing ORB to submit to them so that they could use the Morgoenrate facilities to supply them with power in the military. ORB refused and Uzumi blew up Morgoenrate . however, ORB did meddle in affairs of war by joing the TSA and ended the war.


ORB in Destiny was not very true to ideals. Aside from the fact that an 18 year old girl is ruling the country, ORB was afraid to be attacked again by EAF. the other "royal" families that were part of the assembly of ORB were very much EAF sympathizers ( the Seiran family to be exact). Cagalli wasn't much of a capable leader that time and so crumbled under the influence of the assembly and succumbed to EAF. not to mention that running away in the Archangel only made matters worse because the Seiran family took over for a short while .

But what was Fukuda's ideal Japan like? Was it like Orb?

I also read in the MechaTalk forums and TVTropes that the negative portrayal of the Atlantic Federation was based on George W. Bush's America, though these pages should be taken with a grain of salt, as well as IMO, that the AF/Blue Cosmos/LOGOS are the CE equivalent of Zeta Gundam's Titans and Wing's Romefeller Foundation.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by rakusukira

ORB in SEED was very much true to their ideals.

1.) ORB must not meddle in affairs of war
2.) ORB must not attack another nation
3.) ORB must not side with either faction

But also one to operate on a very powerful military apparatus, which in turn assists in grating greater independence. FATkuda is not alone in this. Idealistically, many wish for a powerful and independent Japan with significantly more freedom in foreign policy than what they have now. Sad to say, much of Japan's foreign policy is restricted by the United States, and many have criticized the Japanese government's weakness in, for example, handling the North Korean situation. Although the Japanese military is growing increasingly powerful in all aspects (Japan has Asia's best navy, for example), its freedom to act is nonetheless greatly limited by Japan's self-imposed article 9 and the presence of the United States.

One of the reasons why people voted for the Democratic Party of Japan during the last election and for the first time, decisively defeated the LDP as the ruling party of Japan was because amongst many of the party's promises, one of them was to have greater independence in foreign policy, while reshaping the existing partnership between Japan and the United States.

But who knew they were so fucking inept?

- Tak

[NoOneKnowS]

Originally Posted by rakusukira

1.) ORB must not meddle in affairs of war
2.) ORB must not attack another nation
3.) ORB must not side with either faction

1.) Didn't happened. the main "meddlers" were of ORB citizens (Hai, mai sisters the ruler)

2.) Correct, but given the actions of no.1, nope. (I am jesus yamato)

3.) Entirely true so what other choice than to make themselves a superpower nation. (I have every-one on my side, including a pink haired princess singer coordinator who goes into seed mode to totally pwn her opponents using only WORDSZZZZ.)

I agree though on most of your post.

The way I see it. CE has ended. Nevermore. A bunch of sequels or manga's out there or what not but a full blown series (even a freakin' movie) won't really make this gundam universe any better. Especially when the "main" players are still around and alive and gods and won't just freakin' DIE!!!!

[Tak]

Originally Posted by rakusukira

ORB in Destiny was not very true to ideals. Aside from the fact that an 18 year old girl is ruling the country, ORB was afraid to be attacked again by EAF. the other "royal" families that were part of the assembly of ORB were very much EAF sympathizers ( the Seiran family to be exact). Cagalli wasn't much of a capable leader that time

Originally Posted by NoOneKnowS

1.) Didn't happened. the main "meddlers" were of ORB citizens (Hai, mai sisters the ruler)

First and foremost, ORB is not a dictatorship (more like an oligarchy, EG. China). Sometimes, one is entrusted with the position of leadership not because he/she can lead, but because he/she can easily be manipulated by factions in the background. This unfortunately, happened to Cagali.

Originally Posted by NoOneKnowS

A bunch of sequels or manga's out there or what not but a full blown series (even a freakin' movie) won't really make this gundam universe any better.

Hate it or love it, it is the most popular Gundam series since a long time (significantly exceeding even 00), and also a gigantic money bag.

Originally Posted by NoOneKnowS

Especially when the "main" players are still around and alive and gods and won't just freakin' DIE!!!!

If anything bad happens to Lacus and Kira, I can almost guarantee you that FATKuda would end up being grilled on a skewer.

- Tak

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Tak

If anything bad happens to Lacus and Kira, I can almost guarantee you that FATKuda would end up being grilled on a skewer.

Fukuda was quoted as saying that Kira and Co. were "straying from the path of justice".

I'm all for turning Lacus heel, or at least turning her into a Relena/Haman hybrid, if the Final Plus/SE4 ending is true.

Also, speaking of the Final Plus/SE4 ending, Lacus was implied to be the new leader of ZAFT, but how much control does she have over Orb, or is Cagalli still in charge of Orb?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Fukuda was quoted as saying that Kira and Co. were "straying from the path of justice".

I do not remember FATkuda ever said anything to this effect, and I know I have been reading most of his interviews. Never mind that it doesn't make much sense.

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

I'm all for turning Lacus heel, or at least turning her into a Relena/Haman hybrid, if the Final Plus/SE4 ending is true.

Also, speaking of the Final Plus/SE4 ending, Lacus was implied to be the new leader of ZAFT, but how much control does she have over Orb, or is Cagalli still in charge of Orb?

There is a significant possibility that Lacus is the new head of PLANT/ZAFT, given how she is the only individual in the known universe with an organized military force.

How much control does Cagali has over Orb is questionable. If it wasn't for Lacus, she would not have been able to resume some degree of political control in her own country. Lets not kid ourselves, by the end of GSD, Lacus had in effect, almost complete command over Orb's armed forces in addition to her own.

- Tak

[larethian]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Fukuda was quoted as saying that Kira and Co. were "straying from the path of justice".

I'm all for turning Lacus heel, or at least turning her into a Relena/Haman hybrid, if the Final Plus/SE4 ending is true.

Also, speaking of the Final Plus/SE4 ending, Lacus was implied to be the new leader of ZAFT, but how much control does she have over Orb, or is Cagalli still in charge of Orb?

you mean PLANT right? well of course, that be implicitly extended to ZAFT in a way. and i thought it was blatantly shown in SE end that she heads the entire council.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Tak

I do not remember FATkuda ever said anything to this effect, and I know I have been reading most of his interviews. Never mind that it doesn't make much sense.

http://gundamseed.livejournal.com/630863.html
http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.p...t=9611&start=0

And a Google search: http://www.google.com/search?num=100...l183l183l0.1l1

Take these for what you will.

There is a significant possibility that Lacus is the new head of PLANT/ZAFT, given how she is the only individual in the known universe with an organized military force.

How much control does Cagali has over Orb is questionable. If it wasn't for Lacus, she would not have been able to resume some degree of political control in her own country. Lets not kid ourselves, by the end of GSD, Lacus had in effect, almost complete command over Orb's armed forces in addition to her own.

- Tak

I'll take what you said as "Lacus rules Space and, possibly Earth by proxy, if Cagalli is just a puppet ruler of Orb."

Can someone say, Lacus's Counterattack? Now is it a fair call to call Lacus a hybrid of Relena, Haman, and now, Treize?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

http://gundamseed.livejournal.com/630863.html

Take these for what you will.

Would love to read the original source materials. It seems, on one hand, he is criticizing Kira & co. for not creating a perfect utopia, on the other, he is criticizing Dully on trying to play God.

And of course Morosawa would reach the conclusion of Athrun & Cagali not being lovers. Pffffft.

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

I'll take what you said as "Lacus rules Space and, possibly Earth by proxy, if Cagalli is just a puppet ruler of Orb."

Can someone say, Lacus's Counterattack? Now is it a fair call to call Lacus a hybrid of Relena, Haman, and now, Treize?

I don't know how much power Lacus has over the remnants of Blue Cosmos or whatever anti-coordinator, and I am not sure if it is correct to designate Cagali as puppet. Although I am quite certain if Cagali did not have Lacus' assistance, she would not end up where she is at the end of GSD.

At this point, if they are going to milk GS... probably might be a good idea to start with Mars.

- Tak

[Shinn Kamiyra]

Originally Posted by Tak

I do not remember FATkuda ever said anything to this effect, and I know I have been reading most of his interviews. Never mind that it doesn't make much sense.

- Tak

Needless to say, everyone has their own interpretation of what "justice" is, though I can sort of understand what he's saying. Kira and co. in GSD, by all rights, were pretty much trying to solve everything by force.

Rather than at least attempting to try a more peaceful approach through most of their major battles, they simply went about forcing both the Earth Alliance and ZAFT to bow down to their wishes to stop fighting. Pretty counterproductive and not at all in the interests of "justice," if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Tak

And of course Morosawa would reach the conclusion of Athrun & Cagali not being lovers. Pffffft.

...Yeah, that's like saying that Kira and Flay didn't have sex. Oh no no, I know how we all saw Kira putting his pants back on during that one episode, but pay that no mind; it only looked like they had sex. Riiiiiiiight...

Originally Posted by Tak

At this point, if they are going to milk GS... probably might be a good idea to start with Mars.

- Tak

If they're going to milk GS anymore than they already have, then I suggest nixing the entire crew up until this point and starting over with a whole new one, perhaps some of the children and/or descendants of the original GS series.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Shinn Kamiyra

Rather than at least attempting to try a more peaceful approach through most of their major battles, they simply went about forcing both the Earth Alliance and ZAFT to bow down to their wishes to stop fighting. Pretty counterproductive and not at all in the interests of "justice," if you ask me.

Well, to be fair, Lacus and Kira were in retirement when some ZAFT fanatics decided to drop colony. To make matters worse, ZAFT then tried to assassin Lacus. If anyone was at fault here, its Dully & ZAFT for digging their own graves. Hell, even Earth was a little smarter than that, lnowing pretty damn well not to tickle a sleeping lion.

As for attempting to peacefully resolute this situation, I personally believe they tried. Especially when Lacus revealed herself as the real deal. But at that point, the time for reasoning was long over.

- Tak

[rakusukira]

Originally Posted by NoOneKnowS

1.) Didn't happened. the main "meddlers" were of ORB citizens (Hai, mai sisters the ruler)

2.) Correct, but given the actions of no.1, nope. (I am jesus yamato)

3.) Entirely true so what other choice than to make themselves a superpower nation. (I have every-one on my side, including a pink haired princess singer coordinator who goes into seed mode to totally pwn her opponents using only WORDSZZZZ.)

I agree though on most of your post.

The way I see it. CE has ended. Nevermore. A bunch of sequels or manga's out there or what not but a full blown series (even a freakin' movie) won't really make this gundam universe any better. Especially when the "main" players are still around and alive and gods and won't just freakin' DIE!!!!

since ORB has been "disturbed" at that point, they have to retaliate.. and so ended up meddling in the affairs of the world. no country can NEVER not meddle with the world, i think.ORB was just trying to preserve the peaceful environment they had and could not make a stand.

Originally Posted by Tak

Well, to be fair, Lacus and Kira were in retirement when some ZAFT fanatics decided to drop colony. To make matters worse, ZAFT then tried to assassin Lacus. If anyone was at fault here, its Dully & ZAFT for digging their own graves. Hell, even Earth was a little smarter than that, lnowing pretty damn well not to tickle a sleeping lion.

As for attempting to peacefully resolute this situation, I personally believe they tried. Especially when Lacus revealed herself as the real deal. But at that point, the time for reasoning was long over.

- Tak

THIS. Dully was so freakin dumb to have Lacus assassinated, he knew freakin well that Kira was with her (or not). They could have made the story interesting if Dully was able to manipulate Kira and Lacus to join ZAFT and thus reversing EVERYTHING that happened in SEED. but no, they just hired a Lacus imposter to "excite" the whole storyline and add a certain Shinn Asuka to make it more "interesting" . Shinn nor Rey was enough of a rival to both Athrun and Kira. EVERYTHING was a mismatch.

[Washu-Chan]

Didn't Fukuda say that one of Destiny's original intentions was to make it the Zeta Gundam to SEED's Mobile Suit Gundam?

He didn't realize that he already riffed on Zeta in the second half of SEED.

[Shinn Kamiyra]

Originally Posted by Tak

Well, to be fair, Lacus and Kira were in retirement when some ZAFT fanatics decided to drop colony. To make matters worse, ZAFT then tried to assassin Lacus. If anyone was at fault here, its Dully & ZAFT for digging their own graves. Hell, even Earth was a little smarter than that, lnowing pretty damn well not to tickle a sleeping lion.

As for attempting to peacefully resolute this situation, I personally believe they tried. Especially when Lacus revealed herself as the real deal. But at that point, the time for reasoning was long over.

- Tak

I believe you're right in that Dullindal and ZAFT brought what happened to them upon themselves, however I would say that in particular is reflective of forcing the story in the direction that they wanted it to be told. Looking at the character of Dullindal as a whole, I don't believe it would've been surprising at all if he had just tried to talk to Kira and co. about what he was planning and simply asking them to step out of the way or even as rakusukira said, convincing them to join ZAFT. That might've been far more interesting to watch, but then again that's a whole other can of worms.

So many things in GSD seem to have been justified and forced so as to have the story progress in the way they wanted it to be told.

For example, Lacus having spoken up when she did, and as you said, when the time for reasoning was long since past. At this point it seems all that that accomplished was to tarnish Dullindal's credibility and garner the people to fight against him. If it were truly in Kira and co.'s interest to end the fighting, they should've done that the moment they heard about Meer.